[Closed] Osteopathy - is it in the same league as homeopathy etc? Talk to me please...

Is that not uphill gardening?

I thought that was ron jeremy?

All you need to do to make a joint crack is to give it a high velocity and high amplitude thrust

but most osteos don't do that, they use an indirect method to get the release.

Chiros are more direct, generally.

I guess I should have a quick post here...
It's not magic, it is pure mechanics! If a part of the body is out of alignment then the surrounding muscles and ligaments are put under undue stress & strain so predispose that part to injury. We try to reverse this pattern to remove the problems at their root cause. An Ostepath will look at the whole body looking for patterns that may have caused the problem you are experiencing.

"crikey - Member

[i]Not sure I can see how a physio is going to be a better manipulator when an osteo spends 4 years studying manipulation and a physio 3-4 years on a wider curriculum.

Do want to be manipulated or do you want to get better?

The two are not exclusive, but the whole idea of physios doing all that 'wider curriculum' stuff is to be able to help people, rather than make fancy cracking sounds..."[/i]

Physios do not have a wider curriculum of 'stuff' to learn we both learn about the human body, physiology, anatomy and mechanics. Osteopaths have a 4 year MSc and contrary to some people's belief it is not all about manipulation!
Manipulation forms a part of my treatment of patients, Soft tissue massage is manipulation! Rehabilitaion of a patient requires looking at lifestyle, exercise, posture etc as well as adjusting bones and muscles.
Fancy clicks are usually just the 'icing on the cake' in a treatment the rest of the treatment is designed to do most of the work.

I would like to point out that there are awful Physio's, awful chiro's and awful osteopaths out there go on a recommendation from friend or colleague to make sure you get the right one.

I treat musculoskeletal conditions, other conditions appear to get better in the process sometimes which is great my patients love that bit!
I do not create patient reliance, I actively discourage too regular treatment.
If you really want this evidance based medicine then the UK BEAM trial showed that Osteopathy helps musculoskeletal conditions.
I prefer to rely on the fact that 93 percent of my patients get better from my treatment in a shorter period of time than they expected (and yes I did do the proper statistics on this!)
sorry for the essay!

UK BEAM trial showed that Osteopathy helps musculoskeletal conditions.

Hardly a ringing endorsement and that is the best result ever got. Quite possibly down to placebo effect.

Conclusions Relative to “best care” in general practice, manipulation followed by exercise achieved a moderate benefit at three months and a small benefit at 12 months; spinal manipulation achieved a small to moderate benefit at three months and a small benefit at 12 months; and exercise achieved a small benefit at three months but not 12 months

Most research on this shows no benefit at all.

Now I have had osteopathy and I don't make the mistake of confusing it with physio. However stating stuff the example of the horse rider above and

93 percent of my patients get better from my treatment in a shorter period of time than they expected

93 percent of my patients get better from my treatment in a shorter period of time than they expected

do you no good and destroy any claims to credibility

We are heavily regulated as a profession the general osteopathic council is there to protect patients if you have a poor treatment then complain to them Osteopaths do get struck off if they are not up to standard
Have you had a particularly bad experience of Osteopaths Tandemjeremy

TJ says earlier that hes used them to some benefit.

I think what he means is that practitioner survey based statistics really arent of much value in the clinical environment.

I havent read the papers alluded to, but Im guessing that there's very few normalised trials comparing like-for-like clinical performance of osteo versus anti-inflammatory drugs or physios or massage etc etc. And without it there's not enough to hang wider conclusions on other than that some people benefit from some elements of the treatment, but maybe not all, and not for everyone and not for all symptoms.

AS Junkyard says - I am a believer in evidence based practice. I want to see randonmised double blind studies showing benefits.

So most of your patients get better quicker than they thought they would - shows exactly nothing as to the efficacy of the treatment, it shows they are happy thats all.

Its that kind of non rigorousness analysis presented as evidence that destroys credibility.

