frankconway
SubscriberIt has absolutely nothing to do with social deprivation.
It does have something to do with it, because I volunteer on a litter pick and the litter is worse in poor areas (including unfortunately my own area).
Everywhere here is bad for littering compared to other countries though. I've just got back from France and the difference was stark.
I was on Le Touquet beach, it was pretty busy with tourists and there are sand dunes beside it you can play on. I didn't see a single bit of rubbish. If this beach were in England, guarantee the bushes in those dunes would be stuffed full of old drinks bottles, crisps packets, chips trays etc.
God knows how you stop it. Its endemic across the country
No pride in anything..
Plus people who think everything is disposable. I wonder how many of these people watched say the blue planet and got all righteous about plastic waste but fail to see the link with what they do.
I do think education is needed not as in this is bin type but give people an understanding of what things are such as types of trees etc. As its easier to not give a f%$k if you dont know what anything is.
did he think it was a magic portal to the recycling centre?
Pass. He was mostly aggrieved that they'd flat out lied to him about what they were charging him with.
Like I said, I posted on here at the time asking for advice and the overwhelming majority was lambasting him for it so whatever he thought, the angry mob disagreed.
do think education is needed not as in this is bin type but give people an understanding of what things are such as types of trees etc. As its easier to not give a f%$k if you dont know what anything is.
Maybe Joe Rogan can help them.
- Does anyone know what a ‘crested newt’ is?
- Isn’t a newt like a little lizard dude but, sorta not a lizard? Like a long frog.
- Can I hunt it?
- (Laughter)
- Yeah I bet you could eat that little mother****er
- You totally could
- Pure protein man. Pure.
- I still wanna burned monkey, those ****ers have to taste really, you know, real
- Yeah, they’re not monkeys, they’re orang-u-tans
- Yea that. I feel bad for saying it but, I’d fight a burning ape and it’s family for a bit of that monkeysteak
- Because?
- Because cancel culture, man. You gotta fight back. They want us to eat soy.
- Is soy the stuff that turns frogs gay?
- Yeah I heard something about that I need to look into it. We should totally do that
- Can newts be turned gay like frogs?
- ... (laughter)
I remember the “Keep Britain Tidy” campaign, we were being told not to be scruffy bastards back in the ’70s.
Here's a photo of Thatcher doing the same thing in the 1980s I can't remember when the last "Tidy up after yourself you Scruffy Layabout" campaign was, but I doubt it was recently. I think you have to constantly batter folk with this message, and while the Keep Britain Tidy unhinged man logo is still knocking about, the fact that LAs are starved of money, there's a perceived lack of bins (because; Terrorism), and that damn near everything these days comes in a disposable wrapper makes it all much harder.
Yes folk need to take some responsibility for this stuff, but I've volunteered to collect rubbish after raves in the 90's and some of those fields were bio-hazards. Idiots will be...as the saying goes
Anyway, Thatcher; here she is, the saucy old minx, cleaning up...Note she's doing the picking up, while poor old Dennis has to carry the bag...
Remember back in the day when it was "travellers" who used to pitch up somewhere, trash the place and then move on whilst suffering no consequences for their actions and leaving the locals, through their rates and taxes, to pick up the bill?
Seems like everyone is jumping on that same bandwagon.
If we are to employ snipers to enforce the problem, we have to make sure that they pick up the shell cartridge with them lest they are seen to be seen littering themselves.
I was thinking a paintball gun might be a more humane solution but after the pellet hits the intended arse its plastic casing would then be seen as litter.
So the 303 round it is then, provided the cartridge is taken home by the shooter. It would also be essential that they were a good shot so as to ensure the littering arse took the bullet home with them too, (embedded in their respective arse)
Failing that the Government could do something......Anything?
Photos of pot noodles, beer cans, takeaway coffee cups, supermarket own brand drinks and a lot of other unidentified stuff.
Yet some people are quick to jump on blaming McDonalds and Coke. I wonder why the countries most popular fast food restaurant, and the worlds most popular soft drink, with two of the worlds most recognisable logos produces the most recognised rubbish in some peoples eyes.
Some proper month ruining 3 or 4 figure spot fines (with no leniency for poverty) will quickly get the message across.
I wonder how many of these people watched say the blue planet and got all righteous about plastic waste but fail to see the link with what they do.
Probably most...
Yet some people are quick to jump on blaming McDonalds and Coke.
Good shout. I meant to say something similar in response earlier and forgot.
Suggesting some sort of tax or levy sounds great in theory but it's not just McDs, they're simply high profile. What about the local chippie; the off-licence; the newsagent loading kids up with Mars bars and their parents with cigarettes? In the latest round of shitwittery, the floors of supermarket car-parks near me are littered with latex gloves and disposable facemasks. Bunch of savages in this town.
