Tell me aabout owning a caravan...
Fed up of pitching tents in the rain, everything getting covered in mud and having to dry it all out when we get home from bike races....
Will I be better of with a cheap ish caravan?
molgrips will be along shortly to tell you about the joys of repairing them..
We have one. It's ace. Selling it come summer, as wifes going back to uni. Consider a few things, storage, bigger vehicle to tow with, slower journeys (but pretty much less stressful), insurance. Plus if your pitching it on fields at races a 4wd might come in handy.
Love ours though. Has a full size seperate shower, central heating etc. If the weather is good tents are ace, but having a caravan means holidays year round. (Not that ours has had its cover off since September).
I spend 4 nights a week in mine and 3 at home. Love it!
You will always want a bigger one, so go for the biggest within your budget that you can tow with your vehicle - and don't go for an older one. More chance of damp/things not working properly.
Storage: fits on drive, hopefully, towing: have van, no problem, slower: no rush, insurance...? Not sure do you mean car or caravan, ?
If you don't mind becoming a social pariah then go for it. 😉
get a van?
More than sorted racing, general bike duties and the rest.
'Have van'
What can it tow? Some vans such as the basic Transit can only manage 750kg legally!
With a van you can avoid towning a box round to sleep in 🙂
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How do I find out what my van can"legally "tow, will it be ont log book?
Love using our caravan. We tend to head down to Italy in the summer for a few weeks and up to the Baltic Sea for long weekends. Our kids absolutely love it and they spend the whole time messing about doing things outside rather than playing computer games the whole time.I would advise getting an awning to give you more room and make sure somebody shows you how to put it up as they can be bloody complicated the first time :oops:.
read the vin plate. Maximum train weight = max van weight + max trailer weight.
Also love caravanning. Our first tim e out was big bike bash in 2009. Arrived at 12am on a cold rainy dark night. Pulled up, unhitched, flicked the lights on and instantly cosy, warm and dry, few minutes after stopping the car. Got a brew on right away and thought how bloody fantastic it was compared to tents. Slept on a comfy mattress with a real duvet and sheets, double glazed windows keeping out the noise of drunken mtbers... 🙂
Oh and the second time was at SITS. Come in from a muddy lap at 2am, get undressed standing up, hot shower then slip between those clean sheets.. fab.
If it's a cheap 2 berth you are after I could sort you out...
Insurance for the caravan. On the road your car insurance covers third party, but you need insurance for theft, damage etc.
Also when did you pass your test ? If post 1991 (I think) your limited to a gross train of 3.5t, but your talking big 4x4 + fairly big caravan to get up near that.
It's funny, our friends are occasional tenters, who shudder at the thought of caravans...yet are more than happy to come inside for a cuppa & use the loo. 🙄
Our wagon train...
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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/5656634895/ ]Car & Caravan-1[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
To those saying just get a van, or slating caravans - really?
A bit untidy at the moment (man on his own) - but lay on bed. TV to left, sofa/single bed beyond that, then shower, kitchen, bathroom, central heating, running water, big awning to get out of muddy clothes - sorted.
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We decided we were fed up with the tent malarkey too and now have a Freedom 3 berth prima sunseeker on order, hopefully getting a collection date soon, and can't bloomin wait. It's not a big one, but it's towable by just about most cars, and we're getting an awning.
I've just moved to a caravan after many happy years in a trailer tent!
Its ace 🙂
When setup right my Van had bed (proper one) bike storage, space for stove, BBQ etc seating. Needed a few more refinements but not many. Add an awning and it would have been spot on.
Every one here seems have quite nice ones, is it a completely stupid idea to be a small, cheap (ie sub £1k) one for race weekends etc? Would probably only be used a few times a year but would typically be for events where it'd get pretty muddy. Have a big temptation to get one just to have somewhere warm to sit if doing team events - or I'll just have to start solo'ing (or just stop doing them unless it's warm!!).
No reason why you can't get a tidy van for £1000.
