I went with my family to one of the loveliest places I have seen in Wales. Blaencuffin Canyon is a disused quarry that has gone back to nature, and has now become a wonderful forest with a lake. It looks like this:
Except that once we arrived, we could hardly walk ten metres... yes, TEN METRES... without having to stop for litter. It was absolutely EVERYWHERE! We picked up as much as we could, but it was like trying to empty the sea with a teaspoon. On the paths... off the paths... under trees... around the lake... everywhere. I have never seen anything like it in all my life. Not even in the developing countries I have lived in or visited.
Honestly, what is up with that? Why that specific spot? I mean, I’ve ridden across Wales, and while I’ve seen litter in Cardiff and in the Valleys, there is just nothing to compare to what I just witnessed.
Is it just social deprivation that leads people to do this? When I mentioned it to some young adults from Cardiff, they responded by saying that that’s what they would expect ‘up there’. But every country, state, and place has its poverty, and people in socially-deprived parts of British Columbia don’t go throwing their shit all over the forests!
Anyway, make me feel better. Tell me how we - the whole of society - can diagnose and fix this.
Snipers. When a family leaves without taking their litter with them, they get shot dead and a notice put on the bodies.
These people tried to leave without clearing their shit up. Tidy up after yourselves or you'll end up like this too.
Honestly, it'd solve littering in a few weeks. I'd also look to extend the scheme to encompass vandalism and flytipping.
I feel your pain. The new pump track near my house looks like landfill every morning until the dog walkers get together to clear up the mess.
Unfortunately it's everywhere, people just don't know how to behave/act.
Thankfully we have these guys locally that I volunteer for
https://www.civic-pride.org.uk/about/
I was out with a coasteering group the other day in a remote part of Pembrokeshire.
Climbed out to a series of ledges for jumps and was overwhelmed by the amount of litter left by fishing folk. It’s only fishing folk who go there and drink shitty booze, smoke stinky tabs and leave carrier bags of decaying bait.
Then, just around the corner was a gigantapoo and bog roll. Way above the splash zone. It’ll be there until a huge southerly storm in November.
****ers. All of them.
It seems the Covid situation has led to a lot of people going to places they don't normally go to and probably have no business going to. Many of these people are young urbanites who are just f-ing ignorant and have no sense of responsibility.
Can’t wait till the masses piss off back to Benidorm and leave the wild places to those who appreciate them.
I was out with a coasteering group the other day in a remote part of Pembrokeshire.
Climbed out to a series of ledges for jumps and was overwhelmed by the amount of litter left by fishing folk. It’s only fishing folk who go there and drink shitty booze, smoke stinky tabs and leave carrier bags of decaying bait.
Then, just around the corner was a gigantapoo and bog roll. Way above the splash zone. It’ll be there until a huge southerly storm in November.
*. All of them.
I'm a sea angler, does that include me? The *. All of them bit?
It's like saying all Muslims are terrorists you tit.
Just don't get me started about Mc Bastid Donalds.
I cycled to Snettisham beach yesterday.
I went at the start of lockdown, and although not very exciting, it was fine.
Yesterday there was a giant pile of bags of dog poo, those single-use bbqs, coke bottles, poly bags of rubbish, just abandoned at the end of the track.
If you can take it in, you can take it out.
If the government had any concern for anything other than fattening their own wallets they would ban the sale of single-use bbqs, and make Coca Cola pay for their bottle cleanup.
Something is rotten in England. Sorry to see it but it’s been happening (and getting worse) for 4-5 decades. Entitlement, consumerism, ignorance, some weird resentment towards ‘do-gooders’ and a complete disconnect from the living world. When you think about it it’s inevitable. People live in bubbles. TV-phone-tablet-car-TV-retail-park-pub. Everything they’ve ‘learned’ to do (including eating and drinking) involves constant shopping for ready-cooked food, plastic and packaging, right down to a modern ‘picnic’ - which itself is so far removed from a Victorian-thru-1950s picnic as to be almost a different thing altogether. A plastic bubble filled with tiny bits of melon cubed and packed in a factory kitchen.
