[Closed] Osbourne says no to currency union.

didn't think gordon had this in him:

He always had it in him and this level of passion about the NHS isn't new. The only new thing is Murdoch has stopped his cronies printing
shit about him in an attempt to ensure that the tories get in.

Ironry is CMD hates him and has done everything in his power to ruin his reputation, however Gordon Brown is working on saving CMD from the humilation of being the Prime Minister at the helm when the Union started to break up.

It's going to be really interesting to watch what happens if there's a yes vote. It could all be fine and dandy. But if the no's are even only 50% right, it has the potential to be the most horrible car crash.

EDIT: just tiny things for example. What will happen to the dreaded Cumbernauld HMRC office (about 1000 people employed there). They will all presumably be offered the choice of moving south, some will be kept on by the Scottish government (presumably in proportion, so about a tenth) and the rest will be unemployed. And there are probably thousands of things like this.

I wonder, would Gordon Brown end up standing for MSP?
Could end up as First Minister...

I wonder, would Gordon Brown end up standing for MSP?
Could end up as First Minister...

@richc, I don't think CMD hates GB personally but as chancellor for 10 years who oversaw the huge expansion of UK bank credit and the failure to regulate that growth and then as PM encouraged Lloyds to buy Halifax-Bank of Scotland in order to save them from bankruptcy (I assume due to the large numbers of Scottish and Northern based Labour voting employees) a transaction which subsequently nearly destroyed what had been a very successful bank I think Gordon ruined his own reputation. He also famously announced economic boom and bust as over - whoops !

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/17/shetland-may-reconsider-place-scotland-yes-vote-alistair-carmichael ]Shetlands again[/url]

Could 'Westminster' start stirring it in event of a Yes?

Oil-rich Shetland may want to reconsider whether it stays part of an independent Scotland in the event of a yes vote, the Scotland secretary, Alistair Carmichael, has said.

In an interview with the Guardian, Carmichael said if the islands were to vote strongly no but the Scottish national vote was a narrow yes, then a "conversation about Shetland's position and the options that might be open to it" would begin.

The Liberal Democrat MP, who represents Orkney and Shetland in Westminster and has been secretary of state for Scotland in the coalition government since last October, said those options might include the islands modelling themselves on the Isle of Man, which is a self-governing crown dependency, or on the Faroe Islands, which are an autonomous country within the Danish realm.

Asked if he was suggesting that Alex Salmond should not necessarily take for granted that oilfields off Shetland will belong to Scotland in the event of a yes vote, he said: "That would be one of the things that we would want to discuss. I wouldn't like to predict at this stage where the discussions would go."

His comments were echoed by Tavish Scott, Shetland's MSP, who when asked whether Shetland would have to obey the will of Scotland if it voted yes, said: "Will it now? We'll have to look at our options. We're not going to be told what to do by Alex Salmond."

The option of becoming a crown dependency was "something we will look at", Scott said, though he said he ruled out considering full independence for the islands.

The island archipelago, situated more than 100 miles north of mainland Scotland, has traditionally voted strongly against Scottish independence, in part because of its distinctive history: it was part of Norway until the 15th century and is closer to that country's west coast than Edinburgh – in part because the oil industry has made it rich without particular assistance from Edinburgh.

Sullom Voe oil and gas terminal, in the north-west of the island group, is one of the largest in Europe, and handles production from more than two-dozen oilfields in the east Shetland Basin, between Shetland and Norway.

The Wee Blue Book, a widely distributed manifesto for the pro-independence campaign, states that Orkney and Shetland are "legally part of Scotland, and no more entitled to their own 'local' referendum result than Falkirk or Peterhead or Sauciehall Street".

Carmichael said those comments showed no understanding of "Shetland's historic and current political and cultural distinctiveness, and it just demonstrates the lack of respect and tolerance that there is among nationalists for community self-determination".

He said: "I don't want to suggest there's an element of threat here because that's not what this is about. But if the community wants to have a conversation about its position within Scotland and within the UK then we are entitled to do that. What I'm saying to people is: recognise that in this circumstance we might want to have that conversation for ourselves."

I don't like Gordon one bit, but its bloody good to see him speaking with passion again, something that never really came about as Chancellor or PM - its easy to see how he rose to become a proper political bruiser.

Cracking speech.
(Johann Lamont sat behind him thinking "That's my new boss")

If it's a 'No', what will the headlines be: 'Gordon Brown - The Man Who Saved the Union'?

