Indeed. What’s barmy for a population is sensible for individuals. And the lesson is: if you’re going to ‘panic’ make sure you beat everyone else to it.
Even more so when I didn't vote for it.
There should be two queues at the filling stations. Remain and Leave. Leave get a reduced selection of pumps. Remain get a greater selection. Both sides will have got what they voted for. Job jobbed.
The Leave queue get an added bonus, though, they get a scratchcard with a racist joke on it, to keep them amused as they wait. There's ten to collect and if you get all ten you get a VHS of 'Til Death Us Do Part'.
Labelling it as entirely ‘panic buying’ is a misunderstanding. Sensible people now understand the pattern, and take steps to make sure they have what they need.
Exactly. The only true panic buying that's been on show are the folks with jerry cans or empty plastic water bottles, which is a small minority. Topping your car up to a full tank when there is news of potential shortages is just a completely rational reaction.
Although I have to say it's quite an eye-opener that a relatively subtle shift in behaviour can cause such significant issues.
Although I have to say it’s quite an eye-opener that a relatively subtle shift in behaviour can cause such significant issues.
That's JIT supply chains for you. It is optimised for maximum choice and convenience when applied to retail rather than intra-process in manufacturing.
Throw a racist/xenophobic tantrum that ****s part of the process up then the whole thing falls over. The ultimate end point is less choice and convenience or increased prices (or both). But Project Fear and all that...
<pedant>
Fusion powers the time circuits and the flux capacitor. But the internal combustion engine runs on ordinary gasoline, it always has. There's not going to be a gas station around here until sometime in the next century. Without gasoline, we can't get the DeLorean up to 88 miles per hour.
</pedant>
God I love those movies far too much.
How many EU tanker drivers left? Does anyone even know?
Although I have to say it’s quite an eye-opener that a relatively subtle shift in behaviour can cause such significant issues.
I think its speaks to the wider issue of JIT supply lines that have been exposed by the pandemic & brexit
'efficiencies' have been made to the extent that there is basically no slack in our supply chains, see also horrenndous working conditions and pay for many, including truckers
‘efficiencies’ have been made to the extent that there is basically no slack in our supply chains, see also horrenndous working conditions and pay for many, including truckers
Yup. JIT was originally intra-process manufacturing. But it was bastardised into retail supply chains to maximise choice and availability. Brexit will continue to pull cards out of the house of cards each time it is rebuilt. If it ever is. Or we could decide to grow up.
🤷♂️
Public transport would have to be unbelievably good to even start to compete with personal transport.
Or personal transport would need to become prohibitively expensive, restricted in access and inconvenient to park etc.
Stuck on the a413 as queue for petrol station is blocking the road in both directions
Or we could decide to grow up.
How do you expect that to work?
Earlier today a logistics specialist referred to Just in Case; haven't heard that in the context of supply chains for some time.
Coming next...Just too Late.
How do you expect that to work?
Renegotiate a softer Brexit. Apply to rejoin the EU.
Just two of the myriad possibilities that exist for 'not be childish'.
Pretty much anything is better than the shitshow we are currently mired in.
**** that 'will of the people' nonsense. It was tried. It didn't work. Time to sort something that does.
Just in Case
A large part of which is stockpiling. Which doesn't work with perishables, plus warehousing would need to be expanded to house it all.
It's an expensive way out of a self-created hole...
As I asked before, to all these people blaming Brexit, how many EU tanker drivers left exactly?
i_scoff_cake
Free Member
As I asked before, to all these people blaming Brexit, how many EU tanker drivers left exactly?
I seem to remember seeing a figure of 25k being mentioned, I could be wrong on that though.
Edit: That was likely in reference to all HGV drivers, not just tanker drivers.
i_scoff_cake
Free MemberAs I asked before, to all these people blaming Brexit, how many EU tanker drivers left exactly?
The RHA says 20000 drivers total. Driver Require estimates 12-15000. Of course that's not tanker drivers but that's not the point- not all drivers are tanker drivers but all tanker drivers are drivers, so even if not a single one of those 12-20000 was a tanker driver, of course tanker drivers would be among those filling the gaps left.
And of course it's not all about EU drivers leaving. Brexit has put more stress on the entire supply chain, meaning we need more drivers to do the same job. You didn't have to be an EU driver resident in the UK, to be driving in the UK, and that's also reduced.
