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teamhurtmore - Member
More misrepresentation - who has said that?
You did,that and an education for your son.
Just been reading some of that CPAG report that predicts 100,000 more children in poverty by the end of the dacade
Interesting when you look at the list of contributors:
[i]Cailean Gallagher is a researcher at Yes Scotland. He is involved with Trade Unionists for Yes, Mair Nor a Roch Wind, and is a member of the Labour Party and Unite. He has worked with openDemocracy, co-editing the Restating Scotland debate and Fight Back! A Reader on the Winter of Protest, and was founding editor of the Oxford Left Review.[/i]
😆
It's weird that you didn't also quote the profile of the contributor to the CPAG report who follows Cailean Gallagher in that alphabetical list of contributors, Jim Gallagher. I wonder why:
" 😆 "
insinuating that being part of a union with England will result in XXXk living in poverty is not an anti-English slur, really?
Yes, that's absolutely correct.
A bit like saying "being in the European Union will cost 50,000 jobs" is not an anti-German slur.
I am a Scotophile
I think i can safely say all the scots on here, not to mention wee eck, are really feeling your love 😉
.Your double standards and lack of self awareness
TROLL. He wont feed you , its not that he knows he cannot defend himself.The evidence was in your two posts, you literally objected to what you had just done!! There was no defence hence the lame troll jibe and sticking your head in the sands and pretending you cannot see it.
ah here it is on time
Prefer misrepresentation or in one case simply trolling
You spout this lazy insult [ again oh the ironing and hypocrisy] - I bet the mods have declined your protest and NOT one other person has said this on here to me or on STW in general [ not even ernie in jest nor KB* ] You are bright enough to know you cannot defend yourself hence you dont even bother to try. Unfortunately you are not polite enough to not hurl the lamest of insults. You clearly do what you object to over and over again.
You seem to be getting upset when people question your points.
Poor THM the trolls are everywhere
* I am asking for it now
😀 😀
"Feel the hunger"
Kona, its not the same clearly, but not a bad point actually. You must have been reading Obama's recent speeches! Like falsely blaming Westminster for all Scotland's ails, there is lots of scapegoating going on globally right now. And Germany cops a lot if it!!
teamhurtmore - Member
.... Like falsely blaming Westminster for all Scotland's ails ...
No, it's simply the realisation that Westminster will look after its larger and more important constituencies and to them Scotland is an irrelevance except for what can be extracted from it.
Funny that B&Q think we can't do it ourselves 😉
Apparently changing a computer system and maybe repricing things if the currency changes is too challenging for a multinational company...
No, it's simply the realisation that Westminster will look after its larger and more important constituencies and to them Scotland is an irrelevance except for what can be extracted from it.
If there is a whining Scot event at the commonwealth games you are on course for a gold medal.
fasternotfatter - MemberIf there is a whining Scot event at the commonwealth games you are on course for a gold medal.
As opposed to the balanced,reasoned,measured posts of you and the rest of the English posters,none of whom even have a vote. Can you refute his point?
rest of the English posters,none of whom even have a vote.
I fail to see why posting that had any relevance. May be a point of fact, however implies that people from rUK should not be voicing their opinions.
If you think Yes contributors responses have been balanced and reasoned you are deluding yourself I see Yes stickers popping up everywhere. I have not seen a single Better Together poster or advert, and certainly don't use them here to back up what I feel. That poster of child poverty and it's portrayal of a Dickensian Scotland, and the official Yes video, where a young girl effectively tells us to "think of the children", are quite frankly crass examples of emotional blackmail, not worthy of serious use to back up an opinion.
I will say the official Yes camp is slick and intelligent. Intelligent, as it appears such tripe propaganda is winning support. What a worry!
It was a reply to somebody bringing race into it(again) But you knew that. We have examples such as Zulu's post on the poverty report complaining about a ys worker having contributed,yet ignoring the fact that [b]the very next contributor[/b] works for BT. Why would somebody who has no say in Sept go to the trouble of posting such an easy to call attempt at discrediting a report?
The flinging out of racial stereotypes on this thread have not come from the nationalists. I share your condemnation of using children,but note yours doesn't extend to the scaremongering vote no borders cinema ad that GOSH objected to last week. I don't like the tone that the yes campaign is adopting,but then it is astonishingly hypocritical for the no campaign to accuse anybody of scaremongering.
and the official Yes video, where a young girl effectively tells us to "think of the children"
Well, that's one reason I'm doing it - the alternative to "think of the children" is "think of ourselves" which is what a lot of the short-term No stuff is about.
