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How good and easy to set up and use are they now? I resent paying microsoft or apple money at all since they kowtowed to Trump but I am going to need a new desktop soon.
I am a reasonable user of a computer but thats about it No idea of the detail of how they work. I can just about open command prompt but thats it. I use a fair bit of open source software like open office and so on and have had few issues with it. the only microsoft thing I now use is basic windows
would I be foolish to look at an open source OS ? Or have they reached a level now where and averageish user can make them work?. there are local places who can build a computer to my spec so I don't need to buy one with everything preinstalled
[sweeping generalization]
Open Source OS is the domain of the tech nerd, and I mean that in the same sense that many here are bike nerds; the fact that it needs constantly tinkering with is part of the enjoyment. You'll be forever trying to get it to work with your printer/router/phone/scanner/whatever, and the nerds love that stuff, in the same way that the nerds here love wanging on about tyre pressures, rebound rates and frame geometry.
As Joe Punter who just wants a bike to ride to work on, should just go buy a hybrid from a known brand, if you want an OS that just works, use iOS, Windows or Chrome.
[/sweeping generalization]
OpenOffice was discontinued quite some time ago (although there is an Apache version). Libre Office is go to open source Office app these days. Might explain your issues 🙂
Can't speak about operating systems but I use a lot of open source software now and it is so professional and usable.
I do still use Windows but I can't recall the last I actually gave Microsoft any money. The current one came installed on a second hand computer and has been updated for free many times.
Very easy to use for basic stuff, office, browsing, etc. etc. depending on which flavour of linux you choose.. there are lots!
I'd suggest mint or ubuntu, a lot of them just work straight out of the box, they come with most drivers and often come bundled with say firefox, open office sorry libre office as it's now called...and other common apps people will typically want.
You can even make a USB bootable verion of most, so you can run them from a flash drive to test drive them, before installing them properly.
https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/choose.html
Well that shows how dim I am 🙂 Not even sure what open source office thingy I am using. Maybe its the apache version?. I don't really have issues with it tho. I wrote "few issues" not "A few issues" 🙂
I am certainly no computer nerd but my experience of open source software is generally good.
mattyfez +1
The most difficult thing can be overcoming a computer's reticence to load a different OS, which means a faff in settings to shut secure boot and the like up.
Otherwise, easy enough and updates are simpler than Windows
Some niche hardware is a problem, but for most it's straightforward
really don't do it unless you really like doing this stuff and want to get into it. As above although it is a generalisation it is still for people who enjoy getting stuff to work and you are just making life harder for yourself when you could be getting on with something more interesting. If it's only because you resent giving money to Apple/Microsoft I'm sure you will struggle with Google as well as there really are few phone systems outside Android/iOS. You will also spend a lot of time 'fixing' problems by googling stuff and typing in commands that you don't fully understand. That way chaos lies
mattyfez +1
The most difficult thing can be overcoming a computer's reticence to load a different OS, which means a faff in settings to shut secure boot and the like up.
Otherwise, easy enough and updates are simpler than Windows
Some niche hardware is a problem, but for most it's straightforward
Yeah I'm currently duel booting with windows and Nobara, as it has good steam support and i can play forza horizon... only issue is I can't get my xbox pad to connect properly via bluetooth, it works fine with a usb cable though, so i might try a different linux distro
All normal stuff just works though...
I do not use google and am logged out of all google stuff on my phone and do not let it track me at all ( difficult but possible) so I have almost nothing to do with google either 🙂
This is a timley video if you are thinking about linux...
really don't do it unless you really like doing this stuff and want to get into it. As above although it is a generalisation it is still for people who enjoy getting stuff to work and you are just making life harder for yourself when you could be getting on with something more interesting. If it's only because you resent giving money to Apple/Microsoft I'm sure you will struggle with Google as well as there really are few phone systems outside Android/iOS. You will also spend a lot of time 'fixing' problems by googling stuff and typing in commands that you don't fully understand. That way chaos lies
That's really not true, a lot of the more user friendly linux distros you just install it much like you would windows you go through an initial setup, enter wif-password, etc, and it just works. They even come bundled with all the comon apps most home casual/users want - vlc media player, libre office, etc etc.
Linux Mint was simple to set up and use when I played with it on an old laptop. The old laptop is key here as it extends the life of an appliance that would otherwise end up as electronic waste (I expect that you won't want to re-purpose old tech as a local server for Plex or something like a DNS set-up).
Long time daily user of Solus here https://getsol.us/
Very very rarely need to resort to command line and when I do it's usually just because it's easier than using the GUI. Easy to use software center.
