[Closed] Now THATS awkward...

depends how you explain it to your kids really doesn't it?

It's only as awkward as you make it.

It happens. It's not a big deal. Kids deal with it a lot better than some adults, as evidenced by the fact that your 13 yr old is just shrugging it off.

art teachers where always alternative.

Best wishes to the chap , and his future persona.

[i]I'm not sure what message this will give to the kids[/i]

Be yourself not who other people want you to be?

I'd say that was a fairly positive message, tbh.

I think the parents will be more 'upset' than the kids, tbh.

I'm not sure what message this will give to the kids

it's a natural world.

genetic mutations are what it's all about.

there is no god.

Fair play, its his choice. But returning to the same secondary school? I can't believe he's going to get an easy ride.

It's hard to disagree with that.

I'm not sure what message this will give to the kids,

that some people struggle with gender identity and chose to change later in life 🙂 from what i understand its an incredibly hard journey to make so 'respect' (as the kidz say nowadays) to mr/mrs smith.

EDIT - and what everyone else above says!

I think the message this will give to the kids is the school is honest and decent.

depends how you explain it to your kids really doesn't it?

Its not a topic i'm any kind of an expert in. I would have thought the school might have put out some info to parents too in advance of this announcement so we could discuss it with teh kids with some background knowledge.

I'll say the same thing as when someone at my work left for a vacation and came back as a woman working in the same dept.

"that takes balls"

An ex's Dad worked at a school in Exeter where the very same thing happened.

Apparently the kids outwardly took it really well and none played up.

mleh as long as shes a good teacher it shouldnt make much difference

40mpg - I think you're making more of this than you need to, really.

The teacher's just going to be dressign a bit different and their voice will change once the hormones start working.

They'll still be teaching the same stuff int he same way.

I wouldn't fret.

Funny I just heard a very similar story last week - you're not in Yorkshire by any chance?

TurnerGuy - Member
I'm not sure what message this will give to the kids
it's a natural world.

genetic mutations are what it's all about.

there is no god.

the kids will be offering up advice about joining the Xmen at this rate!

I think it takes a lot of guts to come back to the same school - with all the best "live and let live" intentions in the world, the kids (and parents) could make this really nasty.

Personally, I think that if you are taking this (undeniably large) step, starting a new job to give you a fresh start would be a relatively simple thing to do.

I'm not saying that anybody should HAVE to do that, but I don't know why somebody wouldn't choose to.

Anyway, good luck to Mrs Smith - anybody this brave demands our respect

Good for him/her.
Most kids will be ok with it.
The odd toerag that isn't can be dealt with individually.

[i]Its not a topic i'm any kind of an expert in.[/i]

So everything else you talk about to your kids you are? Do some reading and perhaps find some stuff that both of you can look at at the same time? Bet there's loads of stuff out there.

She's just moving to the beat of a different drummer is all

The only people that will have a problem with this will be the parents and those adults who feel they should have some sort of say but, in reality, don't.

The kids won't really care that much. Although as anyone who has ever been a schoolchild knows, it's human nature to find *something* about every teacher to characterise them by.

If she was a good teacher last year, she'll be a good teacher next year…

Rachel

So everything else you talk about to your kids you are?

Of course, because I am DAD 😉

Oh - and [b]batfink[/b] - starting a new job at such a stage in transition is likely to be much harder, not easier...

Can't see the problem with it myself, the person will still have the same personality (I'm guessing).

I've seen someone in the same office change from Man to Woman and they were exactly the same person.. except in a dress..

If [s]s[/s]he was a good teacher last year, she'll be a good teacher next year…

FTFY.

What with this and the appalling lack of apostrophe in the title, a sex-change is the last thing a teacher should be worrying about. Teaching's what's needed! 😉

Actually, [b]CFH[/b], I was quite deliberate in my choice of pronouns...

I must say I'm impressed by the faith you guys have in kids. Fair play and all but had this happened in my old school then the poor woman would have been crucified by the kids. We were merciless when it came to teachers although from my own pespective that is probably part of the reason why I did so badly at modern languages and may be more indicative of the general culture in the West of Scotland. Then again if you've made this sort of decision then you are clearly made of sterner stuff than most.

Fair play to him/her.

It's my experience of being a teacher in a real variety of schools that there are some teachers that could say or do anything and get away with it with the kids because of their presence in the classroom. There are also some other poor sods that certain children will find any chink in their armour to pick away at and slowly drag them down to nervous wrecks always off work with stress or turn them into screaming banshees or both. Sharp exit swiftly follows. I'm assuming the new Mrs Smith is of the "get away with anything" breed of teacher or they wouldn't be giving the kids such ammunition.

I feel exactly the same as gonefishin. I guess it depends on the school, but I can't imagine the hell a teacher in my school would have gone through if they had returned from the summer break a different sex. The kids were quite ruthless with the smallest detail concerning what they perceived as a weakness or imperfection in a teacher.

