[Closed] paying for someone to look after your kid...

At least these higher earners are paying for the child care and paying their taxes unlike most of the parenting disasters who are claiming billions from the state.

best of luck dude i agree with you i chucked it all in to look after ours.
last time i said something like you just have on here i got burnt at the stake.
fair point soulrider.

I agree with you, to the greatest degree. While I know it's just not possible in some cases (single parents etc), people treat kids as commodities - a must-have item but then one that requires looking after while they go to work, or on holiday. Kids pools on holiday, that's possibly the most depressing thought in the world for me - people so sick of being with their kids that they don't play with them on holiday themselves and leave them with someone else so they can have peace. IMO. I expect you'll die any second now from the angry responses burning into your soul from afar!

go ride you bike mate and stop thinking about lives you don't lead.

oh, no.. you're probably stuck in work making money money money 🙄

nah, i'm sat on the sofa bemoaning the state of society.

money money money isn't what drives me. i only work 3 days a week, 5 hours in total. 🙂

nice one nonk. i'd do the same.

coffeeking - i know what you're getting at re' holidays, but sometimes kids want to play with lots of other kids rather than their parents

why don't you offer to look after you cousin's kid?

i'm in germany, she's in essex.

i often babysit my mates little'un when his folks want an evening out. i'm nice like that.

it'd prob still be cheaper if she payed for your flights 😉

I don't think anyone is qualified enough to criticise someone else's life choices - what is right for one person is wrong for the next.

I [b]would [/b]say that childcare, whilst not providing the *same* environment as at the family home, can provide very valuable experiences for a child though. Out of all our friends' and family's children I have only ever seen positive change in the children when they started to attend.

(Parent to twin girls who are staying at home with mum until around 1 yr old, then going for two full days childcare and a third with grandparents because we simply could not afford to live on what I can earn for an extended period of time FWIW).

Basically I agree with you.

Recently I got married and Me and the misses brought a house.

As with many (possibly most) of the couples I know my wife earns more than me.

Personally I dont think we stretched our selves too much on the house we did manage to put down a 25%.

But basically I get £1600 take home pay after travel + taxes. Admittedly I now spend £2850 a year on getting the train into London which if I COULD get job elsewhere I could save. The reason we moved out of London is the wifes job is near Reading so we saved there, plus London is ****.

The mortgage plus council tax + insurance bills are about £1400.

This does nt leave much room and doesnt include mobile phones, car tax, MOTs etc.

Thing is if we had a kid who should take time off to raise the child ?

Obviously it makes more sense for me to as the wife earns 7000 more than me a year.

But she'll have to take maternity leave anyhow and say we have 2 kids thats two periods of 6 months. There's no saying if I quit my job I'd get another to cover us once the second kid is on its way.

Also frankly having kids cant be much fun so maybe it would be better if the misses had time off.

Also supposedly blokes earn more in the end so maybe we're better off with me continuing to work not taking any breaks and hoping to move up. Also I think its still not looked upon as reasonalbe for blokes to take too much time off to bring up kids so would I then struggle to get another job later ?

I can see some people might think its just easier they continue to both work then they know they wont run out of money later.

I think someone hiding from life smoking dope and playing in the mountains has some cohones to pontificate on how someone else lives their life.

IMHO of course.

We try to balance it. My children have both had 2 days per week at nursery. A because we couldnt afford not too and B because it is really good for them.

My youngest has a cousin who spent the first two years stuck at home with his fat, useless, workshy, evil mother and he was (and still is) leap years behind ours and other kids. His attitude towards interaction, sharing, eating, playing is very underdeveloped. His motorskills are way behind too. He is nearly three now and still hasnt moved on from baby cups or nappies. Looking after children isnt always about smothering them. Sometimes you have to allow them to develop their own personalities and social abilities.

If i was a millionaire, both my kids would still have attended nursery for at least a couple of days per week.

coffeeking - i know what you're getting at re' holidays, but sometimes kids want to play with lots of other kids rather than their parents

Undoubtedly, I wasn't moaning about the fact that facilities are provided, more that some parents see them as a way of offloading a responsibility.

I don't think anyone is qualified enough to criticise someone else's life choices - what is right for one person is wrong for the next.

