[Closed] Overtaking.

Drivers should be checking what's around them constantly. Nobody's perfect, but you shouldn't be 'surprised' by other people taking overtaking opportunities that you have also seen.

"Indicating" is indicating an intention, it doesn't provide a right-of-way.

If I'm overtaking a column of bumper-to-bumper vehicles I'm wary of unobservant people pulling out, but I'm also keen to get it over with as quickly as possible. I don't want somebody, who's been considering (do I?/don't I?) a move for the past 30 seconds, dawdling out in front of me, requiring me to slow down on the off-side of the road.

the guy did indeed have every intention of overtaking but

Overtaking someone who's clearly not a good driver but wants to pass, and is pulling out to have a look every few seconds - sounds really risky to me! You're expecting someone like that to be properly checking their mirrors before making a move?

I don't want somebody, who's been considering (do I?/don't I?) a move for the past 30 seconds, dawdling out in front of me, requiring me to slow down on the off-side of the road.

Yeah that's why queue jumping can be risky...

Who on here indicates to let people past when they are dawdling?

Sometimes I'm a tourist too and if I pootling along admiring the view I'll indicate to the left and slow down to let faster traffic past.

I also do it for bikes and really quick stuff like Evo's and Scooby's

I really appreciate it when people do it for me and always acknowledge my thanks.

I just wish people did it more often, but I guess a lot of parts of our little islands are too crowded.

I'm not saying I expect to maintain a constant speed through every corner, just that some people are ridiculously cautious & slow excessively for every slight corner or oncoming vehicle, when the road isn't narrow enough to require such slowing.

Who on here indicates to let people past when they are dawdling?

I do sometimes, and/or just back right off on a straight if someone's clearly itching to get past. Even if I think they shouldn't be, since I'm pretty much always driving at the speed limit. The only reason I might not be is if one of my kids is about to puke or something. Or if I am towing.

Like a window into another world this thread... 😐

First off i have skipped to the end after page 3.
I cam to the following conclusion the other day. people don't like anyone getting passed them be it overtake in a car or filter on a bike (either sort) as they are seen as jumping the que which just isn't british, even if the person going past isn't having any effect on the que in question.

Oh dear, Molgrips seems to think I'm on some sort of tirade aimed at him. Not the case at all, I'm making a generalist observation. Have a read of what stumpy 01 & richmtb describe. It is this type & those who I have described previously, watching half an empty straight disappear before eventually deciding to overtake, that I mean in terms of hesitancy & preparation.
I'm not a reckless lunatic, but if you drive as I've described above, then yeah, I'm that person passing because you took too long to decide to pass or not.
Again, if you're going to pass...put your bloody foot down. If your car hasn't the get up & go to safely deliver you back to the correct side of the road, past the vehicle(s) you intend passing & with a safety margin built in (not diving in as you brake for the approaching corner or to avoid the near miss with oncoming traffic), then don't pass. Just consider that someone else may be able to pass far more efficiently & make allowance. As my previous comment, happy to make way if others are travelling faster.

😀
Some classic road habits in this thread. The drivers who do 40 every where no matter what zone they are in made me laugh.

I think it has been said many times already.. respect each other! If you want to drive slowly or take your time make sure you are not causing others to drive your way.
If you want to drive quickly and overtake make sure you do it safely without effecting anyone else. Both perfectly safe and reasonable driving behaviours.

The OP is spot on, better driving education is needed (especially for overtaking cyclists; Good average drivers do not seem to understand the dangermouse when cycles need overtaking.)

It is this type & those who I have described previously, watching half an empty straight disappear before eventually deciding to overtake, that I mean in terms of hesitancy & preparation.

Yep, that pisses me off too, of course it does. I don't drive like that.

Again, if you're going to pass...put your bloody foot down.

Yes that's also clearly ridiculous. Although, a friend after about 30 years of marriage discovered that his wife who'd been driving since 17 or so didn't actually know you were supposed to change down to overtake.....

The OP is spot on, better driving education is needed

Yep, both in this and in how to merge onto motorways and DCs on sliproads... 👿

I'm talking about being PREVENTED from going when I could have gone, because someone else has stolen my spot.

It's a flow of traffic, not a queue. You don't have a spot.

