Daughter wants a "proper" kitchen knife for Christmas, the old spare one we gave her when she went to uni in September isn't good enough.
So, without getting into the world of artisan Japanese wonder blades, what decent do it all kitchen knife should we get her that will hold an edge, and maybe be the start of a full set we can build up for her - she does enjoy cooking so want something better than a bargain basement.
"not good enough" how?
I ask because, is it just a shit knife, or is it just dull and a decent sharpener would be a better investment?
Wusthof classic chef’s knife and diamond sharpener.
Have a look on [url= https://www.procook.co.uk/shop/knives-scissors/shop-all-single-knives?_gl=1*1flusa8*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTEyMjI3MjMxMS4xNzY0MjczNjIy*_ga_XQN579C06L*czE3NjQyNzM2MjEkbzEkZzAkdDE3NjQyNzM2MjEkajYwJGwwJGgyMDEwNzk1NzI5 ]ProCook[/url] - they do a decent range of not-too-expensive cookware ideal for students, first-time homeowners etc (as well as expensive Damascus blades!) plus they've got various Back Friday deals on at the moment.
A good chefs knife, 9 ish inches, Victorinox maybe, Wusthof maybe, and a good steel. Plus, maybe some advice in how to keep it short.
"not good enough" how?
I ask because, is it just a shit knife, or is it just dull and a decent sharpener would be a better investment?
Fair point
I quite like my Sabatier set, but the newer ones are not as good as the heritage ones I got from my dad. Global are decent enough, but I honestly think any decent brand with a good steel will be a step up as long as you also get her a proper sharpener and she never puts them in the dishwasher.
What state is the rest of it in?
👌
We have a decent set of knives at home and keep them well looked after and sharp.
In the camper we have one do it all knife. Had it for ten years. Use it for every thing and it's still as sharp as the day we bought it. Never had to sharpen it. BLACK25 gets 25% off.
If I could only had to have one knife then it would be this.
https://www.foreversharpknife.com/shop/forever-sharp-carving-knife/
Robert Welch santuko is quite decent for the price, and holds an edge well but never use it on those ****ing stupid glass chopping boards,
America's Test Kitchen do proper reviews of a wide variety of knives - real use for long periods
https://www.americastestkitchen.com/equipment_reviews/2357-the-best-chef-s-knives-under-75#review-reviewables-section
One knife to rule them all will be a chefs knife of some kind but what size? My current favourite is a 6" Victorinox Fibrox, previous was a much heavier 8" Sabatier (Sabatier is a label that lots of manufacturers put on their knives, there are lots of brands using it). If she's got small hands a small knife may be better but my daughter prefers the bigger knife.
Then there's style. A German style knife will have more of a curve so cuts by rocking, French is straighter and Japanese is straighter still. Bolster shape also changes the feel in the hand.
Have you or one of her friends got a knife that she likes the shape of? If so, get one like that. Or is there a good cook shop near you where she can at least handle different types?
Cheap option is Victorinox Fibrox - functional, holds an edge, cheap so no drama if lost.
Expensive - if she has no idea, probably a German brand - Zwilling, Whustof etc. Japanese knives are a bit different, if she doesn't know she wants one already it's probably not the right idea.
Hit up IKEA? Their decent knives are pretty good, and not expensive.
Following a recommendation on here I bought an outgoing/end of line set of knives from Ikea that were half price. They are pretty damn good.
I can only find them on the swedish Ikea site: https://www.ikea.com/se/en/p/briljera-3-piece-knife-set-damascus-steel-maple-80392805/
Yes, they are the ones i have. Plus the Santoku as well. Still readily available here, shame they've ditched it in the UK.
They also have the Vardagen knife set, which aren't damascus steel and use walnut instead of Maple.
We have some Sabatier ones. Son was complaining ours were a bit blunt, so I now keep the 'main knife' sharpened - we use it for carving meat and cutting veg. I would suggest a decent knife and a sharpener block.
The down side is I regularly lose chunks off my fingers - chopped the end of my thumb off recently as it's so sharp.