In their minds why should they respect nature/wildlife? It’s almost entirely alien to them, has no free wifi nor a freshly-emptied swing-top dustbin located every 20 yds.
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The biggest thing I miss about living in Switzerland is the pride people have in keeping their nation so clean and tidy. Even at festivals people seek out bins like bloodhounds. And drop litter you'd be lynched.
It has absolutely nothing to do with social deprivation.
If it did then little Jemima and Jasper would never do such a thing - but they do.
Someone will be along soon to clean up my mess - because they care; I don't.
I don't live here so don't care.
There aren't any bins - and, if there, they would be full or I couldn't be bothered so I just lobbed it in the general direction.
Some of us have posted about this before - Britain has turned into a dirty, grubby, litter infested shit-hole; addressing that isn't a vote winner; LAs are under-resourced so can't do anything - even if they wanted to.
Police are hardly blameless as they fire fast food wraps out of the window.
During lockdown there was no sign of fast food detritus on the roads near a local McDonalds; within two days of re-opening polystyrene containers, take away cups and the rest on grass verges upto 2 miles away.
I hope the arteries of the disgusting hunts responsible are now furring up leading to increased obesity and some degree of suffering.
Ignorant, dirty bastards.
Well done SaxonRider, we all need to be more like David Sedaris. We shouldn’t need to be, but we must. An army of pickers are needed to counter the huge swathes of droppers we now have. Sadly, that doesn’t earn you an extra vote, and doesn’t lose the droppers theirs… although I wouldn’t mind if it did.
I had this same conversation with my wife the other night, her response was - IMO - hard to argue against. She said "why should the youth of today give a shit for a country that does not offer much of a future for them."
I'm not condoning this behaviour as I think like the OP that people should behave better.
I noticed recently that there's a bit of land near the Avon aquaduct that is used by young folk for camping/partying. It currently looks like a dump, with the same level of rubbish as you find after a music festival.
As for peoples rubbish, why are we all told that we need to recycle more when the government could change the law tomorrow that all packaging needs to minimalist and made to be biodegradable. If I want a certain product I often don't have a choice as to how it is packaged. Again I'm not condoning peoples terrible behaviour just my opinion on a way to reduce all the waste.
Yep, people can be utter dicks
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/caravan-park-guests-told-get-18713203
As for peoples rubbish, why are we all told that we need to recycle more when the government could change the law tomorrow that all packaging needs to minimalist and made to be biodegradable.
It’s not that simple. The ‘problem’ also remains that we now ‘demand‘ cheap factory-packaged meat everyday, ready-cooked chilled meals, fruit and veg from all over the world available every season, much of it pre-peeled, pre-chopped, pre-packed. Obviously the ‘ideal’ model for ‘eternal-growth‘ capitalism is a gig economy with people working and shopping so many hours that they don’t have time to cook from raw ingredients.
So eventually nearly everything is tied up in ready-meals and fast food, and raw ingredients (once stored in glass jars by our ancestors) are now only seen/bought/used infrequently in middle-class market towns. So we developed/walked into a 24hr consumer-culture that is time-poor, knowledge-poor, entitled, socially conformant and with a whole world of choice ready-packed from mini-markets, 24hr garages and range of takeaways located in every development. It’s the American dream.
The original supplier of the eventual waste also needs focus. I can't understand how Monster/Red bull/McD's/Costa etc can't educate their customers to responsibly ditch their packagings. After all I see their waste strewn everywhere and dont want associate myself with those brands and their scruffy **** clients.
I did start a thread about would it be possible to invoice the usual suspect brand's for picking their litter up and binning it
It seems the Covid situation has led to a lot of people going to places they don’t normally go to
I'm in support of this. We have some amazing places. I want everyone to enjoy them.
and probably have no business going to.
As much business as I has ever had, cycling, exploring, climbing (in this particular area) and just not being at home. I was lucky too - by lucky I mean taken places by people who had a strong sense of the enviromental impact I could potentially leave and were patient in explaining about where I was and the importance of preserving such places.
Many of these people are young urbanites who are just f-ing ignorant and have no sense of responsibility.
