[Closed] Personal injury small claim - where to take it/general advice?

I see where you are coming from, but I don't think contacting NWNF lawyers will be either fruitful or stress-free for you and your other half. TBH I'd be surprised if any of them took it on, and they'll probably just sell your contact details to 400 other scumbags.

Are you sure you've exhausted all other avenues? Did you write to just the stores or to the management company of the retail park? Threatening to engage vulture lawyers might be a better bet than actually doing it.

@drac, only because I know it would make them actually do it. This is Bradford, nobody does anything unless forced. 10 weeks have elapsed and they haven't bothered to fix them, or even put a sign up.

I probably also should have mentioned that she's been unable to take part in her main hobby (horse riding) for those ten weeks. The only reason it hasn't wasted 10*20 quid horse rental if because it just happens she was between horses at the minute (she's competed at Eventing at a national level, so she's far from a wuss/scared)

Ah so this bit.

With the pain and inconvenience, and having seen that the steps are in the same state, we're thinking of asking for some compensation; both for the unnecessary pain/inconvenience and to make them fix the steps!

Is not about the cash either?

Why would it make them do it?

What if the steps have been inspected and deemed safe?

If you are so sure would you be prepared to pay the landowner etc costs in defending your proposed action?

Sometimes we have to blame our own clumisness. Its not always blame something around us. My 5yr old trips over almost every raised or cracked paving slab.

[img] [/img]
(I hope she recovers fully from the emotional distress of not being able to use stairs but ffs don't take her biking)

@cynic-al, I see where you're coming from, and no I'm not new 🙂

The council line is sounding useful yes. In the 10 weeks we've spoken to lots of people about it (unavoidable with your arm in a sling etc), and literally everyone had told us to claim.

No one has mentioned going through the council before, so we didn't think about it.

Had it occurred to you that the steps might have recently degraded? Perhaps the top slab has just sunk below the concrete. Perhaps lots of people have tripped on them (seeing as they explicitly breech the very short HSE guidelines, it seems quite possible).

@drac, only slightly. As stated, a bottle if wine and some money for the food bank (kinda what work she's involved with) would be plenty.

There's a lot of projection going on...

@rorschach, she's learning fast, actually.

and literally everyone had told us to claim

As stated, a bottle if wine and some money for the food bank (kinda what work she's involved with) would be plenty.

Sorry I'm not buying into that even with the food bank line. I really can't see why you'd go through a compensation lawyer for unnecessary pain and inconvenience for a bottle of wine and a donation to charidy.

Just raise the bar with the council and higher management as already mentioned.

and literally everyone had told us to claim

Did you show 'everyone' that photo or just tell your horror story? If everyone you know saw that photo and came to that conclusion and literally no one on this thread who has seen the photo to date is on your side, does that not say something about who you mingle with?

I don't know what that "H" means.

@drac: well you probably know more about it than us. I thought it was supposed to be really easy. If it takes ages then we probably won't want to do it, which is kinda the point of the thread.

The statement about the foodbank is the way we roll, its true. Anyway, you can disregard and just go with £25 and the steps fixed.

I can't add much more than 😯

Ok.

Maybe your thread title should have been "How do we encourage a retailer to fix these steps?"

Then discussed the injury and how it supposedly occurred that you'd asked they be looked at but weren't happy with the outcome. Then asked what is the best way of addressing this.

See no need to mention injury lawyers, compensation for pain and inconvenience or indeed food banks.

Maybe, but as I have explained in detail I don't see the issue.

Conclusion: people like leaping to conclusions.

From your OP

With the pain and inconvenience, and having seen that the steps are in the same state, we're thinking of asking for some compensation

and

There's loads of No-Win-No-Fee types around, but won't they just win and take the awarded money?

Post-flaming you now change that to food bank and/or wine...

Look, just contact a no-win solicitor. The claim will be defended, you'll have cost the taxpayer or landowner money but the stairs will be the same.

