We’re having a bit of a clear out and have a bag of climbing gear that’s been in the loft for about 20 years. I know the tapes and rope are trash, but is there any use for the metalwork, or is that just for the skip as well? Would an outdoor centre (eg local Scouts) have a use? I’m happy for it to go for nothing to a good home (based near Perth).
I doubt the scouts would accept due to the associated paperwork.
Sorry can't think of other options, i changed all the fabric stuff in my head recently but am keeping it
I use my old tapes and krabs etc for my canoe rescue kit, so find a local paddler!
Any outdoor centre or organisation would not take on metalwork without purchase and use history - we used to log all usage, and any braided metalwork was chucked at inspection or 10 yeas, solid metalwork on inspection.
Thanks. You've confirmed my thoughts - it’s only really good as material for a sculpture!
No-one is going to take the metal gear because the provenance is unknown. I've got a whole bag full of krabs, hexes, cams etc which is only good for staring at wistfully.
Make it into a nice decorative piece...
I would never buy used climbing gear for reasons as others have said above, and any organisation would be utterly mad to do so if only because their insurance would have kittens.
The best advice I can give you is to start climbing again. 😀
The best advice I can give you is to start climbing again.
C+1....?
Hmm that's a point. Is it ok to use your own ropes and hardware after 10, maybe 15 years of cool/dark/dry bagged storage? Unlikely that I will now but I had wondered.
hmmm, I don't have any ropes but I do have a harness / crab / belay device that are now at least 15 years old and haven't been used for about 10. Was considering resuming my climbing at some point, how badly with they have degraded in a dark cupboard?
From a Scout Leader perspective it can't be accepted. We took over the group after it folded and had to bin a load of stuff because we didn't know where it came from.
Hmm that’s a point. Is it ok to use your own ropes and hardware after 10, maybe 15 years of cool/dark/dry bagged storage? Unlikely that I will now but I had wondered.
Anecdotally and in no way actual advice,
I started climbing with a vengeance thirty years ago. Today I have a lot of elderly gear, much of which is barely used. When I took it back up a couple of years ago after a hiatus I ditched the rope but kept the rest.
I really should think about replacing my harness but... IDK, it's like an old pair of shoes, it's early 90s vintage webbing but it's so comfy. I've worn new ones and it's just not the same.
If you still have the ropes and slings I'll have them. They'll be used for dog restraints as our garden isn't dog proof so he has to be on a long rope to stop him running in the road. His existing rope is now more knots than rope. Happy to make a charity donation to a charity of your choice.
I'm 20 mins north of Perth so can collect.
Thanks
Hmm that’s a point. Is it ok to use your own ropes and hardware after 10, maybe 15 years of cool/dark/dry bagged storage? Unlikely that I will now but I had wondered.
It is all a risk judgement.
There used to be a lot of fear around gear, particularly if it was out in UV/sunlight, and particularly about age. I cannot find the link, but some of this has melted a little. The general gist now is much more around store in a dark and dry place, do and inspection properly of your gear and make a judgement....
Clearly used and with signs of wear gear needs yeeting into the bin.
FWIW, I do know of someone who was killed when their 15 year old harness failed - however they had tied only into the belay loop, which was also heavily worn.
And so - ignore my opinion which is out of date and read the proper view:
BMC: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Handlers/DownloadHandler.ashx?id=77
(more is available)
but I do have a harness / crab / belay device that are now at least 15 years old and haven’t been used for about 10.
Chances are it's OK, unless there are obvious abrasions/fraying on the webbing/belay loop or signs of fatigue on the buckles. But degradation is a funny, and invisible thing. You won't know until you take a nice factor 2 fall on it, I guess, which would always be the nagging thought at the back of my mind.
I'd have no qualms about using the crab/belay device.
My job is in this area (Technical PPE Textile type stuff). If the kit has been stored well then it'll probably be fine. I've tested ropes used for caving that have spent over 20 years stored in a loft and then still fully meet the requirments of EN 1891. This stuff lasts a long time. However, the regulations say it needs a life so many manufactures give 10 years. Not because after this time it won't still work but because it's a life that most people are happy with and it neatly matches the PPE regulation's requirment to keep records for 10 years.
Persionally, I still use 20+ year old metalwork. Harness and ropes over 10 years are for top roping only, but I still use them. I do know how they've been stored and used though. I 100% agree with all the above comments about 2nd hand gear with unknown history.
^ good links, thanks Matt - useful to read what they call regular use for a 3 year rope lifespan.
Ropes get retired after a couple of years in our household. By that time they have done so many hours of climbs and as most are performance type ropes they are not designed to last (under 9mm). They are either turned into dog leads, donated to people who make dog leads or they end up as long ropes to tether the dogs to in the garden. Its not vanity or waste, we genuinely wear them out. When i can be bothered a i can knock up a pretty good monkeys fist toy for the dogs too.
