[Closed] Now put some bloody clothes on, beardy!!

Does seem a shame though, he's not harming anyone and we're wasting 10s of £k imprisoning him....

Between May 2006 and October 2012 he enjoyed a total of seven days' liberty and spent most of his detention in segregation because he refused to wear clothes.

footflaps - Member

Does seem a shame though, he's not harming anyone and we're wasting 10s of £k imprisoning him....

Law on public nudity does need changing imo.
I'd have no problem if it was legalised.
Can't see it's beyond us to structure legislation in such a way that makes it acceptable whilst protecting the public from harm.

it's a bit nippy out, don't reckon he's offending anyone showing off his shriveled little peanut.

The guy would appear to be mentally ill and probably needs professional help rather than punishment, but in the UK we use prison as a simple solution to deal with mental health issues.

sorry, how is he mentally ill?

because he likes to walk round in the buff?!

sorry, how is he mentally ill?

I would suggest that the fact is is prepared to spend the rest of his life in prison rather than wear a pair of shorts would suggest he isn't quite all there.

Agree with Footflaps, astonishing to think he has spent so long in jail for walking around in the nud. He does seem to be not wired up right or he just wont back down.

I would suggest that the fact is is prepared to spend the rest of his life in prison rather than wear a pair of shorts would suggest he isn't quite all there.

😯

This must be the most apposite thread headline I will read today.

As just got out the shower, and I have beard.

Now...where's me pants?

He should make himself a lycra naked-suit and walk about in that. Would be warmer.

on the legal side, this makes interesting reading:

http://thejusticegap.com/2014/10/naked-rambler-prosecution-law-making-look-ridiculous/

It is not, in itself, unlawful to go naked in public. It is an offence under S.66 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 to expose ones genitals with intent that someone should thereby be caused ‘alarm or distress’ but nobody has ever suggested that Mr Gough had such an intent. It can be an offence to cause a public nuisance and ‘harm the morals of the public or their comfort, or obstruct the public in the enjoyment of their rights’ but as an earlier and more successful nudist, Vincent Bethell, showed in 2001 juries are reluctant to find that merely being naked in the street does anything of the sort.

Prosecutors are too canny to charge Mr Gough with these offences, not least because there are defences to them and they fear that he would be acquitted.

Mr Gough has in the past been charged under S.5 of the Public Order Act 1986, which makes it an offence to use: ‘threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour … within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby … .’

This offence however, is only triable in the Magistrates Court and cannot be punished by a sentence of imprisonment.

So the only way that Mr Gough can be reliably restrained is to tailor him, as it were, a bespoke ASBO. As far as I am aware nobody else is subject to a similar order.

The result is that the only person in the country who actually wants to wander naked around the streets of Winchester is also the only man in the country who commits a crime by doing so.

Now...where's me pants?

wonder if he goes about naked in prison?

He does, hence his solitary confinement.

Footflaps mental illness isn't something that should be trivialised, as above, he isn't breaking the law and doesn't want to wear clothes. why should he?

Between May 2006 and October 2012 he enjoyed a total of seven days' liberty and spent most of his detention in segregation because he refused to wear clothes.

I find this quite sad, clearly the fella enjoys being out in the fresh air, so imprisonment must be doubly difficult for him...

I did note:

...former Royal Marine...

So a 55 year old former Marine, could have served in the Falklands conflict? Hence probably not a great fan of authority?
I'm making massive leaps here by the way... Just wondering is this is a battle of wills between a very stubborn man and exasperated law enforcers... The root cause for his not complying may well lie further back in his past...

The legal system has painted itself into a corner here, its the contempt of court from which there is no escape for him. Agreed it's all a spectacular waste of money.

If he's insistent on being naked, why's he wearing a hat and what appears to be a buff?

("buff," hehe)

So completely uncovering yourself is punished although not illegal whilst completely covering yourself is OK.

