seriously....
our best mates have a kiddie (357 days old) and i've come to realise just how much stress and effort it is.
i've come round to the idea of remaining (relatively) care-free; not having to worry about going for a ride for 4 hours; taking holidays when I (note capital 'i') want; stasying up till three and waking at 10; having money to spend on what I want, when I want; and not having to worry about anyone other than myself and the GF.
i look at the GF and her folks. they're still feeding her money to get her through uni. she's 27.
i'm sure that if i were to have kids i'd not regret it (after, ohhhh, 18 years when i legally no longer need pay for them).
anyone here want to admit that they'd be happy not having kids (not saying you need admit to wishing them not be there) or alternatively, anyone wish they did have kids?
i've also thought that i/we could adopt when in a position to offer someone a good quality of life - and when the adoptee is over the shitting, crying, pissing themself stage....
No plans to have kids ever and thankfully my wife feels the same. I'm sure other people find it enjoyable but i can't see one single redeeming factor about having kids. 😆
I was a reticent parent but now can't imagine life without my daughter. Easily the best thing in my life.
It is only stress and effort because you don't want it yourself. For the majority of parents it simply isn't stress and effort because for every 'stressful' event there is a more than equal 'wonderful' event.
Pretty difficult to make someone see that if they have no desire to be a parent though, but don't for a minute believe that *most* parents find the whole thing difficult.
I thought that not having kids was one of the greenest things you can do as well. So you can buy that V8 gasguzzler with the secure knowledge that you're doing less environmental damage than the folks taking the kids to school in their Toyota Prius...
Alpin - the bigger question is what does your GF want?
I didn't [b]want[/b] kids but my wife did, so we made two. I instantly loved them and think they're the best thing I ever did. But there's no need to feel bad if you don't want any, there are plenty of people already.
maybe not difficult. but certainly stressful, non?
matey keeps telling me that his life now has some meaning to it, but then in the next sentence moans about how he wishes he was single without any dependents.
i looked aftet the little 'un over the weekend and was knackered after just two hours. i turned round to feed him some banana and in the split second i was looking he fell head first off the sofa onto the wooden floor. que screaming, tears and disapproving looks from his parents....
No kids hear and I am 48. No regrets either. I am too selfish - I want to do what I want when I want.
Adoption without childcare experience is tricky and you tend to get "damaged" children only.
Jesus, Alpin; you ARE me.
TJ - bit of a moot point really. If they were from a stable, happy family then they probably wouldn't need adopting.
How old are you alpin out of interest?
My wife and I always wanted kids.... but always "later".
When we got to 34 we both started getting more and more broody (not helped by all our friends sprogging). Now she is 25 weeks pregnant and we're both very excited 🙂
Ohh, and I am 42 and my daughters are 7 months old. When I was 30 I didn't want children and didn't really like being around them at all. When I was 35 I didn't want children but had grown to love all the kids around me (brother, friends etc). By the time I was 40 I really wanted them.
So what I am saying is don't believe you will always feel this way - it is human nature to want to want to pass on your genes.
My guess is Alpin is <25yo 😀
We took the decision not to have kids and have never regretted it - just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary and still going strong. Nearly all our friends over the years have had kids. Whichever way you choose, you will look back and hopefully realise you made the correct decision for you - but with "you" definitely being plural
#
woody2000 - MemberAlpin - the bigger question is what does your GF want?
Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post
she says that she doesn't take me seriously - whether she means over the baby thing or in general i don't know. i used to think it'd be great having a kiddie. frisbee in the park, bike rides, etc etc....
but looking at our friends - they've no real time for themselves, always looked f*cked and they're only students! they've got one lesson a week and they admit it's hard work.
god knows how one copes when you've got a proper job to do....
then there is the whole school thing; choosing a school, getting up in time to take them to school, tantrums, homework, detentions, drugs, aids, etc etc....
27. at 24/25 i thought it'd be great.
i also wouldn't want to be an older dad. my old man was 36 when i was born and as such he's now on his last legs whilst i'm (sort of) in my prime. i didn't see him or do much with him whilst growing up and he regrets it, as do i.
jimmy - MemberJesus, Alpin; you ARE me.