Other stuff like slings, left over rope and harnesses are integrated into gym equipment for offsett pull ups, weighted pullups etc.
We dont climb outside very much and my daughter is supported by Petzl which we are so grateful for and try not to take the piss. They did give some dirty looks at a recent event where my daughter pulled a set of DMM quickdraws out of her bag (She loves the colour) and was told by a uk climbing legend that she MUST remind him to send her a full set of Petzl quickdraws.
thanks for the replies, based on the above I'm happy to go with my original instinct that my gear is perfectly fine for my own use - I've always looked after my gear, I usually climb indoors, I usually top-rope and if I do lead I'm a limpet and will do everything I can to avoid a fall. It'll be fine for that kind of usage and even for the occasional trip out, if I ever do pull my finger out and resume
they had tied only into the belay loop, which was also heavily worn.
I got chastised for this at a climbing wall a little while ago. I can tie a figure of 8 through a screwgate in probably under three seconds but they wanted it threading through everything. Their gaff their rules, but if a belay loop is safe to belay from then it's safe to climb on, surely. "Heavily worn" is the problem here.
my daughter is supported by Petzl
That got a Spock Eyebrow. Who is she? Does she have a YouTube channel or anything?
Good female climbers are an art form, blokes can be kinda thrutchy but the women are like a waterfall in reverse. "You climb like a girl" is the highest compliment I could receive as a climber. (I don't climb like a girl, I climb like Bambi on ice.)
Yeah, start climbing again, but re-sling the friends, quickdraws, hexes etc. Rope - see above from harryturtle. In a similar situation I bought a new rope and kept my old harness, but now a few more years down the line I think i will replace the harness. It looks visibly worn now, which will be a little bit gutting as it's comfy, but mostly because I won it in a SIBL comp from BITD.. (yeah, yeah, humble brag etc,..., but in these days of middle-aged-mediocrity I remember when i did actually do some sporting stuff ok..ish).
In the light of advice above I think I shall retire my harness 1976 whillans sit harness (for those of a certain vintage) maybe reuse some bits into camping gear
if a belay loop is safe to belay from then it’s safe to climb on, surely
True. Would have thought the shock load at the leader end of a fall is higher though, rope friction through the protection points etc? If the loop's not ok that way if you were belaying someone who'd run out most of a rope length you might use more than the belay loop just to be sure? Dunno, I never climbed anything or with anyone that bold.
whillans sit harness
Should be carefully cut up, then nuked from orbit to be sure that no-one else is inadvertantly subjected to the immense discomfort these are designed to inflict on the wearer.
In the light of advice above I think I shall retire my harness 1976 whillans sit harness
Is it too late for your gonads, though?
I got chastised for this at a climbing wall a little while ago. I can tie a figure of 8 through a screwgate in probably under three seconds but they wanted it threading through everything. Their gaff their rules, but if a belay loop is safe to belay from then it’s safe to climb on, surely
From memory (SPA training years and years ago) the belay loop is more prone to getting worn through by rope moving against it. The belay krab is smooth (and largely static under load) so doesn’t pose the same problem. Not sure how big the change in risk is, but tying through the harness as designed is a pretty low-cost action.
if a belay loop is safe to belay from then it’s safe to climb on, surely
Probably, but the forces experienced by a belayer during a fall are significantly lower than those experienced by the falling climber.
https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Forces-at-work-in-a-real-fall#
Using the waist belt in addition to the belay loop is good practice because it introduces another point of safety in the unlikely but possible scenario that the belay loop were to fail.
It's not that inconvenient to tie in through the waist belt as well. The wall probably has approved tie-in methods to comply with insurance stipulations. I think quite a few don't like bowlines for this reason.
Would have thought the shock load at the leader end of a fall is higher though, rope friction through the protection points etc?
I wondered that when I posted. I've no idea. It's plausible I guess?
the belay loop is more prone to getting worn through by rope moving against it.
All the more reason to use a screwgate rather than tie in directly then.
I'm a bit confused about this TBH. Tied in directly there's not a lot of rope movement as a climber other than creating the initial knot which isn't under load. I'm struggling to think how you'd tie in directly when belaying. How are you rigging for friction to be a potential issue?
In the light of advice above I think I shall retire my harness 1976 whillans sit harness
That harness certainly divides opinion, and often other things.
@Cougar - a belay loop used for belaying is usually subject to lower forces due to reductions through rope stretch and friction. General good practice is to tie in alongside the belay loop, as usually this means you are tying into two parts of of the harness, and so both need to fail for 'ultimate' failure to occur, and finally many harnesses are designed that way with wear markers on.
It can be useful on multipitch climbing or when belaying with anchor at times to create a second loop and not be 'part of the system'.