There are a few nudists around here (SW France), tolerated so far although one guy on the Basque Coast in the habit of walking naked in both France ans Spain sometimes gets picked up by the police. Cases generally go in favour of the nudists

http://www.sudouest.fr/2013/09/11/le-randonneur-naturiste-relaxe-par-le-tribunal-de-perigueux-1165562-1980.php

Edukator if that's the same guy we used to see here in San Sebastian, ISTR he got into bother with the local police as he was coming with his (also naked ) son, who was a minor. Certainly haven't seen him for a couple of years.

It's bizarre that so many are upset by our natural state.
My cats can't get their head around it

Have you seen the size of his rucksack? Must have a lot of hats and buffs.

I don't think Footflaps is trivialising mental health.

IRC he got into a lot more bother in Scotland than he did in England as the law if different up here.

Can't remember the exact details, but in England unless he was doing something really odd that caused alarm or distress (which he wasn't) he was OK. In Scotland it was more strict and he kept getting lifted by the police.

Essentially, he's trying to take on "the system". The system will win as it's not a cause many people want to take up. Frankly, it's too cold and wet for it to be high up society's list of things to rebel over.

I don't think Footflaps is trivialising mental health.

What by claiming the guy has obvious issues because he is standing up for what he wants to do?

yourguitarhero - Member
It's bizarre that so many are upset by our natural state.
My cats can't get their head around it

You disgust me.

*Calls the police*

*Calls the RSPCA*

Drac - Moderator
What by claiming the guy is has obvious issues because he is standing up for what he wants to do?

Footflaps is suggesting that his high level of resistance to compliance could be caused by underlying psychiatric problems - not that there is anything trivial about the situation, his response or mental health.

He's not saying laugh at the crazy guy with no clothes.

Personally I have no issues with his preference to walk around naked. I would worry if he does this through the winter too though - more about exposure and hypothermia risks.

Haven't read the link but

He does seem to be not wired up right or he just wont back down.

Is it TandemJeremy?

Saying someone clearly has mental health issues because they do something different to others is trivialising it. No one claimed Footflaps was pointing and laughing.

I dont agree with what footflaps said and odd behaviour, even if i dont get why they want to do it, is not necessarily a mental health issue. I am sure this man has been professionally assessed by now so the internet diagnosis is as pointless as it is inaccurate.
I am not sure why we want to criminalise what he does either

I would prefer a compromise with him where he could do it in say certain areas - walks or whatever and tended to not go shopping in the nude.

Failing that leave him to it as I doubt he will compromise.

Footfalls is suggesting that his high level of resistance to compliance could be caused by underlying psychiatric problems - not that there is anything trivial about the situation, his response or mental health.

I'm positive that at some point in the whole process he has been assessed.
Probably many, many times.
Perhaps he's just stubborn, determined and a bit eccentric?
Perhaps he does have mental health issues and is being treated for them?
Millions of people are.

Just because he's prepared to be locked up to defend his beliefs doesn't mean he automatically has issues significant enough to require incarceration or intervention.

EDIT - beaten to it by Junky. Great minds etc....
🙂

Read a good, slightly sad interview with him in Teh Grauniad a couple of years ago:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/mar/23/naked-rambler-prison

Some interesting quotes from the article if it's tl;dr:

"Yeah, of course. I wake up in the morning and think, what the **** am I doing here? But what I'm doing isn't about me. I'm challenging society and it must be challenged because it's wrong."

...

[b]Gough isn't mad[/b]. "They do evaluations all the time." He smiles. "I'm on top of my game mentally. I've got clarity. If I feel down, then I'm straight on the case, trying to work out why."

He emerged from more than two years of segregation with faultless psychological examinations. "If you or I spent two years in segregation," Good says, "we'd probably show signs of trauma. It just shows how focused he's become. He's immune to his surroundings."

I would prefer a compromise with him where he could do it in say certain areas - walks or whatever and tended to not go shopping in the nude.

Wasn't that one of the big issues originally? That he refused to deviate from his planned course near a school when directed to by police? Or am I misremembering?

If I were in charge I'd confine him to a nudest beach with an order to not come within 50 feet of the exit to said beach or he'll be arrested and...er...sent back to the beach.

I haven't given much thought to how he'd get food and the like but he seems more than capable, as an ex marine, to catch his own fish etc.