The only thing I can sometimes need that I don't have is access to Adobe Creative suite functions and InDesign but again it's so rare. There's so many web apps out there now I don't need to install anything just about everything is done in the browser.
Obviously LibreOffice suite is available for Docs and spreadsheets.
To all the nay sayers, have you even used a modern Linux distro?
It's no more difficult than switching from Windows to Mac OS for example.
That's like saying skoda cars are rubbish based on a 25 year old memory.
I challenge you to prove me wrong... Create a flash drive and boot up something from this list, and I dare you to tell me you struggle with it for normal home user activities.
https://www.howtogeek.com/linux-distros-best-for-beginners-to-start-with/
You can even run it straight off a flash drive to play with it without installing it properly
Not used Linux for a long time. But when I last used Ubuntu on and old PC it was absolutely fine for normal web and office stuff. That was over 6 years ago now and I can only imagine it has got better.
So I'd get a spare USB drive download a distro to it and see how you get on.
An alternative to paying Microsoft to use Windows is to use it anyway and just put up with the activation reminders. That and limited personalisation options appear to be the only downsides. Security updates appear to come through as normal.
An alternative to paying Microsoft to use Windows is to use it anyway and just put up with the activation reminders. That and limited personalisation options appear to be the only downsides. Security updates appear to come through as normal.
In that scenario you'd just buy a grey market widows licence key for a tenner or something, but it doesn't address the problem that you're still stuck with windows.
If I wasn't heavily into gaming on windows I wouldn't even use it at all.
Windows is expensive, bloated, full of Spyware and just not as good.
Are you building the desktop yourself or buying retail?
assuming it got windows installed at the factory then surely uncle bill had already been paid ? I’d stick with windows and make a point of doing as you currently do and avoid their applications where possible
certainly wouldn’t be a hill I’d choose to die on and I work in IT
Just crack on with something like Mint or Ubuntu, I use Ubuntu Cinnamon across a laptop and desktop and it's boringly efficient. No idea why people are saying it's difficult. Some distros are a nightmare, Mint or Ubuntu are easier to get to grips with than new windows.
Don't bother reading any "best Linux distro for beginners" type articles because they quickly descend into techy one-upmanship bullshit about stuff that's utterly irrelevant to actual beginners.
If there's some random bit of software you "have to" use for work purposes or whatever that might be different but for the vast majority of people that's not the case.
Honestly, you could be up and running in an hour, in a week you almost certainly won't want to go back.
certainly wouldn’t be a hill I’d choose to die on and I work in IT
Don't even think I about it. As you know, I've been in IT
you are just making life harder for yourself when you could be getting on with something more interesting.
Hey mee too! I work in IT, and for home use, I can say catagorically say all three of you have absolutley no idea, or indeed experience, of what you are talking about in this context! 🤣
Either that or your only interactions with Linux were backend server stuff, or from 25+ years ago. 🤔
They are great (the good ones) until suddenly they're not. Like, there's some bit of software you want, or you edit a document using Libre Office and it totally buggers it up, or you want to use some gadget and it doesn't work. Then you are stuffed and your only support network is nerds who will start arguing about distributions and kernel modules and whatnot.
I used to use it for work. My laptop kept crashing which impacted a high stakes project and everyone was blaming me for using Linux. Turned out I had a hardware issue, but that didn't make a difference. I went back to Windows.
^^^^
You're not wrong wrong but that's a reason there's a load of memes about word losing its shit when you try and move an image or whatever and it's not because of the rock solid stability of ms and ms office!
Are you building the desktop yourself or buying retail?
assuming it got windows installed at the factory then surely uncle bill had already been paid ? I’d stick with windows and make a point of doing as you currently do and avoid their applications where possiblecertainly wouldn’t be a hill I’d choose to die on and I work in IT
I would get one built locally without windows
Why not just chuck a distro on your existing computer to see how it goes?
What is a distro? Too much jargon I have no idea about. speak to me like I'm 93 🙂
It's the flavour of the OS.
They're all basically the same under the hood (well, they're not but let's pretend) but the user facing bit changes depending on what the developers want to achieve.
So Ubuntu is a distro for normal people who want stuff that just works for everyday computing.
Go here:
https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntucinnamon/releases/24.04.2/release/
follow the instructions, report back by 2200hrs. 😉
It's fine. I use Linux for everything, and while there used to be a lot of problems, they're mostly a thing of the past.
It won't work for gaming if your game is Windows only. And you might have hardware that doesn't work if you're unlucky. Pretty much all printers are fine though.
And whereas in the olden days if you got stuck, you would be wading through a million stack-overflow posts to figure out how to fix something, these days you can just ask ChatGPT and it will do a pretty good job of telling you what to do.
