[Closed] Papal visit of Pope on Thursday, anyone going.............to protest

Does the rhythm method differ from the ending of a typical porn film? 😉

[i]Do we want to solve the problems or not? [/i]

Why not do both at the same time?

.

Do we want to solve the problems or not? [i]

Why not do both at the same time?

Fine, but the first step is to find the real culprit rather than focussing on the scapegoat

CharlieMungus - Member

Do we want to solve the problems or not? [i]

Why not do both at the same time?

Fine, but the first step is to find the real culprit rather than focussing on the scapegoat

The virus? Probably need some sort stem-cell research for that...

ah bugger, we are not allowed to do that either, apparently

Mr mumgus

so there is some other, more dominant causal factor.

He's just driven past my office.

Street was pretty quiet!

The virus? Probably need some sort stem-cell research for that...

ah bugger, we are not allowed to do that either, apparently

Yeah, much easier to dismiss rather than engage isn't it. Or is that really the only other causal factor you can think of for the spread of HIV/AIDS? Even if you really concentrate?

Watching the drive through in Edinburgh on BBC1.

Where do they find these morons to cheer and offer banalities to camera? One of the comments was "he's a great communicator" WTF he's in an armour plated cage.

On the plus side, there don't appear to be many people lining the streets.

CharlieMungus - Member

The virus? Probably need some sort stem-cell research for that...

ah bugger, we are not allowed to do that either, apparently

Yeah, much easier to dismiss rather than engage isn't it. Or is that really the only other causal factor you can think of for the spread of HIV/AIDS? Even if you really concentrate?

I was blatantly being flippant. Education and moving the communities out of poverty are the big thing, but perhaps a potential immunisation process would also be beneficial.

To be honest, i have no idea what you are trying to argue 🙂

he's just gone by my flat. the guy jogging beside him vocally giving the wonker sign is defo gonna be arrested soon

edit: one of the two fellas sitting with the pope was laughing, smiling, pointing and waving at him

I'm trying to argue, that if we keep on blaming the Pope, then we neglect to address the problem. If by some 'miracle' the church reversed its teaching on condoms we would see little change in the spread of HIV AIDS. The church is not causing the problem, we need to identify what is and address that.

He's just driven past my office.

Street was pretty quiet!

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/02/20757/53570

he's just gone by my flat. the guy jogging beside him vocally giving the wonker sign is defo gonna be arrested soon

I like that you can run alongisde the Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God calling him a w@nker, yet you have to be careful about actually using the word in a cycling forum

In my mind it is quite simple. The Pope:

Refutes the theory of evolution
Refuses to allow women into the priesthood (wonder what he makes of the Queen!)
Is against abortion for rape victims
Is against contraception even for disease prevention
Is infallible (!?!?!???!?!)

You can get all tied up for days making sophisticated arguments back and forth on how many lives the church has saved or ended but anyone who considers this man (or his church) to be a moral authority is a f*cking idiot.

CharlieMungus - Member

I'm trying to argue, that if we keep on blaming the Pope, then we neglect to address the problem. If by some 'miracle' the church reversed its teaching on condoms we would see little change in the spread of HIV AIDS. The church is not causing the problem, we need to identify what is and address that.

I don't think we would see 'little change', but yes i basically agree

Torminalis - Member

In my mind it is quite simple. The Pope:

Refutes the theory of evolution
Refuses to allow women into the priesthood (wonder what he makes of the Queen!)
Is against abortion for rape victims
Is against contraception even for disease prevention
Is infallible (!?!?!???!?!)

You can get all tied up for days making sophisticated arguments back and forth on how many lives the church has saved or ended but anyone who considers this man (or his church) to be a moral authority is a f*cking idiot.

You could say that was religion in general 😉

[img] [/img]

The Pope visiting his usual haunts 😉

[img] [/img]

Torminalis - Member
In my mind it is quite simple. The Pope:

Refutes the theory of evolution
Refuses to allow women into the priesthood (wonder what he makes of the Queen!)
Is against abortion for rape victims
Is against contraception even for disease prevention
Is infallible (!?!?!???!?!)

You can get all tied up for days making sophisticated arguments back and forth on how many lives the church has saved or ended but anyone who considers this man (or his church) to be a moral authority is a f*cking idiot.

You forgot to mention that he considers gay people to be morally disordered and thinks they should burn in hell.

Aside from that, you hit the nail square on the head 🙂

Popemobile looks like a mobile toilet.

The pope rides a Berlingo?

I spent a few hours in that strippers on my stag doo.... A particularly lovely show involving two Eastern Exoctic ladies, his popeness would be proud.

Fueled - Member

You forgot to mention that he considers gay people to be morally disordered and thinks they should burn in hell.