That Shetland thing could lead to a massive car crash for Scotland in the event of a Yes vote... at the very least, I hope the SNP has a contingency plan in place

Good to see which side has ended the whole 8888fest with a negative message today. Tired of lies at last? Now just yS negatively. The mirror doesn't lie.

Fortunately managed to avoid the web/media today.

D- day arrives. What now for a fun thread? Have to go back to being serious now!!!

Duty calls tomorrow. Ladies of Scoltand lead the way. In the privacy of the booth remember the wise counsel of EIIR. Think hard about what you are voting for - it may not be what you think or expect, but this is serious. Kids games are over, this is real.

51/49 - unless the silent majority are really canny then 60/40.

Back to boring bike threads next.

What happens to Salmond if Scotland votes to stay in the Union?

at the very least, I hope the SNP has a contingency plan in place

Didn't AS say he admired Putin? Contingency plan should be fairly obvious given that....

Didn't AS say he admired Putin? Contingency plan should be fairly obvious given that....

Dave, one of our submarines is missing!

(Warning, lots and lots of sweariness!)

A mate from Oz sent me this. Apparently it's circulating there amongst the ABE fraternity.

[i]If Scotland gains its independence in the forthcoming referendum, the remainder of the United Kingdom will be known as the "Former United Kingdom" ...…. or FUK.

In a bid to discourage the Scots from voting 'yes' in the referendum, The Government have now begun to campaign with the slogan "Vote NO - for FUK's sake."

They feel the Scottish voters will be able to relate to this.[/i]

😆

Probably right tbh

brooess

What happens to Salmond if Scotland votes to stay in the Union?

AS is secure as first minister/SNP leader whatever happens CMD is the one who really needs to worry as a yes vote will be his ending.

I'm no fan of Cameron, but why should he resign?
He has arranged a referendum and has promised to abide by the result - what is wrong with that?
Ive not heard any voices other than those of the loony fringe of the Tory party calling for him to go.

Has this whole thing just been a massive great bluff by Salmond to get the devo-max he always believed was best for Scotland?

As an economist, he must have done some sums and realised a lot of what the markets and outside business interests are saying about the implications for an independent Scotland could well come to pass ie: worse rather than better.

CMD wouldn't give him devo-max so Salmond pretended to go all out for full independence whilst deliberately not backing up his assertions with data because he knows that in general Scots are too canny and have too much commonsense to believe his nationalist assertions unless there were some facts to back them up...

In the meantime he guessed that close polls would send Westminster into a mad panic and give him on a plate what they'd previously refused him?

It's a hell of a gamble!

I'm no fan of Cameron, but why should he resign?

The Conservative Party, colloquially referred to as the Tory Party or the Tories, is a centre-right political party in the United Kingdom that states that it espouses the philosophies of conservatism and British unionism.

He cost them the country basically. A person of principle [ say 30 years ago in politics when we had them- applies to all sides] would resign at loosing a vote of this magnitude.
I am surprised more has not been made of it tbh to garner votes. Double whammy 😀
I may be a wee bit biased in the last bit there but he wont survive if it is a yes vote.

meh, you can all have your say now...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.com.redemptionmedia.scotornot

So this is the Yes crowd in George Square a couple of hours ago:

[img] [/img]

And this is the No crowd:

[img] [/img]

Yes, he is doing what you think he's doing.

I just have a fear now that either way the vote goes bloody UKIP is going to make a big deal of it.
If they vote yes it will be the fault of the government, if they vote no and get to keep the Barnett formula and get Devo Max, then UKIP will go nuts about the rest of the UK selling out, and a lot of people will agree
I do think that the Extra subsidy and devo max is going to cause massive issues if the vote goes no. Probably a massive parlimentary rebellion.

I do think that the Extra subsidy and devo max is going to cause massive issues if the vote goes no. Probably a massive parlimentary rebellion.

Cheap shot Ben. There are a few nutters on both sides.

Indeed - and I think there are many a no voter who is hiding (with good reason) the last few days.

Seems to me no-one wins out of this whole sorry mess:
Yes - half of Scotland pissed off with the other half, rUK pissed off with half of Scotland
No - half of Scotland pissed off with the other half and continued 'pressing on' by the SNP for another round of the whole charade in a year's time, and dragging out the resentment...

Joy

Wow, that was some oration by Brown, best by far, by anyone in the campaign

Didn't see any autocue either, could be mistaken on that though.

Cheap shot Ben. There are a few nutters on both sides.

So where's the official No rally, then? If the No side had an ounce of sense, they'd be rushing to disown this lot and show a huge number of friendly, happy No supporters. But they don't.

