Oh dear, my new job is toxic

What was it that made you want to return to Essex? Does that reason still exist?

Its not being "a quitter" to recognise a mistake and correct it.

What was it that made you want to return to Essex? Does that reason still exist?

Good question. I initially moved to Devon to support my parents as they got older. They are now both gone and I felt I needed to take back control of some areas of my life and move to an area I know well and start over on my own terms.

A seemingly good job came up in an area I know well and it seemed a good fit; I've tended to follow the work most of my life and whilst not career driven I do feel the need to take on jobs that I find fulfilling. In terms of the work attraction still existing, the answer is no. The job is being altered around me and the environment is definitely not as advertised. I'm breaking even financially at the moment but the longer I stick out a bad situation that will change.

Feel for you OP. I’d chalk it up to a life lesson and move back to Devon. Unless you have an opportunity to find other work in Essex quickly. No chance of a frank conversation with management?

Not fully understanding your situation, particularly as far as your previous life in Devon is concerned  it's apparent that's what's  calling you. I'd say run, run for the hills and ride out the stuff in Devon. Follow your heart, nothing else matters.

Gut instinct is often right. Bin it, find something else

I’m not a quitter

This isn't always the positive trait its made out to be so don't get hung up on it. Sometimes the smart thing to do is recognise the situation and do something about it.

Oh - you know when you start a new job and they put you on a probationary period - that goes both ways.

TJ is entirely right, it's not being a quitter if the new situation isn't what you thought you were getting into and to correct it.

If I were you, I'd be polishing the CV off and having a look at what's closer to your Devon home

This is not generic advice, even though it sounds it:

your post is extremely well written & worded. Considered, thoughtful and reflective.

I think you’ve got this. You’ve no need to rush. I can’t steer you in one direction or another based on what you’ve told us, but I think you’re gonna come through it and find the right direction yourself. Take your time. I’ve read posts here before where I worry about the OP, this one’s different, I think you’ll sus it out soon enough.

Run, don't walk away and don't look back. Life is too short and something else will happen along.

Good luck.

That job is dead to you.  Treat it that way.  Move on mentally and just start looking for a new role.  Do the bare minimum, check out.  No one will hire you unhappy.  If they fire you, ace.

Its much easyier to get a job with job.

Ferris

They mis-sold you the job, it's not quitting, it's "returning for a full refund".

Is your job in Devon still open? (did you burn bridges?).

Give them a call, what's the worst that can happen?

No chance of a frank conversation with management?

Not really, management are the source of the problem. Its astonishing what's been allowed to fester in the place.

Good point about the probation period; its something I've said to staff I've recruited in the past. Never thought I would consider being the one to pull the eject lever. I guess after putting so much effort in I'm reluctant to admit its been nothing but a learning experience. I've been dealing with the toxic situation since starting the job and keeping on top of it, but on Friday when driving back to my house in Devon to do a bit of work there I was struck by a voice in my head suggesting it would be easy to just pack my stuff up and never return. Never felt that way before. It was like a gut punch. I've been reeling from it ever since.

I've been in my current role a long time but have been gifted new management that are turning it into a cesspit.

I'm not quitting, I'm looking for something better and so much more looks better now this workplace has sunk.

Get out, I haven't done it soon enough, it's ruining me and just the prospect of leaving gives so much happiness back.

Kind words Goldfish24, thank you.

My old job isn't still available; I mentored the chap who took it on after I left (I'm good like that). I didn't burn my bridges when I left though, respected my old boss too much for that. My new one I'd happily back my car over. Repeatedly.

I guess deep down I know what to do. I'm driving back to Devon on Thursday night and working from home on Friday. Time to gather my thoughts and plan the next move over the weekend I suppose. I've spent my whole career dealing with difficult situations, time to apply that experience to something personal and work through the problem.

Thanks for the feedback chaps.

If I do decide to jump ship I will enjoy telling my estate agents to take a hike and that I'll be staying. Their antics are worth a thread all of its own...

You're in a strong place.  They seem to need you more than you need them.  The best and only way to negotiate is if you're prepared to lose, and you are.  Go in hard, tell them what they're doing wrong and what your plan is and what you want.  They saw something they wanted when they hired you so go ahead and show them what they got.

Also - applying for jobs doesn't mean you have to take them.  No harm in applying and seeing what happens. Ok so interviews can be time consuming, but take vacation days.