Yes that was me and I have spent 30 years actively doing something - small admittedly - to educate others. I have no idea if I made a difference and I wish this wasn't a problem we have, but shouting in a forum they won't see won't change things
I had this same conversation with my wife the other night, her response was – IMO – hard to argue against. She said “why should the youth of today give a shit for a country that does not offer much of a future for them.”
Feeling like a future is 'offered' rather than obtained/strived for is perhaps what hints at the mindset that creates the problem we have.
It’s appalling this year so has something to do with lockdown, what, I’m not exactly sure but more people frustrated that they are entitled to do what they want and sod everyone else.
I saw Glencoe had shut the car park now as so many vans were staying and not paying into the honesty box but using the water and facilities etc. Also not leaving contact tracing details. Fair play as when I went past it looked like a caravan site! It’s quite saddening to see the amount of shite and rubbish.
As a fisherman and a cyclist, this is something that really annoys me!!
What is the solution?
I think, like mentioned above, the government and the retailers need to do more to educated the masses!!!
I challenged some teens recently over littering, and there response was "the council will be around in a minute to clear up, and we are creating jobs"
This made me really mad, I had to walk away, as I was finding it tough to keep my cool!!!!
One thing that seems to help here in Sweden is the use of a deposit scheme on cans and plastic bottles. The deposit is not much (1kr or 2kr if the plastic bottle is large), but it does give people an incentive to recycle them. If they do dump it or throw them in the bin, there are a lot of people (most of which appear, sadly, to be Syrian refugees) that hunt down the bottles and claim back the deposit for themselves.
But, despite this being just for cans and bottles, I see less shit on the paths and roads here than I ever did in the U.K. I really think it is because there is more social responsibility here, together with a more expensive fast-food culture. It may be cheaper and more relied on in some parts, but people generally seem to use it as a treat than a normal meal.
New types of people going into the countryside with no understanding of nature.they should stay at home until they learn about the great outdoors.
Yep snipers in trees for people who litter, leave their dog crap or throw the bag of dog crap into the undergrowth or trees. Only aim for the knees rather than the head.
But on a serious note I've had a similar conversation to the above with my wife. I like the idea of companies whose products tend to get littered a lot being charged for it. Another option is to print a qr code or similar onto packaging identifying the customer. That way if it is found they get charged for it directly.
Problem is that will take a small army of people to oversee.
I like the idea of getting a deposit back on cans and bottles. Remember taking the Corona pop bottles back to the corner shop for my gran and getting to keep the money.
But yeah also maybe get people to bring their own containers. We can do it for coffee so why not other items?
"I've had to cancel my holiday to Mallorca and come to this shithole instead, so I can do whatever I like because I am a special case".
It seems simple to me.
barcode on packaging Automatically linked to the bank account of the purchasers contactless payment.
Council worker/litter picker scans item and a small fine is taken directly from the bank account.
“I didn’t drop it, it was my mate” tough shit.
“I’ve gone over drawn because of the fine” tough shit.
“I can’t afford to pay the fine” tough shit...
And so on.
Good idea.
crazy-legs
Snipers. When a family leaves without taking their litter with them, they get shot dead and a notice put on the bodies.
Count me in. How do I apply?
My main qualifications are as a marksman with an old .303 in the CCF, and a hatred of ignorant bastids who have never worked out that their litter isn't someone else's problem.
I'd pay to do the job, I'd buy my own rifle and rounds, and I'd take pride in crippling the little ****ers.
It was drummed into us as children of the 70s that if you carry it in, you carry it out again. Climber, walker, camper, angler (sea and fresh), cyclist, whatever.
Well done on clearing up what you could But I'm flabbergasted as to why some just discard they things. Is it thoughtlessness, or something going on upstairs where they just dont see what they are doing is utterly wrong.
Although we've been lucky, when me and the mate go to the Etive campsite(unofficial) both of us walk the area with bin bags and clear up al detritus left by previous campers(Mostly canoers, never trusted that type, no motor no sail 😕 hmmmm suspicious... )
We do it because the landowner has a habit of wandering past and we'd rather they didn't think we were making a mess. Besides at the little car park, there is a bin and obvious area to put bin bags.
We never do because my mate burns anything 😆
Can’t wait till the masses piss off back to Benidorm and leave the wild places to those who appreciate them.