I read the above as

You forgot to mention that he considers gay people to be morally disordered and thinks they should bu[b]m[/b] in hell 🙂

Was there any need for that, Clubber?

has this been done yet?

yes it has ---removed

You forgot to mention that he considers gay people to be morally disordered and thinks they should burn in hell.

with the obvious exception of the gay cardinal he is here to beatify.

and with regard to infallibility? This is only when it is invoked, as it has been only once, ever. And that was about the assumption of Mary, which was already a strong belief in the church, in fact it was a rare occurrence of the church acting in accordance with the wishes of its people, rather than the converse.

People, please this stuff is easily knowable.

with the obvious exception of the gay cardinal he is here to beatify.

Except the Vatican got quite cross with the claims that he was gay?

sort of, but that is more for show. If they really had any qualms about it they wouldn't do it would they?

People, please this stuff is easily knowable

if you use a phrase like that you should check the facts in your post.

CharlieMungus - Member

"I think thats enough to prove my point don't you?"

Not really,

What? Did you actually read the quotes? Referring to Africa as well and you think millions of cases of AIDS in latin america is not important?

Get real. You are so blind to the truth here.

No one with any sense can doubt that catholic teachings on condoms has been responsible for millions of deaths. UN experts on Aids / HIV have publicly stated this.

CharlieMungus - Member

I see your point, are you then suggesting that the pope/CC has influence on the governments of predominantly non catholic countries in Sub-saharan Africa?

Yes they do - see the quotes from various African catholic bishops

Why are we not seeing epidemics in South America?

We are - millions infected and the rate of infection rising rapidly

1) I see the quotes from individual bishops, I also see lots of bishops who didn't say these things. I didn't see any evidence of lots of people accepting what these (isolated) individual say

2) The rates in South America are small comapared to the epidemics some African countries.
In fact the overall rate for South America, is less than the rate for switzerland
http://www.avert.org/

Time for you to show some data TJ.

What? Did you actually read the quotes?

did you actually read the data?

Charlie - clearly nothing will convince you.

millions infected in south america doesn't count because its smaller than the african epidemics?

Quotes from people involved in healthcare in africa stating that catholic pressure has made it harder to provide condoms don't count?

In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre s[b]ays he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition[/b]. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids."

get real.

I have provided lots of data and lots of quotes and you simply turn a blind eye. You continue to attempt to defend the indefensible.

Charlie - clearly nothing will convince you.

Data will

millions infected in south america doesn't count because its smaller than the african epidemics?

No, because as a percentage of population, it is quite small. Less than switzerland

Quotes from people involved in healthcare in africa stating that catholic pressure has made it harder to provide condoms don't count

They do, but this is qualitative anecdotal evidence. It shows that it happens, but does not give any indication of how widespread it is

Tue Oct 23, 2007
TEGUCIGALPA (Reuters) -[b] The rapid spread in Latin America of the virus that causes AIDS is made worse by the Roman Catholic Church's stand against using condoms, a U.N. official said on Monday[/b][u].
Some 1.7 million people across Latin America are infected with the HIV virus or full-blown AIDS, and the epidemic is spreading swiftly with up to 410,000 new cases in 2006, up from as many as 320,000 new cases in 2004, according the UN AIDS program, UNAIDS.

400 000+ new case in a year? And that is 6 years ago - epidemics rise exponetially. Not an epidemic?

epidemics rise exponetially. Not an epidemic?

circular argument.
Where is the exponential rise?
Exponential rise is not necessarily a characteristic of an epidemic.
[i] AIDS is[b] made worse[/b] by the Roman Catholic Church's stand against using condoms, a U.N. official said on Monday[/i]

Again, single point data, and i don't deny that the teachings of the catholic church are a factor, but not the main cause.

*bangs head on wall*

There is none so blind as those who will not see.

i don't deny that the teachings of the catholic church are a factor

On which basis, we can safely say that the Catholic Church is A Bad Thing, the magnitude of its Badness can be debated but clearly not the fact that it is...

There is none so blind as those who will not see.

On that I agree! why do you refuse to engage with the evidence. I have done you that courtesy with your evidence

If it is so easy, show me the exponential growth

[i]i don't deny that the teachings of the catholic church are a factor[/i]
On which basis, we can safely say that the Catholic Church is A Bad Thing, the magnitude of its Badness can be debated but clearly not the fact that it is

Too simplistic. Bicycles are a factor in road deaths, does that make them a bad thing?

Popemobile looks like a mobile toilet.

Given his age, it probably is - the seat certainly looks like a commode...

They're not a factor because they don't cause it.

If the church tells someone not to use condoms and they don't when they otherwise would have then they're at least part of the cause and therefore a bad thing.

Are you really saying that a bicycle has never caused a road death?

we've started using 'don't do that or the pope will bum you...' as a disiplinary threat to our 1 year old..

Not as a result of actions it has chosen to take... (though I do swear sometimes that my bikes decide to puncture just to spite me...)