Some proper month ruining 3 or 4 figure spot fines (with no leniency for poverty)
What do you propose people who have no money should pay a 4-figure fine with? Fish?
Absolutely not condoning this, but perhaps a little less hyperbole might help get your head around the situation. Is it "one of the most disgusting, despicable things ever"? presumably ranking above:
- child abuse
- FGM
- racist attacks by police officers in the world's largest democracy
- gratuitous animal cruelty
- people who fought for the country having to live on the streets because of the mental health issues they got whilst doing their job
- thousands of tons of explosive going bang in a foreign city, its causes and consequences being less newsworthy than which UK castle will host I'm a Z-list celebrity
- dozens on people killed each year on our roads by inattentive drivers
On the grand ranking of things - dropping litter is understandably not that major a misdemeanour, and once two or three people have done it and the area is no longer pristine many others feel entitled to do they same - as why should they bother. Its certainly not a specifically a young person thing - I see it in places where young people would be rare. A lot of the waste I see is from people who can afford big brands - so its also not a true social deprivation issue. Its not new, but it is worse right now. Everywhere is busier, and that may be a factor. I'm also sure that refuse collection/public bins/recycling closures is also an issue - there probably were good reasons to close these things for Covid but it feels like LA's have been slow to get things back in service. Similarly, there are issues with "wild toiletting" which are exaggerated because public toilets are not back in service. Perhaps we need to get music festivals open so people who want to behave like selfish idiots and make a total mess can do so in a fenced in area.
But, I'd be surprised if some of those on their high horse about it - haven't also done some unauthorised trail building with a shovel and saw etc... Certainly I'm sure not everyone of us caries tools for burying a stool if we get caught short at the trailside.
What do you propose people who have no money should pay a 4-figure fine with? Fish?
No money? How about a few hours enforced litter picking?
In fact, scrub the fines; you're doing litter picking.
Absolutely not condoning this, but perhaps a little less hyperbole might help get your head around the situation. Is it “one of the most disgusting, despicable things ever”? presumably ranking above: [assorted whataboutery]
Whilst technically correct this is hardly the crux of the matter now, is it. Justifying bad things because worse things exist is woolly thinking.
No money? How about a few hours enforced litter picking?
In fact, scrub the fines; you’re doing litter picking.
Agreed, and that's exactly what I suggested further up this page.
The post I was replying to said 'spot fine no exceptions,' I was wondering how AJW envisioned that was going to work with, say, homeless people. They could sell one of their lesser-used internal organs perhaps?
– gratuitous animal cruelty
‘gratuitous’? Infers that there are times when cruelty is required/called for?
*edit. Second thoughts, ie taking calfs away from their mothers is objectively cruel. But it’s also ‘called for’ by dairy industry. Now I’m confused.
If we are to employ snipers to enforce the problem, we have to make sure that they pick up the shell cartridge with them lest they are seen to be seen littering themselves.
I was thinking a paintball gun might be a more humane solution but after the pellet hits the intended arse its plastic casing would then be seen as litter.
So the 303 round it is then, provided the cartridge is taken home by the shooter.
You're not wrong in principle, @inkster, but I do also remember that we all had to (honestly) make the declaration at the end of a day on the range "I declare that I have no live rounds or empty cases in my possession, SIR!". So perhaps that bit needs a bit of work. Hmm....
Our local Civic Pride issue rolls of council supplied green coloured bin bags - you can leave them next to any council bin for collection by the LA van when they are doing the litter bin rounds.
Might be worth enquiring with LA if similar bags are available for anyone who is wanting to litter pick
This seems to be a growing problem that needs more than a minority of socially-minded volunteers to address.
I’m really saddened and angry about the volume of litter and human waste being dumped all over Britain and I disagree that it’s “not a major misdemeanour”. It a part of this growing lack of interest and respect for nature. It’s far more serious than an eyesore or a nuisance for local councils, it’s pollution and destruction of natural habitats. During lockdown I had a hope that we might learn something from the Covid19 pandemic and start respecting the earth, but no, we seem to have less respect than before.
I agree with Cougar that it’s not primarily a lack of education. We all know what bins are for and respect for the environment is a bigger topic than ever in schools and in the news. I don’t know what the solution is, but perhaps the government need pressure to do something about it?
‘gratuitous’? Infers that there are times when cruelty is required/called for?
Battery farming?
Religious / traditional reasons (not all countries are first-world)?
Drugs (etc) testing and other sciencey research?
Sport (for some value of 'required')?
