[Closed] Osbourne says no to currency union.

Obvious from prior posts not elligable and in favour of Scotland remaining within the Union, however that's based upon them being a willing and constructive partner. If a no vote leads to continual SNP nonesense then I'd rather see Scotland independent. Against devo-max.

As for smaller counties being more efficient with less government I don't think that's true at, Scotland is complaining it doesn't have enough MEPs for example - its arguing for more politians. It's clear in today's world the larger counties are pulling away, US, China, India, Russia, relative sleeping giants like Brazil and Indonesia will only strengthen over time.

Will be voting yes. Post independence we can build new unions.

Gordon Brown has warned his fellow Scots that a vote for independence would mean them losing their British state pension.

Versus the Scottish governments paper that states

For those people living in Scotland in receipt of the UK State Pension at the time of independence, the responsibility for the payment of that pension will transfer to the Scottish Government.

And the predictable manner of response from the SNP - a la Guardian analysis

http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/feb/browns-pension-scares-lack-all-credibility

Reading this thread is quite amusing, you could be forgiven for being slightly suspicious that the English contingent is more than a little worried about loosing it's status as a superpowers lapdog.

News for you, the break up of the colonial entity that is The UK of GB and NI, is quite appealing! 😀

Apologies THM, I came on too strong above.

It was pleasant to see on the STV news the other night a bloke from the Scottish film industry ranting and raving about how disgusting it was that Pinewood is opening a new studio in Wales and not Scotland. Jesus get over yourself Scotland doesn't have divine right to companies just because it's Scotland.

I heard about, With all this talk about NI and Game of Thrones I think a lot of homegrown filming will start heading over there.

ust for a couple of pages shall we say if we are to eligible and what that vote will be.

Not eligible, Not voting. 🙁

but I hate tories and its a good way of getting free from that shower.

I think its a shame none of the main political parties have a decent leader anyone can believe in. Not really a fan of AS but he does seem to be doing a better job at fighting his corner and doing a better job than Dave/Nick or the Millibrand ever could.

my 2p

I personally think a something like a Crown Dependance would be in the best interests of all. Scotland separates from Westminster but still has its ties/current trade links to the UK.

You're not quite sure?

I've never been absolutely certain about anything in my life, and I don't plan to start now 😉

Eligible to vote and will vote yes

duckman - Member
Apologies THM, I came on too strong above.

Nae probs pal - it's generally fun!!!

Not retiring, I am not that old, but working and educating second son!

What went wrong with the first son? 8)

He will have graduated already. But thanks for the concern 😉

I'll tell you, honestly, I will love it if we vote yes. Love it.

Has anyone mentioned David Bowie yet?

Or Billy

Has anyone mentioned David Bowie yet?

I heard he said "Scotland, please stay with us"

I wonder if his flat in New York has enough space for 5 million Scots to bunk up?

yes my thoughts exactly ...doubt it will stop Mr Connery from preaching though from Spain???? not sure where these days

David Bowie has now issued an urgent press release:

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Reading this thread is quite amusing, you could be forgiven for being slightly suspicious that the English contingent is more than a little worried about loosing it's status as a superpowers lapdog.

You really think it will make any difference at all?

footflaps - Member
Reading this thread is quite amusing, you could be forgiven for being slightly suspicious that the English contingent is more than a little worried about loosing it's status as a superpowers lapdog.
You really think it will make any difference at all?

zippykona - Member

Has anyone mentioned David Bowie yet?

Sounds like a few people have on social media, according to the torygraph 😆

Edit: Just had a look and Andrew Neil taking a fair amount of stick on twitter over it as well. Social media is great for exposing obnoxious morons. 😆

You really think it will make any difference at all?

Well if the local golf resort does declare independence, it could be harder to attract the upper echelons to London.

Social media is great for exposing obnoxious morons

My absence from Twotter is justified

Someone on twitter made the claim that Scotland was both bigger & richer than the UK, but would not offer evidence when asked.
So I'll throw it out here, is that claim correct?
I admit I'm sceptical, Scotland's population is 8.6% of the UK's, ive read on a BBC report that Scotland's economy is approx 1/10th of the UK's economy & Scotland is actually smaller than England in acreage according to another been article.

So does that claim stand up?

I've seen a comparison doing the rounds comparing Scotland's economic area with Germany's. Conveniently not accounting for land productivity.

I'd guess by bigger, they'd be including sea?

I don't know, it is quite a claim so thought I'd ask the hive mind!

Maybe.

By bigger including fishing area.

By richer, working from GDP per capita.

@muddy - its all about the oil, if Scotland gets it all/most things look fairly rosey. If not they don't. Trying to make a favourable comparison between Scotland and Germany is quite laughable, for a while Germany was the worlds number 1 exporter (china makes lots of cheap stuff, Germany lots of high value).