As I said, a couple of years ago someone posted up that they tripped on the way into the University carpark over 'uneven surface'. I responded and was flamed. In the same topic the OP admitted to having brought a previous claim again said-Uni. He couldn't grasp that not all carparks are billiard-table smooth....

Did she trip on the litter at the top of the steps too? Danger everywhere!

Actually, scrub that, we don't [i]want[/i] any money, just the steps fixed.

@hora, yes that what I typed, but you have no idea how much we had in mind, so I posted later with some info. WRT the charity, she works for a charity (see previous posts) and is tasked with raising money for them. As were just about to leave, any money that we were imagining might come from it (literally no idea how much, again, hence the post) would be given to the charity as a leaving gift/ fundraising contribution).

Why is it harder to believe what I am telling you are our motives than what you assume you know about us?

The point was to ask about it, the only reason I am still posting, despite the unpleasant reaction, is because people are making assumptions and also because the steps are dangerous, precisely because they're man made and still uneven. WRT Roman/historic worn steps - they're clearly worn so you take extra care. These aren't.

And the escalator point- look at the top of an escalator, there are small ramps at the top, precisely to avoid this issue.

Look, I honestly don't mind advice, but projection and assumptions are not helpful.

money for the food bank (kinda what work she's involved with) would be plenty.

Be honest. She'd been bin-diving at the back of Tesco and was staggering back with an armful of out-of-date noodles...

Are the steps in a dangerous state of repair?

Conclusion: people like leaping [s]to conclusions.[/s] down steps.

Additionally, "common sense" is bullshit, there is no such thing, as demonstrated...
...here.

because the steps are dangerous

Its probably easier for the OP to try and get the steps "fixed" than tell his OH that she's a clumsy cow?

WRT Roman/historic worn steps - they're clearly worn so you take extra care. These aren't.

@johndoh - I see what you're saying. We don't know if anyone else has been injured on them, and even if they had how many of them told the store about it.

My point about the steps being dangerous is based on the fact that she fell because:

The top step is half a brick higher, AND has a lip just where you are then forced to put your foot because it's higher, AND then the car park is lower so if you fall you make a similar mistake in your reaction like the top step and fall awkwardly.

So we did nothing because Tesco said they'd fix it. But they haven't. Now she's still in pain, the steps haven't been fixed and in the preceding 10 weeks+ literally every person has told us to sue them. In light of it not being fixed, we were thinking there might be a way to force them to fix it.

I honestly don't mind having the piss taken a bit, it's normal, but people saying it's not dangerous are at odds with the HSE website:

""Research has shown that the physical dimensions of stairs play a significant role in stair accidents.

Consistency of stair dimensions is very important.[b] Even small differences in the rise or going between adjacent steps can cause someone to misstep which can lead to a fall[/b]."
[url= http://www.hse.gov.uk/SLIPS/step/general/advanced/8E7F777B-3B84-49FE-A3D6-D0324E25A801/HSLCourseTemplate/28531/slidetype1_204422.htm ]
HSE Website[/url], emphasis mine.

So I started the thread. Got some advice, and a lot of not-advice.

and a lot of not-advice.

You got a lot of what you would like to consider non advice because it does not meet with your expectations. Common consensus from the vast majority who have seen that photo is that those steps are perfectly safely navigable irrespective of any HSE directive. I'd hazard a guess you have done so yourself loads of times without giving them a second thought. As such you are wasting your time.

@sharkbait - she was taking the normal care. As i said our flat is 5*10 steps up, we don't use the lift. Neither she nor I falls on them, but then they're even.

@bigyinn - Again with the projections and abuse. She and I sat down last night and wrote this together. She's reading the thread, that wasn't nice was it?

The facts are these:

She fell, she's hurt.

She's spend weeks inconvenienced and delayed at work, assigned light duties, turned down leave/sick pay the doctor offered and now she and I want the steps fixed as we believe [backed up the HSE] that uneven steps are dangerous and other people might get hurt likewise.

