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nothing cheap, all pertinent and unanswered!
Aye calling him the DO and referring to the the 3 B over and over again is not cheap and it is academic levels of insight 😕
Are you going to call me a troll again and then say that is not cheap or playing the man? 😀
You mean there's some Yes supporters who are selfish ?
Probably. I can't think of anyone I've met who's voting Yes for selfish reasons. One person who's voting Yes because he thinks an independent Scotland would clamp down on immigration, that maybe counts as a selfish reason. He's also likely to be disappointed, but I'm not going to enlighten him 😉
I can't think of anyone I've met who's voting Yes for selfish reasons.
Maybe there aren't any selfish Yes supporters, have you thought of that ?
gets brew offers biscuits
Cmon Ben think about what you are saying here
When you ask a Yes voter, it's because they want a society that treats it's poorest citizens better, or one that doesn't wage wars or has nuclear weapons, or a society that's more welcoming to immigrants.
which is all great but there has still hasn't been any articulation of how independence would concretely assist in achieving any of that.
you say that your yes voter acquaintances want a society that doesn't wage wars, but is the Yes campaign proposing to withdraw from NATO, dissolve the military, end subsidies to arms companies, pursue a foreign policy of neutrality? no...it's saying that there shouldn't be any nuclear weapons in Scotland apart from the ones possessed by foreign militaries that Scotland isn't told about!
in other words - the same old airy fairy bollocks.
Cmon Ben think about what you are saying here
I'm just offering observations on the reasons people give for voting the way they do.
in other words - the same old airy fairy bollocks.
Yup, though that could apply equally to both sides - the clumsy lovebombing attempts are equally airy fairy.
the same old airy fairy bollocks
For a while now I've been struggling to think of the most appropriate description of the separatist argument, I think you might have hit the nail on the head there.
I'm just offering observations on the reasons people give for voting the way they do.
I think every person who votes tory is a self serving **** and I am not biased on this issue 😉
Nope, I'd say you're spot on there 😀
[quote=bencooper ]It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for [s]selfish[/s] real practical reasons, and vote Yes for [s]altruistic[/s] airy fairy ones.
[quote=bencooper ]One person who's voting Yes because he thinks an independent Scotland would clamp down on immigration, that maybe counts as a selfish reason. He's also likely to be disappointed, but I'm not going to enlighten him
You say "also". Is that as well as all the other Yes voters hoping for stuff?
I was gonna avoid posting on this thread, but did Konabunny just basically say that Scottish Independence won't achieve any of the things that bencooper said were its perceived benefits basically because it won't bring about world peace?
The differences between policies in Holyrood and Westminster all tend towards Scotland being a less selfish, more altruistic society, and should independence occur, Scotland will not have any nukes. Just because it's the first step in a long journey doesn't make it a pointless change!
did Konabunny just basically say that Scottish Independence won't achieve any of the things that bencooper said were its perceived benefits basically because it won't bring about world peace?
What Konabunny said was self-explanatory.
He said if you want a society that doesn't wage wars then the obvious steps to take is to withdraw from NATO, dissolve the military, end subsidies to arms companies, and pursue a foreign policy of neutrality. He points that because these are not the stated aims of Yes Scotland it makes the claim just meaningless hairy fairy bollocks.
I dont think you need to do all of those you just need to avoid invading countries/starting wars.
NATO is a more tricky proposition to be fair given the US considered 9/11 to be an attack on them.
NATO is a more tricky proposition
It completely undermines it. A foreign policy of neutrality as Ireland has would be the obvious alternative to joining NATO. If the aim isn't to wage wars then why apply to join NATO ?
And no, don't give the fairy bollocks suggesting that small countries who aren't in NATO risk being attacked.
did Konabunny just basically say that Scottish Independence won't achieve any of the things that bencooper said were its perceived benefits basically because it won't bring about world peace?
no.
cheers,
Danny B
Ben, in MTB Scotland's July edition there is also a survey that shows that yes voters really believe that 650bs make the trail come alive, whereas no voters are discerning enough to see through the BS. Quite appropriate really.
(But there was also a serious survey that showed a clear distinction along income lines)
Oh look, trying to portray No voters as bad people. That's never happened before.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a nice little picture of a No voter stealing candy from a small child. Doesn't actually need to be a no voter, just so long as someone on twitter says it is.
You can swap 'No voter' for 'Yes voter' if you like.
I'm sure somewhere, someone has done the same for the opposite camp.
The really disappointing thing about all this is just how piss poor and populist the politics is despite the importance. One of my main hopes of this referendum is a reinvigoration of the electorate to participate in the democratic process.
But the underlying quality of politicians is so piss poor that I don't see it lasting beyond a couple if elections regardless of the result. It's just the same ****er cheap shot, point scoring, self serving toss that we've been having for years.
