[Closed] Osbourne says no to currency union.

[pantomime voice] oh yes it does 😛

JOKE - not a serious point laugh or ignore

+1 or in some way more patriotic. Gullible, possibly, more patriotic, hogwash

grum - Member

it's the constant attempts to imply that essentially Yes voters are better people than No voters that gets extremely tedious.

Of course, the constant assertions that voters are easily deceived, just following their hearts and ignoring logic while shouting FREEDOM, that it's all about hatred of the English, that we "haven't thought this through", that two and a half million people are going to vote Yes but really just want devo max, etc have remained fresh and entertaining throughout.

[pantomime voice] oh yes it does

JOKE - not a serious point laugh or ignore

Feel the wrath of my offendednessness 😈

Northwind - Member
...the constant assertions that no voters are.....

Or that we point that you are so pissed (already) that you can't spell YES. 😉 (saved for posterity after the edit)

Might explain the earlier post though

Bloody hell ben, your levels of disgust and hatred for the union (anyone not scottish) are really quite unpleasant. No wonder a lot of no voters are keeping quiet in scotland.
Are you going to set up your own colony of diminished scotland if the vote goes against you?

I think he's just a kid so I wouldn't get too upset

Courtesy of Wyatt Wendels, of Planet Rock fame...

Spare a thought for The Proclaimers
If Scotland gets it's independence they won't be able to walk 500 miles anymore.

I think he's just a kid so I wouldn't get too upset

Pretty sure he's a grown up that makes weird looking bikes.

I'll wrap up my thoughts on the referendum here:

muddydwarf - Member
I'm no fan of Cameron, but why should he resign?
He has arranged a referendum and has promised to abide by the result - what is wrong with that?...

Regardless of the result, and despite my contempt for the way the No campaign has been conducted, I will always give Cameron credit for allowing us to have a democratic vote on the future of our country.

brooess - Member
Seems to me no-one wins out of this whole sorry mess:
Yes - half of Scotland pissed off with the other half, rUK pissed off with half of Scotland
No - half of Scotland pissed off with the other half and continued 'pressing on' by the SNP for another round of the whole charade in a year's time, and dragging out the resentment...

I think you are a victim of media bullshit. I don't know anyone who is going to be bearing ill will to their neighbours whichever way it goes. The lack of antagonism has been pointed out several times and this is backed up by the letter the police chiefs have issued chiding the press for trying to whip up strife where there is none. Tomorrow there will be the odd bampot (probably drunk) on either side who will do something, but you'll only hear it if it is a Yes supporter.

Earlier in the thread, there was mention of the queen's part. I'm biased, and you'll probably have guessed I'm a republican, but I think her behaviour has been exemplary. Think carefully is good advice, and whichever way you vote, it's better that you have carefully thought it over.

I expect a win tomorrow, but if it is a No, I'll be at a No party getting the piss ripped out of me. (And you think you lot are a tough crowd 🙂 )

The consolation if it is a No win, is that we now have an incredible percentage of the Scots actively involved in the political process. This can only be good.

Politics won't be the same again in Scotland.

bencooper
But No voters have been incredibly badly represented by the Better Together campaign

I agree with you on that.

I expect a win tomorrow, but if it is a No, I'll be at a No party getting the piss ripped out of me. (And you think you lot are a tough crowd )

But epic, he who laughs last....

With a NO, you win. Why? You get the result (in reality) you all secretly want. A YES, you don't. The ultimate irony of the whole episode.

teamhurtmore - Member

(saved for posterity after the edit)

Well you know, with all these promises of more power and more money in the last week or so it's got a bit harder to tell the two apart 😉

epicyclo
I expect a win tomorrow, but if it is a No, I'll be at a No party getting the piss ripped out of me. (And you think you lot are a tough crowd  )

The consolation if it is a No win, is that we now have an incredible percentage of the Scots actively involved in the political process. This can only be good.

Politics won't be the same again in Scotland.

+1. (I never thought I would be in agreement)

Of course, the constant assertions that voters are easily deceived, just following their hearts and ignoring logic while shouting FREEDOM, that it's all about hatred of the English, that we "haven't thought this through", that two and a half million people are going to vote Yes but really just want devo max, etc have remained fresh and entertaining throughout.

Not really the same as a generalised view that one side is morally superior to the other though.

of course it is different when your side is doing the insulting rather than being insulted - well said

of course it is different when your side is doing the insulting rather than being insulted - well said

🙄

As persuasive as your original explanation and just as well argued
Be serious Grum, both sides have been insulted and insulted and neither side is the "better" or more noble insulter.

The evidence is on pretty much every page of this thread.

You get the result (in reality) you all secretly want

The vote hasn't even happened yet and we all ready have Tories threatening to scupper any plans for more devolution, never mind the fact that none of the 3 main parties could even agree on what extra powers we should get.

I'd be very surprised if Scotland actually gets the extra powers that you seem to think we all actually want to much.

Well on the basis of one rogue (?) poll they panicked and started making stupid suggestions that make a mockery of the democratic balance in the UK, so for a change good for the Tory backbenchers. The No campaign should have simply laid things out clearly from the start and left yS to condemn themselves out of their own mouths. Instead we have to find out the hard way.

Anyway - hats of to Ben for the incredible enduring optimism and hilarious posts. Despite getting the wrong end of the stick ( 😉 ) the star of the thread. Bravo mon brave!

As persuasive as your original explanation and just as well argued
Be serious Grum, both sides have been insulted and insulted and neither side is the "better" or more noble insulter.

The evidence is on pretty much every page of this thread.

Yes there have been insults on both sides - but I don't recall any No supporters persistently adopting the tone of moral superiority that bencooper does. Or complaining incessantly about bias and insults while displaying plenty of both.