The interesting thing about Yes is that it is so varied - there's the official campaign, sure, but there's also a huge range of other groups - Africans for an Independent Scotland, Radical Independence, the Scottish Socialist Party, etc etc. So there's not really one coherent media message, everyone's got their own take on it.
Whereas No have their Better Together campaign, and the very suspiciously funded Vote No Borders astroturfing effort. And, er, that's about it.
fasternotfatter - Member
"No, it's simply the realisation that Westminster will look after its larger and more important constituencies and to them Scotland is an irrelevance except for what can be extracted from it."
If there is a whining Scot event at the commonwealth games you are on course for a gold medal.
You have nicely encapsulated the Better Together policy and strategy in that one sentence.
You have nicely encapsulated the Better Together policy and strategy in that one sentence.
No, it was designed to mock and insult - no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.
And the claim that for Westminster [i]"Scotland is an irrelevance except for what can be extracted from it"[/i] is equally a stupid comment which no reasonable person would take seriously.
It's clear that neither side has a monopoly over stupid comments on this thread.
no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.
Now that is insulting and factually incorrect, like most of the tripe coming from the No side of the debate.
[img] 
[/img]
Now that is insulting and factually incorrect, like most of the tripe coming from the No side of the debate.
Thank you for correcting me with your reasonable and carefully thought out comment.
ernie_lynch - Member
...no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.
Did you have a straight face when you typed that?
The grossly insulting, dishonest and threatening BT campaign has done a lot to drive people into the Yes camp despite BT having control over all the traditional news media except The Sunday Herald.
YS boys - you guys are two months too late, it's the 1st of [b]JUNE[/b] today. Or am I missing a new national celebration of comedy?
The weathers nice, it's a Sunday. If you are not in the Kirk go and have a ride. It should help.
no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.
You're right - Better Together don't mean to insult.
However their patronising attitude, misrepresentation of the facts, spin and dubious sources of finance are insulting to the people they're trying to convince. It's pretty telling that no-one ever seems to go from Yes to No, all the movement is the other way, and comment after comment is that it's the Better Together strategy that's pushing people that way.
For example, take this advert:
[img] 
[/img]
Guaranteed? By whom? No party has committed themselves to any substantial more powers after a No vote. It's stuff like that that is insulting - treating the public like mugs.
athgray
I have not seen a single Better Together poster or advert, and certainly don't use them here to back up what I feel.
duckman
but note yours doesn't extend to the scaremongering vote no borders cinema ad that GOSH objected to last week
I cannot comment on an advert I have not seen. I would say that I am sure I would be as appalled by Better Together adverts as Yes voters should be about theirs. Also, I reckon the Yes campaign and propaganda is more visible, so in the run up we will probably see a lot more Yes tripe than Better Together tripe.
Are we to expect a poster dramatizing a victim of domestic abuse, with a line telling us that this can be stopped with a Yes vote?
We have already heared Scotland described as a victim of domestic abuse, too scared to leave.
Ben - wonder if you can tell whats going on there?
If you think Yes contributors responses have been balanced and reasoned you are deluding yourself
Is it your suggestion that two wrongs make a right -- TBH it is incredibly daft to attempt to defend your own behaviour by just criticising some others groups behaviour - not least when you have just done exactly what you accuse them of
If there is a whining Scot event at the commonwealth games you are on course for a gold medal.
Why not be an example rather than follow THMS approach of doing what you object to then complaining about it?
no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.
Ah right so objecting to you means one has to automatically be unreasonable ....nice tactic 😕
IMHO we could debate whether it goes as afar as insulting [ IMHO both campaigns extremists do this but neither campaign quite does it] as it is just designed to spread fear 😉
There are insults on this page for example
We plan to maintain shared services in areas where it makes sense to do so, and where it is in the interests of both Scotland and the rest of the UK, such as:NHS Blood and Transplant
the Royal Mint
the Research Councils
Air and Maritime Accidents Investigation
some expert and technical advisory groups, for example the Committee on Radioactive Waste Management
the Green Investment Bank
the Hydrographic OfficeWhere functions continue on a shared services basis, there will need to be adjustments to the governance of these bodies to ensure there is appropriate accountability to the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament. These can build on arrangements already in place for cross-border bodies dealing with devolved matters.
