[Closed] Ok who's for leaving? - an emigration question

I'd caution anyone against moving to Finland.
As has been said, right wing party in coalition government (True Finns).
Mountain biking exists but compared with the UK it is dire.
Prejudice against gay people and non whites is very evident, especially outside Helsinki. Prejudice against anyone who isn't Finnish is very evident.
It's a horribly isolating culture, very difficult to find work, very difficult to integrate, nigh on impossible to learn the language. Then there's the dark. Don't underestimate what the lack of light will do to you in the winter.

I'm glad I lived there though. I live in Scotland now and even on the coldest winter day, I feel pretty much alright 🙂

If thousands leave at least the net migration figures will come down, so that's one promise met.

Depending on the deal done, there could be 10's of thousands like me forced to return to the UK.

Dark Side, I sympathise with your wife but if you move to Finland, you'll be in the same situation as she feels she is in now.
Honestly, you have to register at the local police station when you move to Finland and you are given papers which they tell you to carry with you at all times. I kid you not!

it has a lottery....

They have that in addition to a visa system. I got a visa as I had a job to go to

I'm waiting for Clinton-Trump but thinking about Canada or US

The US is already like Remainers worst fears.

Plus, you will have to be very lucky to get in. Green card lottery is slim, and whilst you can get a visa if a US company can't find any US citizens with their skills, it's such a ballache for a company to do that it's very rare for them to bother, and they have so many people that they can find someone with close skills and train them up. You need *very* specific skills and they need to be very good.

Don't really want to leave the UK, but the country's future is looking bleak.

@igm as I said future looks far bleaker in Europe even before Brexit. They are looking at the abyss now. This is why international organisations and the US did not want us to leave, Europe is already sick and this could be terminal

nick1962 - Member
Why?
Much of the European Union is not the prosperous ,liberal panacea which the remainers seem to think.Right wing neo nazi parties thrive throughout most of Europe and many have represenation in the European parliament-even the odious UKIP MEPs wouldn't align with them!

^^^ see these comments about how hard it is to get into the US, Australia etc tricky too. That shows how ridiculous and unusual the EU system is.

No jambers it'd be ridiculous if a new yorker needed a work permit to get a job in massachusets. That's what Germany France etc realised ages ago.

I quite like where I live, missus is Scottish and we'd had a vague plan to go there eventually. Seriously considering doing that sooner rather than later.

I have no problem with the vote going the wrong way for my beliefs, except it seems to have brought quite a few flag waving nationalist morons out of the woodwork and given them a voice.

I realise that not everyone voting leave was of that type, but noticing your neighbours talking about getting "England back" and blaming the Polish farm workers for all their ills and how it's all going to change now, is just a bit unpleasant.

Just not sure that a move will get me away from it. The economic side of things wil be everywhere, I'll simply be screwed over in a different way to if we'd stayed. The flag waving nationalists are everywhere.

Might just keep my head down and get on with enjoying myself.

Somewhere in BC, in fact it's still the plan.

As we are both the wrong side of 30 though, Canada makes it really tough. There are ways though, looking at buying a business as an alternative approach, we shall see though.

Amusingly I've seen some press about a reciprocal migration agreement post brexit with relaxed points - Canada was on the list, so, every cloud & all that.

The only thing keeping us in the UK at the moment is family.

Hoping to move to France soonish.
I'm French and have a house there. And lots of family.
Work don't worry me
If you want to work it is possible.

[img] [/img]

😉

No jambers it'd be ridiculous if a new yorker needed a work permit to get a job in massachusets.

To be fair I'd quite like Europe to truly be one country - however that's a) an aside and b) not going to happen this week.

I'm aware what the US is like. I've lived, worked or visited 44 of the states and I am also aware that they are quite different.
Middle America wouldn't suit me really, but coastal is very different.
I doubt with my background and contacts I'd have much difficulty getting in - if I did it I'd probably do it via the company I already work for who have taken several people from the UK. I'm across there working with their senior managers and VPs reasonably regularly, so I'm known.
As another aside "returning ETSA" queues at immigration are wonderful.

May I ask why? I mean this would be the absolute opposite to (for example) scottish indy. I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, I'm just not sure what the benefit would be?

I was looking at Whistler property last night, very doable.
I have no skills to take over there but should be able to get some work as a gigolo or something.

Is new york in a different country to massachusets?

I could only assume that the argument is that they're different states, as are Germany and France... and that the EU and the US are similar political beasts

Germany and france are different countries; soverign states with different governments, militaries, social systems. It's really not a comparison.

Spanish wife - few tears this weekend asking "why don't British people want us here anymore" ? What can I tell her. She gets up at 6am every day for the last 12 years and goes to work in a London primary school, not a single day missed in 12 years. She teaches the kids a bit of spanish in her spare time after school. This is a tiny example of what will be missed in the future of the narrow minded new "Great Britain"... But it will be awesome because "Maurien" from Hull is FREE !