Bloody hell ben, your levels of disgust and hatred for the union (anyone not scottish) are really quite unpleasant. No wonder a lot of no voters are keeping quiet in scotland.
Are you going to set up your own colony of diminished scotland if the vote goes against you?

So where's the official No rally, then? If the No side had an ounce of sense, they'd be rushing to disown this lot and show a huge number of friendly, happy No supporters. But they don't.

So what is your point ben. That this is the typical No side?

I have a review/catch up with my boss on Friday at 10am (she an ardent 'Yes' complete with en-masse stickered house and car).
I suspect it's going to be short....

Bloody hell ben, your levels of disgust and hatred for the union (anyone not scottish) are really quite unpleasant

Wow. Where have I said I have disgust or hatred for anything or anyone? I have a lot of affection for the Union, I love listening to Radio 4 and think the British Isles are very close culturally, and we have a good shared sense of humour which is important. I just don't think any of us is well served by Westminster, and I think Scotland has a chance for fundamental change for the better.

Or are you one of those people who thinks any criticism of the Westminster government is anti-English? If so, go to bed, please.

So what is your point ben. That this is the typical No side?

No, I know from my own No-voting friends that this is most definitely not typical of No voters. But No voters have been incredibly badly represented by the Better Together campaign (I have my suspicions why), and idiots sensed the vacuum.

Not in the slightest, I despise the westminster government in its entirety.
If you cannot see how your own views come across then I think you are well surrounded by your colleagues in the yes campaign.
I am sure that you can be aware that you do not have to explicitly describe your dislike of something to make it incredibly obvious.
Just making an observation, but clearly you do not appreciate an opposing version of your world view.
Have a good day tomorrow however it goes.

So this is the Yes crowd in George Square a couple of hours ago:

And this is the No crowd:

Yes, he is doing what you think he's doing.

Yet again this is the kind of selective BS that you'd never shut up complaining about if it was being done the other way round. You really don't do yourself or the Yes campaign any favours with posts like this.

Ben does not hate the Union nor the English anymore than THM hates the Scottish.
They have political views which are not a result of racism which sums up everyone on here.

It is not the wisest post we will see on here [ Bens that is] but not worth making a big deal over.

Just making an observation, but clearly you do not appreciate an opposing version of your world view.

Sheesh, stop being so melodramatic - I'm trying to have a grown up discussion here 😉

I'm happy with opposing views, I like them - that's why I like having discussions on here.

Junkyard - Where did I say it was racism?
The cretins in the pic above are far worse.
Was just pointing out how I percieved some of the rhetoric comes across on here.
Sorry but if you don't like it then bad luck

Sums it up well. YS colours come out load and clear in the end!!! Classy. Is that what H-W represents???

Brooes - previous post lost on the train. AS doesn't worry if there's a NO. He can carry on spouting sh1te and blaming the English. His real concern is a YES. That's the point the Emperor's New Clothes will be fully exposed and he will be fully revealed for all to see.

Positives - level of actual engagement
negatives - a major debate framed by deceit, lies and BS

Everyone deserved so much better.

No, Ben is not a racist as far as I can tell. He has his legitimate views and puts them across well.
There is going to be enough recriminations and angst in the coming weeks whichever way the vote goes.

OK so he hatred for anyone not scottish but you were not suggesting racism
Fine as we were

Backs away from the thread and this little sidebar.
I dont want to get involved in this tbh

So where's the official No rally, then? If the No side had an ounce of sense, they'd be rushing to disown this lot and show a huge number of friendly, happy No supporters. But they don't.

I suspect that being told for the umpteenth time won't make any difference. But here goes anyway.

A large portion of no voters have keeping quiet and avoiding expressing their opinions. Quite often they wait for Yes voters to leave the area before actually discussing the referendum, if they discus it at all.

Even myself as a very marginal voter have only expressed my voting intention to one person in person, and only then because he contributes to this thread.

Your consistent habit of finding the worst examples of people that happen to disagree with you is unsettling at best.

Didn't realise the scottish were a race, but anyhow.
Good luck to everyone however the vote goes tomorrow.
I hope the union stays but it will work out however.

I'm happy with opposing views

I don't think anyone has a problem with you supporting the Yes campaign - it's the constant attempts to imply that essentially Yes voters are better people than No voters that gets extremely tedious.

I don't think anyone has a problem with you supporting the Yes campaign - it's the constant attempts to imply that essentially Yes voters are better people than No voters that gets extremely tedious.

+1 and adding an emoticon after someone pulls you up on it doesn't make it ok