For what its worth I would rather have you over take than have you trying to mate with the back of my car all the bloody way home which I find distracting, especially at night in 4x4 with the beams too high... I will overtake when I feel I can but in a bog standard diesel Mondeo on country roads I much prefer to play it safe than chance it. What is alarming is people who just pull out, then start indicating, usually you can spot these poeple a mile off (pie chart on the front of the car, or interlocking rings and they've been romping up the road behind you), sometimes they can take you by surprise. But if you're a twonk in a powerful car with poor regard for road safety, I'd rather have you the hell away from me and mine thank you.

Some classic road habits in this thread. The drivers who do 40 every where no matter what zone they are in made me laugh.

I followed someone in an Audi of all things from Nidderdale to Ripon last week, 35 the WHOLE WAY - combination of snow drifts and oncoming traffic so no overtaking chance I was willing to take, even once in Ripon and in the 30 zone - 35. Mind boggling. I still ended up next to him in the traffic lights. Tried not to gorp, "what kind of person are you?" Not angry, just fascinated.

It's a flow of traffic, not a queue. You don't have a spot.

Disagree.

Why would it not be a queue? If we're all waiting to overtake, and have been sat there for 10 mins, why should you get to go first when you've only just arrived?

Why would it not be a queue? If we're all waiting to overtake, and have been sat there for 10 mins, why should you get to go first when you've only just arrived?

special badge on front of car?

I don't want somebody, who's been considering (do I?/don't I?) a move for the past 30 seconds, dawdling out in front of me, requiring me to slow down on the off-side of the road.
Yeah that's why queue jumping can be risky...

But if the person pulling out late were checking their mirrors before commencement of the overtake manoeuvre (not do I/don't I, check mirrors, have a look up the road again, mental calculation, another few do I/don't I moments & then pull out..note time passed since 1st mirror check), there wouldn't be an issue.
If I make a pass requiring more than one vehicle to be passed, then it factors into that calculation...what if?
The issue is some have different speed/distance/car performance perception than others & make that decision at different rates, meaning car A could already be well on its way through an overtake before car B has made a decision.
If you're plodding, let others go & make it as easy as you can - I find it less stressful & consider it safer than having a car inches from being embedded in my rear bumper as I drive along. If you want to get on, then be decisive.

Interesting to see the assumption by many that anyone overtaking is a rage fuelled lunatic; says a lot more about them than the overtaker.

Nothing wrong with overtaking more than one vehicle at once either.
I've done it before with no drama on fen roads with miles of visibility.

The idea that I must be suffering from uncontrollable fury is pretty amusing as I picture myself pootling along in my little red Micra, complete with flower stickers all over it and with Otis Redding on the stereo (not too loud).
🙂

molgrips - Member
It frequently happens that I see clear road, signal, look in my mirror,

Mirror, signal, manoeuvre old chap. 😉

You do sound very angry, maybe the roads aren't for you?

I'm not angry unless someone pushes in front of me. It'd make me (and most people) angry in the supermarket, why not on the roads?

molgrips - Member

I'm not angry unless someone pushes in front of me. It'd make me (and most people) angry in the supermarket, why not on the roads?

Anything that could cloud your judgement on the roads is bad. Take solace in reacting safely to other people's bad driving, rather than getting wound up.
🙂

I seem to remember a similar thread maybe a year ago then went down the exact same cul de sac.

Can we have the giraffe back?

molgrips - Member

It's a flow of traffic, not a queue. You don't have a spot.

Disagree.

Why would it not be a queue? If we're all waiting to overtake, and have been sat there for 10 mins, why should you get to go first when you've only just arrived?

Molegrips, have you read the highway code regarding, overtaking? I suggest you do and maybe you won't get so frustrated in the future. Here it is below for reference. Nothing about having to wait in a 'check out style queue' as you put it. These are the official rules - not some self made moral guide that you insist on adhering to.

138. Before overtaking you should make sure

• the road is sufficiently clear ahead
• the vehicle behind is not beginning to overtake you
• there is a suitable gap in front of the vehicle you plan to overtake.

139. Overtake only when it is safe to do so. You should

• not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area and then start to move out
• not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in
• take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance
• give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
• only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
• stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left
• give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would a car when overtaking (see Rules 188, 189 and 191.