I even have working hardware acceleration when using kdenlive, which is quite astonishing.
I use proton via steam for windows gaming on ubuntu and it works well, not as good as being in native windows but good enough to play the sort of games my aging hardware will play.
OpenOffice was discontinued quite some time ago (although there is an Apache version). Libre Office is go to open source Office app these days.
Libre Office is a fork of Open Office (ie, someone else took the source and started working on it independently). Libre Office is the better choice for the consumer, Open Office is (or at least was last I looked) targeted and business users who want fewer bleeding-edge features but an official support route.
It's fine. I use Linux for everything, and while there used to be a lot of problems, they're mostly a thing of the past.
It won't work for gaming if your game is Windows only. And you might have hardware that doesn't work if you're unlucky. Pretty much all printers are fine though.
And whereas in the olden days if you got stuck, you would be wading through a million stack-overflow posts to figure out how to fix something, these days you can just ask ChatGPT and it will do a pretty good job of telling you what to do.
I even have working hardware acceleration when using kdenlive, which is quite astonishing.
HDR actually works properly in the desktop environment too, unlike windows.
I'll come to answer your original question when I've got a bit more time. Two things to consider though:
- You need a new desktop. What's wrong with the old one? (And if you're buying a new pre-built machine it'll almost certainly come with Windows preinstalled anyway.)
- Whenever this conversation crops up you will get Team Microsoft who will tell you that Linux never works and is more trouble than it's worth, and Team Penguin who will tell you that Windows never works and still think "Micro$oft Windoze" is hilarious. Both of these groups are fanatics who are basing their advice on decades-old experiences and who won't be told any different so are best ignored.
Yours, someone who uses both on a daily basis.
Whilst the picture loading is still on the wonk, the correct link to the full-sized version of that image is
https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/attachments/18810/8043-image.png
You need a new desktop. What's wrong with the old one? (And if you're buying a new pre-built machine it'll almost certainly come with Windows preinstalled anyway.)
Its more than a decade old and beginning to struggle to run stuff. Too many windopws open and it all slows down. Maybe more ram would help - IIRC its expandable
As above - I would get one of the local PC bods to build me one without all the preinstalled shite
Hey mee too! I work in IT, and for home use, I can say catagorically say all three of you have absolutley no idea, or indeed experience, of what you are talking about in this context! 🤣
Possibly, it's been 15 years since I last tried it but it only takes one program that you would like to use that doesn't work and you are in a world of pain. I just checked one of the audio programs I use and it can be run under Linux but then it says this for how to deal with sound issues:
Unpack the download with "tar -xzf xscsetup-9.42.0.tar.gz". It is a binary distribution so there may be other issues with library versions etc. There is more information in the readme you will find in the download.
It's a completely new language if you haven't used it before and I'm not convinced you would want to go down that road. Yes it's not a standard program but you might find there is a bike cad program you want to use, or a mapping program, or if you want to install Signal which is hardly unusual then these are the instructions:
# 1. Install our official public software signing key:
wget -O-| gpg --dearmor > signal-desktop-keyring.gpg;
cat signal-desktop-keyring.gpg | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg > /dev/null# 2. Add our repository to your list of repositories:
echo 'deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg] https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt xenial main' |\
sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/signal-xenial.list# 3. Update your package database and install Signal:
sudo apt update && sudo apt install signal-desktop
Fine if you are used to it but it's a complete new language to learn. I'm not really sure that is what tj wants although I am also completely sure he could do it if he chose to go down that route
You could be using it by now!
I'm being slightly tongue in cheek but a, you could be and b, you'll never actually know until you try it for yourself.
Leffeboy's example above is pretty much the worst case scenario for a normal user.
Obviously it's not perfect but if Windows was perfect you wouldn't be changing so why not try something with different hassles!
You could be using it by now.
Is actually a good point. As mentioned already you can get distributions that will run off a flash drive so you can just try it on your existing windows desktop without installing anything and see how you get on
Hey mee too! I work in IT, and for home use, I can say catagorically say all three of you have absolutley no idea, or indeed experience, of what you are talking about in this context! 🤣
Possibly, it's been 15 years since I last tried it but it only takes one program that you would like to use that doesn't work and you are in a world of pain. I just checked one of the audio programs I use and it can be run under Linux but then it says this for how to deal with sound issues:
Unpack the download with "tar -xzf xscsetup-9.42.0.tar.gz". It is a binary distribution so there may be other issues with library versions etc. There is more information in the readme you will find in the download.