I once thought 'stuff this' on a permie job, I emailed out a CV and was swamped with replies. Got a much better role really quickly. Ok so I work in an industry with high churn and (at the time) high demand, but it was funny telling my shit bosses I was leaving next week.

Other way round for me in that I left my home town and walked into a job in another town that turned into a nest of vipers. And after a year I walked out with nothing to go to. But a contracting role came up and I went for it. And stayed in the role for 4 years.
Happy in my work now but l understand the urge to get back to where your friends are.

Any chance of trying to do some temporary/contract work alongside your new replacement in Devon? Any other roles available?

Without wanting to know figures how much do you need to keep the roof over your head in Devon? Is there a mortgage? Can you flip burgers in McDonald's to pay the bills sorta thing?

I’m not a quitter

When everyone around you is frantically running around amidst smoke, flames and screaming, expediting your exit from the burning building quickly and with dignity is always the best option. It ain’t quitting!

If you're worried about what leaving might look like to others, it can often look better to your next employer if you go quickly and can explain why rather than after 6months or after a year. The nightmare for an employer is you recruit someone, invest a year plus training them then have them quit. Especially if you have a good record in previous roles and you can explain in a STAR sort of way why the previous role wasn't right without sounding like you're bitter or angry (this can be really hard, especially as it sounds like you've had some really bad luck here).

"The situation was that I was recruited for role X and my main focus was Y, however when I started the role it had changed to Z for [reasons which sound professional and balanced, i.e. don't slag anyone off]. I quickly recognised this issue and decided to look for new roles that would be X. [Then some positive stuff about how great the role your going for is which justified your prior decision]."

Back to Devon. Sounds like the right thing for you.
And it sounds like ‘can’t sell my house’ would be a reasonable escape clause if you don’t want to go with ‘the job isn’t meeting my expectations’.
See how you feel on Sunday when you’ve had a ‘free’ day in Devon on Saturday and need to go back east.

I moved jobs into what should have been a good move, about 15 or so years ago (same county, same industry.

But it was rubbish. The 'local' folks I was working with were all fine (and also not happy with the changes and re-orgs they constantly got imposed on them

Similar to you, the amount of total BS and nastiness from above was appalling.   After 3 months I thought I was in the wrong place.  After 6 was certain. Took me a few more months to survey the landscape and get out.   The place was draining my soul.  Erratic schizophrenic senior management and a bully voy attitude. (On huge wages).

I left and took another role (same industry again) on less ££, more hours, less holiday, no bonus, more responsibility).   In the following 15+ years, not a ingle day of regret getting out of that.

I'd say get out before you get pulled down to the level of the management.

I don't know enough to make a sound judgement, but based on what you've said and the thought of spending however many years in your current role would see me back in Devon, tout de suite

Best of luck and happiness

I was struck by a voice in my head suggesting it would be easy to just pack my stuff up and never return.

Listening to that pesky inner voice is not necessarily a sign of weakness* . Sometimes it has a valid point.

*Unless it's telling you to eat a whole pack of Mr Kipling's apple pies in one sitting or kill everyone in Basildon town centre.

Unless you are comfortably off enough to take a break and/or confident enough in your abilities to get a job quickly, I'd stay put while looking for another job rather than just walk out to an uncertain future. But get on with the job search!

I walked out of a failing job many years ago, it worked fine for me but I (a) was moving to live with my to-be-wife who had a job with a salary that we'd have survived on indefinitely if need be (b) was very confident that given my quals, age and location I'd find a job quickly (in the event, I had a new job before my notice period was up).

I know that working in a shit situation is shit, but it will pass, and you don't want to dig yourself into a more serious hole while trying to dig yourself out of it.

As others have said, I'd be looking for work elsewhere, be it back to Devon or around Essex or maybe somewhere else entirely..... Seems to be no shortage of jobs at the moment, but a shortage of good well mannered efficient workers as or original post would suggest you are.

How toxic is toxic? Enough to stick it out temporarily or?

I started a new job July last year and within 6 weeks started noticing some apparent red flags however it was a 36% pay rise from my last role so it became a golden handcuffs situation, decided at month 8 enough is enough and it's not somewhere I'd like to continue working. My colleagues are fantastic as is my line manager, but the senior level management and other departments with their constant meddling are a nightmare, as is the politics and finger pointing. I like to work with an accountability/lessons learned and fire prevention attitude as opposed to playing blame games and fire fighting.