140. Large vehicles. Overtaking these is more difficult. You should

• drop back to increase your ability to see ahead. Getting too close to large vehicles will obscure your view of the road ahead and there may be another slow moving vehicle in front
• make sure that you have enough room to complete your overtaking manoeuvre before committing yourself. It takes longer to pass a large vehicle. If in doubt do not overtake
• not assume you can follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking a long vehicle. If a problem develops, they may abort overtaking and pull back in.

141. You MUST NOT overtake

• if you would have to cross or straddle double white lines with a solid line nearest to you (but see Rule 108)
• if you would have to enter an area designed to divide traffic, if it is surrounded by a solid white line
• the nearest vehicle to a pedestrian crossing, especially when it has stopped to let pedestrians cross
• if you would have to enter a lane reserved for buses, trams or cycles during its hours of operation
• after a 'No Overtaking' sign and until you pass a sign cancelling the restriction.

142. DO NOT overtake if there is any doubt, or where you cannot see far enough ahead to be sure it is safe. For example, when you are approaching

• a corner or bend
• a hump bridge
• the brow of a hill.

143. DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

• approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
• where the road narrows
• when approaching a school crossing patrol
• between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
• where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
• when you would force another vehicle to swerve or slow down
• at a level crossing
• when a vehicle is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled.

144. Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.

145. Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.

In 20 years we will look back in amazement that humans were allowed to control vehicles, hopefully.

not some self made moral guide that you insist on adhering to.

Well there is nothing in the rules about queueing nicely at the checkout either, but it's still considered important.

Thanks for the highway code spam, but it's not really relevant.

I'm with the OP on this one. I have a 1hr 30 minute commute via car. If I do not take opportunities to overtake, briskly pull out at roundabouts and take every opportunity to 'make progress' then my commute can easily become 2hrs+
Yes I could leave earlier, but where do you draw the line? Leave 3 hours for the commute in case you get stuck behind a tractor? No. The journey takes an hour at a weekend, and 1hr 30 mins midweek providing you crack on, within the law that is.
As for making progress, you are actively encouraged when you do your bike test to make progress, get up to the speed limit swiftly and safely, and you will fail if you don't. The reason for this is that on a bike you put yourself at risk by not driving at or close to the limit.

I still maintain that the roads would be a far safer place if everyone had to pass a motorcycle test. You realise very quickly how vulnerable you are and how simple things can put you at risk.

Thanks for the highway code spam, but it's not really relevant.

WTF - are you serious? Perhaps you should educate the 30 million other drivers to your 'alternative highway code' then so that they know what to expect before incurring your road rage out on the road.

For your information, when a duel carridgeway merges into one lane then the highway code says to use both lanes fully then merge in turn at the obstruction. This is to make the traffic flow as smooth as possible.

It doesn't say everyone must queue in the left lane causing obstructions on the slip roads. With your logic I bet you're the kind of driver who thinks it's your moral obligation to sit straddling both lanes to prevent people from sneaking round on the right? If you are then you need to get real - not only are you ignoring the highway code but you're acting like a selfish spoilt child.

I bet you're the kind of driver who

Bet away. You seem like the kind of person to make sweeping assumptions about people you don't know. It's not a good idea. Especially when you are inventing things you think I've done to have extra stuff to moan about.

My complaints are about common decency, and that's not usually covered in the highway code. That's why I'm saying it's a red herring.

Why would it not be a queue? If we're all waiting to overtake

Because you're not.

If it's a queue, why is anybody allowed to overtake? What happened to the right of the person at the front of the queue to get served first?

Because you're not.

I am.

I've said as much repeatedly.

I'm with the OP on this one. I have a 1hr 30 minute commute via car.

There's your problem. Poor life decisions. 😛

The highway code also says that if you are being overtaken, you should slow down if necessary to let the other car complete the manoeuvre safely, and then pull back to allow a 2-second gap between you and the car in front.

I am.

I've said as much repeatedly.

You said "we". I'll bet not everybody in your "queue" is going to.

Though I still don't understand why you're struggling so much to differentiate between the idiots you have a problem with and those people on this thread who will wait for people in front of them to have a go at overtaking first, and will give those in front of them a chance to pull out (but still want to overtake the line of cars, so will overtake using multiple attempts).

grum - Member

I'm with the OP on this one. I have a 1hr 30 minute commute via car.