20,000 hgv drivers according to the industry.
Tanker drivers within that? Don't know but it will probably be significant.
https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19606111.truckers-reveal-reasons-behind-hgv-driver-shortage/
Mefty still denying reality again....
Sheesh!
Of course that’s not tanker drivers but that’s not the point- not all drivers are tanker drivers but all tanker drivers are drivers, so even if not a single one of those 12-20000 was a tanker driver, of course tanker drivers would be among those filling the gaps left.
As you say yourself, not all HGV drivers are tanker drivers so we shouldn't jump to a conclusion based on some inadequate statistics especially with the requirements for driving tankers being significant which doesn't lend itself well to transient and casual EU labour.
Speaking to people in the business myself it looks more likely that the IR35 changes were a bigger impact.
Brexit has been a ‘factor’ in fuel crisis, Shapps admits
Transport secretary Grant Shapps has admitted that Brexit has been a “factor” behind the fuel crisis – despite his previous claims the UK’s exit from the EU had helped the country adjust to supply chain problems.Mr Shapps insisted only last week that cynics were “wrong” to blame Brexit for the drastic shortage of heavy goods vehicle (HGV) drivers causing empty supermarket shelves and the closure of petrol stations.
Anyone who believes a word Johnson and his rabble say really does need their head read.
I can only assume it is some kind of misplaced pride that makes people need to deny what is going on. It is fine. All you have to do is admit your error(s), say you are sorry, mean it, and don't do it again. Not onerous, but then nor is wearing a mask and enough Brexity types got the vapours about that too.
So… I just seen that the government has declared that it is returning to normal.
However I have just nipped out to pick daughter up (some buses were cancelled, leaving others overcrowded) and I thought I would see if I could get some fuel as it was near normal.
Out of five petrol stations I passed. 3 were empty. 1 only had petrol (I need diesel) and 1 had gridlocked half the town as people had seen that there was a tanker their and had decided to park on both sides of the main drag to get in (facepalm)
Yup. Nearly normal (still on fumes)
Speaking to people in the business myself it looks more likely that the IR35 changes were a bigger impact.
Well, that can be adjusted for simply by paying more. So, now we’re paying more, the drivers will magically reappear. What, they won’t? Why not? Because some drivers have retired from a rapidly ageing workforce? Because younger experienced drivers are working elsewhere? What do you mean? Holland, Germany… nah, you’re pulling my leg.
the requirements for driving tankers being significant which doesn’t lend itself well to transient and casual EU labour.
Why do you think that?
The tanker drivers I speak to have all said manning is down since we left and the Euros went home.
Looking good, Britain. Looking good. No wonder the rest of the world are falling over themselves to come and do our dirty jobs for us...
That’s the old normal you’re thinking of, this is the new normal
So… I just seen that the government has declared that it is returning to normal.
It was all the media's doing apparrently, the stirrers. So it follows that a simple declaration in the media that things are all hunky dory will put things right again.
Out of five petrol stations I passed. 3 were empty. 1 only had petrol (I need diesel) and 1 had gridlocked half the town as people had seen that there was a tanker their and had decided to park on both sides of the main drag to get in
Can I ask in what part of Britain this is? I've just been out and filled the tank on my van (as I always do) at the 1st petrol station I came to, no queues at all. A couple of lads from work went out last night and did the same, no queues, all pumps working and no one filling jerry cans, plastic bottles or anything other than their cars. North East England here and, whilst I haven't been driving much over the weekend I haven't seen a queue at a petrol station so far. I haven't read much of this thread but from 3 or 4 stations in the South East running out last week there's been little else on TV and in newspapers for days now, completely blown out of proportion by sensationalist reporting in the media, combined with the social media element (people straight on Facebook when they see a tanker delivering fuel) has caused this problem to be far worse than it needed to be.
Brexit, covid, driver pay and conditions are all part of a problem which definitely needs addressing and if anyone seriously thinks temporary visas for EU drivers will sort this out they need a reality check
Our local supermarket had no queues in evidence beyond the normal 2-3 cars deep you get at 5.30 usually, then the other supermarket we passed also had no visible queue. But yesterday and the day before it was bonkers.