Look to buy privately,say from people upgrading or retiring.
Privately, there's sometimes accessories thrown in,awning ,water containers ,etc.
People will advise about damp and you can usually smell it when you enter the van.No van is damp free because of moisture in the air.
Older vans tend to be lighter so easier to tow.
Insurance is not obligatory,but is pretty cheap,£85 for my £5000 van.If its not insured you normally have to tell your vehicle insurers.
Towing it with a van will make you look like a pikey.
[i]How do I find out what my van can"legally "tow, will it be ont log book?[/i]
Find the vin plate (usually on the slam panel under the bonnet, on the side of driver/passenger seat box, inside door shut or flap in the footwell carpet. Take the largest number (max train weight), deduct the second largest (max vehicle weight) and this gives you the max towing weight. Taking my van as an example (with unusually high towing limit) its 6300kg - 3500kg = 2800kg trailer. A small Transit will be something like 3350kg - 2600kg = 750kg trailer.
[i]Also when did you pass your test ? If post 1991 (I think) your limited to a gross train of 3.5t, but your talking big 4x4 + fairly big caravan to get up near that.[/i]
It is post '97. With a small saloon you can tow a average caravan and just squeeze under the limit, but if you are driving a van or 4x4 there is very little leeway for a caravan and you may struggle to find something legal. The law permits trailers up to 750kg, so thats a 3500 gross weight vehicle plus a 750kg trailer (max train weight 4250kg) OR, a combination of vehicle plus trailer where the combined weight is up to 3500kg, AND the weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen/kerb weight of the vehicle 🙂 Clear as mud...
It means a medium saloon and caravan can be legal, when a larger estate car (or 4x4) and the same caravan is illegal, even though its a more suitable/safe match. Looking at Takisawa's 'wagon train', almost certainly over the limit for a post '97 license, needs B+E.
double post...
We got a caravan 3 years ago after waking up freezing in the Cotswolds in April and got fed up of having to go to bed early and in all the clothes that we brought with us.
Either buy a retirees caravan with all the bits.....check gumtree or local ads you might get a bargain. Or go to your local dealer. Our first one cost 3k but had insurance backed guarantee. You will never look back!
Every one here seems have quite nice ones, is it a completely stupid idea to be a small, cheap (ie sub £1k) one for race weekends etc?
That's exactly what we did, and we only changed it (for a slightly more expensive older one) because we had a second kid. The bed in our 2 berth is actually big enough for the four of us, but it means going to bed at the same time as the kids, or sitting in the awning 🙂
Yes you can get a usable van for a grand, if you get a 2 berth. 4 or more berths are more expensive. But be prepared to see an awful lot of dross, we saw some awful moldy old junk when we were looking.
Where are you based? I am selling my recently repaired and refurbished van if you are interested 🙂 email in profile. I can throw in full starter kit and awning...
With a small saloon you can tow a average caravan and just squeeze under the limit
Really? My big saloon (Passat) is 1500kg, I would not tow anything more than 1500kg all up which is a pretty decent sized modern van, and that's only 3000kg all up. To the OP, regarding weight, most older vans are around 1,000kg or slightly more, so it's a lot easier to match a car.
It's worth noting that the 'max towing weight' specified in your handbook will be the maximum it can start off with on a 12% slope or something - that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea though for stability reasons. The old rule of thumb was the max loaded weight of the van (MTPLM) should be no more than 85% of the car's kerb weight, but they relax that for newer caravans and cars.
Oh and dealers are incredibly expensive. Sure you get a warranty, but you can end up paying 4 or 5 grand for a van that would cost you £1500 on ebay.
If you don't mind becoming a social pariah then go for it.