If I were in charge I'd confine him to a nudest beach with an order to not come within 50 feet of the exit to said beach or he'll be arrested and...er...sent back to the beach.

Why? What possible harm is he doing that merits such draconian punishment?

where he does he put his wallet when popping down the shops? 😯

Why? What possible harm is he doing that merits such draconian punishment?

Hey, it's my imaginary Utopian society! I can do as I wish.

There was a report on France 3 last year on the Hendaye/Irun naturist, Bob, no son so a different guy. He had less hassle from the population on the Spanish side so the report was filmed there.

Wasn't that one of the big issues originally? That he refused to deviate from his planned course near a school when directed to by police? Or am I misremembering?

TBH my kids would find it hilarious if a nude bloke walked past the gate.

Footflaps mental illness isn't something that should be trivialised, as above, he isn't breaking the law and doesn't want to wear clothes. why should he?

I'm not.

To have such an obsession over something so trivial (to everyone else) and to pay such a high price for it (loss of liberty, job, everything basically), is not normal by any means. His behaviour is quite extreme.

As for being assessed, I'm sure he has, but as he isn't a threat to himself or anyone else, he won't get sectioned, hence just fed back into the justice system.

Hey, it's my imaginary Utopian society! I can do as I wish.

Absolutely - but being confined to a beach with no food doesn't sound very utopian to me 😀

but as he isn't a threat to himself or anyone else

Leave him alone.

doesn't sound very utopian to me

It ain't gonna be for those with beards, that's for true.

where he does he put his wallet when popping down the shops?

From the Guardian article:

[i]What he misses most about clothes are pockets ("Somewhere to put my hands")[/i]

is not normal by any means. His behaviour is quite extreme.

As for being assessed, I'm sure he has, but as he isn't a threat to himself or anyone else, he won't get sectioned, hence just fed back into the justice system.

Just stop digging will you
We all know it is odd behaviour and no one will disagree.
He is , despite your diagnosis, quite sane.

I still haven't worked out what's in the 120litre rucksack!

I still haven't worked out what's in the 120litre rucksack!

His clothes!

Perhaps he's just stubborn, determined and a bit eccentric?

Definitely TJ.

To have such an obsession over something so trivial (to everyone else) and to pay such a high price for it (loss of liberty, job, everything basically), is not normal by any means.

Simply not being normal doesn't constitute a mental illness.

footflaps - Member

To have such an obsession over something so trivial (to everyone else) and to pay such a high price for it (loss of liberty, job, everything basically), is not normal by any means. His behaviour is quite extreme.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Rothman ]Benny Rothman. [/url]

[img] [/img]

Yes it is clearly your area of expertise and of course you need to be sectioned or sectionable to be considered mentally ill.

That's not what I said. My point was the only way you can force someone to undergo treatment would be to section them.

As for whether he is or not, we can agree to disagree. I doubt our difference of opinion will bother him whilst he rots away the rest of his life behind bars....

Simply not being normal doesn't constitute a mental illness.

But giving up your liberty indefinitely over the right not to wear boxers, must be close to the boundary.

As for comparing him with the Mass Trespass / suffragettes etc, I'm not aware that many other people actually give a toss about his cause....

I still haven't worked out what's in the 120litre rucksack!

Tent, sleeping bag, means to prepare food, supplies and, yes, clothes.

As he says in the article:

Gough and Roberts reached John O'Groats in February 2006. Once again, he'd finished his journey in the coldest months of the year.

...

The two would sleep fully clothed in their sleeping bags, Roberts says. "When there's snow on the ground, it's hard to get out of your sleeping bag, let alone your clothes, to do a 22-mile walk."

They made some allowances for the weather. "We wore warm hats, thick socks, gloves and walking boots," Roberts says. "We ate lots of carbohydrates and walked fast. The closer we got to the finish, the easier it was to forget the cold and pain."

...
[In Prison] "I put a quilt over my shoulders at night," Gough says. "That's not a contradiction because there are no restrictions on me when I'm alone in my cell. It's in public I'm restricted and go naked as a result. Even with the quilt it gets pretty cold, but exercise helps."

Saying someone clearly has mental health issues because they do something different to others is trivialising it.