Global G2. Plus ‘Shinkansen’ sharpener.
Another vote for IKEA. Don't get Global as it will be used as a lever by a flatmate or visitor and broken as a result. Mrs Sandwich loves our plastic handled IKEA Santoku, it arrived razor sharp and has required minimal attention to keep it in that condition. At £9 if it breaks I'll not weep (one of the "good" knives was used to lever something and is bent as a result, I was a bit annoyed but not enough to build a new patio).
For a single knife? A 20cm Zwilling twin pollux chef's knife. Looks great, easily sharpened, thoroughly robust so not snotty about being bunged in the dishwasher and has the makings of a good collection starter. The parer, santoku and steel often make their way into TKMaxx.
Evil amazon have some awesome deals today
You've not given a budget, but I'd be wary of anything too good in a shared house (if that's what she's in - student life seems diffent now)
Bought one of these earlier in the year, because it seemed a bargain, to add to our other Wusthof knives. It's their 'try me' knife so about half the RRP of the (smaller) paring knife they sell. But it immediately became our most used knife.
https://www.kitchenknives.co.uk/wusthof-classic-asian-12cm-utility-knife-wt1040136812/
Might be worth asking her what size she likes, I often see a large chefs knife recommended as the best all rounder but my go to knife is a Santoku as it's more manageable for most tasks and I rarely need a very long knife. Having a sharpener and knowing how to use it is also just as important as the knife, plus how to look after the knife
Bought a Fibrax "Victorinox 5.2063.20 Chefs Knife, Extra Broad, 20cm, Black" after a recommendation on here in 2022. Was £38 (now £33). Gets used several times a week. Think I have sharpened it once. Very pleased.
If looking at Sabatier I can recommend the LION branded ones. Had a 20 cm chefs knife for >20 years and it still holds its edge and sharpens well. The LION serrated ‘steak’ knife is also excellent for things like tomatoes and bread rolls. I also have some other Sabatier branded knives which are poor in comparison that come from TKMaxx (false economy).
I also have a few Global knives, they cut very well but the handle is not as comfortable for me as the Sabatier.
For a single knife I’d go for a larger (but not huge) chefs knife, they’re more versatile and less dangerous if cutting larger food like squash, melon, pineapple etc.
Something I learned early in life from a crazy neighbour was that having big sharp knives to hand is not a good idea so when my SIL bought us a fancy knife set with display block as a wedding present I said "not in our kitchen, hide it somewhere". The smallest kife was thrown in the cutlery draw and the bread knife is still in use. 32 years later we needed some new knives and sufficient time had passed fo me to ask "any objections to me grinding the ends of those old knives from you sister round and using them". They still look frightening but much less so.
In answer to the original quesion :
https://www.goyon-chazeau.com/produit/couteau-de-cuisine-eminceur-20cm-le-thiers/
What's that in pounds? 150 quid!
If you have a diamond steel and know how to use it you do not need a sharpener or a whetstone.
I've got one of the Robert Welch ones that somafunk posted above. It's good, although it needs sharpening a lot more often than my Global knife.
When I saw the thread title I was all set to recommend the said Global knife - I've used it every day for the last decade, twice a day for the last 5 years, and it's absolutely mint. But then I read the thread title and agree with what others have said - get something decent and cheap!
She is in shared accomodation so maybe the lower price but still decent options would be better for now. Thinking ~15cm blade
I have the Nakiri version of this one that I got free when buying a load of other stuff. Its every bit as good as blade as my Globals and the wider handle feels much better in the hand. £20. Have just bought one, a pairing knife and a sharpener for my parents for xmas.
https://www.procook.co.uk/product/nihon-x30-santoku-knife-18cm-7in
She is in shared accomodation so maybe the lower price but still decent options would be better for now. Thinking ~15cm blade
I’d go a bigger blade than that. I have a 15cm too and use the bigger knife far more often, it’s just so much nicer to do a rolling chop with.
ProCook every time! Their cheaper knives are often on sale, they’re mostly German steel, with through tangs and riveted on Micarta handle slabs. They’re easy to keep sharp, although ProCook do offer a sharpening service, and it’s certainly worth buying a good sharpener along with the knife/knives.