Can I ask in what part of Britain this is? I’ve just been out and filled the tank on my van (as I always do) at the 1st petrol station I came to, no queues at all.
Fine here too. I didn't get any today because I don't need it, but the ones in Galashiels, Selkirk and Peebles are fine. Edinburgh was fine when I was there on Saturday.
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media? Same as how snow is only a problem if they get any
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media?
No fuel in Aviemore, Newtonmore or Carrbridge. Possibly all on its way south in the fuel tanks of weegies who were up here for the weekend.
I think I have finally found a 'brexit bonus'. I manged to do a 110 mile round trip to a clients office today with a starting range of 105 miles, averaged 63 mpg (audi a6 diesel) and didn't touch the brakes round the sections of m25 and m1 I traveled on - unheard of.
But driving at 56 mph and slip streaming the lorries was dull - i can see why no wants to be lorry driver.
tried 4 petrol stations on the way home - 3 no fuel, one with supervisors and massive congestion.
andrewh
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media? Same as how snow is only a problem if they get any
No unfortunately it isn't, something like 2/3s of the stations across the country had run out a day or two ago.
Can I ask in what part of Britain this is?
Buckinghamshire.
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media?
Afraid not.
I’d love it if it was just one of those things like the daily express declaring SNOWMAGEDDON after there’s been a light dusting in Hackney and they report it likes theres 8 foot snowdrifts, as the capital brings to a halt and we all laugh at them.
But unfortunately not. It’s very real here in the north west, where men are men, pies live in fear and women from Burnley gargle unleaded
I’m one of the lucky ones who can work/doss from home and don’t need to be anywhere, but it’s having a serious impact on people who have proper jobs which require having fuel in your car/van and the need to be somewhere else other than sat at home in your pants
So a bloke at work who moon lights as a HGV driver at weekends (only one day though) summed it up this way.
You do you job wrong at a desk you'll probably get told off do it again might get a warning.
I stop for emergency wee and someone get in the back of the truck I get a fine if I'm lucky.
I got to a pick up and the customer has over loaded the trailer I get fined.
Why do a job that's long hours and if something goes wrong beyond my control I get fined when I can get the same money sat at a desk?
He works weekends for some stupid negotiated rate.
Binners is right the North West has been really bad/stupid. Even the posh bits of the Wirral!!
Much of South Wales also according to friends.
Think its improving though as 1 local station put out on FB all tanks full and no wait for fuel at the pumps
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media?
I passed 2 garages (one in Roade and one by Wendover) where the queues were blocking the road in both directions on the way from Northampton to Amersham. The rest had no fuel. So East Midlands and South East at least. I'm lucky that I started the week with a 3/4 full tank.
Still nutty all around me. I live in Nottingham. Got the tram in to the city centre this morning after praying the car would get to the park and ride on fumes, as we were picking up some heavier items from the city I had to bring the car at least to the tram stop. Tesco petrol station opposite the tram park and ride was closed, as were other Tesco ones in Bulwell and Bestwood. Texaco near me was rammed at 6am this morning as I stupidly wasted precious fumes to check it out. Morrisons in Bulwell also rammed when we went past on the tram on the way in and also on the way home. Asda in Hyson Green also the same (just outside of the city centre). I've been told by child minder that local Tesco had a delivery late afternoon but I can't afford to take the risk until I know I can get some in the tank for definite so will ride down there tomorrow to see if they still have diesel and not rammed.
I passed 3 garages in Bristol today - 2 totally empty of any fuel at all. The other only had ‘supreme diesel’ left. Asda had fuel last night but 10 car deep queues per set of pumps. Hoping there maybe some fuel available on Thursday - even if just a tenner’s worth to do a bit of local running round on!
Covered on Germany's national news this evening including all the fisticuffs.
Brilliant.
So unsurprisingly its probably more to do with population density than anything else.
more likely that the IR35 changes
Yep making a (hard unrewarding) job pay less is more likely to make it non-viable but its death by a few papercuts...Brexits just chucked a bit of petrol on it for a laugh by removing more workers from the pool.
Still when it was a few visas or can IR35 what was the solution ?
What's the current situation, army on standby to shoot petrol heads or old people or visa holders who haven't gone home at Christmas or something.
Sat here with the popcorn waiting to see the next giggle 🙂