[x-files] der der do do der der do do der der do do.....[/x-files]
maybe not difficult. but certainly stressful, non?
I don't think so, not really (and that is with twins). Life is very different than what it was before they came along but no more stressful.
What MF said ^. As you get older you and your life chnges whether you want it to or not.
Didn't have our first daughter until I was 37, then followed up with 2 more 18 months later. They're now 9 and 7 and I can't imagine life without them - it's what we're ultimately here for 🙂
i also wouldn't want to be an older dad. my old man was 36 when i was born and as such he's now on his last legs whilst i'm (sort of) in my prime
ha ha, we had my youngest when I was 33, and I can still outride him now he's 23 (except on downhills) :o)
thepurist - MemberI thought that not having kids was one of the greenest things you can do as well. So you can buy that V8 gasguzzler with the secure knowledge that you're doing less environmental damage than the folks taking the kids to school in their Toyota Prius...
i fully agree.
ha ha, we had my youngest when I was 33, and I can still outride him now he's 23 (except on downhills) :o)
Posted 1 minute ago # Report-Post
my old man's lungs are ****ed. he can't walk more than 100 yrds without a breather...
I was 38 when my daughter was born and I reckon she keeps me young.
I was 38 when my daughter was born and I reckon she keeps me young.
they've no real time for themselves, always looked f*cked and they're only students!
They're probably trying to be 'students' as well was parents which may not work. No-one said it was going to be easy.
Personally I think that having kids too early can be a mistake for some poeple as they see their peers going out on the p**s, doing whatever they liked whenever they liked - and then start resenting the [slight] restriction that kids impose.
I only know one couple who didn't have kids and they have a great time but are loaded and spend a lot of time abroad - so not a good example.
Overall I think we've done a lot of stuff and met a lot of people who've become good friends all through having kids.
i also wouldn't want to be an older dad. my old man was 36 when i was born and as such he's now on his last legs whilst i'm (sort of) in my prime. i didn't see him or do much with him whilst growing up and he regrets it, as do i.
That is more to do with the father, not the age. Not sure what the average age for parenthood is now, but I know from the people we have met at NCT ante natal classes that every one (in our case) had children when they were aged 30 or over. The youngest mother is 31, youngest father 32. Admittedly I was the eldest at 41 when ours were born - but the point is that people are having children later and later in life and in today's society being 36 and a new father is hardly odd. Hell, he will only retire when you are (were?) 29.
what m-f and sharkbait said. It depends on where you want to focus your energies.
Oh, and Alpin, some people aren't really cut out for kids- from your posts on here you might be one of them- for somebody leading a pretty carefree existence you already seem one of the most stressed out people on here 😀
Its very high on 'our agenda' right now, by which I mean the clock is ticking. I'd be happy leaving it another 5 years time and seeing then how I feel. The gf doesn't have this luxury. I love having time to myself, taking off for a weekend at a moment's notice, spending a few days on the road doing whatever. I also get really stressed whenever i visit people with kids. as soon as things don't go my way or they get too noisy or whatever, I need to leave. I don't like the thought of not having that luxury. Call it selfish, its what I like. getting out biking and climbing keeps me sane and happy. if I have to sit around all weekend waiting for a sprog to wake up and be fed I'm going to be irritable and moody, to say the least.
The only reason I find myself relenting on this is in the hope that it IS different when they're your own and it WILL be rewarding and fun.
Anyway, it's one of life's un-answerables (word?) - whatever you decide, you'll never know what your life would have been like had you made the other choice.
IT...TURNS...YOUR...LIFE...UPSIDE...DOWN!!!
My wife and I had disposable income, several holidays a year, nights out, lie-ins and were care-free...oh and of course bike rides. The summer of 2008 was spent mostly in hospital with our oldest whilst my wife was heavily pregnant with number 2. Looking back I wonder how we coped, but, what can I do? I love them to pieces. Do I really miss spending £50/60 between us on a night out when we can stay in with hot chocolate and slippers??
All said and done though, I have known I wanted kids since before I was old enough to know how to make them (25 :lol:). For me, there was no question and I wonder if those who think about it too much perhaps simply don't want them. Nothing wrong with that.
if I have to sit around all weekend waiting for a sprog to wake up
Believe me - that won't happen 😉
The thing with kids is its very difficult to like other peoples. I was the same as Alpin, had them for the same reasons as Pervfbarnes, and I love my two more than the world.
