[Closed] Osbourne says no to currency union.

(junky, see PM's)

I'm glad Ben has decided that due to location the Aircraft carriers are going to be iScotlands, he does know that its cash on delivery, right?

theres a reason why I changed from the Z-11

actually you're wrong on that, theres a reason why I changed from Z-11 and its got nothing whatsoever to do with that

I would ask but it not like you will say or it would be believed anyway...the boy who cried wolf eh

They're not likely to take that without migrating or rearranging their affairs, so you have to put more of the burden on the comfortably off.

ninfan - Member
I'm glad Ben has decided that due to location the Aircraft carriers are going to be iScotlands, he does know that its cash on delivery, right?

A bit like the UK govt's bank which is located in England?

Are you having a laff?
I can live with that if it means the ending of food banks for the very poor and the very vulnerable
You?

FWIW, Ben stated a while back that most people he knew were voting Yes and would happily take the hit if it meant a more equitable society. I'm the same as are my family, and we're all very average in terms of the amount of money we earn.

What if,
I am just saying what if.

It all goes tits up, would Scotland be able to rejoin the uk, and would the scots ever live it down.
And holding the UKs nuclear weapons to ransom would make, make Alex salmond, blofeld, and would he want "$1,000,000".

I don't think this is the thread for intelligent conversation, but

1) is anyone considering moving savings to English banks? Been considering this and noticed the scotsman covered it the other day http://www.scotsman.com/news/how-likely-would-run-on-banks-be-after-yes-vote-1-3511906

2) is now a stupid time to consider buying a house in Scotland?

3)How long would it be between referendum and independence in the event of a Yes vote?

If everyone moved there money into English banks would that not cause trouble.

Do you expect property prices to fall after the referendum if the yes vote goes through or indeed the no vote.

Someone else said 18 months was the target but did not think it achievable, if you google it there is an exact date penciled in for Independence Day.

No, not having a laugh.

I can't see the next 20-30% offering to take it.

I would quite like property prices to fall. Higher IR and uncertainty would help, so prospects might be promising. Stick higher taxes on that (in general and to compensate for lower corporate tax) and the timing could be perfect!

Higher inequality is a global trend that crosses governments and political systems. Good to know that in addition to every other fairy story, the DO can unilaterally solve that one. Is that what threatening the stability of the financial sector is all about?!? I get it know! A masterstroke.......

Bigjim, surely no one is suggesting a systems without a lender of last resort, that would be madness. Oh wait a minute....

What if,
I am just saying what if.

It all goes tits up, would Scotland be able to rejoin the uk, and would the scots ever live it down.

There's nothing to go "tits up" about. If Scotland wants to separate itself from the rest of the UK it is perfectly feasible for it to do so - why wouldn't it be ?

If what you mean is would the Scots be able to reverse their decision should the disadvantages of separation become apparent to them, then there is no chance at all of that imo. It will all be settled once and for all on 18 Sept, that's the whole point of the referendum.

And btw remember that if YS do win the vote next month that it is extremely unlikely that it will be by a huge overwhelming majority, so for that reason if separation proves to have a great deal of negative consequences there will also be a great deal of angry Scots.

Expressing that anger won't create an issue of having to "live it down", why should anyone not express their dissatisfaction with something that they have never supported ? It might be futile but other than that I can't see a problem.

I personally believe even the comfortably off are willing to pay a little more tax to stop their fellow citizens starving

The other public sector contracting thread going on at the moment perhaps illustrates a little of that. Certainly my time as a public sector FD and then negotiating contracts with public sector customers leads me to the conclusion that removal of waste and inefficiency could fund several major omissions from current government policy.

There is more to helping the poor than just taxing the wealthy more. It's about spending what you take in more sensibly. Happy for both to happen to create a more equal society. Also happy for those who wouldn't be happy doing this to piss off elsewhere using the dual nationality thing.

So Rene, your man is now pushing his Plan Ab (plan D to the rest of us) ie, sterlingisation that is no control over monetary policy and no lender if last resort (is this guy for real?). So tell me what happens to taxes and spending in a situation when you have a run a fiscal surplus in that environment. Clue it involves cutting spending and raising taxes - not quite what was on the yS menu was it, but very typical of the outright deceit demonstrated throughout the campaign yet again.

Now there are some radical Isaac going round including the ultra libertarian one of no lender of last resort is good for banking (blimey the SNP to the right of thatcher) but cutting spending to create a more equal society is a new one for many. This magic drawer of policies is really quite something.

Just a thought, if the Yes vote is 50.1% is that a huge win for Independence but if the No gets 50.1% is that so close we need another vote next month?

There won't be another vote next month no, that would be silly, but a no vote would not be the end of the independence movement.

I suspect if the vote was that close then no doubt someone would mount a legal challenge for a recount/re-vote either way.