To some extent, yes, but also there are some fixed "advisory" things for children to progress and form decent families, things that don't change from person to person. I'm fairly sure that shipping kids off to other people for 90% of their waking time doesn't help a family grow, all it does is produce a child that can survive. Of course bad parents are possibly worse than those who are good but don't have time to look after kids at all, but I dont think it's invalid to suggest that a devoted parent and full-time parenting is better than nursery all the time.

I'm sure there's stacks of variables involved but if you ask many people in full-time kiddie teaching world (teaching and support staff) they'll tell you that the kids that get more attention at home and get taught more by parents at home do better than those who are shipped off to sitters all the time. But if finances simply don't allow it I'd be very torn myself - is it right to bring up a kid if you can't afford to spend time with it? To what extent are you using these facilities - if it's only a couple of days a week it's an addition, if it's 100% of the time it's a problem.

The words, "sort you own ****ing life first out" spring to mind of course you may be perfectly happy with your life but I bet you'd hate to think your cousin was talking about your life choice.

Both our kids have gone onto childcare when were at work, it's brought them on massively. As the childcare is there to do one job only and that's look after them to provide them with stimulus. At home when I have them I have to also run the home day to day.

There's advantages to both if your fortunate enough to be able to look after them yourself 24/7 then good for you, we both continued to work as we had to. Mrs reduced her hours and did 3 days a week with the first then went back full time. With the second she dropped to 4 days a week and has stayed that, they couldn't allow her to drop less but she won't be going back full time as there's no need. Be happy if she did 3 days week if work would let her.

To some extent, yes, but also there are some fixed "advisory" things for children to progress and form decent families, things that don't change from person to person.

TooTall - Member

I think someone hiding from life smoking dope and playing in the mountains has some cohones to pontificate on how someone else lives their life.

😆

Drac - Member

The words, "sort you own **** life first out" spring to mind of course you may be perfectly happy with your life but I bet you'd hate to think your cousin was talking about your life choice.

i'd say she was perhaps jealous of my laid back existence.

i'm not knocking childcare and am fully aware little'uns need to experience/learn how to deal with other kids, stand on their own etc. but i wouldn't surplant a family with a glorified babysitter.

i think it's sad that we all (me not included) need to put in so many hours inorder to exist in society. is it our fault or that of societies that we feel we need to work work work so that we can have our TVs, leather sofas, double garage, fancy holidays or 2ltr cars. should we not be content with time spent with friends and family rather than whether you've covered this months direct debits?

2 litre cars are starter cars aren't they?

don't know, mate. mine certainly wasn't. besides all cars should be limited to 1.5ltr. it'd stop all this macho bullshit on the roads.

I enjoy working, I enjoy the luxuries it brings me for myself, wife and the kids. Lying around for hours on end posting on here is boring enough when I have time to do it, can't see why I'd be even remotely jealous of that.

Lying around for hours on end posting on here is boring enough when I have time to do it, can't see why I'd be even remotely jealous of that.

not true! my computer packed up the end of last week. got it going again last night, though.

besides, no need for personal attacks.....

besides, no need for personal attacks.....

I suppose some would consider questioning their child-care methods to be a personal attack.

besides all cars should be limited to 1.5ltr. it'd stop all this macho bullshit on the roads.

Not really, its not too hard to get 300hp from a 1.5. And IMO there isn'ta load of machoness on the roads, it's just laziness and people wanting to get to places without thinking of others. I can count on one hand the number of "macho" moves I've seen on the road in my life. Most of them were in france.

there is no right answer.

Friends of mine put their kids to child minders from 6 months onwards. Heard some fairly upsetting stories about going to pick them up after work to find them sat in a conrer in a nappy that clearly hadn't been changed for hours etc etc.

We decided to have one of us staying at home with our kids until they went/will go to nursery school. Has meant that we've had only one salary to live on and times have been tough but never even occured to us to leave our lads with someone else. Just feels wrong and would rather have no money to be honest.

I can count on one hand the number of "macho" moves I've seen on the road in my life. Most of them were in france.

you should come to germany..... "wie viele PS?"

