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BBC reporting the sub's landing gear and rear cover found amongst debris.
Urgh. Nasty way to go but presumably quick
The speculation about the debris on the news is maddening
It’s no worse than the speculation on here. I haven’t seen anyone on the news wondering if they might have killed themselves to avoid suffocating. 🙄
Complete speculation but ironic if banging on the hull caused implosion... the whole thing is just awful and I wish BBC news hadn't splashed "Breaking" news about a "broken" submarine... "Update" might have been better...
By his own f-in admission..... CEO boasts about not following rules.
Where is Alanis?
Complete speculation but ironic if banging on the hull caused implosion
It was reported that on further analysis the banging was background noise.
“Update” might have been better…
the use of "live" for the continously updated website feeds can often be a bit awkward given what the subject often is.
I haven’t seen anyone on the news wondering if they might have killed themselves to avoid suffocating.
Equally, they haven’t been celebrating one less billionaire.
Makes you wonder, they found the detachable legs (seawater 16hr fuse) and a panel. So the sub could still be floating around...
This is all very mawkish, and hard to avoid hearing about… near constantly. A sad story we don’t need to be feeding on 24/7.
Thanks for talking for all of us kelvin. You must be really important. A good way to avoid hearing about something is not to open and contribute to a thread with a topic you don't wish to hear about.
Almost sounds like a Viz top tip.
By his own f-in admission….. CEO boasts about not following rules
So it turns out that when it comes to life-threatening situations, the ‘rules’ are there for a reason?
Who knew?
I totally agree with the CEO's remarks... he can/could go down in an old wheelie-bin for all I care. It's taking other people along for the ride which is reprehensible. The whole thing just stinks of cutting corners for profit. Writ large. The others had an idea of the risks I imagine, but the poor 19yo lad probably just thought 'this is gonna make my insta blow up'. Tragic. At least it was instant, and maybe they got to see the Titanic before it happened.
I started this thread and when I did I was not thinking about whether they were billionaires or white or whatever; I was just hoping they would find them alive and that some of the people in the world might unite in a common desire to help people in a maritime distress situation. Largely I think this happened but I am genuinely sorry that they haven’t been rescued - so far anyway, although it’s looking unlikely. And when I say that it does not mean that I am not also saddened by the loss of migrants on a fishing vessel and the like. I feel for every life lost at sea, billionaires or not. May they rest in peace if that is what the eventual outcome is.
I just don’t understand the fascination with the Titanic. It is just an old wrecked ship. The ocean floor is littered with the bloody things. Each to their own but risking life and limb to look at some rusty old shite seems like utter madness.
Makes you wonder, they found the detachable legs (seawater 16hr fuse) and a panel. So the sub could still be floating around…
As I understand it the rear 'panel' is the whole pointy bit at the back of the sub. No pointy bit, no sub? I guess maybe it could be just a cover for something.
I just don’t understand the fascination with the Titanic
You are not the only one. Okay it was a tragic and important maritime disaster, but I have never understood why it has been elevated to such prominence. And it is well over a hundred years since it sank.
There isn't even any mystery over why it sunk. Nor was it even a freak accident - ships that hit icebergs are very often likely to sink.
No pointy bit, no sub?
I think it's a cover, perhaps just to make it more efficient to move through the water, I think there will be a titanium dome under it to seal the sub. However, all a bit mute seeing as the latest update says from Oceangate says they believe the crew is dead.
this is gonna make my insta blow up
that went a bit flat.
IGMC
Rear Adm John Mauger, the First Coast Guard District commander says a remotely operated vehicle from Horizon Arctic discovered the tail cone of the Titan sub approximately 1,600 feet from the bow of the Titanic on the seafloor.
The debris is “consistent with a catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber”, he says.
From the Guardian.
Just stated that they’ve also found the fore and aft pressure bells of the sub along with the aft cone. All points to sudden catastrophic failure which can be the only logical explanation.
I just don’t understand the fascination with the Titanic
You wouldn't get me down there for love nor money but I totally understand the draw. It's the romance, the mythology and mystery of it. I rarely experience that emotional state these days because, well, the internet can reveal every mystery, and I'm lazy. But it's like when you're a kid and there's that huge tree that nobody has climbed, or the church tower, or the dark culvert that the brook runs into. Then later on, urban exploring, old mansions, trainyards etc... the buzz is delicious!