There's your problem. Poor life decisions.

Best decision I ever made. I've gone from an employee to a company director and share holder within 3 years, because of this move. 😛

I think a big part of the problem here is that everyone (but especially people on STW) thinks they are above average in terms of driving skill/competence. So everyone thinks the way they drive must be safe/correct.

Pretty sure there was some research recently showing many people perceive themselves to be good drivers, but this wasn't backed up by actual driving standards.

Best decision I ever made. I've gone from an employee to a company director and share holder within 3 years, because of this move.

If money is that important I guess. Personally there's no amount you could pay me to spend 3-4 hours a day driving on congested roads.

Pretty sure there was some research recently showing many people perceive themselves to be good drivers, but this wasn't backed up by actual driving standards.

Any statistics for IAM drivers? 🙂

^^ spot on grum!

grum - Member

I think a big part of the problem here is that everyone (but especially people on STW) thinks they are above average in terms of driving skill/competence. So everyone thinks the way they drive must be safe/correct.

Pretty sure there was some research recently showing many people perceive themselves to be good drivers, but this wasn't backed up by actual driving standards.

Best decision I ever made. I've gone from an employee to a company director and share holder within 3 years, because of this move.

If money is that important I guess. Personally there's no amount you could pay me to spend 3-4 hours a day driving on congested roads.

Umm. I don't remember moaning about my commute, which you said was a poor life decision. I used it as an example! And you're assuming that my move was motivated by money! But no probs. I'm happy which is what counts. 🙂

Though I still don't understand why you're struggling so much to differentiate between the idiots you have a problem with and those people on this thread who will wait for people in front of them to have a go at overtaking first

The same reason they are assuming I'm a dangerous dawdler who has no clue.

I still get overtaken when I'm next in line to overtake and clearly moving out to look down the road. I also get overtaken when I'm two or three back, and am intending to overtake.

If you are in favour of queue jumping, do you think I should overtake all the cars in front of me until I am at the front? But what if the cars in front of me also want to overtake? They then should overtake me back?

Do you think that this would be a safe way of dealing with slow traffic? Everyone trying to pass everyone else to get to the front? If your answer is no, which it should be, then it has become a queue hasn't it?

Dunno darcy, I can make some up if you like? 🙂

Umm. I don't remember moaning about my commute, which you said was a poor life decision.

My point is, you were suggesting you have to do what sounds like driving a bit aggressively, because of the length of your commute. I was pointing out that the length of your commute is a choice you've made.

Yes, it is a choice/decsion whatever you want to call it, but it is also a good and positive one. Not a poor one as was suggested, otherwise I'd make the decision/choice to change it! 😛

Thanks for the highway code spam, [u]but it's not really relevant[/u].

No, I can clearly see why the rules and guidelines governing the use of the road for all users wouldn't be relevant to someone as sanctimonious as yourself.

Someone mentioned 30 million drivers. That's an awful lot of cars with which we have to share our crowded roads. It's no wonder the driving gods get a bit wound up...especially with a driver of average skill.

deadlydarcy - Member

Any statistics for IAM drivers?

Advanced drivers are less likely to crash. 🙂

I've read the OP and agree, can't be bothered to read the other 8 pages as I'm guessing they are full of the folk who don't/can't overtake.

And the more power you've got, the more places are safe to overtake. My wife's car has 100bhp and needs long straights and good visability, my car has 250bhp so needs far less.
M/C's can pretty much overtake anywhere, been so quick and skinny.

Anyway its not speed that's the problem, it's crap driving. This morning I did 140 miles, with 120 of them on fast single carriageway A roads mostly running 60-80mph. And the only 'incident' I saw was two cars that had crashed at a local T junction in a 40 limit. One was turning right across traffic and an old gimmer just ran straight into them. Did they see them, were they actually looking? Gawd knows.

sbob - Member

Advanced drivers are less likely to crash.

...but they are also a self-selecting group.

I have an IAM certificate and a lapsed membership.

deadlydarcy - Member

It's no wonder the driving gods get a bit wound up

Who are these "driving gods" that keep getting mentioned?
Is it those that understand their driving can be improved, and seek to improve it?
Or is it those that don't need improvement, who coincidently drive Audis, work in IT and ride Orange 5s?
🙂