Thats why the BEAM study is good - it is rigourous and valid. It only shows very small benefits.

TJ says earlier that hes used them to some benefit.

how does he know it was to some benefit - it could just have been a placebo effect?

It was me that mentioned to horse rider - I am not an osteo.

After tearing my L5-S1 disc playing rugby, osteopathy helped me get some quality of life back. My point is that the treatment helped. I do not care whether there is clinical proof or not.

junkyard? eh? 😉

I understand and agree with the fact there is a lack of 'Gold standard' trials out there but I feel that there needs to be something better than a double blind randomized controlled trails as this is not possible in a clinical situation as the variables that you are dealing with are vast. For a start every 'body' is different every time you see it.
I know we live in a world where 'evidence based medicine' is what we are after but the tools are not there! In absence of this I have to rely on the information I have available. No I won't help everyone but show me a drug that has come through all the double blind trials and helps everyone that uses it.

I work very hard for my patients and if they are happy with the treatment that is what I am after. If they walk out with less pain than they previously had then I feel I have done my job. If a pain they had for 2 years magically goes away after a treatment and stays gone for a further year, I feel I have done my job! silly examples I know but it's how I sleep at night!

I can recommend this as well:

[url= http://www.backstretcher.com/en/products/backstretcher ]Backstretcher[/url]

something else for TJ and SBZ to slag off, but it works well for me.

😳

precursor to the backstretcher 😉
[img] [/img]

The inventor of the backstretcher is a physiotherapist.

It works really well - the idea is that you lie on the rest and gradually relax into it, and the weight of your head will cause your back to stretch out.

A bit like what people try to achieve with inversion tables and hanging from door frames, but the premise is that you will never stretch out fully using these methods as your back muscles have to support your weight, which they do not on the backstretcher.

There are some medical reports listed on their site but I actually had a link to a paper that did a study of the amount of elongation a patient acheived through the various methods, and the backstretcher was the most effective.

No good for lower back pain though, only upper.

sorry, did someone say ...

[i]AS Junkyard says - I am a believer in evidence based practice. I want to see randonmised double blind studies showing benefits[/i]

Like this?
[url] http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459.full [/url]

Very good Ian

psychle, go and see Daniel. let me know if you need his details again. £60 to find out. And my recommendation that he's bloody good. Recommended to me by a doctor who's seen loads of speacialists in different areas. Recommended to her as the best person to see in London by a well respected Osteopath in Suffolk who runs a practice with 10 osteopaths.

AS Junkyard says - I am a believer in evidence based practice. I want to see randonmised double blind studies showing benefits

Like this?
http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459.full

Love it!

As I have said use a recommendation of an osteopath from a friend/colleague and you shouldn't be disappointed by the outcome!
So perhaps use [i]nedrapier[/i] referral or let me know where you are based and I can recommend someone who is respected in the profession. Good luck in your journey to health I hope my profession stands up to your scrutiny!! ([i]sits biting nails nervously!![/i])

LOL @ Ian's link.

Cheers for all the discussion chaps, appreciated. I guess I was a bit worried (after a bit of googling) that Osteopathy was a somewhat like Bowen Technique (which I tried ages ago but found just to 'wishy washy' for me!), hence the question as to it's legitimacy...

I really want a good solid physical therapy that looks at all the aches and pains I have (and there's a few!) and hopefully finds a 'whole body' type solution/treatment - physio is good, but I've always found that it treats only one thing at a time, rather than looking at the bigger picture (could be that I've had the wrong Physiotherapist of course).

Anyhoo, shall give Daniel a call and see how we go (Ned, is he based near Sloane Square btw?)

yup. ygm avec directions.

I have been to Osteo for a few injuries, back injuries/treatment I think they are very good, anything outwith spine, lower back I would go to physio.

I did go to Chiropractor for a back issue, never again (although I believe some people think they are good, I just dont.)