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Ireland's actually doing okay now, isn't it?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0703/628161-gdp/
But
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/uk-ireland-economy-idUKBREA2C0T520140313
And how much of any recovery is bounce back after a thorough arse kicking?
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/07/daily-chart-13?zid=295&ah=0bca374e65f2354d553956ea65f756e0
we have everything it takes for a Celtic Lion economy to take off in Scotland."
Aye, you're right, AS was the only one not to spot that a massive financial crisis was about to happen and it was only small celtic countries affected.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, eh?
Worrying about currency and the like is like obsessing over the bathroom tiles when you buy a new house. Important, sure, but not a deal breaker.
It's an order of magnitude more important than that. Economic and financial management is one of the most important roles of the modern state.
However, I admire your fundamentalist libertarian principles that say you should strip the state of as much power and responsibility as possible. I just think it's weird that you want [i]another [/i]state to step in and do the same job.
😀 😀
Yeah, I'm a contradiction.
That, and I trust the Europeans a lot more than I trust the Tories...
Ireland's actually doing okay now, isn't it?
Sadly not, severe negative equity problems and an economy that contracted by around 25% since 2007. Recovery/ confidence is extremely fragile
(Interestingly, the UK 'bailed out' Ireland at the height of the crisis, just like Osborne has said the UK wouldn't do for iScotland in future. As a major trading partner it wasn't in the UK's interests to see Ireland's economy disappear completely down the shitter)
According to the BBC, if Scotland leaves then people in the rest of the UK will live longer:
But if Scotland left the effect would only be a small statistical shift, with men gaining a potential extra 0.4 years (4.8 months) and women 0.3 years (3.6 months).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28192293
😀
Anyone want to explain basic statistics to them?
Ummmmm.........
"Anyone want to explain basic statistics to them?"
what do you think they have wrong?
It's a really weird article. The stats all seem to be correct, but they're talked about as if they would have a tangible effect, as if Scotland leaving would physically make men live a bit longer and make the rUK a bit more crowded.
Brave to show how little one knows on a public forum,
Are you claiming the Bank of england quote I referenced from them is wrong? I notice you were not brave enough to produce an actual quote from them [ nor reference your previous quote] nor provide any tangible fact that countered what they said. Thankfully you were "brave" and "charming" enough to insult me again as if this would counter a fact from the B of E.
Unfortunately for you your name calling is slightly less weighty or reasoned than the law and the actual view of the B of E.
I simply ignore trolls but happy to engage with anyone else
No one could accuse you of saying anything to me now could they THM and I am sure we can all agree it s true you are ignoring me 🙄
How could that statement be considered as true?
the troll is saying I said something that I didn't
it was a NOT even a quote from you it was from the Committee so you never said anything - another example of your accuracy here eh.
I simply choose to ignore this as well.
It is pretty clear that you have not ignored it nor me. Why would you say this ? All you are doing here is playing the man over and over and over again whilst somehow , without irony, claiming you are ignoring me. Amusing if somewhat at odds with the facts.
PS i missed the quote from the B of E saying they dont set interest rates independently I assume this was because you were ignoring me in all those posts 😉
what do you think they have wrong?
They say that men will be gaining 0.4 years and women 0.3, if Scotland becomes independent. Of course people in the rest of the won't suddenly live longer.
The stats all seem to be correct, but they're talked about as if they would have a tangible effect
Exactly. Very bad use of statistics.
Ben this is like nats saying Scotland will be one of the richest nations in the world based on GDP per capita. After independence you won't wake up with more money in the bank. Your money might be worth less or more depending on currency exchange rates though. If you ever decide what currency you are going to use 😉
Ben this is like nats saying Scotland will be one of the richest nations in the world based on GDP per capita.
Sshhhh make sure you don't mention GNI, just stick to GDP. Some xenophobic sensitivities about ownership of productive capacity around.