Or, cynic mode: it's all about the clout for social media 🙂
RIP
Anyone see the interview with Michael Harris on BBC news, 6.30ish? Ouch. Credible titanic site sub operator, was very direct on the risks and lack of testing etc. Said he wouldn't have got in it for a million dollars. Has been to the wreck 14 times in Ti sphere design subs.
It’s the romance, the mythology and mystery of it.
But the romance came after the fascination, and there is no mystery - it's the iceberg whodunit.
I guess the mythology is the alledged romance and mystery, so I'll give you that.
Sad conclusion to the incident.
But can't help thinking the gung-ho attitude of the CEO or Company are massively to blame.
Adventure tourism is a massive industry, whether it's a trek to Everest base camp, summiting Everest, plunging the depths of the ocean, going into space with Bezos or Branson or just a guided ride around the Lakes. There's risk involved in all of these - and more mundane activities.
Can't help thinking the more extreme end will find more niche adventures for those that can afford it.
Surprised that the solo British guy went on it though - sure I read he'd been down to the Challenger Deep on another submersible - the Titan looks very Heath Robinson in comparison (not sure Heath or Robinson would have put their name to it).
Sad end to the story, but not unexpected. I’m glad they didn’t suffer in any way
Calls for an investigation seem a bit pointless to me. Ultimately it’s clear that the vessel wasn’t fit for purpose, and had no place taking ‘tourists’, especially that poor 19 year old.
there is definitely a lesson to be learned here however for anyone else considering doing something similar, and I imagine anyone who is booked in to one of these tourist space flights is probably giving it a second thought now
Surprised that the solo British guy went on it though
It is a bit surprising. It sounded like he did a lot of adventuring so i would expect him to be able to assess risk. Maybe he decided that although it looked shonky he trusted that they had done the right work. A lot will come down to whether or not they properly assessed risks rather than what it appeared to be. I don't imagine the waivers will stand for much if they didnt take appropriate care
Calls for an investigation seem a bit pointless to me.
I think an investigation is very worthwhile, there are a lot of questions to be answered here, here are a few for starters:
- Was the fundamental design flawed or was there west and tear/deterioration in service
- Were all key components designed for this pressure with an adequate safety margin
- Was poor maintenance and inspection a problem
- What knowledge did the company have that some parts of the vessel were more at risk
- Who should be regulating and approving trips in vessels like this and did they do a good job?
No doubt much of this will come out in the inevitable law suits that will follow.
it’s the iceberg whodunit.
with possible twist of fire in the coal bunker hence steaming at full speed through a pre advised ice berg area
Calls for an investigation seem a bit pointless to me. Ultimately it’s clear that the vessel wasn’t fit for purpose, and had no place taking ‘tourists’, especially that poor 19 year old.
Probably more to close the loopholes that were being exploited than establish a cause at this stage. After all, it's obvious there are several billionaires out there that don't have an STW naval architecture degree and need protecting from something that's so obvious umpteen folk before them were taken in.
I imagine anyone who is booked in to one of these tourist space flights is probably giving it a second thought now
I think space flight is more tightly regulated though. Not least due to the risk of stuff falling on folk.
– Was the fundamental design flawed or was there west and tear/deterioration in service
Yes - there's a reason DSV's are usually spherical and not cylindrical.
– Were all key components designed for this pressure with an adequate safety margin
No, apparently the porthole was only certified to 1300m
– Was poor maintenance and inspection a problem
Yes - no non destructive ultrasound or similar was carried out before/after each mission
– What knowledge did the company have that some parts of the vessel were more at risk
Probably a fair bit - see gung-ho attitude of CEO and firing of 'Safety Expert'.
– Who should be regulating and approving trips in vessels like this and did they do a good job?
No one - it's not mandatory to get it type approved apparently, and Lloyds wouldn't insure it, so make of that what you will...
Deep sea tourism doesn't appear to be regulated, don't even know if you have to get a permit to dive Titanic like you do other wrecks.
Caveat the above with most of the info I got through reading news articles and other online sources.
I'm not Marine/Naval engineer but have an interest in wrecks etc through diving.