Wrecker - because I believe in large economic blocks, it would sort out a lot of the financial issues and I genuinely feel as European as I feel British.
My sort of Scots nationalism was never based on nation states, or who I dislike - it's a personal thing about me about where I started from and what I can bring to others. I don't need Scots independence, or the UK flouncing out of Europe for that. Freedom of movement simply allows me to take who and what Scotland made me to a wider audience - and to listen to more people tell their story.
Actually I'd like all borders everywhere tearing down in terms of movement for individuals.
And how do you then address immigration if you don't have walls? You work to make the places people come from good places to be, so the only driver to move is interest, curiosity about everyone else.

Like I said not going to happen this week.

I've been treating Europe as one big country for a while. There are a few irritating bits that still use different currencies and there's that island place they spend up to half an hour asking dumb questions and checking things before they'll let me in or even out. For Spain I just check there's an extra warning triangle in the boot, Italy a phrase book, Germany an E4 sticker on the windscreen... . It all flows by seamlessly from Lidl to Lidl.

@ Edukator , it is ok , tax evasion is national sport .

Such a shame that people would just rather bail at the first signs of any trouble rather than offer something constructive to help smooth things over. The grass is not always greener people.

Why should I help the leavers (those who are quitting on Europe and Britain's place within Europe)?

They've hurt my children's future.

I'm looking forward to all the handwringers buggering off, it will make [s]the UK[/s] England a much more tolerable place to live

Fair enough igm, that's actually a nice rationale.
I find all this "leaving the UK" stuff a bit knee jerk. The UK opts out of the EU, so move to another country which isn't in the EU?
It might not be quite left wing enough for some, but look around! There is some seriously scary right wing populism in europe. Front nationale in france, Golden dawn in Greece, alternative for germany, the finnish one, hell it was only in may that austria gave Hofer 49.7% of the vote. Even Canada had Harper for 9 years, similar australia with Howard (who was a [i]liberal[/i] by their measure)
Things might not be perfect here, but I'd bet that we are one of the most tolerant, inclusive countries in the world. Not being part of a (less than perfect) organisation won't change that.

Wrong, it will still be full of ****s

No handwringing here, just anger and realism.

And just an addendum to the nice bit for Wrecker. Strangely I do believe in countries - but only as a means for choosing sporting teams. Under while rules I guess Yorkshire qualifies.

All I can advise is that if you are top high end of your skill rate is to get as much references together as a portfolio and search outside the EU. The EU is full of low skilled workers and even this Country has for a while now Devoiding our work force to accommodate this basic crap and this Country is full of it. Years back City & Guilds would give you a chance anywhere in the World now most of our qualifications are fake and if your at the top of your game it isn't hard to weed these out.

I'll be leaving the UK. No, I'm not going anywhere.

we were planning the move before Brexit , just want to do it before the Uk is out for practical reasons .

My rationale, Wrecker, is there is a pretty good chance of a decade long recession looming in Europe. Already 90% of my family is abroad. For my family to stay, I'd anticipate having to pay for right to remain anyway, so might as well spend that money on a visa for elsewhere. I hear you on the far right, but I think you're wrong. I think this result will give the far right traction here as well.

A rush and a push and the land is ours. Or move to Sweden, like me !

Some inspiration for francophones.

All fair reasons rich.

I think this result will give the far right traction here as well.

most of our qualifications are fake and if your at the top of your game it isn't hard to weed these out.

Confused by that ? please explain ? Is it the industry you work in.

Racism & xenophobia is present in, I expect, all nations. Farage and Brexit has just made it more acceptable in this crap hole of a country. I'm out as soon as possible.

We were planning to leave the country in a couple of years anyway to go to Austria once Jnr has finished compulsory education. But it wasn't that we didn't like this place, just a lifestyle choice of trying to do more of the things we like doing more of the time.

We still want to go somewhere different, it's just we might have to re-evaluate where.

The whole racism thing being attached to Brexit is bollocks.

Anti-immigration sentiment is certainly one of the chief reasons Leave won.

What did you think of this poster?
[img] ?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=03df8fb02a8b973725b4e6739b8d3c30[/img]

The pic was taken in the Balkans or somewhere like that IIRC.

Anti-immigration sentiment is certainly one of the chief reasons Leave won.

Came soooo close to moving to Canada a few years ago. Only bereavements in my wife's family stopped us. So wish we had gone now. This place is going to the dogs.

After Brexit Mrs raving dave said maybe it's time to plan our own Brexit! Looks like Canada may be back on.

I want my kiddies to grow up in a pleasant tolerant inclusive society. Not this dump

I've worked in rural Canada and in Sydney, a few years back mind. I liked it but I'd rather live and work here. But...

What has happened here is a shocker to many of us. The key determinants of how people voted were age, education and location. The idea that there is one Britain with a generally similar view is gone for ever. Probably it was a myth. Probably it is a deserved kicking. But the triumph of some opportunistic manipulative liars, aided by press owned by some rather biased individuals really hurts and sucks.

I feel way more in common with lots of people in France Spain Italy and Germany now than I do with what appears to be the majority of my own country. But I'm too old to move. But I really understand why people would.

South San Francisco is looking very attractive when teen2 finishes his A levels. We will be well underway to finishing Article 50. International movement is not hard in my line of work.

I moved to NZ from Manc a couple of months ago, nothing to do with potential Brexit, although it saddens me that we've voted to leave the EU. So far so good, think I'll stay a while.