I’ve got two, a Santoku and a Nagiri, and I’ve got a variety of other kitchen knives I’ve aquired from various places, like IKEA, who might also be worth looking into, their knives are pretty cheap and do a decent job, but again, it’s keeping them sharp is the important part.
ProCook are doing Black Friday deals at the moment as well…
https://www.procook.co.uk/shop/knives-scissors/shop-all-knife-sets
I would recommend Victorinox Wood handle range because the quality is good. Some other brands have come up with new design etc in the similar price range but I still consider Victorinox the best amongst the lot.
If only one knife is considered than a Santoku should be sufficient.
Easy to maintain and hold edge sharpness rather well.
The length of the blade is also not too long as anything more than 18cm will need larger space.
Victorinox Wood 17cm Santoku Knife (6850017G)
https://www.kitchenknives.co.uk/victorinox-wood-17cm-santoku-knife-6850017g/
If daughter likes to cut through chicken or smaller pig bones than also consider a meat cleaver like this.
Victorinox Firbrox 18cm kitchen cleaver (5400318)
https://www.kitchenknives.co.uk/victorinox-fibrox-18cm-kitchen-cleaver-5400318/
A small utility knife might come in handy too.
Victorinox Wood 12cm Utility/Vegetable Knife (5200012)
These 3 knives should cover most of her cooking needs.
The only knife that can "rules" them all is a Chinese No 2 cleaver, which can use as normal chef knife plus cutting through chicken or small pig bones. Most households in the far east would choose No 2 cleaver if they are only allow one knife. The set up for most households includes 3 cleavers (bone, bone & slice, and slicing cleaver, plus a Santoku and a utility.
What exactly is "Sabatier"? Is it a brand or a style or what? It's a name that seems to be thrown about with gay abandon, my primary knife is a Sabatier and I've no idea why. Sounds good, though.
Something I learned early in life from a crazy neighbour was that having big sharp knives to hand is not a good idea so when my SIL bought us a fancy knife set
Gotta say, when buying kitchen knives my first thought doesn't generally turn to homicide statistics.
Also, it's a %^&*ing DRAWER, how many times?! Argh.
If you have a diamond steel and know how to use it you do not need a sharpener or a whetstone.
Something I learned only relatively recently after using one for decades, a steel is for honing not for sharpening.
It's a draw, a drawer is somebody who draws, possibly.
Something I learned only relatively recently after using one for decades, a steel is for honing not for sharpening.
Is kind of true as its main purpose is to straighten rolled edges.
But it clearly also sharpens and they get filthy from metal so they definitely remove material.
It won't bring back and edge butt it will keep one fairly sharp for a fair while.
Sharpening tends to get a bit nerdy but a maintained cheap knife is lightyears better than a fancy one after a couple of weeks.
What exactly is "Sabatier"? Is it a brand or a style or what? It's a name that seems to be thrown about with gay abandon, my primary knife is a Sabatier and I've no idea why. Sounds good, though
Brand. Althought their handle is oft copied for good reason.
Edit: thats bollocks I complete misremembered.
I would recommend Victorinox Wood handle range because the quality is good. Some other brands have come up with new design etc in the similar price range but I still consider Victorinox the best amongst the lot.
If only one knife is considered than a Santoku should be sufficient.
Easy to maintain and hold edge sharpness rather well.
The length of the blade is also not too long as anything more than 18cm will need larger space.
Victorinox Wood 17cm Santoku Knife (6850017G)
https://www.kitchenknives.co.uk/victorinox-wood-17cm-santoku-knife-6850017g/
If daughter likes to cut through chicken or smaller pig bones than also consider a meat cleaver like this.
Victorinox Firbrox 18cm kitchen cleaver (5400318)
https://www.kitchenknives.co.uk/victorinox-fibrox-18cm-kitchen-cleaver-5400318/
A small utility knife might come in handy too.