All splitting hairs and adding a few percent in win under an extreme situation though.
I went to the new Big Depot the opening weekend. I was asked to prove i can tie figure 8. Now i have spent more hours belaying indoors than most. I dont climb so i enter a wall and belay for 3 hours straight most times and it can be 2-3 sessions a week. For the last 8 years. But i dont ever tie a figure 8 unless a wall asks me too. My daughter ties them and i check em. I can spot a poorly tied fig 8 from 100yds away.
So picture me stood there at bottom of wall, "make a head, strangle it, poke him in the eye"......What a knob i looked.
Glad to see this thread morph into a ‘can I use my old gear?’
(plans trip to Windgather)
I think quite a few don’t like bowlines for this reason.
Aside from none other than Chris Bonnington telling a mate of mine many many years ago that he was going to die, I don't think I've ever known anyone tie in with a bowline.
Chris Bonington once told my wife off for not wearing a helmet on a North Wales multipitch. Didn't say anything to me about it, though.
Not seen anyone use it for years. I think the main advantage was that you could theoretically tie it with one hand?
There is good use for old climbing gear, like working on my house (roof work), as towing rope, hanging stuff in the garage etc. However, it is very important to mark the gear properly if you are using it past safe use dates.
I don't think the ropes and slings degrade as badly as fast as we were told in the 90s but I will not use old ropes, slings and harnessess for climbing, especially if any other people are involved.
There is Youtube channel called https://www.youtube.com/@HowNOT2 where they test new and old gear, some the sketchy gear is surprisingly robust.
I really should think about replacing my harness but… IDK, it’s like an old pair of shoes, it’s early 90s vintage webbing but it’s so comfy. I’ve worn new ones and it’s just not the same.
I have my bright pink 1994 Petzl harness... I don't worry about it failing and killing me now... because in order to fit in it now I'd need some surgery!
If you want to get rid of old kit - this guy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQvq-0fss4lNrmIz7gcPLtQ makes weird youtube content testing and trashing climbing kit. Probably not cheap to post it to him but he's always keen for either odd stuff or partially damaged stuff, or probably just really old stuff that he dyno tests to destruction to see how many different ways climbers can find to die!
How are you rigging for friction to be a potential issue?
A single carabiner:
https://roperescuetraining.com/physics_friction.php
In the light of advice above I think I shall retire my harness 1976 whillans sit harness
That harness certainly divides opinion, and often other things.
Some near misses but 3 kids show all in good order!
Also I seem to remember having to tie in using a bowline? Or am I dreaming that bit single handed bowline was always a good challenge in scouts one handed activities still a challenge 😉
Not seen anyone use it for years. I think the main advantage was that you could theoretically tie it with one hand?
You can (though I can't, I'm crap). You can similarly undo it if it isn't under load, which presents a potential issue for climbers. 😁
I have my bright pink 1994 Petzl harness…
Mine is similarly subtle. It's nominally purple.
How are you rigging for friction to be a potential issue?
A single carabiner:
Apologies, let me rephrase.
How are you rigging for friction on the harness to be a potential issue?
How are you rigging for friction on the harness to be a potential issue?
Ah, I get you. I thought you were speaking of friction losses in a system when someone falls.
Having been dropped once from the top of a wall, I can say that not only was my wife's hand nicely burnt but so was her leg loop and leggings...
Ah, bowlines. My dad tied in on a bowline and tied me on one my first climbs in the 70s. Observatory Ridge on the Ben and Recess Route on the Cobbler. But I wasn't going to be falling any distance on to it and my dad could have soloed those routes.
But in hindsight my most impressive memory for old style ropes was seeing him do a vertical classic abseil 80 feet down a tree after putting up a rope swing for my pals an I.
Using the waist belt in addition to the belay loop is good practice because it introduces another point of safety in the unlikely but possible scenario that the belay loop were to fail.
I'm sure you didn't mean to type that but just in case .... Don't do this. It will result in most of your weight being borne on your waist loop, ie pulling up on your rib cage.
All the more reason to use a screwgate rather than tie in directly then.
Again, jezus no.
General good practice is to tie in alongside the belay loop,
Yes. Agreed.
( just to be 100% clear, making sure you loop through the leg loop strap as well as the waist belt 🙂
A father/son team had an incident on the opening weekend at Big Depot. It wasnt reported because it never came to anything due to the fact it is basically surrounded by bouldering standard matting.
Experienced enough looking father took a fall from 2/3rd 15m walls. Son (16-19) didnt have brake rope tight and it slipped his grasp. Father fell from about 10m with son trying to grasp the rope. Father landed incredibly well and son stood there looking at his burnt hands.
I looked, my daughter looked and a few older climbers commented but basically everyone just carried on as normal. Holy shit that could have been so much worse but for the matting and the fathers landing technique. Very impressive