I think convert has it right - if they are a good teacher and the kids like/respect them now, then coming pack with a different gender should be OK.

If the kids are making their life hell now, God help them after the holiday!

My father in law runs a coach company and has a driver who is gender reasigned. (think that's the term)

They do loads of school contract work and despite previously being "Bert" she is now "Carole" kids are fine with it only the odd parent has made a comment about "is it safe it working with kids"!!!

goin g to need thick skin for sure

He does seem to be quite well liked (although thats often the case with more practical classes I guess as there's less pressure / more interest in the subject) so hopefully the kids will be kind.

Just had a (rather late IMO) newsletter from school. It explains that its a medical condition (gender dysphoria) rather than life choice and is genetic. During the 'transition' he must live full time in his destination gender and so from start of next term will be referred to as Miss.

School is supporting him and working within requirements of 2010 Equality Act as transgender is a protected characteristic etc. Any inappropriate comments or behaviour by kids will be treated strongly as discrimination.

They are providing counselling in confidence for the kids, and a parents briefing session. They have had a counsellor in from the Chrysalis Organisation to explain to the kids.

TBH I really sympathise with the teacher as he's obviously lived in the wrong shell for all his life. Can not have been an easy decision to make, and he's obviously not taken th easy option of 'disappearing'. As commented above, I reckon his greatest challenge will be from parents and staff as there are some dickheads around, and at least the pupils can be managed by the school - which it appears they are doing a thorough and effective job of. Good timing too as they have got summer to let is settle in before seeing her in September.

I'm of a mind to write a letter of support as its all too easy for the nay-sayers to drown out any other reaction. And at least now, armed with a little knowledge, I can have a sensible chat about it with my daughter.

Whatever Mr Smith has gone through already to get to this point is probably a lot harder than anything any kid could throw at him.

We had a trans teacher.

She looked a lot more convincing than most of her 'natural' female colleagues

All and all it's a good positive message for someone to be true to themselves.

"is it safe it working with kids"!!!

Aside from the difficulty he will have, I'm not sure what message this will give to the kids, although my 13 yr old just shrugs it off as 'weird'.

I'm of a mind to write a letter of support as its all too easy for the nay-sayers to drown out any other reaction

what a good idea, that should really help him to be a her, it shows support from a parent, and hopefully other parents will follow.

40mpg - did they say in the letter that it's genetic? Seems strange thing to say, there's no evidence for that.

Rachel

Does sound like she was medically of, errm, 'uncertain' gender at some point and parents made a decision she now wishes to reeverse?

Although speculating is pointless.

From newsletter:

Individuals who are transgender have a strong feeling of gender opposite to that ascribed to them at birth and medical evidence suggests that this condition is genetic and occurs in the womb through hormonal changes which then affect the hypothalamus of the brain.

I'm not sure what message this will give to the kids

Perhaps that sometimes the body work doesn't match the engine? There's a huge number of reasons why people feel that they're the wrong gender, some are easier to identify (born intersex and the parents make the wrong call in infancy, chromosomal anomalies) and some can't be identified yet. It's not even that rare, when you take into account some cultures (such as some Indian and Native American communities) have had the concept of more than two genders for centuries.

Hopefully the kids will be encouraged by their parents and teachers to be accepting and will take it in their stride.

op you should call the Jeremy vine show!

Perhaps the kids will surprise everyone? I know of a similar case a few years ago - the kids were fine, the parents less so - tells you quite a lot IMO.

It’s simple, people in this teachers position feel great discord with the gender they have been genetically assigned. I view it as a male being born with female physiology and vice versa (as per Mrs Toast's example).

This presents as an excellent opportunity for your child to recognise diversity and tremendous strength of character.

Any silliness from the children is to be expected to a degree - but I suspect that some of that behaviour will have been transmitted to them by the less enlightened parent.

op you should call the Jeremy vine show!

and occurs in the womb through hormonal changes which then affect the hypothalamus of the brain.

Having said that, there is no generally accepted cause Indeed, many people will rebel quite strongly with the idea of a few cells causing it.

Still, its probably good to make it clearly "medical" as people find that somehow easier to rationalise.

Rachel

Good on the school and good on the teacher. The only way people will accept this more and more is if kids are shown that it's ok if somebody's "different". Some of the adults are beyond rescue I assume.

Sometimes, you come across a pistachio that's hard to open, and you struggle with it, eventually cracking the shell and eating it. And you realise that it wasn't worth the effort anyway as it doesn't taste as nice as the ones that were open and exposed to all the lovely salt.

People are like pistachios.

More of a Brazil man myself.

More of a Brazil man myself.