It's a completely new language if you haven't used it before and I'm not convinced you would want to go down that road. Yes it's not a standard program but you might find there is a bike cad program you want to use, or a mapping program, or if you want to install Signal which is hardly unusual then these are the instructions:
# 1. Install our official public software signing key:
wget -O-| gpg --dearmor > signal-desktop-keyring.gpg;
cat signal-desktop-keyring.gpg | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg > /dev/null# 2. Add our repository to your list of repositories:
echo 'deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg] https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt xenial main' |\
sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/signal-xenial.list# 3. Update your package database and install Signal:
sudo apt update && sudo apt install signal-desktopFine if you are used to it but it's a complete new language to learn. I'm not really sure that is what tj wants although I am also completely sure he could do it if he chose to go down that route
That terrifies me. Im too old for this shit 🙂
That terrifies me. Im too old for this shit 🙂
You would only get into that world if you wanted something beyond the standard office/browser mix but I don't think that is unreasonable and Signal is fairly common now
I use signal every day.
ts more than a decade old and beginning to struggle to run stuff. Too many windopws open and it all slows down. Maybe more ram would help - IIRC its expandable
As above - I would get one of the local PC bods to build me one without all the preinstalled shite
It's hard to advise without (a lot) more information. But if you've got someone local who can help...
What you could do if you're Linux-curious is make what's called a "live" USB. Install Linux to a pendrive, boot off it and try-before-you-buy, so to speak. It won't touch your Windows installation, if you don't like it just reboot without it, and you'll probably find that old hardware works faster with it anyway.
Instructions are here: https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/try-ubuntu-before-you-install
Your "favourite image" is the first one it offers you, choose Ubuntu Desktop then Ubuntu 24.04.2 LTS
There are many different "distros" as someone else mentioned earlier, the thing with open source software is that anyone can do what they like with it. So if say you don't like the desktop interface on Ubuntu you can just wipe the USB and do the same with Mint or any other flavour you care to try.
I like Ubuntu because it's widely supported, one of the big barriers to entry with Linux is when you do have an issue and google it you'll find 47 different competing solutions, 46 are one of: doesn't apply to your distro; used to apply to your distro but has been superseded; will apply to your distro but has been committed (implemented) yet; works but is the wrong way to do it; works but is the wrong way to do it only for a different reason; works but breaks something else in the process; or simply doesn't work. You think STW can have an argument in an empty room, we're rank amateurs compared with the Linux forums. But at least with Ubuntu your support network isn't for an OS used by about six people.
(sorry, I typed that lot three hours ago and failed to hit "Add Reply")
Hey mee too! I work in IT, and for home use, I can say catagorically say all three of you have absolutley no idea, or indeed experience, of what you are talking about in this context! 🤣
Possibly, it's been 15 years since I last tried it but it only takes one program that you would like to use that doesn't work and you are in a world of pain. I just checked one of the audio programs I use and it can be run under Linux but then it says this for how to deal with sound issues:
Unpack the download with "tar -xzf xscsetup-9.42.0.tar.gz". It is a binary distribution so there may be other issues with library versions etc. There is more information in the readme you will find in the download.
It's a completely new language if you haven't used it before and I'm not convinced you would want to go down that road. Yes it's not a standard program but you might find there is a bike cad program you want to use, or a mapping program, or if you want to install Signal which is hardly unusual then these are the instructions:
# 1. Install our official public software signing key:
wget -O-| gpg --dearmor > signal-desktop-keyring.gpg;
cat signal-desktop-keyring.gpg | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg > /dev/null# 2. Add our repository to your list of repositories:
echo 'deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg] https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt xenial main' |\
sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/signal-xenial.list# 3. Update your package database and install Signal:
sudo apt update && sudo apt install signal-desktopFine if you are used to it but it's a complete new language to learn. I'm not really sure that is what tj wants although I am also completely sure he could do it if he chose to go down that route
That terrifies me. Im too old for this shit 🙂
It's like learning any new OS version or Office software.
With that lot ^^ you just copy and paste into a programme that's installed with every Linux by default, after that it might become part of the "normal" update routine. I say "might" because some do, like Firefox, and some remain stubbornly independent with their own update option, but that's no different to stuff under Windows
# 1. Install our official public software signing key:
That's just making sure that you download an authentic copy. You have to verify it and then install it as "admin" (the sudo bit). In Windows it's easier to install virus-laden stuff and the majority of home-user attacks are aimed at Windows anyway.
I also object to Windows wanting me to use a Windows account and then "follow me" around
I really wouldn't bother. If you don't want to pay Microsoft then just use one of the many KMS activators on GitHub.
I have Windows dual-booting with Ubuntu on my laptop and despite being designed for Linux it still doesn't quite work properly. It'll fire up fine, but once you're in you'll find continual annoyances that will lead you to wish you'd stuck with Windows (or Mac).