Get real nats you are going to be a separate nation that the UK will be competing with. As if the UK is going to make "adjustments to the governance of these bodies to ensure there is appropriate accountability to the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament". The only thing the UK will be doing is waving goodbye.
Clearly they will cooperate with a neighbour over mutually convenient matters though we could debate what these are.
You should have a look at Ireland to see how much the UK cooperates with a foreign gov on an Island from energy distribution to the RNLI there are many shared island bodies and some political ones
Scotland cooperates with NI and ireland over renewables and they all cooperate with Wales [ interreg] but I will see if you can be arsed googling for that. I suspect facts dont matter much to you.
Your posts are so full of contempt I am struggling to work out why you care [ please do not mistake that for me actually asking you a question/wanting to read some more of your contempt filled views]
teamhotair- Member
YS boys - you guys are two months too late, it's the 1st of JUNE today. Or am I missing a new national celebration of comedy
I forgot,in your fevered imagination,the no campaign is "pretty tame." Feel free to call me a liar for reminding you that you stated that. Still how dare we vote on our future in a way you don't like when you might plan on moving up here?
Ben - wonder if you can tell whats going on there?
That's the Vote No Borders Facebook page - what am I supposed to be looking at?
Though this caught my eye:
We asked you what you would miss most if Scotland were to separate. Kevin H told us what he thought."I will miss walking the St Cuthberts Way, hearing similar accents, learning about cultures and historical traditions and realising you live in Great Britain a great nation made up of four similar nations and a range of islands."
Someone else who seems to think that after independence, Scotland will drift off into the North Atlantic, we'll all start speaking Gaelic, and we'll never be able to visit England again. Sounds like an elderly friend of my mother who is voting No because she's worried she won't be able to go to Scarborough any more.
Someone who does not know that great britain is three nations
If you want to worry about losing your heritage at least learn what it is ...numpty.
Junkyard I did google cooperation between ROI and the UK and there is the RNLI, a couple of governmental councils and some cooperation on energy as there is with other European countries though. My problem is the SNP making a number of assumptions about what the UK is going to do after Scottish independence. There is no agreement in place for this wish list of shared institutions but I suppose it helps to stop Scots from worrying about the disruption and costs involved with independence. If Scots don't mind being misled by the SNP then good for them.
As for contempt, how about the contempt that is shown for Westminster by the nats on here? Is that Westminster the building, the MPs that work there or the whole UK political system? The UK has the 6th largest economy in the world, they must be doing something right.
My problem is the SNP making a number of assumptions about what the UK is going to do after Scottish independence.
And then you make assumptions about what rUK will do afterwards with "wave"
As for contempt, how about the contempt that is shown for Westminster by the nats on here?
Every post you moan about something and then do it yourself:roll:
Pointing out other people do it is not defending your behaviour its is either right or wrong not right when you do it and wrong when they do it. A point lost on you and THM for some reason.
The UK has the 6th largest economy in the world, they must be doing something right.
China is second so they must to ...perhaps we should have a one party state then ? Linking the fairness of the political system wiht the economic susccess of the country is not that wise IMHO
That's the Vote No Borders Facebook page - what am I supposed to be looking at?
Look again
Vote no borders - official site:
vote no to borders - anti no borders site set up by cybernats
/p>
The comment you posted was from the fake site 😆
And then you make assumptions about what rUK will do afterwards with "wave"
I am big enough to admit I am wrong to make assumptions. Thanks for pointing out that you agree the SNP is also wrong to make assumptions as well, such as sharing institutions and a currency.
Every post you moan about something and then do it yourself:roll:
Feeling aggrieved is not showing contempt so we will have to disagree on this one. 😉
China is second so they must to ...perhaps we should have a one party state then ? Linking the fairness of the political system wiht the economic susccess of the country is not that wise IMHO
You are right again, I should not have linked the greatness of the UK to just the strength of our economy when there are so many other things to choose from. Isn't this one of those strawman (your new favourite word) arguments anyway? The fact is that the UK has a very strong economy and Scotland currently benefits from it. It will be a gamble letting wee eck loose with the Scottish economy and that is not an assumption.
I forgot,in your fevered imagination,the no campaign is "pretty tame."
Sorry which bit did you forget? That the No campaign is lacklustre or tame or the bit about my imagination? Do you need reminding?
Feel free to call me a liar for reminding you that you stated that.