It only makes you a pariah in the eyes of the Jerermy Clarksons on this world, and that can only be a good thing 😀
[i]Really? My big saloon (Passat) is 1500kg, I would not tow anything more than 1500kg all up which is a pretty decent sized modern van, and that's only 3000kg all up[/i]
When I wrote small, I meant medium 🙂 Your Passat (medium to large and 1500kg unladen) probably has a gross weight of around 2000-2200kg, so taking your 1500kg van, it would be at or most likely over the limit for the license. A slightly lighter van and a Golf/Focus would probably come in under the limit.
I had based an average van at 1000kg unladen, 1300kg laden off the top of my head.
Well I have a pre-97 license anyway, so it's not a big deal, but my wife doesn't. I think I can squeak under it with some of the newer vans we were looking at, back when we thought we might be able to buy one!
I have a post '97 license and had to fork out for the training and test. About £600 I think and I only did 3 lessons 🙁
Probably cheaper for your wife to get B+E than start juggling tow vehicles/caravans to stay under the limit.
That's a right rip off. What did they teach you?
I'm around 4.5 tonnes and 43ft long when hooked up! 22mpg-tastic.
When I said three lessons, I meant three half days and that included use of their own vehicle/trailer and included the test fees. It was a pretty fair price I think, seeing as you'd expect to pay £1000 for an HGV license all in, and then another £1000 for an artic license.
Edit:
6.3 tons with a live load, 40 feet, only 120bhp. It works out at a piddling 19bhp per ton 🙂 18mpg-tastic. But my van is a camper so it is basically carrying a caravan plus a horsebox at the same time 🙂
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22mpg-tastic.
What are you towing with? We got 29 or so with our old van, the new one got 33 or so on the run back from where we bought it.
I guess the new one isn't the one with the wardrobe/damp modifications 🙂
Pics of the new one?
if you get one pull over in every lay by you see before somebody kills you 🙂
Pre 97 so can tow anything here, why pay for lessons when 10te trailers in the dark can teach you 🙂
A navara - only does 30 without the van. 190bhp though so unlike spooky, it has enough grunt.
Hoping for one of these next
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New one, Bailey Discovery (I think) 1993
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It's the least desirable 4 berth layout imo, the kids are right by you trying to sleep as you are trying to have grown-up time, but the van itself was a better deal and generally a lot nicer than the other one we looked at. However that one had a end dinette at the far end with a door on it!
Excellent bargain for its condition I think.
Ours will look like this
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I'm not sure the wine comes with it though. They've got even smaller ones too. Fibreglass body, lightweight (unladen weight 650kg).
Despite 5 or 6 years of goog fun, we're selling our c'van and going back to tents for a few reasons.
Cost of fuel to tow, Cost of c'van suitable sites which appear to be cashing in on the upsurge of poularity, The need to generally book sites in advance with a c'van whereas you can usually always find somewhere to pitch a tent at the last minute. The feeling of isolation from the 'camping experience' / 'outdoors' when you're sat inside. Plus, we have taken the decision to go on holidays where the sun is more likely to shine and as such lugging a box of air around seems pointless.
I bazookajoe's small van.
The feeling of isolation from the 'camping experience' / 'outdoors' when you're sat inside.
Hmm.. we still have a full set of camping gear which was most recently used in the US last year. We'll always have a need to camp, but we view caravanning as accommodation for when you're doing other stuff, not as an activity in itself.
So for feeling the outdoors, there's walking into the hills and camping. For staying somewhere for a family holiday whilst you go to beaches, castles, local towns and whatever, there's caravans. Better than B&Bs and cheaper than hotels imo.
One thing to bear in mind if your considering towing with a van is that many cam sites wont allow them onto the sites as they are asscoiated with the traveller community.
I used a transit T280 and found the easiest way to find out hat could be towed was to ask at one of the VOSA stations as i found the information on the net very confusing.
The towing limit is based on MAM (maximum allowable mass) therefore and empty van can tow more that a loaded one.
Woth bearing in mind as the temptation is to load the van with bikes and gear etc.
Mol - I sort of agree. We bought ours before we had kids and used to go walking etc. for 12hours and it was just somewhere to sleep at the end of the day. Things seem to have changed a bit now and for the time being, I would rather pitch a tent in the south of france (and go to beaches, castles, local towns and whatever)than sit in a c'van in the UK.