Victorinox Wood 12cm Utility/Vegetable Knife (5200012)
These 3 knives should cover most of her cooking needs.
The only knife that can "rules" them all is a Chinese No 2 cleaver, which can use as normal chef knife plus cutting through chicken or small pig bones. Most households in the far east would choose No 2 cleaver if they are only allow one knife. The set up for most households includes 3 cleavers (bone, bone & slice, and slicing cleaver, plus a Santoku and a utility.
Don't get a wooden handled knife if its going to be in a shared space. Don't get a wooden handled knif if your daughter has any notions of leaving the knife in the sink or in a puddle on the draining board.
Something I learned only relatively recently after using one for decades, a steel is for honing not for sharpening.
A normal steel is for honing. A diamond steel is both for honing and sharpening and is all that is needed to keep any knife super sharp.
I’ve never needed to mess with whetstones since learning how to use a diamond steel.
Probably get grief for this but my favourite knife is a Victorinox tomato knife. Does everything I need
https://www.kitchenknives.co.uk/by-brand/victorinox/victorinox-knife-block-sets/victorinox-swiss-classic-2-x-11cm-tomato-utility-knife-set-black-67833b/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19183944182&gbraid=0AAAAADj5Uimx0MkzzLMM1pbN1b0OySTkR&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0KrJBhCOARIsAGIy9wAVeQkfVBLwWixHMnhCYJiG83orPRB3AjUAu1qb1a7KvXyHkVZDGa8aAhQ9EALw_wcB
It's a draw, a drawer is somebody who draws, possibly.
It’s a drawer, as in a chest of drawers. Someone who draws is an artist. *sigh*
a 20cm "chef's knife" is the "one knife to rule them all.
Pro Cook do decent, good value kitchen stuff. They seem to have one for £19.
https://www.procook.co.uk/product/professional-x50-chef-chefs-knife-20cm-8in-1
Add a 2-sided whetstone and it will last decades.
A normal steel is for honing. A diamond steel is both for honing and sharpening and is all that is needed to keep any knife super sharp.
I’ve never needed to mess with whetstones since learning how to use a diamond steel.
"Today I Learned..."
never use it on those ****ing stupid glass chopping boards
This. Get her a chopping board with the knife.
Don't get a wooden handled knife if its going to be in a shared space.
Also this.
If I could only had to have one knife then it would be this.
The Forever Sharp carving knife is a really useful tool. Should be able to get it cheaper elsewhere this time of year. I wouldn’t have it as my only knife, but I wouldn’t be without it. Getting her one instead of a bread knife and she’ll be golden (its flexibility is useful for fish, meat, squash etc as well). But she’d also need something for chopping.
Don’t want to appear sexist here, but if I was buying cooking knives for a young woman I’d pair the above with something small like a Global tomato knife for prepping veg etc. It’s what my partner and daughter always reach for. And mine is from the last century and used all the time (never clean when I go to use it for tomatoes, as one of them has used it for a random job). It’s never been sharpened, and never needed it (and with that edge I wouldn’t know how to). But I’ll bet money that any knife you buy her will never be sharpened.
Obviously I’d don’t know your offspring, but I’d ignore all the “a good knife is freshly sharpened knife” people … even if they’re right … and buy her knifes she’ll not have to sharpen.
Holy Moley! Don’t get her the Global one, just seen how much they are these days! Someone will make a good copy, I’m sure. Just look at the size/shape/edge pattern of the GS-9 and find something similar.
It’s a drawer, as in a chest of drawers.
Drawers, those baggy underwear things my grandmother kept in the top draw. And in English it should really be drawer chest: web of spider (toile d'araignée) is spider web in English or even spider's web if you want. Not sure why there's an non possessive "s" on the end of drawers.
Back on topic it's a sad reflection of the youth of today that a woman would would want something for the kitchen as a present. The liberated ladies of my generation wanted presents for themselves (or possibly their pets) not the house. There's a selection of ideas in the the Guardian today.