Perhaps, but that isn't what footflaps said. He said that paying a huge price for some apparently rather trivial thing is more than a little irrational.

As for comparing him with the Mass Trespass / suffragettes etc, I'm not aware that many other people actually give a toss about his cause....

Not many people gave a toss about the right to roam in 1932 either.

Not many people gave a toss about the right to roam in 1932 either.

They weren't called 'Mass Trespasses' because only one person attended....

About 400.

A lot less than the amount of people who get naked and protest on a regular basis.
And they've been doing it for years - 1914 is the earliest I can find right now.

IIRC he did have a GF who walked naked with him as well for a while, but I think she baulked at the whole 'rest of your life in prison' bit.....

We are British. When we see someone doing something odd, we ignore them.

This business of having him followed everywhere by policemen carrying trousers and demanding that he put them on or face arrest is completely ridiculous, and indeed unpatriotic.

We are British. When we see someone doing something odd, we ignore them.

Sorry, but I am going to have to one minor detail here. When we see someone doing something [i]exceedingly[/i] odd, we may even raise an eyebrow.

He said that paying a huge price for some apparently rather trivial thing is more than a little irrational.

No he didn't. He said the guy had mental health issues. If he had said he was irrational I doubt anyone would have disagreed.

Drac - Moderator
Saying someone clearly has mental health issues because they do something different to others is trivialising it

No. He quite clearly said not because he does differently to others but because he won't conform to societal norms which actually won't damage him in the slightest. In the UK we often have and do section people because they are not behaving in line with the rest of society and we seem to deem them a 'risk'. Footfalls is actually recognising what often happens not what should happen.

Junkyard - lazarus
I am sure this man has been professionally assessed by now

Very likely to be true. However diagnosed from the perspective that is often criticised - the medical model.

so the internet diagnosis is as pointless as it is inaccurate.

Again likely to be true but not trivial.

I am not sure why we want to criminalise what he does either

Agree. What harm does it do.

I would prefer a compromise with him where he could do it in say certain areas - walks or whatever and tended to not go shopping in the nude.
Failing that leave him to it as I doubt he will compromise.

Pretty much.

Hmm, I could have sworn that I posted on this thread earlier. Has my comment been deleted? If so, could a mod tell me why please?

So the only way that Mr Gough can be reliably restrained is to tailor him, as it were, a bespoke ASBO. As far as I am aware nobody else is subject to a similar order.

Thats the peculiar thing about ASBOs. If you undertake an activity that someone deems to be antisocial then the activity doesn't need to illegal for you to be a subject of an asbo prohibiting you from doing it. From that point on the activity is still legal but you doing it breaks the asbo and breaking the terms of an asbo is then illegal. So anyone subject to an asbo effectively has a tailor made law that only they can break.

No. He quite clearly said not because he does differently to others but because he won't conform to societal norms which actually won't damage him in the slightest.

Oh and that means he has mental health issues does it? No, it doesn't the guy wants to carry on walking naked he doesn't care what happens if he does. That far from makes him have mental health issues.

Hmm, I could have sworn that I posted on this thread earlier. Has my comment been deleted? If so, could a mod tell me why please?

Nope, no posts have been deleted from this thread.

I believe I read somewhere that his gf/partner left him because of his absolute obsession with this, and his complete refusal to compromise in anyway which would have allowed a (reasonably) normal family life.
Once such an obsession becomes so all-encompassing surely it shows some sort of mental illness?
It's almost a form of OCD, surely?

I believe I read somewhere that his gf/partner left him because of his absolute obsession with this...

Did [i]ANYONE[/i] read the Guardian interview I posted earlier?? 🙂

Once such an obsession becomes so all-encompassing surely it shows some sort of mental illness?

Or maybe it is just really important to him.