Because, and we've gone over this many times, the currency union wasn't made up by Alex Salmond when he was sitting on the lav, it was what an independent group of experts including a couple of a novel prize winners agreed was the best option, after a lot of of analysis.No country has complete control of the levers of its economy, but at the moment we have none - with independence we can choose things like this,[b] including choosing who we have unions, political or economic, with.[/b]
rUK also has a choice, no major party in rUK is going to go to the polls in 2015 offering up currency Union and the associated loss of rUK sovereignty and the liabilities with the unbalanced financial sector in a post independence Scotland
The stats all seem to be correct, but they're talked about as if they would have a tangible effect, as if Scotland leaving would physically make men live a bit longer
maybe rUK men will live longer without all of this referendum grief
Quick note to say I wish all those involved in the Commonwealth Games directly or indirectly best of luck for what I am sure will be a wonderful occasion for Glasgow and for Scotland.
maybe rUK men will live longer without all of this referendum grief
Is it not because there life is easier without carrying Scotland?
Salmond carries on straight up the middle with bags of smoke, reiterating that they will demand a currency union or walk away from the debt and that the BOE and Sterling are assets.
Do you know what, ****it, I'm switching allegiance, I want them to win now, just to see it all fall apart
In other news - heres the latest attempt to convince us
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Not for the first time, the DO is incorrect on both counts. Good job neither are important! We all (not just Scotland) deserve better.
Jambalaya +1 lets hope they are good games. I found them puzzling when I was a wee lad - watching my hero at the time David Jenkins (that dates me) running for the oppo!!! I still cheered him on!
a wonderful occasion for Glasgow and for Scotland.
...so long as the Scottish athletes live long enough to complete their events.
They are a real asset to their country.
No idea but the GB olympic curling team will be ****ed
A bit naughty for the FT but quite funny nonetheless
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dc5ae97e-11c8-11e4-8279-00144feabdc0.html#axzz37vfDJjPk
maybe rUK men will live longer without all of this referendum grief
The truth is that life expectancy south of the border is already higher. Salmond would do well to sort things like this out instead of spending all day, every day, campaigning for independence.
Salmond would do well to sort things like this out ....
Any suggestion how this might be done ?
Problem with low life expectancy in certain areas of Scotland is far too big for one person to fix. If it was that easy then surely one of his four predecessors (none of whom were SNP) would have sorted it before now?
What about pre 1999? or is it just a modern problem?
Cheap attempt at point scoring from you there.
Actually scottish life expectancy is only 2 years less than the UK average.
There are much greater differences in life expectancy between London boroughs.
I would go along with the cheap point scoring remark.
[quote=ernie_lynch ]There are much greater differences in life expectancy between London boroughs.
So why hasn't Boris sorted that then instead of wasting all his time playing with bikes?
I have just looked at figures for a range of different causes of death and Scotland is worse than England and Wales in all of them that I looked at (didn't check them all though). It is also worse than a lot of European countries. There has been big reductions in deaths for some causes since the 1970s so it is not as if nothing is being done. I just think more could be done and Salmond should be spending his time on this instead of devoting 24/7 to independence.
After all Scottish independence is not just about the SNP, couldn't the various independence groups have joined forces and created a "better apart" organisation to campaign for independence? This would have freed Salmond up to get on with his day job.
Governments everywhere are struggling with increasing life expectancy and the burden it puts on the health service and pension provisions. I would imagine no politician would ever admit it but a lower life expectancy amongst their population is their friend. Perhaps that is part of AS's economic masterplan 😉
I just think more could be done and Salmond should be spending his time on this instead of devoting 24/7 to independence.
Well go on then, list all the things which Salmond should be doing and that he hasn't been doing to increase Scottish life expectancy.
You obviously feel very strongly about this issue as you chose to bring it up, so you must have a few ideas about what isn't been done that should be done.
Unless of course it was just a cheap shot and you're utterly clueless concerning what a Scottish government can do to increase life expectancy ?
BTW :
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26681098 ]Scots life expectancy 'highest ever'[/url]
Some quotes from your article
However, life expectancy in Scotland is still lower than elsewhere in the UK.But Registrar General for Scotland Tim Ellis said: "More generally, while life expectancy at birth in Scotland is higher than it has ever been, life expectancy at birth in Scotland is still the lowest within the UK.
"In Scotland, males and females can expect to live shorter lives (by 2.5 years and 2.1 years respectively) than in England, where male and female life expectancy is the highest in the UK."