[i]not true! my computer packed up the end of last week. got it going again last night, though.

besides, no need for personal attacks....[/i]

What makes I you think I meant you?

ah.... must be all that weed.....

...but i haven't sat and smoked in over five weeks (pats self on back).

I think we have to be bit pragmatic about it all. Childcare is not always about the money, money, money. Women (my wife inc) enjoy work as well as being a parent and you just have to get the balance right. I think our little girl has benefitted from being in Nursery she interacts well with other kids and for 3 days a week she goes and enjoys it for the other 4 days she is with either me or my wife (or both).

Most parents I think will always put the Kids 1st and for some that means looking after them all of the time and for others not. Some people send their kids to school every day some teach at home. (which is right? again I think it's whatever works for you)

Each to their own lives and let live but I don't believe the vast majority of parents are selfish and putting money above their kids.

my soon to be position...

fingers crossed my first child is due june 6th.

my wife is going to go back to work after 9 months to 4 days a week (hopefully 3)

my mother is going to have the baby one day.

my mother in law is going to have the baby 2 days

we are then going to put the baby into childcare one day a week. not a creche as such but a woman who is qualified to look after children and has done so for 20 years as we feel this is a better environment compared to a 'classic' creche as it is more 'one on one' attention. as there are horror stories round our way of many places having 18 > 20 year olds looking after children having no experience

i have loads of mates who all have different views on the whole 'child minding' situation.

my parents struggled like hell when i was little, my mum gave up work to look after me until i went to junior school then only worked 2 days a week.

what i dont agree on is what my brother in law and his wife do, their now 3 year old from the age of 6 months was and has been in child care from 8am till 5.30pm 5 days a week... that is just wrong but i stay out of it, their poor girl at the age of 3 can hardly string a sentence together.

another mate takes his 2 days a week and he said it is terrible to see kids left there after 4.30 crying wondering where their parents are when everyone else comes to collect theirs.

society has changed dramatically since i was young, but hey... the conservatives are going to change all that right! 🙄

I don't understand all these stories about rubbish childcare providers though - don't people check them out, ask friends before putting their child/ren in????

My mates GF has a 3 year old just a few months older than our 3 year old, she looks after he and her other 2 kids pretty much 24/7. Her 3 year old can hardly sting words together and is very hard to understand. Ours never shuts the hell up is very clean and uses some great words in perfect context.

You can find pros and cons for both, do what's best for your family.

what is right for one person is wrong for the next.

Maybe, maybe not. But not everyone chooses what actually IS right for them and their family, do they? Otherwise we'd all be perfect parents. Just because someone makes a choice doesn't mean it's the right one.

As for the childcare thing - in the cases I've heard about, the caregiver going back to work does provide SOME extra net income, often not a lot though.

As for why would you want to go back to work - well, looking after kids all day every day in our world does make you a bit stir crazy. I think people often want or need to do something else other than think about their kid 24/7. Now, I'm sure some folk will say 'oh you shouldn't have kids if you can't look after them' but the point is, if you CAN get something else done and still provide a happy productive life for your kids then that's all to the good.

A happy family needs happy parents as well as happy kids. Now if that means servicing your intellectual needs as an adult, or putting a bit of extra cash in the bank to alleviate the stress, then working could be a good way to help matters.

Am deliberately staying out of this 🙄

Nothing to discuss really - you disagree with those people's views...simple as that really.

Nursery is good for kids, allows them to interact with other people their age, develop social skills and all that - does mean less time with the parent(s) but it isn't just them sitting in a room on their own all day.

You seem to disgree with their views but that's the only thing to discuss really...and there isn't much discussion needed on that one.

There's no right answer, but for the majority of parents these decisions ultimately come down to house prices.

Most parents in the UK simply don't have the option of a completely free choice in childcare arrangements while living in a suitable house in a pleasant area without some kind of external assistance - whether that's a second parental income, available, capable and willing grandparent(s) or some other piece of good fortune.

But passing judgement on anyone else's circumstances in these matters, regardless of your own, is pretty crass - being a parent is often hard enough without uninvited commentators adding their input.

should we not be content with time spent with friends and family rather than whether you've covered this months direct debits?

Lovely, but the mortgage needs paid otherwise we're all spending that quality time outside in the cold.

