I was out cycling on my road bike today, due to laziness I didn't get out early early. Normally I'm out before dawn but today I didn't get out until about lunchtime. Therefore the numbers are closed passes I got were significant. Only one of them was close enough to make me swear and cause me to think I was about to go meet my maker. So I suppose that could be considered to be a Victory in today's roads
One of the things I noticed about all of the close passes is that it's not the boy racers. I was overtaken several times by souped up m3's and cars with lots of pops and bangs. But every single one of them gave me plenty of room. With the exception of one p plate young driver - all the rest will probably in their 50s and older (sometimes much older). I genuinely believe that they don't understand how close they're coming to people and that the law has changed.
I really do believe that when people have to renew their driving licences perhaps a refresher on the rules that have changed in the last 30 to 40 years might not be a bad idea? Perhaps a mini test in a driving simulator just a double check that they understand what the new threats and Hazard on the road are also might not go amiss
What are other people's experiences? Do you find it is the younger drivers who are recklessly passing cyclists or the older drivers as I have observed above
Run of the mill drivers TBH, who have no appreciation of cyclists. Not usually the boy/girl racers ! I commute as well on the bike.
Horseboxes.
Pot, kettle, black and all that.
You can't sterotype like that. My experience is that close passes can be by any vehicle driven by anybody. The truely scary overtakes are by big vehicles like lorrys, tractors etc. I do lots of road riding and the majority of drivers are quite careful it's the few that aren't.
The best overtake today was the knob in an Astra that close passed us and nearly hit the car coming the other way to get to the junction before us, it didn't seem to have dawned on him that we could have just filtered up to the front of the line of cars.
Nice person of the day is shared by the Golf driver who was very courteous and the tractor driver who just followed us until he turned off.
Do you find it is the younger drivers who are recklessly passing cyclists or the older drivers as I have observed above
I do think there is something in older people not understanding how much bigger their car is nowadays. Even if you have been buying a fiesta every year since you passed your test in 1970 there is going to be a leap in size every few years.
There are the photos of the old minis next to newer ones and it really is the difference, especially for whatever they call the estates, between "could have given me space" and "I need new pants".
However I think morons of all ages might go for a stupidly close pass. I remember some arsehole passing me close and then seeing them slam their brakes on after trying a particularly moronic overtake.
In my recentish experience it tends to be the drivers of bigger cars, Range Rovers, big Mercs & Beemers, etc that tend to give more room. It's the small car drivers that seem to be the greatest threat (a few months to had a mini "driver" pull acroo in front of me to the kerb and only stopped when their front wheel was touching mine! Hadn't even seen me in my reflective jacket and bike lit up like the Blackpool illuminations).
Of course, all car types have some idiot drivers but smaller cars seem to have more of them, around here anyway.
This is going to be blame the older drivers with no evidence and lots of preside.
Its actually anybody who is impatient.
Its anybody who regards cyclist safety as unimportant when compared to them saving a few seconds getting to the back of the next queue.
I’ve caught up with two drivers in the past at lights to berate them and it turned out they were cyclists and genuinely didn’t realise how close they’d been.
It can be quite random.
Its anybody who regards cyclist safety as unimportant when compared to them saving a few seconds getting to the back of the next queue.
I think it does depend on what someone learnt to drive in and how they then adjust. Its a boiling the frog scenario where someone has been taught that x space, judging from the drivers seat, is the right distance to pass a cyclist years back results now in a "i want dinner before you **** me" .
Looking at my current car from when I learnt to drive to the current model. A good pass at that time would be a tad close in my car now and with the current model it would be "so what do you want to name our kid?"
I’ve caught up with two drivers in the past at lights to berate them and it turned out they were cyclists and genuinely didn’t realise how close they’d been.
I did have a stupidly close pass from some pickup truck happily advertising a roadie shop. I can only assume they didnt comprehend quite how big their business tax deductible was.
Saturday's really close pass was by a young woman (possibly 18 years of age)in a teeny car, with not enough experience to realise that we are moving and not just stationary, also the lane was incredibly narrow.
Today's very close pass was a very old lady in a huge estate. blimey, she definitely needs to hand her licence in.
But as a whole it's van drivers, people of all ages in stupidly huge vehicles and knobs on phones.
can be quite random.
All sorts of reasons I'm sure...
Careless
Inconsiderate
Impatient
Incompetent
Bullying
Distracted
Tired
Drugged
Speeding
Inexperienced
the end result is the same...