I found it significantly tricky to get any other offers or much interest until it recently ticked over to a year, the first question recruiters and interviewers had was "why are you looking to move so soon having been in your current role less than a year?", despite being professional in my answers and not moaning or complaining, usually dressing it up like "I'm looking for something that more aligns with my skillset" wasn't enough. However as soon as a year ticked by the question became the usual "why are you looking to move on?" and I've had significantly more interest from recruiters and more interviews, was like a night and day difference.

The longer you stay, the harder it will be to leave the current situation. For some reason toxic environments consume you and prevent clarity of thought, which quite clear you still are thinking logically

I wouldn’t jump without anything to go to though, it’s always easier to find work whilst your working.

The only thing I’m not getting is whether Essex or Devon is right for you? It doesn’t sound like you have a pull for either location, but I imagine there are more job opportunities in Essex ?

Interesting about house prices in Devon I just assumed houses there would always be in big demand

Think of it as a life lesson, you have experienced, you have learnt and you have grown.

Now get the heck out of there

I found it significantly tricky to get any other offers or much interest until it recently ticked over to a year, the first question recruiters and interviewers had was “why are you looking to move so soon having been in your current role less than a year?”, despite being professional in my answers and not moaning or complaining

I think if you're talking to a recruiter, it's totally fine to make a pointed comment about "management style" and even to mention that it "might be considered a toxic environment". They won't be under the impression that all senior managers are perfect or anything.

By no means suggesting you should stay but once the avalanche of people leaving started could that have triggered the toxic culture? People turning on each other when some of their best people left rather than admitting they were in a slump and dealing with it? If it's been like that for years and years it would be time to escape for me but if people talk of better times in the recent past it would spark second thoughts about whether there will be a rock bottom point and start to recover once they get a month or two of no one leaving. If it's the later holding out could see the start of an interesting time as they get back to where they once were, the former then the place is doomed!

And totally agree that looking after yourself and doing what's best for you is definitely not quitting!

If you can just walk away from the job and go back to Devon, do it - how many months/years can you manage without an income?

Negotiate a payrise with the current place (sounds like they need you). Check out, do the bare minimum while looking for a new job, get a new job, don't look back.

If I were you I would use this opportunity to stick it out just long enough to sell your house for whatever, get a visa and move to mainland Europe/Australia wherever. What you're experiencing is basically just 'England' nowadays. If the visa sounds too hard, try Scotland as a test.

house prices in Devon I just assumed houses there would always be in big demand

There is huge demand, but a falling market really pits sellers expectations against buyers reality. Not just Devon.

I think you've had a range of sensible opinion and advice and it sounds like it's helped crystallise your thoughts, just to say that we see a lot of posts on here regarding mental health many of which are exacerbated by unreasonable working situations.

You take care of yourself Big-Dave, because sure a hell your employer won't be prioritising your wellbeing in those working conditions. Even if this means taking a temporary step back or sideways. Good luck pal.

I don't see how "stay in Essex" or "move back to Devon" is relevant. A turd is geographically independent.

Rather, you have two issues here.

1) You don't like your job. That's readily rectified, look for another. I guarantee with cast-iron certainty that no-one at your current employer will care, doubly so given the turnover rate. Give it six months they'll be like "Dave who?"

2) You're potentially losing money on your house sale. Well, so is everyone, but if house prices fall then it makes buying cheaper. What's tens of thousands on a sale worth hundreds? My old place sold for £62k and that was higher than I'd expected.

If you're two months in, I wouldn't even mention it on the CV. Or if you do, don't talk in euphemisms - just come out and say the truth "they changed the role significantly right after hiring me, and it wasn't a job that I wanted or where I would be adding my best value".

You could try having a no holds barred conversation with management: "your behaviour is terrible and if you don't let me fix it for my team, I'm leaving". But I don't have much faith in workplaces changing: the same dickheads that managed my toxic office ten years ago are still in place today. In fact the outcome of that conversation might be "well if you don't like it Big-Dave, you can **** off today". But what do you care? You've got a nice house in Devon, you can drive straight over there.

Been there twice. Lasted 6 months before going back to my previous employer in both instances

First place was a move to a smaller company but a more senior role than I had before. Pretty soon realised the entire office was toxic and full of absolute back stabbers and manipulators. The team I was managing were fine but the other department heads were just awful people. Final straw was a Friday afternoon and a woman absolute losing the plot with me because I'd dared to introduce a new thing in my team that required zero input or approval from her. She was physically shaking with rage. I sat there and calmly listened to her before returning to my desk. Quietly packed up every single one of my belongings without drawing attention to myself and left for the very last time. Emailed the MD over the weekend telling him I wouldn't be back. The fact they never contested this speaks volumes and within 6 months they were out of business.