Tesco promised to fix the steps, they haven't. We are considering whether it would be right and how to go about forcing them to be fixed, and IF there was any small compensation [again, this would be legally handled so only awarded IF deemed necessary] we would want to use it for a good cause.

That's it. Can you stick to the subject now?

This is beginning to worry me, as a designer

It's worrying me; as a normal human being.

I'd hazard a guess you have done so yourself loads of times without giving them a second thought

The steps are the alternative to walking down a grassy bank between the car parks, which is what I have done in the past, but isn't safe if the grass is wet. The other alternative is the car ramp, but there's cars driving on it.

The "no-advice" relates to the abuse, not the advice, which is what we asked for.

My point about the steps being dangerous is based on the fact that she fell because: blah blah blah

This...

""Research has shown that the physical dimensions of stairs play a significant role in stair accidents.

Consistency of stair dimensions is very important. Even small differences in the rise or going between adjacent steps can cause someone to misstep which can lead to a fall."

...is a very long way from "uneven steps are dangerous and must always be fixed"

If you really really want the steps fixed then the HSE are the best route for you to go down, just don't expect it to be a quick process. Who knows Tesco might have far more dangerous steps in other parts of the country that need fixing first.

As this document is not retrospective many existing buildings may not conform to current regulations. To reduce the risk of accidents you should attempt to bring older stairs up to current standards, when the opportunity presents itself.

Quoting specific sections of the HSE website to justify your greedy intent isn't the way to go.

On a serious note tho if you just want the steps fixed and genuinely don't want any money (despite your original money grabbing op) I would do the following.

Check with the local authority / land registry who definitely owns the steps it may not be who your think it is despite how it looks. If it is tescos (or another business) get all the relevant details about the store, the managers name who it was reported to date times weather conditions when the accident happens. etc and write to head office, if it's the local authority contact them and ask who deals with h&s then write to them as above as they will have a team who deals with it. Include in the letter any information from the doctor about the damage sustained (you did go to the doctor right) photos from the day proving weather conditions witness reports etc. If after all of that some one qualified in h&s tells you to do one, go and follow your blood sucking friends advice and go to a nwnf lawyer but be prepared to go to hell as that's where you're going to end up based on just that one photo.

The odd thing is if I lived closer I would come and assess these steps for free as I strongly believe it's this type of claim culture that is ruining h&s.

OP - I now know where those steps are 🙂

I have walked up them, my wife has walked up them, and even my 4 yr old walked up them, none of us died horribly (phew)

I am now in a dilemma. Do I

A, go back and fall horribly on them and claim lots of £££

B, go back and tape them off to protect the innocent public from these evil steps?

C, start a skills course business for people wanting increase their skills walking up and down steps?

C, start a skills course business for people wanting increase there skills walking up and down steps?

😀

as I didn't like the look of them

I've heard it all now. A fit young chap and they look a bit too iffy for you? Honestly? These are the same steps as in your photo? Your bike rides must be thrilling!

The steps are the alternative to walking down a grassy bank between the car parks, which is what I have done in the past, but isn't safe if the grass is wet. The other alternative is the car ramp, but there's cars driving on it.

If this is how you approach life you'd probably be better off staying in bed. My advice would be to do your grocery shopping online.

MissStripes tripped on a set of uneven steps between the car park of two shops [Tesco and PC World]

From reading your posts, it appears you've complained to Tesco. Any reason why you chose them and not PC World?
In reality you've likely complained to the wrong people anyway. This sounds like a 'retail park' and as such is likely to be owned by one of the big corporate landowners (it's normally one of the big investment companies). The shops there will just be tenants. The local Tesco store will no doubt have to log this and refer to somewhere else, possibly HQ who would then more than likely raise the issue formally with the landowner. The landowner would presumably then engage someone to survey and have a look at any history of accidents. Hell, they may proactively do routine inspections. Anyway, if the reporting and inspection has been done. The Landowner would then need to engage someone to do the work, there will be a bunch of H&S stuff to cover (method statements, risk assessments, etc.) and in the corporate world, 10 weeks really isn't that long.