****ers, by and large.
I seem to be settling into middle aged grumpiness quite well. 😀
I'm going for middle-aged saying-random-stuff-to-wind-people-up 😉
Hope the DO did not spend too much time looking at the economic announcements today - NS Oil and financial services ouch!
Probably too busy working out what he's going to do with his 10% share of the red arrows...
Obviously paint them blue and white 😀
And relocate them to Freedom City airbase
Obviously paint [s]them[/s] It blue and white
FTFY
It could be sponsored by a recruitment agency
I'm going for middle-aged saying-random-stuff-to-wind-people-up
Whereas the Edinburgh Defence is saying something you believe, getting pwned and then claiming you were just joking, the Strathclyde Defence is to preëmptively say you're joking, say something you believe...and then get pwned.
the [s]Strathclyde[/s] Freedom Defence is to preëmptively
FTFY!!
bencooper - MemberI'm going for middle-aged saying-random-stuff-to-wind-people-up
You must be disappointed, or are you under the impression that you have successfully wound people up? 🙂
wanmankylung - Member
Fortunately, the CEO of my pension provider will decamp S of the border if required.
What a strange thing to say. Given that very few businesses have indicated that they will move to rUK in the event of a yes vote (probably because it would involve much more expense than it would justify) the only sensible way for the CEO and his team to move south would be if they were no longer working for your pension provider.
Strange when strange things come true isn't it....
And you're pleased about this? I thought you were a man who thought a lot about economics.... That makes no economic sense at all. If I was you I'd be considering moving my pension to a place that is run by someone more savvy.
Security and returns are the most important parameters personally. I would be more worried if I worked at Standard Life and wanted to still live in lovely Edinburgh. As you will/should be aware the CEO has other v important things to consider (regulation, money etc) and no surprise at all that relocation considerations are high on the agenda. I would be dismayed if he wasn't making sensible plans. But you are not the only one to poo-poo such ideas, the DO did the same when Nish commented on this back in February. But the truth, they are planning for this exact eventuality.
100 Cheapside is quite a nice office though.
Still not such a stage thing to say after all, was it? 😉
Still no comment or statement from Standard Life saying where they will be based if Yes win. Not in The Scotsman or in the original article in The Huffington Post nor from the company itself. Are you Standard Life's new press officer Thm?
No - refer to my first comment on this
Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of [b]deceiving[/b] Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Interesting choice of verb - wonder why/where they got it from!!!
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister [b]is not being honest[/b] over what they say is [b]the most important issue[/b] in the independence debate.
Add two more to the list......honestly (excuse the irony) it gets more embarrassing by the day. Perhaps the DO will release plan D during the debate with darling. In the meantime.....
Ah, the debate with Darling, Eck thought we had forgotten that one...
Frit!
and in other news - seems the Catalans are getting twitchy at the prospect of a Scottish Yes vote -
I'm sure that will play well with the Spanish government when it comes to Scotlands EU plans (ps. we're still waiting to see that independent legal advice Alex!)
Slightly non-consensus view of the debate and the heebie jeebies also in the Torygraoh
Surely the DO can't screw that one up, it's only darling!
This from today's herald
"Standard Life not seeking London headquarters move
Published on 30 July 2014
Greig Cameron
STANDARD Life has denied reports that it is looking to purchase a flagship headquarters in London.
The insurer was said to be in talks over a deal for the 100 Cheapside building in the heart of London's financial district as it was planning to use the site as a base if the Scottish people voted for independence in the referendum.
While Standard Life would not be drawn on whether it is looking to buy the property as part of its investment activities it strongly refuted suggestions it was looking for a replacement for its existing Edinburgh headquarters.."
Perhaps Thm should reconsider.
"Strange when strange things come true isn't it....."
Or he has better sources!l it's pretty obvious what they need and will do - they are if nothing else prudent and canny.
Ah yes The Huffington Post 🙂
The what? The Scotsman merely confirmed my sources.
The Scotsman in turn got it's article from The Huffington Post. 🙂
😀
Or he has better sources!l it's pretty obvious what they need and will do - they are if nothing else prudent and canny.
Sorry - why exactly is it obvious, prudent, canny and needful to relocate the company from Edinburgh to London in the event of independence? Plenty of pension funds operating in the UK are owned and/or operated by non-UK companies.
never mind that here is the quote
A Standard Life spokesman said: "We cannot comment on individual deals as we manage a large portfolio of properties on behalf of our clients, but [b]we can confirm that we are not looking for a London-based HQ.[/b]"
How does that support THM's view
But you are not the only one to poo-poo such ideas, the DO did the same when Nish commented on this back in February. But the truth, they are planning for this exact eventuality.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/osbourne-says-no-to-currency-union/page/194#post-6193553
this is why you say I troll. You either have to accept you were wrong or call me names or ignore me
I wonder which you choose this time.