Linux is still terminal-based, so if the random GUI that the distribution supplier has plonked in doesn't work then you'll need to dive into the terminal, and you'll need to understand what you're doing as copied and pasting instructions from the internet will almost certainly not work.
What's good:
- it is actually open source.
- the backlight on my laptop is for some inexplicable reason brighter on Linux than Windows.
- all the bits and pieces on my laptop had drivers out of the box.
What's not so good:
- performance and battery life is still an issue. Resizing a browser window, for example, happens at one frame per second.
- you lose fingerprint / facial recognition. Even if there are drivers, there's no actual support in the Linux kernel for this. Get used to typing your password a lot.
- apps in the bundled "stores" are not the latest versions or frequently crippled (eg I dare you to find a way to play a video with an AC-3 audio track on Fedora or Ubuntu without diving into the command prompt).
- system and application updates take ages and you still have to restart.
- unless you export as PDF you still can't use any of the free "office" suites to modify a Word or Excel document because the formatting is just far enough off track to look naff.
- if you thought that Photoshop has a learning curve it's nothing to GIMP. And while we're on that, you'll never get the average person to install an application with that name unless someone tells them what it's short for.
- can't write to an NTFS drive without paying a third party.
- inconsistent UI scaling.
I've been using both for nearly 20 years and still prefer Windows. Though I do think Microsoft peaked with Windows 10.
Linux is still terminal-based, so if the random GUI that the distribution supplier has plonked in doesn't work then you'll need to dive into the terminal, and you'll need to understand what you're doing as copied and pasting instructions from the internet will almost certainly not work.
Just try a different distro. Once you get the hang of live-booting you can spend all day testing options and not change a thing
- system and application updates take ages and you still have to restart.
I only have to reboot either for a kernel update or a new graphics card driver
- unless you export as PDF you still can't use any of the free "office" suites to modify a Word or Excel document because the formatting is just far enough off track to look naff.
Mainly (but not wholly) because Office does its own thing to its own standards. The ISO 26300 standardised office format (ODF) has been around for 25 years but the latest version is only partially supported by MS
It's interesting that Libre Office is backward-compatible with more of the older Windows versions than MS Office. MS is about forcing people to update and buy new stuff. My old Win8 notebook runs on MX Linux (Debian) still
Its more than a decade old and beginning to struggle to run stuff.
Ten years old is not old. I use ten year old PCs every day, they are fine. If you are going to pay someone to build you a PC you can pay them to re-install plain Windows (without the manufacturer's junk) and it'll work fine.
The only exception to that rule is Windows 11 - it may not work on your old PC, because they introduced a requirement for a security device that is not present on some older machines. But it might.
In your situation I wouldn't bother. Think of Linux in the same way you view your old motorbike. Yes, it works, and you could use it every day, but would you recommend it to someone who knows nothing about bikes or cars and just wants to get to work?
To illustrate this, you asked what 'distro' means. It is short for distribution. See, Linux itself is just a kernel, that means the core of the operating system that runs your programs. On top of that is a common set of utilities that everyone uses, then there's another layer of tools and programs that are widely used but there are multiple alternatives for the same things. For example, there are tools that download and install software for you (called a package manager) which is great, but there are several different ones. So people have compiled whole sets of these tools with everything you need to use your computer, but there are different compilations and these are called distributions. There are dozens if not hundreds, all designed with different jobs and people in mind. On top of that, the visual interface that you actually use is a separate software package and there are many of these, some distributions come with one, some come with alternatives you can swap between. So when people talk about 'Mint' or 'Ubuntu' they mean one of these compilations of software. Additionally, all these software components have different versions, and they can conflict with each other, which is why you need the package manager. Sometimes they automatically update, sometimes not. Package managers also have a common repository of software that they download from, but not everything is in those repositories so you sometimes have to add other repositories.
Conversely, Windows is just Windows (ok so there's 10 and 11) and MacOS is just MacOS. They both also have package managers by the way; the Windows Store or the App Store.
MS is about forcing people to update and buy new stuff.
This is rubbish. Microsoft have massive support for old kit. Windows 10 came out ten years ago and is just ending support in October. But it still works. In fact, in the days of Windows 95/98 preserving support for old kit was a major problem for them but they still did it.
I've got a 15 year old laptop running windows 10, even though it came with Windows 7 on it. And guess what? It works pretty well. Conversely I tried to boot up a Mac from 2012 and I couldn't do anything with it because no browser would support it. It's a nice brushed aluminium brick that can only go to landfill.
What's not so good:
system and application updates take ages and you still have to restart.