This ^^^
The canyon in the OP is just up the road from me, its always been a shithole full of halfwits. During lockdown proper, the police were up there most days fining/moving people on, and they'd come from all over to get there. And as for people swimming in it, they have no idea whats been dumped/drowned/leached into it over the years, I wouldnt dip my toe in it.
I realised after reading this last night that I've been ranting about all the rubbish I've seen on my runs recently, but doing very little about it. So i changed that this morning, bit awkward running with a rubbish bag but worth it hopefully. I think there is an element of once there is rubbish there, it makes it easier for others to.
It’s blatant. I’m not convinced it’s as simple as “people don’t know how to behave when out in nature” although there’s that too. I think it’s linked to exceptionalism, ignorance, entitlement and the sense of being the centre of the universe. People are heading out into the countryside with the belief that only they exist in that moment - me, myself and I is all that matters. Ignorant for sure but then look at the political landscape we’re in.
similar thing this morning at one of the local beaches after 3+ coach loads of revellers bussed in from London yesterday. Complete disregard for not only the environment but the local community/residents. No social distancing either. Ticketed event organised by a restaurant, maybe they thought the organisers would clean up the rubbish (they didn't, obviously). Loads of rubbish on the beach, smashed glass in the streets, etc. No toilets provided also so peoples' front gardens shat in. Hopefully the organisers can be taken to task, apparently they are having another one somewhere else this weekend though - which lucky community will be next 😂
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^^^ Seriously? How in the hell do they (the organisers) think hat is a reasonable thing to do or allow? I _really_ hope the local council sends them a bill for the cleanup and, if legally possible, fines them for allowing it to happen. Surely that is anti-scoial behaviour?
It's been said before (on here) - there's a sizeable cohort of people in Britain that can only behave as societal human when they are vigorously and persistently reminded that blind, furious punishment violence is just a tossed pop can away - always has been, always will - "your not the boss of me!"
Nothing to do with social depravation. Millions of no paid/low paid use bins, just fine.
top notch jam bo
We have to challenge the litter dropping scum. I wonder how many of us, if we witness litter being dropped, will challenge the offender. I've done it numerous times and the usual result, I am pleased to report, is not a smack in the face but a bashful apology followed by them picking up the rubbish and binning it. Admittedly, I choose my moments and would likely not challenge a group of yoofs.
I live in The Lakes and this weekend is the busiest I have ever seen the place and on a ride yesterday I was sickened by the amount of litter. No police of wardens so we are reliant upon the these visitors being socially minded to leave places as they find them.
Seem like quite a few blaming "the young". While some are ****s and littering I would say it mainly self entitled middle aged and older people dropping litter. Most young people are more conscious and will call out mates when they drop litter, difference is its the loud groups of young people who leave the litter while the quiet "pleasant family" who do it subtley so are not noticed.
can't say that rings at all true with what I've seen personally. There are videos on YT of the beach event I pictured earlier, it's 99.9% young people. In contrast all the half-dozen or so locals who have spent their morning clearing up other peoples' crap seem to be middle-aged:I would say it mainly self entitled middle aged and older people dropping litter.
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Seem like quite a few blaming “the young”.
can’t say that rings at all true with what I’ve seen personally.
Where do you think they learn that behaviour from? People don't get taught to pick up their rubbish then one day just decide to **** it all and leave it at their arse. Yes, it's the young but it's also those that teach them it's fine, you only have to visit Loch Lomond of a sunny weekend or take a trip round the NC500 to see exactly the same shit (literally, in many cases) being left by young and old alike.
is that why knife-crime is so popular with young people as well? Because they've seen all the old fogeys doing it & they're copying them? 😂
I had this same conversation with my wife the other night, her response was – IMO – hard to argue against. She said “why should the youth of today give a shit for a country that does not offer much of a future for them.”
It's pretty easy to argue against. It's a lazy stereotype and a rash generalisation. Bashing "Millennials" is a popular sport for some, banging on about the 'youth of today' despite some Millennials now approaching the age of 40. There's two things wrong with this.