Ernie I don't have the answers but I would expect a politician to and to be making it their number one priority. This is not a cheap dig at Salmond and I am genuinely concerned at the inequality in health between Scotland, N Ireland and England and Wales. To add some balance to this I would also like to know what the UK government has been doing about it.
There is something called the "Glasgow Effect" which occurs, funnily enough, in Glasgow (and West Central Scotland in general).
The gap in life expectancy in Scotland vs England and rest of Europe is down to an unexplained higher mortality rate in Glasgow. In some parts of the city males are not expected to see their 60th birthday. Take Glasgow out of the equation and comparisons with Scotland vs Elsewhere is much more even.
The Glasgow Effect was first noticed in the early 1950s when life expectancy elsewhere started to increase, but stagnated in Glasgow.
A number of academic studies have been done since then, as far as I know the exact cause has yet to be explained. Sure, high levels of deprivation, poverty, drug and alcohol abuse and a violent culture all play a part.
The thing is though when compared to other cities in Europe with a similar socioeconomic profile there is still on average a 15% higher mortality rate in Glasgow. Even compared to Manchester and Liverpool which are about as close in profile to Glasgow as you will get in the UK this jumps up to 30%.
There are many people working on this, not just in Scotland, it is also being researched internationally.
teamhurtmore - Member
A bit naughty for the FT but quite funny nonetheless...
Nice gentle dig at our independence movement. Reminds me of the days of Punch magazine full of North Briton jokes...
Talking of days - 55 days to go 🙂
couldn't the various independence groups have joined forces and created a "better apart" organisation to campaign for independence?
you do know the yes campaign is not just the SNP dont you?*
you really expect a politician to make life expectancy the number one issue?I would expect a politician to and to be making it their number one priority
can you highlight an example where a politician has both got the answer to this and made it their number one priority?
I am not saying it[ life expectancy] is not important but it seems a strange reason to attack AS tbh.
*The campaign is an alliance of the governing Scottish National Party, the Scottish Green Party, and the Scottish Socialist Party.[16]
The organisation has collaborated with Labour for Independence, an independent organisation which seeks to provide a voice for pro-independence supporters of the Scottish Labour Party. In 2013, Yes Scotland covered the £245 accommodation bill for LFI's first conference.[17]
Other groups supporting a Yes vote include Women for Independence and Business for Scotland.
Ernie I don't have the answers
So despite not having the answers you expect Alex Salmond to have them.
Well shouldn't you be making finding the answers your number one priority ? 🙂
The case against the nationalists is substantial, it doesn't require cheap shots aimed at Alex Salmond because he hasn't changed Scottish culture into a more healthy one.
And if the case against the nationalists was indeed so weak that cheap shots is the best that can be expected then that would suggest that a reevaluation might be needed - there is no point supporting something if you feel it lacks credibility.
Ernie, you should tell thm that he doesnt need cheap shots 😛
Tell me yourself - nothing cheap, all pertinent and unanswered!
But plenty of shots needed when you have one of the greatest economic and political frauds pulled since the mis-selling of the € zone happening right in front of our eyes. Fortunately, the majority of Scots are too canny to be take in this time.
It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for selfish reasons, and vote Yes for altruistic ones.
There are exceptions of course, but it seems a pretty common rule of thumb. When you ask a No voter why they're voting the way they are, it's because of worries about their pensions or how their business will be affected. When you ask a Yes voter, it's because they want a society that treats it's poorest citizens better, or one that doesn't wage wars or has nuclear weapons, or a society that's more welcoming to immigrants.
It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for selfish reasons, and vote Yes for altruistic ones.
Yes you're right, that is interesting. And you intend voting Yes so that makes you one of the good guys, which also interesting.
Thank you for sharing your obviously totally objective opinions.
My pleasure 😉
There are exceptions, as I said - usually they turn out to be people who have some hope that, somehow, the a Labour Party will a. turn socialist again, and b. grow some balls.
There are exceptions, as I said
You mean there's some Yes supporters who are selfish ?
This is turning out to be more interesting than I first imagined.