But not everyone chooses what actually IS right for them and their family, do they?

No, some people are just not perfect enough to live in STWland, probably should have been neutered or just euthanased.

I think also as the 'poster' is in Germany he'll find that the tax system there helps one parent to stay home, plus the (by British standards) almost-free kindergarten system and that the school hours are different. This all helps.

TBH we found that once our son got to 3, it was cheaper to put him in private school, than it was to pay a nursery.

Lovely, but the mortgage needs paid otherwise we're all spending that quality time outside in the cold.

we changed ours to an interest only for 5 years to lessen the hit and take a couple of months holiday on that each year and spend the money on summer holidays. We'll have more to pay once the kids are in school but we'll be better equiped to pay it.

In the UK the system helps more if both the parents work from what I am beginning to understand - through a combination of working tax credit and childcare allowance.

Am deliberately staying out of this

Also frankly having kids cant be much fun so maybe it would be better if the misses had time off.

Of course like lots of others on here, our son does go to nursery - 2.5 days a week at the moment. As also pointed out, that's at least partly because it's good for him. As always, he had to be reminded to say goodbye to me when I dropped him off this morning, he's so eager to go and play with his friends at nursery. There's a little boy a few doors down almost exactly the same age who's been looked after at home until very recently, and the difference in social development is huge.

40 post bug fix

[i]yossarian - Member

Lovely, but the mortgage needs paid otherwise we're all spending that quality time outside in the cold.

we changed ours to an interest only for 5 years to lessen the hit and take a couple of months holiday on that each year and spend the money on summer holidays. We'll have more to pay once the kids are in school but we'll be better equiped to pay it.[/i]

That strikes me as someone who is living beyond their means. You are hoping that you are better equipped to pay it in the future? What if you arent?

We put ours in nursery so we could sit at home all day smoking joints watching adult orientated movies whilst procreating some more (all 8 kids are 10 months apart in age), with the benefits we got paid we could have spent it on a private education for us both but that would have meant we'd have had to put the kids in care and sooner or later we'd have got done for benefit fraud, instead we found a really cheap childcare company that took tesco clubcard points in px, which means we get to keep an extra £755.43 a week, which just about keeps us in smack.

That strikes me as someone who is living beyond their means. You are hoping that you are better equipped to pay it in the future? What if you arent?

when the boys are both at school my wife will be going back to work. OUr income increases by circa £25k a year, more than enough to cover the increased cost of our mortgage. As I said previously, for us its more important to have time with our boys before they go to school. My wife has loads of friends who have the same outlook and is off out every day to the beach, the woods (all the kids take their bikes and race up and down the trails :-)), play centres, museums, football training, wildlife centres etc etc etc. Our decision was that this is better for us all (yep slightly selfish from our perspective) than paying someone else to look after our kids.

edit - should also say that my eldest (3 year old) has just started at nursery school for 3 mornings a week and doesnt have any issues 'fitting in' or whatever.

Crikey, thats brave. Thats like living life on the buy now pay later schemes.

Crikey, thats brave. Thats like living life on the buy now pay later schemes

i guess you could look at it like that. Who knows what the future holds for any of us? Would rather have spent as much time as poss with the kids before they are off to school and that time is lost forever than paying off a mortgage. We'd pocket around £50k if we sold our house tomorrow so I'm not too worried.

I'm with C-G on this. Watching with interest.....

Paying a stranger to look after your children defeats the purpose of having a family IMO.

That said, I'd not second guess anyone else's choices - because everyone else's priorities are different.

I can see Yossarian's point though, although its not my style. I started working away when my lad was 7 months old and was made redundant when he was nearly three. I've been full time carer for 12 months now and I realise I've missed that time with my lad, and I deeply regret it. Having decent time with him now, before school, is some compensation, but I'll never get his toddler years back. 😥

That said, I'd not second guess anyone else's choices - because everyone else's priorities are different.

should say I agree with that as well, our decision is best for us and our needs. Its an emotive subject and everyone will feel differently.

Paying a stranger to look after your children defeats the purpose of having a family IMO.