Independence will happen eventually, I would prefer it to happen this opportunity though as I may not be around come the next one.

if we don't get currency union, we'll default on our debt,
if we don't get EU citizenship, we'll remove Europeans right to live here,
if we don't get EU membership, we'll ban EU fishing boats from passing through international waters

I don't think that anyone has ever said that we would default on our share of the debt if we don't get currency union - more that if we don't get our share of the assets we'll obviously not be taking a share of the liabilities - tell me how that would not be a fair stance to take.

If we don't get EU citizenship and are no longer part of the EU, then people who are here on the basis that they are EU citizens would no longer be residing in the EU, so they would need to find another mechanism to stay here.

I dont think anyone ever said that we would stop EU fishing boats from passing through international waters, we might stop them fishing in Scottish waters which would no longer be part of the EU though - tell me how that would be unfair.

Your comment was daft and ill thought out.

I don't think that anyone has ever said that we would default on our share of the debt if we don't get currency union

[url= http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-salmond-gives-debt-warning-1-3305302 ]The Scotsman thinks so[/url]

So does then DO more importantly but then again poor guy still confuses currencies and assets. Good job its not important. The Dep of Econ at scotlands finest Uni must be having kittens at how much he has forgotten

oldbloke -

“All the debt accrued up to the point of independence belongs legally to the Treasury, as they confirmed last month - and Scotland can’t default on debt that’s not legally ours. However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

That's not what it said at all. It said what I said it said.

THM - this referendum has got nothing to do with Alex Salmond. Scotland will be an independent country long after he is dead and gone.

So which part of that quote which talks about not taking debt unless we get Sterling (the white paper proposal for CU) supports your assertion?

The more I have read the more I have been convinced it will be no.
So thought about putting a small bet on.
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Don't think I will bother.

So Rene, your man is now pushing his Plan Ab (plan D to the rest of us) ie, sterlingisation that is no control over monetary policy and no lender if last resort (is this guy for real?). So tell me what happens to taxes and spending in a situation when you have a run a fiscal surplus in that environment. Clue it involves cutting spending and raising taxes - not quite what was on the yS menu was it, but very typical of the outright deceit demonstrated throughout the campaign yet again.

Now there are some radical Isaac going round including the ultra libertarian one of no lender of last resort is good for banking (blimey the SNP to the right of thatcher) but cutting spending to create a more equal society is a new one for many. This magic drawer of policies is really quite something.

I was going to type up a reply to your question, but to be honest I have no idea what you're saying here. I have no man. You are coming across more rabid by the day. I would suggest you take a break from this thread, but I don't think you would listen.

I have no idea what you do for a living, but if you are half as good at dishing out economic advice and advising on currency policy as your posts suggests you think you are, then I can only assume you operate somewhere at the top. Maybe advising the Government on policy, or working for one of the big financial institutions? Either way don't your employers want you back?

However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

There you go in triplicate just to give it a chance to sink in.

In simple terms it says we'll pay our debts if you pay yours.

So does then DO

All the debt accrued up to the point of independence belongs legally to the Treasury, as they confirmed last month - and Scotland can’t default on debt that’s not legally ours. However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

Do you have a direct quote [ including reference and context] where AS says they will walk away?
Everything I have seen is a threat as a negotiation position

Can you support your claim he has said they will walk away?
the position is assets and debts go hand in hand which is hardly a ludicrous negotiating position.

Whoops, Crawford Beveridge, Chair of the Fiscal Commission Working Group, seems to have blown the covers off!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11044798/Entirely-possible-Scotland-wont-share-pound-after-independence-Alex-Salmonds-top-economist-admits.html

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-alex-salmonds-currency-4076218

"People aren't rationale as we know. So it's entirely possible that we would get to the Yes and, because so many people have planned so much around the statements they have made in advance, they would say 'despite the fact this is going to be bad for England, we're not going to do it.'"

I do not disagree...anything is possible when you have squabbling politicians - well anything but mature exchange of ideas - as STW often proves 😉

Its probably not enough to convince THM nor stop him claiming it is a vanity project pfft facts

William Hill are giving odds THM makes no comment and goes on about economics instead 😉

Its interesting how the final arguments are shaping up, up here.

Basically the big issues going into the final stretch of the campaigns are; Better together brings it down to a single issue with the pound, yes Scotland counters with the destruction of the NHS. Both sides are pretty weak in the their defence to the respective attacks.

Quite interesting, obviously I'm heavily biased but the NHS seems the stronger argument to me, the NHS is ingrained in the public psyche of Scotland and the no camp can't get the yes camp to budge on the position that we will be using anything but the pound.

IMO its widely believed that the Westminster politicians are lying when it comes to the pound. And its almost universally accepted that the NHS will be privatised in England in the not too distant future.