Firstly it's "othering." It assumes that it's just the youths that are the problem, and by implication it's therefore not our fault, it's their fault. And sure, it might be the fault of a marauding band of 13-year olds that my front garden is perpetually full of crisp packets and Red Bull cans, but I doubt they're responsible for the pile of Stella cans stuffed under tree roots that I saw up near the river yesterday.
Secondly it's the pineapple-ringed spectacles assertion that it wasn't like this "back in the day" and it's somehow a new phenomenon, and that's equally bogus. It's been a problem in this country at least my entire life. I remember the "Keep Britain Tidy" campaign, we were being told not to be scruffy bastards back in the '70s.
There is something inexplicably endemic in this country's psyche that seemingly compels us to just dump our shit for other people to deal with. Dog eggs, fag ends, beer cans, pop bottles, takeaway food... it's so ubiquitous that you just stop seeing it. Every time I've been on holiday it's the first thing I've noticed coming home, just how much crap there is blowing around compared to where I've just returned from.
And I don't know what the solution is. I don't think it's education, it's not that people don't know what bins are for, it's that many of them just don't give a shit. It's preferable to hoy your McD's wrappers out of the car window rather than having it slosh around in your car where you might get ketchup on the upholstery.
Enforcement might work, there's been a drive in some towns near where I live in East Lancashire where they've had PCSOs handing out fixed penalties for littering. Though IME this is a cynical fund raiser rather than an attempt to actually tackle the problem. I posted about this at the time, a friend of mine got done for dropping a cigarette end - except, he threw it down a drainage grate so as to not drop litter, they pulled him with a lecture about polluting waterways or some such. Never mentioned litter once, the first he knew of it was when he read the PCN after they'd buggered off.
Maybe putting more effort into cleaning up would help, in urban areas at least? It's easier to drop litter into an existing pile, what's one more crisp packet? Sounds like an ideal role for community service, spending a week picking up other people's crap might well be a more effective deterrent for littering than a spot fine.
is that why knife-crime is so popular with young people as well? Because they’ve seen all the old fogeys doing it & they’re copying them?
Balisongs weren't banned in 1989 for nothing, 7 years later there was the Offensive Weapons Act 1996. Knife crime has been a thing for generations so to answer your crap retort, yes, they most likely have.
posted about this at the time, a friend of mine got done for dropping a cigarette end – except, he threw it down a drainage grate so as to not drop litter, they pulled him with a lecture about polluting waterways or some such. Never mentioned litter once, the first he knew of it was when he read the PCN after they’d buggered off.
did he think it was a magic portal to the recycling centre?
frankconway
SubscriberIt has absolutely nothing to do with social deprivation.
It does have something to do with it, because I volunteer on a litter pick and the litter is worse in poor areas (including unfortunately my own area).
Everywhere here is bad for littering compared to other countries though. I've just got back from France and the difference was stark.
I was on Le Touquet beach, it was pretty busy with tourists and there are sand dunes beside it you can play on. I didn't see a single bit of rubbish. If this beach were in England, guarantee the bushes in those dunes would be stuffed full of old drinks bottles, crisps packets, chips trays etc.
God knows how you stop it. Its endemic across the country
No pride in anything..
Plus people who think everything is disposable. I wonder how many of these people watched say the blue planet and got all righteous about plastic waste but fail to see the link with what they do.
I do think education is needed not as in this is bin type but give people an understanding of what things are such as types of trees etc. As its easier to not give a f%$k if you dont know what anything is.
did he think it was a magic portal to the recycling centre?
Pass. He was mostly aggrieved that they'd flat out lied to him about what they were charging him with.
Like I said, I posted on here at the time asking for advice and the overwhelming majority was lambasting him for it so whatever he thought, the angry mob disagreed.
do think education is needed not as in this is bin type but give people an understanding of what things are such as types of trees etc. As its easier to not give a f%$k if you dont know what anything is.
Maybe Joe Rogan can help them.
- Does anyone know what a ‘crested newt’ is?
- Isn’t a newt like a little lizard dude but, sorta not a lizard? Like a long frog.
- Can I hunt it?
- (Laughter)
- Yeah I bet you could eat that little mother****er
- You totally could
- Pure protein man. Pure.