I thought the oil/gas was a done deal in the devolution agreement?

Oil 95% Scots/5% UK
Gas 95% UK/5% Scots

According to the beeb Scotland is the 3rd most productive region of the UK..

So who will be eligible for a Scottish passport?
Is it anyone on the council tax bill?
What about displaced Scots?
Can we expect an influx of Fijians and Samoans who are a bit better at rugby than the locals?

That would include Otley's vets team then!

http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future

Rene59, that is clear and simple to understand.
If only all the questions were answered that well.

its all about the oil, if Scotland gets it all/most things look fairly rosey.

Hmm, I think fairly rosy is a bit of an exaggeration, it would have been true in the 1980's but more recently, even with a geographic share of Oil revenues, the sums come out much more marginal

The IFS did a fairly extensive report

Rene59, that is clear and simple to understand.

"For example, citizenship by descent will be available to those who have a parent or grandparent who qualifies for Scottish citizenship" - that goes one generation beyond existing UK law and doesn't seem to require either the parent or the grandparent to have held UK citizenship or have had any significant connection with the UK or Scotland. (Obviously they could not have had Scottish citizenship as it doesn't exist). You could have vast numbers of Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, Saffas etc showing up and asserting a claim to Scottish citizenship purely to get access to the UK and/or EU

- "Those who have a demonstrable connection to Scotland and have spent at least ten years living here at some stage, whether as a child or an adult, will also have the opportunity to apply for citizenship." This is also a terrible idea. Why should someone doesn't necessarily have an ongoing connection to the UK or Scotland AND wouldn't be eligible for citizenship by descent be offered Scottish citizenship?

Of course, just because those things are now Scottish government proposals for post-independence law doesn't mean they will happen.

I also anticipate a bit of anxiety when people realise that one of the costs of statehood is dealing with refugees, asylum seekers and unlawful immigrants - Scotland will be in a position where most of those people arrive via the unprotected land border from the UK.

I personally think a something like a Crown Dependance would be in the best interests of all. Scotland separates from Westminster but still has its ties/current trade links to the UK.

Besides, no trade access to the EU would make iScotland unviable and if iScotland had trade access to the EU it would have trade access to the UK as part of the EU anyway.

Survation talk about their latest poll.

http://survation.com/2014/02/a-note-on-methodology-for-our-recent-scottish-poll/

Crown dependency status is quite complex

the Channel islands are not part of the UK or EC customs area for most goods so VAT rules apply to import and export, however the IOM is inside the UK VAT area so they don't, at the same time EU freedom of movement rules don't apply to all CI residents, but those with familial links to the UK get full travel rights (however no passport needed for UK travel due to being within the common travel area)

In addition, the crown dependencies are bound by some EU rules, and not by others, and on other international treaties they are bound by their links with the UK on some, and not others.

proper legal and regulatory minefield - for example, the IOM had laws on radio piracy enforced on them by UK government in the sixties, so its a little bit 'when is independence not real independence?'

Konnabunny the quote states that these other people will be able to apply for citizenship, it doesn't say anywhere that they will be guaranteed. I am sure there will be other additional qualification criteria.

Not really. It's based on the idea that smaller groups are generally better than large groups.

That's why I put in my caveat at the end. Small countries are generally simpler in terms of bureaucracy, there are fewer layers of government needed. That, I think, is a good thing.

while i generally sympathise with your position, the scottish and welsh assemblies, and their implied english assembly ( which we don't have ) adds a layer of politician that is simply unrequired by the UK, as i put forward about 8 pages ago.
😉

Hence we get rid of the top layer by becoming independent 😉

Oh, and the first link that popped up re. Scotland putting more into the union than we get back:

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/breaking-news-9-3-is-a-smaller-number-than-9-9-indyref/

Other sources of the same data are available.

except, as ultimately it will all be about the money, you'll either be in thrall to the EU, or the remainder of the UK, without any significant voice whichever way it goes. Good luck!

Oh, and the first link that popped up re. Scotland putting more into the union than we get back:

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/breaking-news-9-3-is-a-smaller-number-than-9-9-indyref/

Other sources of the same data are available.

That website you like to keep citing is ludicrously one-sided.

misleading and disingenuous selectivity of facts and figures

Hmmmm....

Try this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16477990

The only sensible answer is 'it depends how you look at it'.

Either way the amount of 'subsidy' either way is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things so it's a bit pathetic for either side to keep banging on about it.

I agree - however it's a common assertion that the UK (often specifically England) subsidises Scotland - the Barnett formula and the higher public spending in Scotland is given as evidence that Scotland is subsidised.

The raw data, if you don't like that article: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2012/03/9525

Still trying to tell us its a bad idea. You could be forgiven for thinking there might be some worth in Scotland after all. I thinks some of you protest too much! 😆