Why would I do that? I think calling forumites liars is ill-becoming on a forum? Did you forget that too?
Still how dare we vote on our future in a way you don't like when you might plan on moving up here?
Why ever not? I like democracy and freedom of speech. Look at the fun we have with the yS attempts to explain basic economics. It's great, we keep a book of famous quotes! People should have complete freedom to make fools of themselves......
I hope that you managed nice rides, the weather is lovely!
That great British tennis player did a good job this morning too. Nice tense stuff, but hope he is not too tired for tomorrow. Another reason to vote NO.....wouldn't it be a shame if you didn't have someone from the Home Countries to cheer in the World Cup? 😉
Look again
Oh yes, that's pretty funny 😉
The comment you posted was from the fake site
Wrong, it's from the real one 😀
Thanks for pointing out that you agree the SNP is also wrong to make assumptions as well, such as sharing institutions and a currency
I do agree both sides lie and make ridiculous assumptions/claims/lies about what may or may not happen afterwards.
Nice attempt to side step the point that if you wish to complain about something then you should not do it yourself. Most people would not need this pointing out to them.
Isn't this one of those strawman
I only repeated what you said using China as the example, if it is one it is your straw man 🙄 Personally I would say your point was a non sequitur and a reductio ad absurdum [ at a stretch] from me. That is China does great economically but this does not mean [ nor does it naturally follow] its political institutions are great [ nor does it for westminster]. I have gone into enough depth for you to understand what the words mean.
I think calling forumites liars is ill-becoming on a forum?
You seem happy to call me a troll despite the fact no one else agrees with you. Thankfully that is just something that is just not true* and not an actual lie.
Its also important to remember we can call anyone a liar as long as they do not post here.
Murray is only British because he is not English, everyone knows this.
* Again i think you must have reported me by now[and had it turned down] so what would you describe that claim as if not untrue? What do you suggest we call someone who repeats a claim they know to be untrue? I dont want to be accused of "ill becoming behaviour" as well as trolling so I am happy to go with your suggestion here.
Ben
Read it and weep
It appears this post is a spoof from a spoof site, many have been fooled on FB and twitter, Yes H & L apologies to all who have been fooled with us.
Bella Caledonia confirms
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/05/02/astroturf-democracy/
.I do agree both sides lie and make ridiculous assumptions/claims/lies about what may or may not happen afterwards.
Nice attempt to side step the point that if you wish to complain about something then you should not do it yourself. Most people would not need this pointing out to them.
There is a big difference between someone on a forum making an assumption and the potential government of iScotland doing the same and potentially misleading voters.
I only repeated what you said using China as the example
No you took my comment and spun it in a negative manner away from the original meaning without answering or countering my assertion, pretty much the definition of a strawman. The US, Japan, France and Germany all have stronger economies than the UK and you could have used them as an example if you wished but China was the only negative choice available to you. The point I made was that Westminster or to be more precise the various governments that have worked there have guided the UK into having the 6th highest GDP economy in the world, I think that is pretty good going for a country of around 60 million people. Do you not agree that vilifying Westminster is juvenile and petty or is everything that happens in Westminster really deserving of contempt? Things that Westminster can be proud of include the welfare state, NHS and one of the highest foreign aid budgets in the world.
God is this still running.......at the end of the day 'if' Scotland vote yes at the referendum then they can still chose to use the pound as a national currency however, Westmininster has stated if they do they will have no say in fiscal policy.......
.......does it really need 151 pages to say this?
Surely we're all in agreement that George Osborne is a horses arse who spouts the biggest load of horseshit ever.
Clearly yes....on and monetary policy as well don't forget. Worth repeating as it's clearly not sunk in yet!
****an, it must be bloody worrying if your guys can't out point a horse's arse in a factual argument. How can he understand basics better than the higher (?) quality MSPs? Dear, oh dear, oh dear.....
Wan it is not just GO though it is the Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all saying no to currency union as well as the majority of people in the UK according to polls. A currency union does not make sense to the UK I am afraid. I am sure there would be no problem setting up a Scots pound.
Don't forget central banks as well....
Odd, that the one currency option that maximises independence of policy (as proposed in the BoD) has yet to be aired. We have the Euro, then £, then even a shadow £ peg but yet we still have to have the S£. Now, I wonder why that is...........?
African or Indian stools?
Don't you need your own currency and central bank to join the Euro?
That was page 23 I think.... 😀