Erm that's Windows
Linux (Arch in my case, btw) takes seconds to update everything all in one go. Usually single digit seconds.
Windows takes 10s of minutes of spinning wheel, and that's just the OS updates. Then need to manually go and update a load of applications separately.
Been using Linux since Debian was alpha/beta. What's that 30 years?
Great to see that all the best things Windows has done recently are the one to "be more like Linux". Shame they also keep removing really useful features such as the Start Menu functionality.
Mint is a good starting place to tinker. AFAIK, that one has numerous start menu options so you can have it like Windows 7,8,10,11,OSX,XP,2000,... just how you like it (or used to like it), without being dictated to how your workflow is going to be.
And with Mint you more than likely won't ever need to touch a terminal. Certainly no more than you need to touch command.exe or powershell in windows.
Remember, if you don't pay (Linux) you aren't the product. If you do pay (Windows), you are the product. None of this AI nonsense in Linux spying on you. And no cloud for your OS provider to collate all your info in one convenient place for NSA/GCHQ.
With that lot ^^ you just copy and paste into a programme that's installed with every Linux by default, after that it might become part of the "normal" update routine. I say "might" because some do, like Firefox, and some remain stubbornly independent with their own update option, but that's no different to stuff under Windows
Absolutely , and it doesn't stress me at all because I've been around this stuff forever and I'm happy to put in the time to learn a new system. However it's gobbledegook if you aren't used to it and you could end up typing bad things into your computer. Whenever I look up topics that I know about on the web the majority of answers to problems are at minimum wrong and a few will make the situation worse. I'm really not sure that is what tj is looking for. The question was whether or not there is an open source solution that is easy enough for a casual user and Im not sure we are there yet or at least not there enough for someone to want to give up their years of learning to start again unless there is a bit more of a reason than Microsoft kowtowed to Trump
- the backlight on my laptop is for some inexplicable reason brighter on Linux than Windows.
- all the bits and pieces on my laptop had drivers out of the box.
Probably because Linux lacks a native driver to control the backlight and so runs it at full tilt. 😁
I'm really not sure that is what tj is looking for.
I want to be able to browse the net, word process, use messaging apps and look at my pictures without paying any money to supporters of fascism like apple and microsoft
unless there is a bit more of a reason than Microsoft kowtowed to Trump
Thats important to me.
Edit.
A Linux Mint install should do those things for you TJ if the ‘messaging apps’ are browser based then for sure
also, some handy open source image tools available GIMP I suppose is still going but darktable looks like a very neat Lightroom alternative
for home use I still hand my money over to Apple. I have one gripe about MacBook Pros but aside from that they do what I want when I want to for years
However, if you do want to abandon the commercial offerings I’d echo the Linux Mint suggestions. That worked for an old PC I found in the cellar and produced an adequate machine for Linux playing around. And without too much nerdery needed.
messaging apps - signal, whatsapp and messenger ( yes I know messenger and whats app is run by these folk but its the only way I have of contacting some folk)
I don't see any harm in trying this out. My suggestion would be:
Ubuntu LTS
This is probably the most widely used distribution, almost any Linux software you want will support running on Ubuntu for this reason.
The LTS version will have 5 years of support before you need to upgrade.
It also supports Snap which allows you to install software from outside the Ubuntu world very easily.
For example the 'Signal' and 'WhatsApp' examples from above, well actually on Ubuntu you just open the Snap store from the menu and search for Signal or WhatsApp
Mint is a fine option also, however, it does not include Snap by default.
Have any of the linux distro creators shown any resistance to Trumps policies? I think ubuntu is UK based and suse German, but both those countries have also kowtowed to Trumpian dystopia politics, and are more than eager to hand over the keys of the kingdom to the techbros so any feelgood factor felt from switching to them would merely be a placebo effect.
Anyone believing there are any major differences between linux and windows in relation to updates causing disruption are living in a fantasy world.
The biggest problem with microsoft/windows now is that they have a very specific vision of how things should be done, and if you deviate from that vision then they don't care, fitting in edge case scenarios is not in their business model even if they are fairly common problems, they want to sell subscriptions and support rather than engaging with customers to make their products work. But that isn't a problem with microsoft alone, that is becoming a too predominant business model in the whole of IT supply, and has really started to become a headache for me over the past couple of years being an IT engineer in a predominantly air gapped environment.
However that doesn't really apply to home users, IMO stick to windows for an easy life. All the major corporations are pretty evil, I think apple probably have the best track record for standing up against government overreach, but I wouldn't trust any of them, even most of the supposedly private and secure browsers are largely a sham.
I am afraid that the only solution to corporate overreach into our lives is political, and it is a solution no major political party in the western world is offering to solve from what I can see.