- I still wanna burned monkey, those ****ers have to taste really, you know, real
- Yeah, they’re not monkeys, they’re orang-u-tans
- Yea that. I feel bad for saying it but, I’d fight a burning ape and it’s family for a bit of that monkeysteak
- Because?
- Because cancel culture, man. You gotta fight back. They want us to eat soy.
- Is soy the stuff that turns frogs gay?
- Yeah I heard something about that I need to look into it. We should totally do that
- Can newts be turned gay like frogs?
- ... (laughter)
I remember the “Keep Britain Tidy” campaign, we were being told not to be scruffy bastards back in the ’70s.
Here's a photo of Thatcher doing the same thing in the 1980s I can't remember when the last "Tidy up after yourself you Scruffy Layabout" campaign was, but I doubt it was recently. I think you have to constantly batter folk with this message, and while the Keep Britain Tidy unhinged man logo is still knocking about, the fact that LAs are starved of money, there's a perceived lack of bins (because; Terrorism), and that damn near everything these days comes in a disposable wrapper makes it all much harder.
Yes folk need to take some responsibility for this stuff, but I've volunteered to collect rubbish after raves in the 90's and some of those fields were bio-hazards. Idiots will be...as the saying goes
Anyway, Thatcher; here she is, the saucy old minx, cleaning up...Note she's doing the picking up, while poor old Dennis has to carry the bag...
Remember back in the day when it was "travellers" who used to pitch up somewhere, trash the place and then move on whilst suffering no consequences for their actions and leaving the locals, through their rates and taxes, to pick up the bill?
Seems like everyone is jumping on that same bandwagon.
If we are to employ snipers to enforce the problem, we have to make sure that they pick up the shell cartridge with them lest they are seen to be seen littering themselves.
I was thinking a paintball gun might be a more humane solution but after the pellet hits the intended arse its plastic casing would then be seen as litter.
So the 303 round it is then, provided the cartridge is taken home by the shooter. It would also be essential that they were a good shot so as to ensure the littering arse took the bullet home with them too, (embedded in their respective arse)
Failing that the Government could do something......Anything?
Photos of pot noodles, beer cans, takeaway coffee cups, supermarket own brand drinks and a lot of other unidentified stuff.
Yet some people are quick to jump on blaming McDonalds and Coke. I wonder why the countries most popular fast food restaurant, and the worlds most popular soft drink, with two of the worlds most recognisable logos produces the most recognised rubbish in some peoples eyes.
Some proper month ruining 3 or 4 figure spot fines (with no leniency for poverty) will quickly get the message across.
I wonder how many of these people watched say the blue planet and got all righteous about plastic waste but fail to see the link with what they do.
Probably most...
Yet some people are quick to jump on blaming McDonalds and Coke.
Good shout. I meant to say something similar in response earlier and forgot.
Suggesting some sort of tax or levy sounds great in theory but it's not just McDs, they're simply high profile. What about the local chippie; the off-licence; the newsagent loading kids up with Mars bars and their parents with cigarettes? In the latest round of shitwittery, the floors of supermarket car-parks near me are littered with latex gloves and disposable facemasks. Bunch of savages in this town.
Some proper month ruining 3 or 4 figure spot fines (with no leniency for poverty)
What do you propose people who have no money should pay a 4-figure fine with? Fish?
Absolutely not condoning this, but perhaps a little less hyperbole might help get your head around the situation. Is it "one of the most disgusting, despicable things ever"? presumably ranking above:
- child abuse
- FGM
- racist attacks by police officers in the world's largest democracy
- gratuitous animal cruelty
- people who fought for the country having to live on the streets because of the mental health issues they got whilst doing their job
- thousands of tons of explosive going bang in a foreign city, its causes and consequences being less newsworthy than which UK castle will host I'm a Z-list celebrity
- dozens on people killed each year on our roads by inattentive drivers
On the grand ranking of things - dropping litter is understandably not that major a misdemeanour, and once two or three people have done it and the area is no longer pristine many others feel entitled to do they same - as why should they bother. Its certainly not a specifically a young person thing - I see it in places where young people would be rare. A lot of the waste I see is from people who can afford big brands - so its also not a true social deprivation issue. Its not new, but it is worse right now. Everywhere is busier, and that may be a factor. I'm also sure that refuse collection/public bins/recycling closures is also an issue - there probably were good reasons to close these things for Covid but it feels like LA's have been slow to get things back in service. Similarly, there are issues with "wild toiletting" which are exaggerated because public toilets are not back in service. Perhaps we need to get music festivals open so people who want to behave like selfish idiots and make a total mess can do so in a fenced in area.