Had you down as a peanut myself. 😀

(There's another week of random stops by Brizzle Bizzies again I suppose)

Fair play, its his choice. But returning to the same secondary school? I can't believe he's going to get an easy ride.

Still, its probably good to make it clearly "medical" as people find that somehow easier to rationalise.

Be careful with the term "medical", some people might rationalise that as suggesting that it is an illness which can be cured. The term genetic sounds more definitive to me.

They're going about it the right way be being open.

Done in secret, moving schools, the truth -will- out eventually and the kids will be like a dog with a bone.

Up front, hey, this is what it is, goes a long way towards negating the target. Doing it this way, they're presenting being TG as being no different to being, I don't know, French.

The kids will still have some fun with it, of course; but it'll be a lot gentler than if it were all mixed up in playground gossip and scandal.

Bit harsh of the school to be playing the 'discrimination' card though. Kids generally aren't discriminatory, they take the piss out of everybody.

Jeremy Vine would be a bit highbrow and tedious, no?

Highbrow? On Radio 2?

Jeremy Kyle, shirley? Jeremy Vine would be a bit highbrow and tedious, no?

Nah, the vine show represents all that is wrong with the concerned curtain twitchers of middle England. Kyle represents everything that is wrong with a diet of cider and turkey twizzlers and smoking heavily through pregnancy 🙂

To the OP write the letter . In my school 27 years ago we were deprived of an excellent teacher being promoted because the school were concerned the parents would not accept his being gay . My friends very opinionated working-class miner's wife mother expressed it as a " xxxxxxxx disgrace who cares who he sleeps with in his own time as long as my kids get a decent education" .

The PE teacher at my all boys school used to shower with us all after games lessons, which would have been particularly difficult had he ever changed gender. Maybe the school would have needed to build her an adjacent shower block. I wonder.

[i]The PE teacher at my all boys school used to shower with us all after games lessons[/i]

Have you spoken to the police about his behaviour? Can't imagine any circumstance in which a teacher showering with children is 'right'...

His name was Mr Wood. I shit you not. 🙂

40mpg - did they say in the letter that it's genetic? Seems strange thing to say, there's no evidence for that.
Rachel

A similar but probably medically unrelated story (I think):

I used to know a girl who had a sister who obviously had some medical issues but was otherwise bright and intelligent.

She told me that at birth her parents had to make a decision as to what sex their new baby would grow
up to be (As a result the father left and was never seen again) due, I believe, to some physical or medical problem/issue. I don't know the details

That would certainly be genetic though.....

Just saying. 🙂

To the OP write the letter . In my school 27 years ago we were deprived of an excellent teacher being promoted because the school were concerned the parents would not accept his being gay . My friends very opinionated working-class miner's wife mother expressed it as a " xxxxxxxx disgrace who cares who he sleeps with in his own time as long as my kids get a decent education" .

not much has changed, just most of the miners have lost their jobs and pits.

I've not told many people this but, I used to be a male trapped in a female's body.

Thankfully it was all resolved once I was born.

It's only as big an issue as you make it...why should the teacher in question go through all the emotional upheaval of a gender reassignment AND have to settle in to a new job too? After all, the teacher's friends and relatives have to get used to the new arrangement too.

A colleague of mine did this recently and the attitude in the office was surprising. Everyone was very worried about making a massive arse of themselves, but in the end it all went smoothly.

And if I can give my sense of humour free reign for a minute, I hope they choose a better name than my colleague did.

... which was?

And if I can give my sense of humour free reign for a minute, I hope they choose a better name than my colleague did.

Miss Cougar,

It was big news when I was at school that we briefly had a black pupil.
The world has changed hugely and I very much doubt the kids will even notice. Its probably the parents prejudice that will be a problem.

I would have thought the school might have put out some info to parents too in advance of this announcement

I particularly agree with this.

[i]the school might have put out some info to parents too in advance of this announcement[/i]

but then that would have been the announcement?

genetic mutations are what it's all about

I'm not sure telling the kids "your teacher's a mutant" would be very helpful. 🙂

I'm no biologist, but I don't believe gender reassignment (or whatever the correct wording is) involves physically mutating from one thing into another

'Fair play and all but had this happened in my old school then the poor woman would have been crucified by the kids'
Without casting aspersions on your age 😉 the key words here are 'old school'. I teach in a school where several students are openly gay and of the 7 or so gay members of staff (to my knowledge) only one is so far on the closet she probabaly puts Narnia as her country of birth. Times have, thankfully, moved on and people - even da yoof - are much more tolerant
For the pedants - 'on' should read 'in' the closet. I thank you.

had this happened in my old school then the poor woman would have been crucified by the kids.

Clearly, your generation didn't get soundly thrashed NEARLY enough.

Miss Cougar,

Swine. (-:

My friends very opinionated working-class miner's wife mother

Thus neatly illustrating that good teaching has nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation. 😉