To keep my wife happy of course!
😆

I'm really quite impressed that other than a short burst of handbags, this has been a remarkably reasonable and civil thread.

Obviously it's a ticking timebomb and no doubt some numpty will wade in and break the truce but carry on for now 🙂

(working Dad with wife working too and son in Nursery a significant proportion of the week)

To keep my wife happy of course!

Does my family keep your wife happy?

No but I do 🙂

(Sorry, you set that up too well to resist!)

I'm really quite impressed that other than a short burst of handbags, this has been a remarkably reasonable and civil thread.

I think its because a. everyone on the thread is confortable with their decision and b. a parent 🙂

8)

Also frankly having kids cant be much fun so maybe it would be better if the misses had time off.

Sorry this sentence came across quite badly I meant being pregnant cant be much fun. I dont really know I've never been pregnant. You might not want to go straight back to work after that but then looking after kids is probably more difficult.

I'm going to see if Nick is taking Lodgers... sounds like he has it sorted!

Paying a stranger to look after your children defeats the purpose of having a family IMO.

Umm - I don't think people are talking about doing it 24 hours a day.. just long enough for you to go to work then come back and spend time...

And I am still waiting for that poster to come back with the definitive description of the purpose of a family. 😉

But I DO know the purpose of having a family isn't to spend my life washing and cleaning reusable nappies 😉

I agree with the OP but only to a point as its a bit blinkered. It is about compromise for us. I have twins who will start daycare nursery in September. We made the choice for my wife to take an extra 6 months unpaid leave after her maternity leave and then for her to go back part time. They will be 21 months when they start.

I think they'll be at Nursery for long hours as you say, probably 8 till 5, 5:30 3 days a week. Whilst the hours are longer than ideal 3 days is a good balance IMO. Also you have to consider that my wife doesn't want to stay at home all day every day with the kids and it will be good for their development to have the social interaction and structure that nursery brings. Of course money is a motivator and my wife doesn't want to loose the benefits that staying at work in a fairly senior position afford her. But there is more to a career than money.

Anyway we are pretty happy with our decision, plus it will mean that I will have the money for the 4 ltr BMW I want!

I went back to work when both my children were 3 months old.
Child-care was shared between MrFC who does shift work, and a child-minder.
Judge me all you like...I really don't care.
Foolishly, I didn't marry a high-earner...how silly of me! 🙄

Surely the reason to have kids is so they can look after you, pay for you and wipe your backside for you when you're old and decrepit.

Alternatively, they might just bung you in the cheapest care home they can find and forget about you.

Hmmm. Some parallels here...?

(FWIW, won't be having kids as both the missus and I hate the little bastards, and we're both too selfish to waste our lives dragging them up when there's bikes to be ridden)

(Oh and my boss was back at work a week after dropping her second sprog and was available on email for all but the day she was in hospital)

..Seems that majority of people here are agreeing that leaving your child all day, every day in a nursery is 'bad' and that you need to be able to strike a balance.. hardly surprising

I personally wouldn't want to be stuck at home all day with children. I could perhaps do it for a year or two but I have other interests - I want to put skills I have learnt to good use in the world of work - I don't want my life to be just about looking after babies!

I say good luck to anybody who chooses to have children - it's very (valuable) hard work and puts me off ever having any myself 🙂

miaowing_kat - Member

..................
I personally wouldn't want to be stuck at home all day with children. I could perhaps do it for a year or two but I have other interests - I want to put skills I have learnt to good use in the world of work - I don't want my life to be just about looking after babies!

This is the bit most of the folk who want full time stay at home parentsforget. A mother / wife who's brain has turned to mush from years of nothing but home and children is not always going to be a happy and fulfilled person. I would be insane if all I had was a house and children to occupy me. Not exactly stimulating.

The kids I know that have turned out best have had a part time stay at home parents and part time nursery. Happy and fulfilled parents appears to be the key thing however and a loving environment.

I find myself agreeing with TJ, so I'm off to open a bottle of scotch and leave the kids in front of the telly................ 😉

It would be interesting if contributors mentioned whether their parents worked/whether they were put in child care/grandparents' care etc.

Just wondering if your decision re your own children was affected by those circumstances.