If I remember 25 yrs ago, one of the big supermarkets were successfully prosecuted by the Environment Agency. Can’t remember the technicalities but the crime was shopping trollies in a stream, the argument being the supermarket was not doing enough to stop the pollution ie was part of the problem. Perhaps a similar test case could be brought these days?
I rode past the Anglezarke lookout this Sunday, it was nice during the start of lockdown. Tons of rubbish, fast food, those metal gas cylinders, bottles misc items.
Rather than cleaning it up. Why not just let the crap mount up?
These people are obviously lazy, t they won’t bother travelling further and will continue to visit and little until it reaches a tipping point?
I was thinking the same earlier. But a "tipping point" is exactly what it will become only not in the sense that you meant.
Should get a law passed to print names and postcodes on all takeaway food and dog poo bags. Then get one of those vicious private car park operators to enforce and prosecute. That’d help!
I was thinking that letting it mount up to hideous stinking piles of rubbish is one way of getting the message across, but on beaches or near rivers (for example) there’s too much risk of water pollution and risk to wildlife. Plus, I think the offenders would just move on to other places until they trash the entire country 🙄
Feeling like a future is
‘offered’entitled rather than obtained/strived for is perhaps what hints at the mindset that creates the problem we have.
In a thread above, I mentioned the trash left by the river in Lacock, and the fact that some was still there, sports socks and underwear that very clearly belonged to teens/twenties, but what I forgot to mention was the sign left upside down by the road where most of the shitbags had accessed the field and the river.
It warned against swimming in the river due to a sewage outfall a little way upstream...
I dearly hope there was a big outbreak of violent gastrointestinal outbreaks among lots of the local youth population as a result of their filthy behaviour.
Kharma is a bitch...
I was thinking that letting it mount up to hideous stinking piles of rubbish is one way of getting the message across
You're assuming that they care, and if they cared then they wouldn't do it in the first place. A big pile of rubbish just nurtures the attitude "well it's already full of shit, what's another crisp packet?"
Whilst technically correct this is hardly the crux of the matter now, is it. Justifying bad things because worse things exist is woolly thinking.
No it wasn’t whataboutery - it was pointing out that whilst it’s a perfectly valid thing to be concerned about the thread title is over exaggerated nonsense - which does little to make the OPS concerns seem credible.
People use hyperbole for effect all the time. Of course littering isn't as bad as whatever else you listed back there, FGM or hammering frozen sausages into dogs bums or whatever, but no-one up to and including the OP was actually seriously asserting that this was the case.
And it's absolutely whataboutery because you're focusing on something relatively irrelevant (the OP's arguably poor choice of language) which stands to derail the thread rather than engaging in the actual topic.
Jeez poly are you that guy who when someone says 'there's nothing worse than scraping nails down a blackboard' you reply 'yeah there is, rape' 🙄
The biggest thing I miss about living in Switzerland
Q: What's the best thing about living in Switzerland?
A: Not sure but the flag's a big plus.
Blame Thatcher!
During the IRA bombing campaigns all street bins were removed so a generation grew up not using bins along with the me me me culture she espoused
Nah can’t blame fatcha that some people DGAF.
It’s definitely any eye opening spin off of Covid thou, perceived suspension of speed limits,Parking restrictions,fly tipping and the general trashing of anywhere nice.
They got it wrong in all post apocalypse movies, they just needed to empty bins all over the place and piles of building waste/plaster board old kitchens and McDonald boxes with turds in.
Some litter leavers are lazy, but others do it deliberately. They're showing their mates that they are independent and don't follow the establishment rules. A bit like teenagers smoking.
Are other countries suffering form this like we are in the UK?
its a race to the bottom I'm afraid, and the UK seem to be in the lead IMHO 🙁
as mentioned above, as a 60's kid I was always told to take my stuff home and don't litter, I'm sure some of that has been lost or at least not instilled into kids the same.
But in truth there is loads of factors making this happen, all of which can be sorted if people can be arsed that is.
(and yes some of the solution is a sniper) 😉
why should the youth of today give a shit for a country that does not offer much of a future for them
What a load of guff, maybe they are being force fed nonsense that the future is bleak - climate apocalypse, a return to Victorian Britain post Brexit etc, but really? Your future is what you make it and has endless possibilities - if you can be bothered to strive for them, rather than expecting them on a plate. We live in the UK, not Somalia
Blame Thatcher!
You know, I don't really think it's her fault... Look, loads of folk go to honey pot sites...They can't go abroad, so they think I know, lets have a nice picnic by the river/waterfall/middle of nowhere, and they just bring too much much shit, and they realise that there are no bins (why would there be, it's the middle of nowhere) so they just leave it.
most folk aren't litterbugs, they just don't think, and once some-one's left some crap, they all do.