Well that's true, if you can't afford the diesel to get anywhere interesting then that's a significant point. However, we're still keeping our camping gear like I say.
Although our camping set-up is as light weight as we can get for a family, so we can take it on a plane. We wouldn't bother with pop-up kitchens and wardrobes etc since that's too close to caravanning. And it becomes a lot more work to put up and take down than a light weight 4-man tent 🙂
Of course - having the caravan doesn't mean you have to sit inside it.. that's what awnings are for 🙂
Where are you based? I am selling my recently repaired and refurbished van if you are interested email in profile. I can throw in full starter kit and awning...
I'm Edinburgh based.
Think I'm going to stumble on the post '97 licence and towing on the back of a Transit though. Sounds like I'd have to get one of the tiny caravans (not against that idea) to fall into the weight category, either that or tow with my Jag and the main benefit of the van is that bikes are hidden away all weekend. Got quite a nice set up in the van sleeping in the back seats but for things like the 'puffer which is on my list it'd be great to have somewhere a bit warmer to sit in off laps.
Will have a look at the VIN plate later.
Thanks for all the info everyone is sharing in this post though, hope asking the question about the cheaper 'van isn't counted as a hijack!
What transit is it?
Bear in mind you can hide or otherwise secure bikes inside caravan... My 'van is 1050kg all up I think.
What transit is it?Bear in mind you can hide or otherwise secure bikes inside caravan... My 'van is 1050kg all up I think.
It's an '05 plate, T280 2.0tdi. The 100bhp one. Didn't take it when we were out the office for lunch so never got a look at the VIN.
Would much prefer to have the van at any race weekends, can keep much more kit randomly in there and happier to treat it as much more of a 'dirty' weekend car. Jag tends to be nice and clean without all the bike clutter in it.
If you're around the same area I certainly wouldn't mind a look around it, got to sort out whether I can tow it, find somewhere to store it and get a tow bar on the van (car has one already) but that's all easy enough to sort out!
So - the max train weight, this is the maximum your rig is allowed to weigh at the time you are towing? So your van may be able to carry 3t or whatever, but if you don't, you're ok?
A quick google suggests your van might weigh 1800kg or so, roughly, which leaves 1000kg for an older van (like mine 🙂 ) and 700kg left for passengers and junk.
Incidentally I think my van is 900kg or thereabouts unladen, fully laden is 1050... but you'll not have much in it if you are filling your van with bikes/awnings/whatever.
I live in Cardiff unfortunately... long old way even to meet halfway.
Haven't been down to Cardiff to see my mate in ages, if I wasn't busy pretty much every weekend I'd actually be due a trip down there.
That plus I'd probably have to tow it on the Jag which would be horrific on fuel, 4.2 v8 with a supercharger, towing, covering 400 miles each way - it'd probably cost more than buying a brand new one up here!!!
Out of interest, what type of caravan is it to get an idea what I'd be looking at?
Mardon Dalesman 460/2, early 90s vintage. 16' ish, 2 berth, the seats are long enough to sleep on without having to make beds up. Fridge, oven, gas/electric water heater, gas blown air heating, cassette toilet, shower.
Fully repaired damp, new carpet, and 3 new tyres 3 years ago (almost all cheap vans have knackered tyres) Awning, water and waste bottles, relevant pipes, electric cables, gas bottle.
Even though it's old and a little scruffy, it's surprisingly comfortable and appealing - much more so than most of the cold dank vans you'll see that price point. I'd not be selling it if we didn't have kids.
You'd be surprised with the Jag - big petrol engines lose less economy than more efficient cars when towing.
As this is getting a bit away from the original topic do you fnacy dropping me an email (in profile) with pics, what price you were thinking etc Mol?
As said above I'm in no rush to do anything but if the right opportunity came up I'd certainly be prepared to move!