I'm really anti the no win no fee parasites. The steps don't really look that bad to me. I'd suggest if you really want to follow this up, find out who owns the land and ask them.

The consensus of the opinions on here is that your claim (which you clearly came on here asking advice about) is deemed frivolous to the majority of us. This seems not to be what you wanted to hear. Either do what you were going to do anyway or heed the opinions you've received. Don't have a pop at everyone who disagrees with you - that never ends well!

How do you know that the management company have not already inspected the steps and found them to be perfectly alright - which is why nothing has been done?

Look, sheesh, I don't mind admitting I'm wrong about something [everybody learns, right], and also I don't mind the answer being "No it's not worth it" or "there's better ways"*.

What I do mind is people taking the piss. She's hurt and we're concerned for other people as well.

@gonfishin - leaving out the "always", which won't help, in this case we are thinking it might be necessary to fix them, yes. A quick google, finds the HSE advice, but also shows this up:

Liability for Slip and Fall Accidents:

To be legally responsible for the injuries you suffered from slipping or tripping and falling on someone else's property, one of the following must be true:

-The owner of the premises or an employee caused the spill, worn or torn spot, or other slippery or dangerous surface or item, to be underfoot.

-The owner of the premises or an employee knew of the dangerous surface but did nothing about it.

-The owner of the premises or an employee should have known of the dangerous surface because a "reasonable" person taking care of the property would have discovered and removed or repaired it."

The last two seem to apply here.

nolo goes on to say:

"Slippery Surfaces

A common hidden stair danger is worn-down carpet or wood that makes the "run" part of a stair -- the part your foot lands on -- dangerous. Often a slightly worn stair or carpet is more perilous than obviously worn stairs because people are not likely to notice the damage"

and

"Uneven Stair Height or Depth

Building codes also prescribe the maximum variance from one step to another -- that is, the differences permitted in the height or depth of any one step from another.

The variance standard is important because when we go up or down stairs, our brains remember how far the last step was and automatically tell our legs to move the same distance the next time. If the leg moves the same distance but the step isn't in the same place -- even if the difference is only slight -- we may lose our balance and fall."

In light of all this we asked the question.

I will say again, we're not trying to make money, or we'd have done it straightaway. We're just worried that it's not going to get fixed and is dangerous.

I think I'm going to have to stop replying at this point, I have a dissertation to write! I am interested to hear from people that have something to say that is based on facts/experience.

Thanks, anyway, kinda....

*which may be the case - The Council, perhaps.

gofasterstripes - Member
I have avoided them myself in the past as I didn't like the look of them

I struggle to believe this! I bet you took a short cut down the bank to save time.

To be legally responsible for the injuries you suffered from slipping or tripping and falling on someone else's property, one of the following must be true:

-The owner of the premises or an employee caused the spill, worn or torn spot, or other slippery or dangerous surface or item, to be underfoot.

-The owner of the premises or an employee knew of the dangerous surface but did nothing about it.

-The owner of the premises or an employee should have known of the dangerous surface because a "reasonable" person taking care of the property would have discovered and removed or repaired it."

The last two seem to apply here.

Well I'll have to disagree because I don't think that they are dangerous, they're not perfect by any means but that alone doesn't make them dangerous. Then again what do I know it's not like I work in a heavily regulated industry that deals with significant major accident hazards...

That being said there should probably be a handrail.

[img] [/img]

Sorted

26 you say?

Obvious really, don't try again until she's 27 1/2.

I'll get my coat.

A common hidden stair danger is worn-down carpet or wood that makes the "run" part of a stair -- the part your foot lands on -- dangerous. Often a slightly worn stair or carpet is more perilous than obviously worn stairs because people are not likely to notice the damage"

Unless Tesco routinely carpet the steps into their car park I can't see how this applies.