I've been on a few litter-picking runs and rides with my teenage boys - hopefully that will instil a sense of responsibility that will stay with them. That and the obvious disgust I show when we see some.
It's particularly disappointing when you know it's mountain bikers. There's a great local spot where Josh Bryceland and the 50:1 lot hang out quite a bit that has attracted a wider teenage biking audience who now think it's ok to have fires and leave all their rubbish behind. If one thing is going to close down the spot - it's that!
I've spoken to a few, and I think they kind of get it - it's just a bit of peer pressure that seems to tip them the wrong way.
Same with digging. It's got a bit out of control now and the amount of land left undug for the bluebells to flourish is getting smaller and smaller. All the non-biking visitors notice this and it saddens them - it just takes a few small concessions to keep everyone happy 🙁
ebikegum, you've been lucky i’d say. i asked a couple of young lads to pick up their litter recently and they spent the next 10 minutes or so threatening to kill my dogs and rape my girlfriend. Real charmers.
what really puzzles me is that a lot of the littering round me is done by residents, which seems a bit like shitting in your own bed before getting in to it.
i think there needs to be a combo of lots of measures - civic responsibility and awareness taught in schools, more public bins, greater effort from local and central government to get the message out there, and absolutely massive fines for littering that are actually enforced - charged per item dropped, with the threat of a criminal record for reoffending
this, of course, applies to anybody that does not pick up after their dog as well. There’s a special place in hell for them
I don't just blame the youth nor do I condone anyone who deliberately litters. However I do think that the young people in Britain have a hard time of feeling part of a community when their community is actively voting and behaving in a way that will create a problem that the young people will have to deal with yet they won't be able to even move out of their parents house until they're into their thirties.
Each future generation will be worse off but will have less and less opportunities that their parents and grandparents.
And this article was before Covid-19.
it's no excuse to litter and cause a mess
two-thirds-millennials-believe-generation-will-worse-parents
They key word in that is "believe". Some things are worse, some are better. I'm not going to divert this thread by going into detail, everybody has to deal with the problems of the age as they meet them, blaming history isn't the way forward, nor is littering as a protest.
@didnthurt that article doesn't say millennials will be worse off though, it says millennials BELIEVE they'll be worse off. Of course they're going to say that, they're children, all they do is moan about how hard life is whilst having everything provided for them 😂
but in all seriousness,
you have that completely backwards. Happy to see some proof of that though, if I'm wrong.Each future generation will be worse off but will have less and less opportunities that their parents and grandparents.
So let's look at reasons to why people do not feel like it's not their fault for treating their environment like shit and how we can help change this.
- The news is all negative so people don't think that their little bit of extra pollution won't make any difference. Education is the answer but not from the regular sources like school or work this needs to come from celebrities and people who have shed loads of followers on social media. Some folk only seem to listen to these (like someone above mentioned Joe Rogan, I know it was in jest but it could work).
- Someone else will deal with it. They think like this because this is actively what does happen because, like the beach litter pick in a previous reply. Make people who are convicted of all petty and minor crimes have to do community service else face a fine of four figures or jail.
- People are lazy. Or people are very efficient at exploiting any short cut that will save them from unnecessary effort. Offer more bins, not just general waste either, they need to be proper colour coded recycling bins with big signs. Also make retailers and suppliers of foods have to make their packaging as minimalist and recyclable as possible.
- People have no civic pride. From the state of lots of people I see out and about they also don't have any personal pride so expecting them to respect their environment is probably 'pie in the sky' thinking. I think that banning or controlling certain fast foods and having free sports facilities would help get people to at least take some control back in their lives and maybe some pride? Maybe encourage more local events like food markets and concerts etc so people can come together more often helping them feel part of their communities.
I know all the above is wishful thinking but we need to make changes to peoples psychology and behaviour which will take time, maybe a generation or two.
I used to go up there before anyone knew about it and it was an amazing spot, un/fortunately there was a big campaign last year to save it from being turned back into a quarry and this gave away the location to hoardes of chavs from miles around thus ruining anyway.
Elf'n'Safety?
When I was at school many years ago we were sent out to clean up any litter that had been dropped at playtime as group punichment. No litter = no extra work.
Fifty years later and the school at which I have helped insists that it's too dangerous for kids to pick litter, so they drop it in volume without regard for consequences. Littering is a habit
This will need firstly the will at government level and secondly a generation to fix.
Going after McD and their analogues is not the answer, it is about making dropping and leaving litter socially unacceptable. Nice idea to use qr codes to make it easy to find and fine offenders and that can be part of the process but if individuals can't be educated / persuaded to buy in then it's still a losing battle.
Having said that I am prepared to volunteer to pick up spent ammo for the litter dropper snipers.