But, I'd be surprised if some of those on their high horse about it - haven't also done some unauthorised trail building with a shovel and saw etc... Certainly I'm sure not everyone of us caries tools for burying a stool if we get caught short at the trailside.
What do you propose people who have no money should pay a 4-figure fine with? Fish?
No money? How about a few hours enforced litter picking?
In fact, scrub the fines; you're doing litter picking.
Absolutely not condoning this, but perhaps a little less hyperbole might help get your head around the situation. Is it “one of the most disgusting, despicable things ever”? presumably ranking above: [assorted whataboutery]
Whilst technically correct this is hardly the crux of the matter now, is it. Justifying bad things because worse things exist is woolly thinking.
No money? How about a few hours enforced litter picking?
In fact, scrub the fines; you’re doing litter picking.
Agreed, and that's exactly what I suggested further up this page.
The post I was replying to said 'spot fine no exceptions,' I was wondering how AJW envisioned that was going to work with, say, homeless people. They could sell one of their lesser-used internal organs perhaps?
– gratuitous animal cruelty
‘gratuitous’? Infers that there are times when cruelty is required/called for?
*edit. Second thoughts, ie taking calfs away from their mothers is objectively cruel. But it’s also ‘called for’ by dairy industry. Now I’m confused.
If we are to employ snipers to enforce the problem, we have to make sure that they pick up the shell cartridge with them lest they are seen to be seen littering themselves.
I was thinking a paintball gun might be a more humane solution but after the pellet hits the intended arse its plastic casing would then be seen as litter.
So the 303 round it is then, provided the cartridge is taken home by the shooter.
You're not wrong in principle, @inkster, but I do also remember that we all had to (honestly) make the declaration at the end of a day on the range "I declare that I have no live rounds or empty cases in my possession, SIR!". So perhaps that bit needs a bit of work. Hmm....
Our local Civic Pride issue rolls of council supplied green coloured bin bags - you can leave them next to any council bin for collection by the LA van when they are doing the litter bin rounds.
Might be worth enquiring with LA if similar bags are available for anyone who is wanting to litter pick
This seems to be a growing problem that needs more than a minority of socially-minded volunteers to address.
I’m really saddened and angry about the volume of litter and human waste being dumped all over Britain and I disagree that it’s “not a major misdemeanour”. It a part of this growing lack of interest and respect for nature. It’s far more serious than an eyesore or a nuisance for local councils, it’s pollution and destruction of natural habitats. During lockdown I had a hope that we might learn something from the Covid19 pandemic and start respecting the earth, but no, we seem to have less respect than before.
I agree with Cougar that it’s not primarily a lack of education. We all know what bins are for and respect for the environment is a bigger topic than ever in schools and in the news. I don’t know what the solution is, but perhaps the government need pressure to do something about it?
‘gratuitous’? Infers that there are times when cruelty is required/called for?
Battery farming?
Religious / traditional reasons (not all countries are first-world)?
Drugs (etc) testing and other sciencey research?
Sport (for some value of 'required')?
If I remember 25 yrs ago, one of the big supermarkets were successfully prosecuted by the Environment Agency. Can’t remember the technicalities but the crime was shopping trollies in a stream, the argument being the supermarket was not doing enough to stop the pollution ie was part of the problem. Perhaps a similar test case could be brought these days?
I rode past the Anglezarke lookout this Sunday, it was nice during the start of lockdown. Tons of rubbish, fast food, those metal gas cylinders, bottles misc items.
Rather than cleaning it up. Why not just let the crap mount up?
These people are obviously lazy, t they won’t bother travelling further and will continue to visit and little until it reaches a tipping point?