I would not be helping fund him - thats the difference. Do not let perfect get in the way of as good as I can
I want to be able to browse the net, word process, use messaging apps and look at my pictures without paying any money to supporters of fascism like apple and microsoft
Good luck. Where does all your hardware come from? Who's funding the sites you use? Etc etc. It might make you feel better to pretend though, so go ahead. Try Ubuntu today, let us know how you get on!
The work required for installing Signal is for... various reasons.
Ubuntu, the Linux distribution most frequently recommended to beginners is based on Debian GNU/Linux.
Debian has a long history with the Free Software Foundation, which is formed around the philosophy of free software with the free referring to the freedom of access to that software above and beyond the financial meaning of the word. They don't include any software that is a black box, no software that you cannot look inside and learn about the workings of and adapt and improve for your own needs. Any software failing to provide the source code to allow this doesn't get in.
Personally I think this is an admiral policy, but more often than not it clashes with corporate interests, and that's where the tensions arise. Some corporate interests want to take the work of open source software, adapt it for their own needs, but skip the whole giving back to the community bit (which some people argue should be perfectly acceptable). Others are better behaved and do contribute back, particularly for the kernel of the operating system, the "Linux Kernel", the bit that is actually what Linux is.
Signal is a black box, however they do package their software up for Debian based distributions, and do also host it in their own software repository (or repo). You can add the Signal repo to the software package manager configuration so you can then use the built in Debian/Ubuntu software package manager to install Signal, update it, and remove it. It's a one time configuration* for the life of the OS installed on your device. *a major update might require you to add it back in.
wget -O- https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt/keys.asc | gpg --dearmor > signal-desktop-keyring.gpg cat signal-desktop-keyring.gpg | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg > /dev/null echo 'deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg] https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt xenial main' | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/signal-xenial.list sudo apt update && sudo apt install signal-desktop
It's basically four lines you copy and paste - one at a time - into a terminal and press enter. The third line will require you to enter your password to authenticate system changes. The fourth line does also, but should remember that you've just authenticated yourself already (depending on system configuration out the box).
It's way easier than the ./configure && make && make install process from the early days!
Good luck. Where does all your hardware come from? Who's funding the sites you use? Etc etc. It might make you feel better to pretend though, so go ahead.
I do what I can. No pretense. I know its not perfect but surely its better than not trying. funding for sites? I pay for here and spotify. Other sites I kill all trackers adn cookies so they get minimal data to sell from me if I am unclear on funding. Guardian is funded by donations. I use anonymising browsers
Don't let perfect get in the way of good enough
Don't let perfect get in the way of good enough
The thing is, we are suggesting the more realistic good, you are chasing a fantasy of more perfection based on not knowing the corporate background. Look how many championed the brave browser over the past few years, only for it to be revealed as a sham. I agree with your intent, but with little knowledge we are all open to be scammed by those offering snake oil solutions that don't really exist.
Dumping twitter, facebook and amazon are probably the sensible good, going beyond that becomes a lot more murky where the reality will rarely match the intent, which is the unobtainable "perfect".
Google are probably the worst of the worst, so hopefully you don't use chrome, watch youtube or have an android phone.
Google are probably the worst of the worst, so hopefully you don't use chrome, watch youtube or have an android phone.
OP said not:
I do not use google and am logged out of all google stuff on my phone and do not let it track me at all ( difficult but possible) so I have almost nothing to do with google either
For example the 'Signal' and 'WhatsApp' examples from above, well actually on Ubuntu you just open the Snap store from the menu and search for Signal or WhatsApp
That's really helpful, thanks. That's just what is needed
The only exception to that rule is Windows 11 - it may not work on your old PC, because they introduced a requirement for a security device that is not present on some older machines. But it might.
It certainly won't (without a hack). There's also a CPU requirement and that wasn't released until 2017.
Microsoft have massive support for old kit. Windows 10 came out ten years ago and is just ending support in October. But it still works. In fact, in the days of Windows 95/98 preserving support for old kit was a major problem for them but they still did it.
I've got a 15 year old laptop running windows 10, even though it came with Windows 7 on it.
I have a 2011 Lenovo and a 2008 Dell as a backup, the latter came with Vista. Both run Windows 10, though TBF the Dell has had a number of upgrades. The boot time between the Lenovo and the much newer (2018) i7 Portégé sat next to it running W11 is about the same. My daily driver I'm typing on right now is a desktop, the motherboard is from 2009.
Granted the old Dell is creaking these days and hardly gets used, but viewed in isolation "age" is no indicator of ability. (And the same with computers...)