Watch last nights channel 4 news. It’s pretty damning. The ‘vessel’ had obviously been cobbled together in someone’s backstreet lock-up and been declared as ‘experimental’ to avoid having to comply with any regulations.
I’d be absolutely amazed if this all turns out to be legal. Which I’m sure the families of the dead wil be about to test
But the main point is that you’d have to be out of your ****ing mind to be agreeing to a trip as dangerous as that on some untested ‘experimental’ vehicle
Would you get on a plane that somebody had knocked up in their shed?
Calls for an investigation seem a bit pointless to me. Ultimately it’s clear that the vessel wasn’t fit for purpose, and had no place taking ‘tourists’, especially that poor 19 year old.
there is definitely a lesson to be learned here however for anyone else considering doing something similar,
would the point of an investigation not be to ensure that the right lessons are learned (eg it might be a need for testing/classification, it might be a need not to use carbon, it might be that it was a material aging thing, there will also be lessons on how you respond to an incident, and you think there should be lessons on who is allowed on board etc.)
RIP hopefully they didn’t suffer
<p style="text-align: left;">Titanics big sister had interesting career, from trying to tow a battleship to taking out a U-boat.</p>
I’ve partied in the dining suite a few times.
Glad to see @dirkpitt has fully investigated the cause.
Would you get on a plane that somebody had knocked up in their shed?
Maybe, if it had previously completed more than 50 flights, including some very difficult and challenging flights.
But I wouldn't get into any 22 foot submarine in which only one person can stretch their legs, and then travel down over 12000 feet just to look at a rusting wreck, no matter how well constructed and vigorously tested the sub might be.
Even WW2 German U-boats would have felt like palaces compared to that.
I’d be absolutely amazed if this all turns out to be legal. Which I’m sure the families of the dead wil be about to test
mmm… Im not sure. If you inherited billions would you waste it suing the relics of the company that will almost certainly go bust anyway? If the CEO survived I could see you might want to make a point but in the circumstances it would seem like an expensive way to try and prove a point.
But the main point is that you’d have to be out of your ****ing mind to be agreeing to a trip as dangerous as that on some untested ‘experimental’ vehicle
well, I’m inclined to agree with that, although it wasn’t its first trip and I can see that this would give you a false sense of security. People take huge risks all the time, many of them being catastrophic - they just aren’t usually as public.
But the romance came after the fascination, and there is no mystery – it’s the iceberg whodunit.
I guess the mythology is the alledged romance and mystery, so I’ll give you that.
I think it demonstrates the arrogance of man’s belief the ship to be unsinkable hence the lack of life boats and the fact it foundered on its maiden voyage adds to the notoriety. It did lead to positive outcomes regards life boat provision and the establishment of the ice patrol though.
@tonyf1 although not it’s maiden voyage, there do appear to be some parallels here, especially if an inquest brings about some regulation as an output of this tragedy.
A quick wiki on ‘Alvin’ DSV certainly makes you think the craft was far from capable.
Actually, the lack of lifeboats wasn’t because it was ‘unsinkable’. The regulations applied to other ships as well. I believe they effectively did a hazard analysis which said “How could this sort of ship sink.?” Essentially they decided that if it hit rocks it would be close enough to shore not to need enough for everyone because they could essentially shuttle people ashore. If they hit another ship they reckoned it would stay afloat long enough for rescue to arrive. They just didn’t factor in icebergs. There was logic in the regulations, but it was sadly flawed.
I think it demonstrates the arrogance of man’s belief the ship to be unsinkable
I think that is part of the mythology. It was never claimed that the Titanic was unsinkable.
In reference to both the Olympic and Titanic the claim that White Star Line made was :
"as far as it is possible to do so, these two wonderful vessels are designed to be unsinkable"
The Olympic, which was pretty much identical, never sunk.
RIP hopefully they didn’t suffer
Equivalent of the Eiffel Tower landed on them, doubt they even knew what was happening
But the main point is that you’d have to be out of your ****ing mind to be agreeing to a trip as dangerous as that on some untested ‘experimental’ vehicle
I wonder what the share price of Branson's company is doing right now...
Hopefully tanking as he's a greasy weaselly shitbag