Might get this for myself…
https://www.hartsofstur.com/global-40th-anniversary-gs110an-15cm-kiritsuke-knife-gs110an.html
Drawers, those baggy underwear things my grandmother kept in the top draw. And in English it should really be drawer chest: web of spider (toile d'araignée) is spider web in English or even spider's web if you want. Not sure why there's an non possessive "s" on the end of drawers.
No, she kept them in the top drawer.
Back on topic it's a sad reflection of the youth of today that a woman would would want something for the kitchen as a present.
My liberated young lady buys what she wants, when she wants it, with the money she's earned herself. If she asks for practical stuff as a present, I'm more than happy to respect her wishes.
Drawers, those baggy underwear things my grandmother kept in the top draw. And in English it should really be drawer chest: web of spider (toile d'araignée) is spider web in English or even spider's web if you want. Not sure why there's an non possessive "s" on the end of drawers.
Back on topic it's a sad reflection of the youth of today that a woman would would want something for the kitchen as a present. The liberated ladies of my generation wanted presents for themselves (or possibly their pets) not the house. There's a selection of ideas in the the Guardian today.
Drawers (furniture and the undies) are both called draws because they are drawn. You draw the drawer out, you draw the drawers on.
As for the knife thing... What are you on about of someone likes cooking a knife is the perfect gift, gender or otherwise, i have asked for knives for gifts and they are always treasured.
This bloke seems to spend an awful lot of time talking about knives
I bought the Shanzu knife he rated highly and I have to say I'm really impressed by it. Not cheap, but nowhere near the price of some of the more expensive options I've seen.
It's a drawer. You might call it a draw or a slidey-tidy or a luxury yacht or some other such nonsense, and what you get up to in the comfort of your own kitchen is your own concern, but you've made it up. You probably say "should of" and could care less about that too, don't you. Savages.
Draw.
Other dictionaries are available.
Don’t want to appear sexist here, but if I was buying cooking knives for a young woman I’d pair the above with something small like a Global tomato knife for prepping veg etc. It’s what my partner and daughter always reach for.
That's a good point actually. The only chopping knife my OH ever uses is a paring knife. She's frightened of a) big knives and b) sharp knives. I've given up trying now, and I'm not complaining too loudly because I can hear her "chopping" from the other end of the house.
... I realise, that sounded far more ominous than I intended.
What are you on about of someone likes cooking a knife is the perfect gift, gender or otherwise, i have asked for knives for gifts and they are always treasured.
Yup, my big Global knife was a present from my Dad… which I asked for. He’s been gone for decades now. Handling something nearly every day that he gave me… well, I like it. He never cooked though! Things have moved on. My Son sends me photos of meals he’s made that he’s proud of. My Daughter is a toast as a meal person.
Lets go back a few messages, I don’t understand why sharpening serrated knives is seen as something incredibly difficult - I even have sharpening book where author states that serrated knives should be discarded when they get dull. In reality about 2-3 minutes sharpening with round file, diamond rod or bottom edge of a mug will be enough to restore the edge.
A normal steel is for honing. A diamond steel is both for honing and sharpening and is all that is needed to keep any knife super sharp.
I’ve never needed to mess with whetstones since learning how to use a diamond steel.
Both these things are true, but equally, someone who doesn't know what they're doing with either will do more harm that good. Sharpening with a steel, or a whetstone, is a technique that needs to be learned and practiced.
I know the theory but have never got good at it. for *most people* who won't put the time in to learn to do it properly, a pull through knife sharpener is the right answer. IMO one with little diamond wheels or a minosharp (with angled whetstones) rather than the two angled bits of metal that take off a lot of material and slightly serrate the knife.
You probably say "should of"
Don't tempt me. 🙂 A+
Edit: I've written peer reviewed stuff, reviewed peer reviewed stuff, taught English and put together documents that need to be perfect. I've worn out dictionaries and my current ones are dog-eared clumps of paper divorced from their spines. It's cathartic not to have to bother. No spell checker, no predictive text. You get whatever flows from my fingers and if that bothers you it's your problem not mine. 🙂
Cheap Chinese cleaver from the local oriental supermarket and a diamond steel. All the knife you'll ever need (with a bit of practice).