On a related note something I have noticed relatively frequently is people starting the pass late. They pass with inches to spare but then continue heading rightwards until a car length or two they are in the right position at which point they hold it for a bit before drifting leftwards.
Run of the mill drivers TBH, who have no appreciation of cyclists.
Yep, the only significant close pass I had (which on a MTB ride that had maybe 1/2 kilometre of road) was a woman driving a Juke, who gave me zero room. She had no clue as to why I was pissed off with her.
pass with inches to spare but then continue heading rightwards until a car length
Yes I've had that many a time, a reflection of the driver's poor judgement of their speed, their vehicle and roadspace.
Bank holiday Monday yesterday. Stupid was dialled up accordingly. I saw enough from the safety of my metal box earlier to ensure I went almost fully off road on yesterday's ride. Doesn't help living by the seaside but imagine most places were equally bad.
Some of this seems to be down to driver training, in Manchester you quite often get passed closer than would seem optimal by learner drivers with a driving school. You also get overtake and then turn left or right very soon after the overtake.
down to driver training
indeed, one way of dealing with this is to get all learner drivers on a bike and drive past them at different speeds and distances in a controlled setting so they understand what it is like being on the outside of their motorised bubble...
indeed, one way of dealing with this is to get all learner drivers on a bike and drive past them at different speeds and distances in a controlled setting so they understand what it is like being on the outside of their motorised bubble...
Seen that done on a video training bus drivers to what the effects of their vehicles is like close up.
I think it's down to the training but also the attitude of all road users. I cycled a Mallorca a few years ago and the driving there (if you discount the tourists) is so much better, they're patient and give cyclists room.
I used a Garmin Varia light with the radar and it's really useful when riding in traffic, bit of an eye opener when you get home and see some of the closing speeds from cars approaching. I also find riding further out in the road helps, cars have got to go around you rather than just squeezing through.
I don't want to sound like I'm on a mission to defend cyclists but they are seen as a nuisance and they shouldn't be on the road. People are in such a hurry and we're just seen as another obstacle on the road.
My observations as someone who walks on country lanes with the dog -
The closer faster passes tend to be people over 50, with some notable exceptions. Mums with a car full, people who think that passing at the speed limit is OK, rather than slowing down. People who start off giving plenty of room but look at you as they pass so end up swerving towards you when they target fixate.
So basically I don't think there is a pre disposed demographic.
really useful when riding in traffic
I use a wing mirror on my bike, yes it's naff (as my son likes to tell me) but on the road I like to see what's coming up behind, how fast, etc, and make a judgement, also good for making eye contact with drivers.
so they understand what it is like
Some close passes are punishment passes and those drivers are usually fully aware. Training won't help those people.
punishment passes
true enough, in which case a camera and vid sent to police is what some in my group do, and it does get followed up and a call is made by an officer to the culprit, but yes there's always going to belligerent behaviour, on the roads as in life.
there's always going to belligerent behaviour, on the roads as in life.
Not really true, people don't drive shopping trolley'svaround Lidl like the do cars on roads, it seems to me to because fairly unique set of circumstances that lead to such poor road behaviours
I tend to think the majority I encounter are due to people just being disconnected from the act (art?) of driving. Modern motahs are quiet and refined and with the auto driving gadgets, you barely need to be awake to drive. Auto lane assist, radar cruise, auto steering etc. So long as there's a pulse on the steering wheel, the car goes on its merry way. Presumably some so far as integrating sat nav with auto steering so it does the lot as in an aircraft? This plus drivers are often hardly present, thinking of whatever it is they're rushing off to or from.
Having said that, I spent a month riding in Ireland last year and the difference is marked. Maybe, they're used to people using the lanes on horses/bikes/foot/carts etc but the difference between the UK's 'must get past at any cost' approach and the patience of the Oirish was refreshing. No beeping, revving or hassling and keeping well back until completely safe to act. Similar to riding on the Continent though that can be patchy and is getting worse IME.
We ride tandem a lot and the usual response to us is a smile and/or a wave. We had a middle aged neanderthal Range Rover pilot overtake through a traffic calming restriction recently (so road maybe 8' wide) then punish pass us a bit later (he'd stopped for fuel and we unknowingly leapfrogged him) as we'd complained during his initial effort. Fast forward another mile and some lights where he threatened to 'just touch our back wheel and kill us both' aaand get out and punch my lights out for good measure. Charming.
one of our cyclists a few years ago got a rear camera - quite a few drivers have been cautioned due to it and now many of our group carry them. It helps we have 2 senior garda's in our group.