Windows 10 > W11 is the first major hardware requirement leap Microsoft has made since XP > Vista.
Microsoft have also started pulling support for older kit, it became an excessive and unrealistic burden, that is not one of the reasons I would choose between one or the other unless you knew that they supported some specialist hardware that you require.
It does amuse me that two of you have attacked me for an attempt to do something even if its imperfect. I know its imperfect, I am doing what I can and merely wondered if there was an open source OS that I could use to avoid giving microsoft money.
It does amuse me that two of you have attacked me for an attempt to do something even if its imperfect
I don't think I attacked you, I just suggested that the trade off vs the learning curve might not be one be one that you want to make (although the Snap thing does change that). We rely on computers for so much of day to day life now that making that life more difficult to avoid giving Microsoft a small amount of money is a tough call. It's the same with lots of stuff now such as methods of travel, finding the right balance vs principles is tough
I know its not perfect but surely its better than not trying.
I'm certainly not attacking you, I'm just pointing out that it's only a gesture that might make you feel better. Rapacious capitalism is so completely embedded in our society (and has been for a good few hundred years) that the only thing we can do is try to affect the ballot box. That means time spent campaigning or doing something visible is better than time spent learning about Linux. That's why using Windows and Google whilst campaigning against it isn't a contradiction.
We're all trapped - gnawing off our legs to escape isn't ideal - better to try and get people to want traps banned.
Seems to be that BY FAR the biggest problem in tech is social media and what its neoliberal overlords are enabling. That dwarfs any grubby pragmatism from Microsoft or whoever.
I do like Linux, but you need to not consider yourself a techno-befuddled old man and think of yourself as someone who can learn stuff and sort things out. It's not terribly hard you just have to back yourself.
I do like Linux, but you need to not consider yourself a techno-befuddled old man and think of yourself as someone who can learn stuff and sort things out. It's not terribly hard you just have to back yourself.
Remember, if you don't pay (Linux) you aren't the product. If you do pay (Windows), you are the product.
Don't think that argument works like that. But it doesn't apply to Linux anyway.
Having said all of the above earlier, I forgot about Elementary OS, which is based on Ubuntu and actually quite pleasant to use.
It does amuse me that two of you have attacked me for an attempt to do something even if its imperfect. I know its imperfect, I am doing what I can and merely wondered if there was an open source OS that I could use to avoid giving microsoft money.
The answer to that question is a resounding 'yes'.
Just download mint and fire it up from a USB flash drive to test it out.
It will run slower from a flash drive though, rather than being installed properly, but it's fine for a test drive.. What's to lose?
Bloody hell, have you still not installed it!?
Bloody hell, have you still not installed it!?
:-=) I don't own a flash drive 🙂 Im still pondering and reading the usual info you kind folk have given me. I'm also scared 🙂 Old dog and new tricks and all that
Microsoft have also started pulling support for older kit,
Such as? I can see plenty of reasons why things might stop working, but actively pulling support? Unless by "support" you mean "no longer maintained" rather than "no longer works."
The Windows Driver Framework has only extended since Vista, it's all backwards-compatible. If a driver works in a well-behaved manner on Vista then - in theory - it should still work on Windows 11. (If you want a mind-bending insight into what a hot mess Windows drivers were prior to Vista, look up "windows driver model" on Wikipedia.) The reverse isn't true, whilst (say) a given W7 driver should work with W10, a W10 driver may not work in Windows 7. You have in essence got the opposite problem - newer hardware might not work with older OSes because the drivers simply don't exist, they were never written/updated..
Where you will definitely hit issues is with the gradual shift from predominantly 32-bit to 64-bit architecture. Modern versions of Windows are x64-only and have been for some time, so any old hardware which only ever had a 32-bit driver written for it is going to be problematic.
Way back when dinosaurs like me roamed the Earth and we were transitioning from 16- to 32-bit architecture, the 32-bit address space was already in place only hacked up into lumps so that a 16-bit CPU could see it; thus, running 16-bit apps in a 32-bit OS was relatively simple (it's a process hilariously called "thunking"). The same isn't true on Planet 64, 32-bit apps run in what you might call an emulator. After this, things get a bit complicated. 😁
None of this of course is a situation unique to Windows, or indeed to PCs.
I suppose that is one difference between Windows and Linux. Windows increasingly hides what it's doing unless you're a developer; with Linux you'd be expected to comprehend at least some of what I just wrote. 😁
with Linux you'd be expected to comprehend at least some of what I just wrote
could you write it in english please 🙂
As I'm massively over-invested in this for absolutely no reason I can think of, if you dm me your address I'll send you a USB with a live bootable/installable copy of mint or something for you to try if you want?