Having said that, my favourite all rounder is either my Robert Welch 20cm Chef's knife, my Porsche Santoku or my Martinni 21cm.
You get whatever flows from my fingers and if that bothers you it's your problem not mine
Perhaps you could extend the same courtesy to others, especially when they are right and you are wrong.
Anyway. I have bought a Victorinox fibrox santoku, carving knife, bread knife, and paring knife, plus an in-drawer wooden storage block. I have also bought a Pro Cook whetstone and Victorinox honing steel. About £170 for the lot.
If anyone is still trying to buy a decent or good kitchen knife, there are plenty of Japanese KAI Corporation Seki Mago Roku in stock at TK Maxx now. I find this brand very good. (I have 5 at least)
The Seki Mago Roku comes in various range but they are all made in Japan with good steel etc.
At TK Maxx yesterday I just bought one 😀 like this 150 utility stainless steel (paid £39, price is very similar to price in Japan) - not sandwich with carbon steel in the middle which I normally go for but I just want to try this out. Used it this evening and it is very sharp but not my usual splitting hair sharp but good enough. The handle is very nice and it is dishwasher safe for all you dishwasher users.
Since many of you like Global knives, but may find them too expensive to mess about, you can also try Seki Mago Roku similar looking range with very reasonable price (Japanese domestic price). There is a stockist in UK that you can buy online from with Japanese price (very good price)
This is the Japanese woman with her website Kurumicooks in UK (I was searching for Japanese recipes so stumbled upon her site) and her other online store ("These are marketed by kurumicooks via an affiliate agreement with a Japanese internet retailer.") selling limited Seki Mago Roku kitchen knives but with very good price.
If you want steel handle like Global then check these out. (she only carry two with steel handle)
UK stock and delivery cost is cheap at £3 - £5.50:
KAI Seki Magoroku Shoso Japanese Santoku Knife 165mm (£32.99)
KAI Seki Magoroku Shoso Japanese Chef Knife (£32.99)
The materials are:
Blade: high carbon stainless steel cutting edge,
Handle: 18-8 stainless steel.
To me blade can be sharpen to screaming sharp hair splitting if you know how.
She also carry the other sandwich version which I have like this (super sharp and hold edge well and I have 5 at least)
KAI Seki Magoroku Akane Japanese Santoku Knife 16.5 cm (£31.99)
D'oh ... I might order one of the stainless steel handle version above.
I have too many knives ... arrgghh ...
Anyway. I have bought a Victorinox fibrox santoku, carving knife, bread knife, and paring knife, plus an in-drawer wooden storage block. I have also bought a Pro Cook whetstone and Victorinox honing steel. About £170 for the lot.
Sounds like a smashing present 😁
Obviously I’d don’t know your offspring, but I’d ignore all the “a good knife is freshly sharpened knife” people … even if they’re right … and buy her knifes she’ll not have to sharpen.
That’s ‘knives’, and as far as I’m aware, with my limited knowledge of metals science, there’s no such thing as a knife ‘she’ll not have to sharpen’; even the best Damascus steel will need sharpening if it’s being used, with the proviso that the actual knowledge of how Damascus steel was actually produced. The nearest thing to a knife that doesn’t need sharpening would be a ceramic blade, but I’m not even sure about that. Even a blade chipped from flint or volcanic glass will lose its edge with use.
Personally, I rather enjoy the process of sharpening a blade, it’s a bit of a challenge to get a good edge that cuts cleanly.
One more thing - never use a good sharp knife to cut paper or card, it’ll blunt it instantly!
Sharpening knives by hand with a Japanese water stone is one of life’s great pleasures…
Traditionally, it's bad luck to give knives as gifts.
there’s no such thing as a knife ‘she’ll not have to sharpen’
Fair enough. I gave examples of two knives used near daily for well over a decade that have never needed sharpening “so far”. Nothing is forever. Both work exactly the same as the day I was given them. Other knives of mine become obviously blunt in about six months of use (and cost a lot more). Depends on the design of the blade, not just the material.