BBC.CO.UK That's picture is of a boreen - most drivers who don't live on one don't drive on one.
I am always a bit cautious about confronting drivers as you might get the one who is a complete psycho.
I don't think I've noticed any particular pattern in the demographic. Lets be honest, some people could be pretty diligent drivers most of the time and then a poor driver on any other given day for whatever reason.
I do think bigger modern cars that are quiet and totally cut-off from the outside world probably gives drivers a false sense of comfort (to themselves and others).
To my mind, the general hostile environment created towards cyclists by social media and so on means that even people who probably are right-thinking and largely reasonable in their day to day lives can panic when they see a cyclist in traffic. I've had crazed panicky close passes from people who I am convinced did it because there were like 2 or 3 vehicles behind them and the lead vehicle presumably were convinced *they* were going to get a load of abuse for not immediately blasting past me. I can see the death grip on the steering wheel and a look on their face like they're more scared than me as they do a hail-mary overtake with inches to spare.
don't drive shopping trolley'svaround Lidl like the do cars on roads
some do IME!
I have never had anyone in a super market try to purposely ram me with a trolley, never had anyone purposely close pass me, never had anyone shout abuse at me...I could go on!
I am always a bit cautious about confronting drivers as you might get the one who is a complete psycho.
I tend to try to be unfailingly polite as I can, but I'm inconsistent in who I approach for sure. Young lads in Golf/Astra/A3 etc I go no where near!
I tend to give most folks the benefit of the doubt. I had a great convo with a chap i the CP at Hayfeild yesterday, he was going home after a walk with his family and we just past the time of day as I packed the bike up. As he pulled out of a junction, he cut right across a roadie trying to negotiate the traffic out of the villiage! I'm pretty sure he just wasn't paying attention. I dunno what you do with that sort of behavior
I can see the death grip on the steering wheel and a look on their face like they're more scared than me as they do a hail-mary overtake with inches to spare.
I wonder idly whether part of the issue is that it's an uncommon manoeuvre.
It's not part of the test AFAIK, it's a relatively high-risk move and it's not something most people get a lot of practice of. (For all that we might berate Kevins with an exhaust you could lose a small child up, driving like they stole it does at least give them a degree of experience once they've grown up.)
I regularly see people trying to overtake (say) a tractor, most haven't got a fkn clue. Crawl right up its arse before throwing themselves into oncoming traffic, gunning their underpowered fartbox with a speed delta of 2mph. Then everyone else feels compelled to immediately follow them because it's clearly "safe" to overtake. It's hardly surprising that these James Hunts think that it's fine to pass a cyclist with "well I didn't hit them" degrees of clearance. Going wider would be dangerous!
I genuinely believe that they don't understand how close they're coming to people
There's 3 of us who ride bikes at work, one who rides into work most of the time. We had a lad working here for years who took great pleasure in repeatedly telling us how he ALWAYS passed cyclists as close and fast as he could because in his mind ' u shouldn't be on the f****n roads'. There's just no point trying to educate some people
Observations.
in my experience there is no one demographic more likely to close pass than any other.
I'm just back from Mallorca and some of the overtaking was atrocious.
When I was involved in bike hire/transport round the Scottish Highlands and Islands, I'd regularly have tourists (many from countries where cycling is more common) tell me how considerate our drivers are.
Many cyclists don't help themselves by not being considerate to following vehicles on narrow roads.
in my experience there is no one demographic more likely to close pass than any other.
Total assumption on my part, they are 'people who don't ride themselves' would be the only demographic that's relevant. If people knew what that close pass feels like then they are less likely to do it to others.
I wonder idly whether part of the issue is that it's an uncommon manoeuvre.
One of the the roads I use is pretty popular with both cyclists - tail end of a cycle route from the city centre that goes into a large housing estate. And learners - quiet roads where learners can practice without bothering too many other road users, and TBH, i see some pretty excellent behavior under instruction from them. So I don't think it's a learner issue
Total assumption on my part, they are 'people who don't ride themselves'
Change that to "don't ride on the road themselves" and I'd be closer to agreement. I've had a few inconsiderate passes from vehicles with bikes attached - often between Glentress and Edinburgh.