I was thinking the same earlier. But a "tipping point" is exactly what it will become only not in the sense that you meant.
Should get a law passed to print names and postcodes on all takeaway food and dog poo bags. Then get one of those vicious private car park operators to enforce and prosecute. That’d help!
I was thinking that letting it mount up to hideous stinking piles of rubbish is one way of getting the message across, but on beaches or near rivers (for example) there’s too much risk of water pollution and risk to wildlife. Plus, I think the offenders would just move on to other places until they trash the entire country 🙄
Feeling like a future is
‘offered’entitled rather than obtained/strived for is perhaps what hints at the mindset that creates the problem we have.
In a thread above, I mentioned the trash left by the river in Lacock, and the fact that some was still there, sports socks and underwear that very clearly belonged to teens/twenties, but what I forgot to mention was the sign left upside down by the road where most of the shitbags had accessed the field and the river.
It warned against swimming in the river due to a sewage outfall a little way upstream...
I dearly hope there was a big outbreak of violent gastrointestinal outbreaks among lots of the local youth population as a result of their filthy behaviour.
Kharma is a bitch...
I was thinking that letting it mount up to hideous stinking piles of rubbish is one way of getting the message across
You're assuming that they care, and if they cared then they wouldn't do it in the first place. A big pile of rubbish just nurtures the attitude "well it's already full of shit, what's another crisp packet?"
Whilst technically correct this is hardly the crux of the matter now, is it. Justifying bad things because worse things exist is woolly thinking.
No it wasn’t whataboutery - it was pointing out that whilst it’s a perfectly valid thing to be concerned about the thread title is over exaggerated nonsense - which does little to make the OPS concerns seem credible.
People use hyperbole for effect all the time. Of course littering isn't as bad as whatever else you listed back there, FGM or hammering frozen sausages into dogs bums or whatever, but no-one up to and including the OP was actually seriously asserting that this was the case.
And it's absolutely whataboutery because you're focusing on something relatively irrelevant (the OP's arguably poor choice of language) which stands to derail the thread rather than engaging in the actual topic.
Jeez poly are you that guy who when someone says 'there's nothing worse than scraping nails down a blackboard' you reply 'yeah there is, rape' 🙄
The biggest thing I miss about living in Switzerland
Q: What's the best thing about living in Switzerland?
A: Not sure but the flag's a big plus.
Blame Thatcher!
During the IRA bombing campaigns all street bins were removed so a generation grew up not using bins along with the me me me culture she espoused
Nah can’t blame fatcha that some people DGAF.
It’s definitely any eye opening spin off of Covid thou, perceived suspension of speed limits,Parking restrictions,fly tipping and the general trashing of anywhere nice.
They got it wrong in all post apocalypse movies, they just needed to empty bins all over the place and piles of building waste/plaster board old kitchens and McDonald boxes with turds in.
Some litter leavers are lazy, but others do it deliberately. They're showing their mates that they are independent and don't follow the establishment rules. A bit like teenagers smoking.
Are other countries suffering form this like we are in the UK?
its a race to the bottom I'm afraid, and the UK seem to be in the lead IMHO 🙁
as mentioned above, as a 60's kid I was always told to take my stuff home and don't litter, I'm sure some of that has been lost or at least not instilled into kids the same.
But in truth there is loads of factors making this happen, all of which can be sorted if people can be arsed that is.
(and yes some of the solution is a sniper) 😉
why should the youth of today give a shit for a country that does not offer much of a future for them
What a load of guff, maybe they are being force fed nonsense that the future is bleak - climate apocalypse, a return to Victorian Britain post Brexit etc, but really? Your future is what you make it and has endless possibilities - if you can be bothered to strive for them, rather than expecting them on a plate. We live in the UK, not Somalia
Blame Thatcher!
You know, I don't really think it's her fault... Look, loads of folk go to honey pot sites...They can't go abroad, so they think I know, lets have a nice picnic by the river/waterfall/middle of nowhere, and they just bring too much much shit, and they realise that there are no bins (why would there be, it's the middle of nowhere) so they just leave it.
most folk aren't litterbugs, they just don't think, and once some-one's left some crap, they all do.