Second time was a move to a big company but a new type of role for me. Despite them being an absolutely enormous US company with multiple divisions, the Glasgow office was like something from the 70s in terms of culture. The guy I was working for was an absolute helmet. Classic bullshitting salesman. A vain idiot and a bully. Came up to me one day deadly serious and told me he didn't like the shirt I was wearing and not to wear it again. Everyone in the office was terrified of the senior leaders. The support I needed for my role was absolutely non-existent. Got to my 6 month review with my prick of a boss and the office manager. Walked in, sat down, they asked me how I thought the 6 months had gone. I hadn't planned it but without hesitation I said "I'll make this easy for you, I'll hand in my notice now". They looked at each other, nodded, and that was it. 3 months garden leave with a company car at my disposal was the only silver lining from the debacle. From what I know, the role I was in has been filled multiple times over the years and no one lasts much longer than I did.

Evening all, thank you for all of your feedback. It is genuinely useful.

In response to questions asked about the toxicity of the workplace; it has become apparent that there may as well be a revolving door on the office so many people have left over the years. In the last couple of weeks two people have found work elsewhere. I have two direct reports I've never met, as they are seemingly on permanent secondment to other departments and never want to return. It turns out my predecessor was bullied out the door and another recent employee has had a breakdown. The way in which junior staff are discussed by senior managers, often in an open office, is staggering in its inappropriateness. All really hopeful signs for the future...

Unfortunately it does seem that the management culture has started to become normal for the staff working there, so even the team members I've been trying to protect are just furthering the problems with their behaviour and attitude. For a bit more detail for those who may be wondering, I work in the waste industry so walking into work every day to deal with strong personalities and problems is part of what I do; I enjoy the dynamic working conditions.  I think I may have met my limits with this one however.

I'm working remotely from Devon on Friday to give myself a bit of space and mull things over. I also have another estate agent coming around to revalue my house. I have a strong feeling that I stand to loose a lot of money if I sell now, and for the current job that just isn't justifiable. Devon has had a buoyant market for the last couple of years but things have changed a lot for sellers since I put my house on the market.

I have started casting around for other work to see what is available just as a back up. If I do leave it will be justified on the grounds that the job is veering very far away from the direction I was expecting to go in and also on the grounds that in financial terms my carefully planned, thought out, and heavily spread sheeted moving plans now lie in tatters. I am very fortunate that I can afford to tough it out without a job for a few months if need be.

When it comes to potential future employers, if I do leave after only two months I have no problem with telling them why I left.

Just need to spend more time looking at all of the options although I have learned to trust my instincts over the years and one option is feeling more right than the others. You can all probably guess which option that is but I need to get a bit of space before finalising my course of action.  A couple of posters have suggested my new employers need me. I think they probably do; just need to figure out if I need them.

Could you ask the estate agent about letting your place in Devon?

You had a reason to leave Devon, you quit a job you liked etc.  There must be other jobs in Essex in your field.

Well folks,

The email has been sent and tomorrow morning I'll be in the office to see what the impact will be and to find out when I leave.

Its been a long weekend of beer drinking, loud music and solo bike rides to help me get my head around the situation, but when it came to typing out my intention to resign I felt absolutely nothing. That alone tells me something, and when all of the options are considered the job simply isn't working so best to go.

I still feel Essex is a part of my future but there isn't a lot on the job market up there which would suit my background and skills. Plus the recent experience has rather tarnished my view of the area where I've been working, which I know is irrational but I'm keen just to get away now.

Don't fancy letting out my place in Devon as I want to get it back in the same shape it is now, plus with the costs faced by landlords these days it would be a massive pain to deal with. Far better to move back in and try to get a local job to tide me over whilst I plan my next step. I've got two applications out for lower tier jobs than the ones I've been doing recently but they look like enjoyable options; I've done them before elsewhere and they are well within my capabilities. Plus, Tesco want to interview me on Wednesday evening to see about becoming a delivery driver! I'm not afraid of hard work and I have a total lack of ego when it comes to earning money to pay the bills.

I feel surprisingly relaxed about the situation which is probably very naive or delusional of me, or perhaps means that I've made the right decision and corrected a plan that was going awry. Time will tell.

Well done Big-Dave. I'm sure things will pan out just great in the medium term, certainly better than sticking in a poor company would.