Just because we (society at large) deem it less important doesn't mean he is mentally ill to consider it very important.

you are using OCD in the wy a lay person would

Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by intrusive thoughts that produce uneasiness, apprehension, fear or worry (obsessions), repetitive behaviors aimed at reducing the associated anxiety (compulsions), or a combination of such obsessions and compulsions. Symptoms of the disorder include excessive washing or cleaning, repeated checking, extreme hoarding, preoccupation with sexual, violent or religious thoughts, relationship-related obsessions, aversion to particular numbers and nervous rituals such as opening and closing a door a certain number of times before entering or leaving a room. These symptoms are time-consuming, might result in loss of relationships with others, and often cause severe emotional and financial distress. The acts of those who have OCD may appear paranoid and potentially psychotic. However, people with OCD generally recognize their obsessions and compulsions as irrational and may become further distressed by this realization. Despite the irrational behaviour, OCD is associated with high verbal IQ.[1]

More technically - how we diagnose

The International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) Classification of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (ICD-10 Code F42) The essential feature of this disorder is recurrent obsessional thoughts or compulsive acts. (For brevity, "obsessional" will be used subsequently in place of "obsessive-compulsive" when referring to symptoms.) Obsessional thoughts are ideas, images or impulses that enter the individual's mind again and again in a stereotyped form. They are almost invariably distressing (because they are violent or obscene, or simply because they are perceived as senseless) and the sufferer often tries, unsuccessfully, to resist them. They are, however, recognized as the individual's own thoughts, even though they are involuntary and often repugnant. Compulsive acts or rituals are stereotyped behaviours that are repeated again and again. They are not inherently enjoyable, nor do they result in the completion of inherently useful tasks. The individual often views them as preventing some objectively unlikely event, often involving harm to or caused by himself or herself. Usually, though not invariably, this behaviour is recognized by the individual as pointless or ineffectual and repeated attempts are made to resist it; in very long-standing cases, resistance may be minimal. Autonomic anxiety symptoms are often present, but distressing feelings of internal or psychic tension without obvious autonomic arousal are also common. There is a close relationship between obsessional symptoms, particularly obsessional thoughts, and depression. Individuals with obsessive-compulsive disorder often have depressive symptoms, and patients suffering from recurrent depressive disorder may develop obsessional thoughts during their episodes of depression. In either situation, increases or decreases in the severity of the depressive symptoms are generally accompanied by parallel changes in the severity of the obsessional symptoms.

Obsessive-compulsive disorder is equally common in men and women, and there are often prominent anankastic features in the underlying personality. Onset is usually in childhood or early adult life. The course is variable and more likely to be chronic in the absence of significant depressive symptoms.

Diagnostic Guidelines For a definite diagnosis, obsessional symptoms or compulsive acts, or both, must be present on most days for at least 2 successive weeks and be a source of distress or interference with activities. The obsessional symptoms should have the following characteristics: (a) they must be recognized as the individual's own thoughts or impulses: (b) there must be at least one thought or act that is still resisted unsuccessfully, even though others may be present which the sufferer no longer resists; (c) the thought of carrying out the act must not in itself be pleasurable (simple relief of tension or anxiety is not regarded as pleasure in this sense); (d) the thoughts, images, or impulses must be unpleasantly repetitive.

Includes:

anankastic neurosis
obsessional neurosis
obsessive-compulsive neurosis

So no basically and it does not mean what you thought.

Can we all stop the mental illness diagnosis he is sane and you are only highlighting your ignorance

SOme may describe his as mad or obsessive but he is , clinically, neither.

Actually Drac the extremity to which he is prepared to go suggests that yes, perhaps there is something which causes this beyond mere stubbornness or a need to stand up for his rights to this extent.

I still don't think footflaps was making light of mental illness.

Actually Drac the extremity to which he is prepared to go suggests that yes, perhaps there is something which causes this beyond mere stubbornness or a need to stand up for his rights to this extent.

No, no it doesn't.

No, no it doesn't.

So you wouldn't need an extraordinary motivator to make you willing to go to prison in support of your right to walk around naked...? Most people would.

perhaps there is something which causes this beyond mere stubbornness or a need to stand up for his rights to this extent.

The comfort of being a rebel

The comfort of being a rebel

That must be some comfort! 🙂

Most people would

Does not make any of us actually mental even though a mate may describe you as such.

So you wouldn't need an extraordinary motivator to make you willing to go to prison in support of your right to walk around naked...? Most people would.

Of course you would but that doesn't make you mentally ill.