Interesting that piemonster agrees - despite not having a 'side'.

Frankly the reason I focus on bencooper's posts is because I expected better from him. Slightly worrying to see what happens to otherwise seemingly sensible people on such an emotive issue.

If Scotland votes No, and If extra powers are offered to Scotland then it should only be done on the condition that the same powers are offered to the rest of the UK.

was this done before if so sorry.
[img] [/img]

I think he's just a kid so I wouldn't get too upset

That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me all week 😉

(I'm 37, by the way)

The honest answer is we're all keyboard warriors. In real life I had a good chat with a No-voting friend earlier, and we both wished each other good luck. Neither of us have seen any examples of rudeness, insults or bitterness from either side, this whole campaign has been remarkably civilised on both sides.

I don't recall any No supporters persistently adopting the tone of moral superiority that bencooper does

Neither do I - but I didn't realise that saying Nazi salutes were bad is an example of moral superiority. I don't think the Yes side is morally superior at all, we just have a different vision for this country, just as we think Scotland is different to the UK. Different, not superior.

Anyway, what it said about No voters being very badly served by Better Together. Most No voters I know are old-style Labour people, people who would probably happily use the word Socialist, and think that New Labour stole their party. They think we should stay in the Union because a working-class person in Glasgow has more in common with a working-class person in Manchester than they do with a middle-class person in Edinburgh. It's a view I can see a strong argument for.

The problem is that also leads to the inevitable conclusion that all the main political parties need to be swept away and a new better system of government installed. Which would be great, I'd vote for that. Problem is that those main political parties are backing Better Together, so there's no way they can use those views.

Interesting that piemonster agrees - despite not having a 'side'.

There are plenty of examples of posts being made painting the opposite camp in an unfair bad light. I may even have done it myself. Ben is not the worst offender, but he's the most consistent for it.

I think the Panzer Wagon Bread maker was the worst that comes to mind. At a wild guess.

I do have a side, but it's nothing to do with Scotland. Scotland's a coincidence.

Neither do I - but I didn't realise that saying Nazi salutes were bad is an example of moral superiority.

'So this is the Yes crowd in George Square a couple of hours ago:
And this is the No crowd:
Yes, he is doing what you think he's doing.'

You were quite clearly making a generalisation there about No supporters - there's really no other way to read that post. And that's far from the only example.

I don't think the Yes side is morally superior at all

That's the theme of pretty much all of your posts on here.

There are plenty of examples of posts being made painting the opposite camp in an unfair bad light. I may even have done it myself. Ben is not the worst offender, but he's the most consistent for it.

Yup and I've seen more extreme examples from No supporters on here, some of whom just come across as idiots - but as I said it's the constant repetition of it from someone who had previously seemed quite reasonable that winds me up.

It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for selfish reasons, and vote Yes for altruistic ones.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/osbourne-says-no-to-currency-union/page/193

That's the theme of pretty much all of your posts on here.

I'm sorry you see it that way, it's certainly not intended.

Final poll that doesn't count

Ipsos Moron - Yes 48% No 52%

Am I the only one who is slightly cynical of the number of people on both sides who are being quoted on the BBC's live feed saying they gave swapped at the last minute? I think I'll try it here.

I genuinely wanted Alex Salmond to have my babies, but then No's point about who would get our embassies made me see the light about 3 hours ago. I'm VOTING NO!!!!

Polls are certainly pretty consistent and have been for a week ( apart from the one panic inducing rogue)

All these polls converging on basically the same result within the margins of error - does that mean they're all pretty accurate, or just that no pollster wants to stick their neck out?

YouGov, for The Sun and The Times: Yes 48%, No 52%.
Survation, for the Daily Record: Yes 47%, No 53%.
The results are excluding don't knows, which were 6% in the YouGov poll, and 9% with Survation.

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome

I'm sorry you see it that way, it's certainly not intended.

Not just me that sees it that way, clearly.

It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for selfish reasons, and vote Yes for altruistic ones.

Heh. 🙂

Am I the only one who is slightly cynical of the number of people on both sides who are being quoted on the BBC's live feed saying they gave swapped at the last minute?

Yes, I don't know anyone who's changed their mind. People are generally really bad at changing their minds about anything, even when they're blatantly wrong (stop it 😉 )

I honestly can't tell if it's going to be a very, very close result, or 60/40 one way or the other.

It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for selfish reasons, and vote Yes for altruistic ones

Yeah, I did say that, that wasn't very polite. I should perhaps have emphasised the "general" bit, I certainly don't think that applies to all on either side. But. Look at the last posters from the campaigns - the No poster is about saving "Your pay, your pension, your pound", the Yes poster is about doing it for future generations.

So what I said was an impolite overgeneralisation, but I think it does cover quite a bit of the campaigns' output.

344 pages of pish

345 if I've got anything to do with it

344 pages of pish

Yep 😀

Bloody hell ben, your levels of disgust and hatred for the union (anyone not scottish) are really quite unpleasant.

Pretty sure it was Ben who rubbished my only post on here in a slightly patronising way, so I'd have to agree with some of the above posts I'm afraid.

Kona bunny please feel free to come up with whatever version of reality suits you. But please try to use a slightly higher level of intelligence when you post.

(I'm 37, by the way)

Ha, you come across much younger than that

grum - Member

Yes there have been insults on both sides - but I don't recall any No supporters persistently adopting the tone of moral superiority that bencooper does

And I don't recall any No supporters being accused of being racists. <thing the other side does> is definitely worse than <thing my side does>.

Ha, you come across much younger than that

I'm just not worn down by cynicism and ennui.