Junkyard - lazarus

William Hill are giving odds THM makes no comment and goes on about economics instead

Well, as soon as he's admitted he was caught fibbing about election results I'm sure he'll get right on it (how many times has he accused other people of being deceitful since that post? One million?)

And its almost universally accepted that the NHS will be privatised in England in the not too distant future.

That's not really a Scottish issue, is it ?

IMO its widely believed that the Westminster politicians are lying when it comes to the pound.

I really doubt it, the rUK parties all know it would be electoral suicide in the rUK general election in 2015 to offer a currency union to the Scots who get a better deal out of the arrangement than the rUK. The likely relocation of much of the Scots financial sector into rUK should a CU not be negotiated would be extra bonus in terms of GDP and jobs. Whether it be voters in Bradford or Thanet or Merthyr Tydfil I don't see any driver for a soft deal for the Scots that the rUK essentially funds

ernie_lynch - Member
And its almost universally accepted that the NHS will be privatised in England in the not too distant future.
That's not really a Scottish issue, is it ?

That's not really a Scottish issue, is it ?

It is, in multiple ways:

http://burdzeyeview.wordpress.com/2014/08/18/why-voting-no-threatens-scotlands-nhs/

Wanman...who's words are at the top of the page. If they are AS 's no surprise. Yet again deliberately confusing matters. The currency is not an asset to be shared, never has been , never can be. That is simply a lie as despite what I said on the last page, he is a trained economist and DOES know the difference but prefers to lie to fool the people of Scotland.

As soon as he starts on that one and trying to confuse assets and debt then you know he has lost. Because that by definition is a basic deception. And judging from the above, people fall for it. As I said hundreds if pages ago it's the missing dollar tick that conjures use all the time. But in this case it is not a joke rather the leader of yS deliberately lying to everyone. Shameful.

Fortunately anyone can go to the BOE website and look at the balance sheet. Surprise, surprise currency is a liability along side borrowings. So the DO says we will only compensate for your liabilities if we can have your liabilities. Confused? That's exactly what he want you to be (yes, Rene do it for a living (and was taught by the same people who taught salmond) so helps to understand it and not be fooled by the DO)

NW nothing fibbing about the election results at all. The democratic deficit is another misrepresentation used by yS.

Plus, and this bit is just my opinion, when labour get back in up here. They'll just do what their leaders tell them what to do and bring holyrood policy as close to westministers as they can.

The likely relocation of much of the Scots financial sector into rUK should a CU not be negotiated would be extra bonus in terms of GDP and jobs.

Not seen the thing about Wall St banks making contingency plans to move from the UK to Ireland in case the UK leaves the EU? That's an order of magnitude bigger than banks maybe leaving Scotland.

Just spent half an hour watching ronnie Corbett on YouTube off the back of bens offering.

Forget the NHS, it is completely screwed.
Last time I called an ambulance for a friend who's hip had came out, he had to wait 2 hours in the ambulance outside the hospital to be processed.
And when he did get in the staff were handing out complaints forms begging people to fill them in as they could not cope.one doctor said they had fourteen ambulances qued up outside waiting to bring in people a few days before.

Then a few days later I heard a GP ring up LBC complaining he took his young son to A&E the night before and was disgusted that at least half the people attending should not be there but instead should see their GP.

To which the presenter said do you not think you are partially to blame because it can take weeks to get an appointment, you opted out of working weekends and won't do home visits.

To which he replied I could not possibly do home visits as I have over 2000 patients on my books, how could I visit all of them.
I never wanted to slap someone as much in my life.

You see on the news one day A&Es being closed down.
Then a couple of months later the goverment announcing that the A&Es are over subscribed and can't cope, and you find yourself shouting at the TV "no shit Sherlock".

If Scotland could provide a functioning NHS I would move there.

No Ben (links? *) but the Aussie head if the Clydesdale made his opinions well known in the FT today. Imagine running a bank without a lender of last resort. What does that do to your funding costs, and your mortgage costs? And this is what represents nirvana????

* so you are the boss of Citi or BoAML and you want to locate in London with a bank friendly regulation and vibrant capital markets or in Dublin? Hmmmmm, not a tough choice.

If Scotland could provide a functioning NHS I would move there.

We do. Every experience I've had with NHS Scotland has been outstanding.

Not seen the thing about Wall St banks making contingency plans to move from the UK to Ireland in case the UK leaves the EU?

Contingency planning? You mean having a 'plan B' in case things don't go the way you were hoping?

Thats a 'king radical concept isn't it? 😆

Ben, hats off to you mate. I love your posts!

Forget the NHS, it is completely screwed.

Not where I stay it's not and I hope we continue to keep it that way.

If Scotland could provide a functioning NHS I would move there.

Why not then? Just one of many good reasons to.