My mother always worked - but part time / as a teacher so she was always home when I was. I was in nursery at 9 months ( I think full time)

My Mum stayed at home and brought up 4 children.
I naively presumed that is what I would do(not the 4 kids bit!!). 😯
Didn't work out like that.
Quite glad it didn't really.

Hmmm, the purpose of a family? Not sure there's a definitive answer to that one. I'm sure evolutionary biologists would say its to maximise the survival chances of the young.

Perhaps my choice of words weren't the best. I don't see any point in having children and then farming them off so that you have a limited relationship with them: an in-extremis example would be those boarding schools that take children from the age of four! IMO that can only be damaging for the child, and the parents would seem like strangers.

I want to spend as much time as possible with my kids having fun and preparing them as best I can for the world. I want my relationship with my kids to be the best I can make it and the more time and effort put into this, the better. This is well established stuff.

Despite this, I'm not anti-childcare, as I tried to say earlier. Its value as support to parents is incalculable. From 6 months, both of my kids went to daycare for the full day every Friday - and we made full use of the free childcare sessions provided by the local authority - You can't have them on the apron strings forever after all.

I do wonder, especially with pre-school age children, how much of a relationship you can develop if they're in daycare every day, all day during adult working hours. Most little kids I know, including my own two, we ready for bed between 18:00 and 19:00. That leaves an hour every evening and maybe the same in the morning? Factor the morning and bedtime routines into that and that leaves the weekend?

I'm not having a pop here, I really am wondering how it works, because we didn't do it like that, and therefore have no experience of it. ❓

FWIW, won't be having kids as both the missus and I hate the little bastards

Heh, with attitudes like that I'm sure your kids WOULD be bastards 🙂 Mine's lovely tho.

Surely the reason to have kids is so they can look after you, pay for you and wipe your backside for you when you're old and decrepit.

Alternatively, they might just bung you in the cheapest care home they can find and forget about you.

Hmmm. Some parallels here...?

Just like to mention that although my comments to Yossarian come across a little blut they werent intended that way. Actually quite impressed with his methods

I'm with Soul Rider. A great line from 3rd Rock From The Sun...."I want to have babies like the humans....and pay complete strangers to look after them.
What amazes me is,people think it's perfectly acceptable to pay somebody to look after their child,less than the parent is earning to do a far more important job.
There's logic in there somewhere.Or not.

The way we worked it was my wife went back to work three months after having each of our daughters, but working three, sometime four, evenings a week for the same company as me, 5.30 - 10.00pm evenings. It meant during the week we hardly saw each other and was frankly f*cking hard work, but it meant the kids were always with one of us, we had no childcare costs, and a reasonable income. They both went to (free, council-run, and very good) nursery half a day each day from the age of 3, but that was for their benefit, not out of necessity.

Personally, I couldn't / wouldn't have put my two in all-day care from a young age, but everyone's cirumstances vary, and it's a personal choice.

Am deliberately staying out of this
me too. Am going back to work when ours is 9 months. My choice, only mine and GF's business, no one elses.

Likewise. I've no idea what Mrs North will, or will want to, be able to manage workwise when the time comes. For now, she's concentrating on being as well as she can during her pregnancy (15 weeks still not at all well).

I shall support her in her decision and cut our cloth accordingly. She won't work for the sake of money - it's not her motivator - but because she is fiercely independent, so a sense of being driven by money won't apply.

A colleague who was once paid the same as me and had 5 kids. He and his wife managed. He is now paid, say 40% more (with the attendant stress), has one more child and they still manage.

What amazes me is,people think it's perfectly acceptable to pay somebody to look after their child,less than the parent is earning to do a far more important job.

You do realise that staff at a nursery can also look after more than one child each?

*deletes long, boring story*

Nursery 40 hours a week is nuts. Be lucky if the kid doesnae grow up a total heidbanger.

My oldest needed regular (non life-threatening) hospital operations from the age of 2 together with associated visits to consultant, tests etc etc. This went on for 15 years.

Every few months he had an operation, that is if it was deemed that he was well enough. Every single time I went with him to the operating theatre and was there when he later woke up.

There was no way I could "out-source" that. He needed his mother.

I was a stay-at-home mum and that was the right decision for my children.