Its simultaneously the hardest and most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life, but I still mostly dislike other peoples kids.
YMMV
i also wouldn't want to be an older dad. my old man was 36 when i was born and as such he's now on his last legs whilst i'm (sort of) in my prime. i didn't see him or do much with him whilst growing up and he regrets it, as do i.
Why didn't you see much of him? Are you expecting to your kids to want you to go clubbing with them and their mates 😕
I'm struggling to think what age has to do with the stuff you do with your kids.
un-answerables (word?)
yup.
They're probably trying to be 'students' as well was parents which may not work.
the rest of us aren't exactly living it up.... you obviously haven't visited Coburg....
I knew from an early age i didnt want kids, and had a vascectomy as soon as they let me. Best thing I ever did.
People will tell you its not a hassle but then moan if anone makes noise in the afternoon cos their kid has just gone to sleep and theyre knackered from hours of crying. Plus theyre so stressed they need special priviledges at work or in carparks
sharkbait - MemberMaybe he didn't want to do much with you? Are you expecting to your kids to want you to go clubbing with them and their mates
I'm struggling to think what age has to do with the stuff you do with your kids.
he worked too much so that mum didn't have to and so that we could have holidays and a nice house. it meant he'd be gone for 12-14 hours a day, saturdays were for him (golf) and he just wanted a quiet day on sunday.
People will tell you its not a hassle but then moan if anone makes noise in the afternoon cos their kid has just gone to sleep and theyre knackered from hours of crying. Plus theyre so stressed they need special priviledges at work or in carparks
[i][b]People [/b][/i]or just the stereotype of parents you have in your head?
Plus theyre so stressed they need special priviledges at work
that ****s me off....
so that we could have holidays and a nice house
epic FAIL 🙁
he worked too much so that mum didn't have to and so that we could have holidays and a nice house. it meant he'd be gone for 12-14 hours a day, saturdays were for him (golf) and he just wanted a quiet day on sunday.
And that was because he was 36? Or because it was what he is like as a person? It does sound like this could be where your dislike of children comes from - 'daddy didn't give enough attention' (to quote Pearl Jam).
Plus theyre so stressed they need special priviledges at work
Are they stressed and need privileges or just need [b]flexibility [/b]from their employers so they can work and have a family life?
People will tell you its not a hassle but then moan if anone makes noise in the afternoon cos their kid has just gone to sleep and theyre knackered from hours of crying. Plus theyre so stressed they need special priviledges at work or in carparks
I reckon you've made that up in order to fit your own opinion
People will tell you its not a hassle
You have clearly never spoken to any of the parents I know and certainly not me. It very much is a hassle...and a bind...and infuriating...and stressful. Still love 'em though, and nothing can beat those cliched special moments you have with them
People will tell you its not a hassle but then moan if anone makes noise in the afternoon cos their kid has just gone to sleep and theyre knackered from hours of crying.
You're talking about a period of time that is the equivalent of a heatbeat in timescale of parenthood. Although it does work this way sometimes, it doesn't last long.
Oh, and having kids does involve hassle 🙂
he worked too much so that mum didn't have to and so that we could have holidays and a nice house. it meant he'd be gone for 12-14 hours a day, saturdays were for him (golf) and he just wanted a quiet day on sunday.
And not having kids changes the work ethic? ......... and the golf was his choice, much like riding is your choice.
I didn't want kids. My wife didn't want kids - when I met her (she was 17). At 30 she "decided" she did want them. I don't think it was a concious decision, just a maternal instinct that kicked in. I suppose people call it becoming broody.
I still was totally against it, caused all sorts of problems, with her actaully leaving me for a year or so.
Well, she came back, we had a son and he is wonderful.
When people say they can't imagine life without their kids, I think that is just "the right thing to say". Obviously I wouldn't wish my son gone now, but of course I can imagine life without him. Without the responsibilities that parenthood brings. I certainly would get more time mountain biking than I do now!!
I say, if you don't want them, don't have them, but be prepared for the female instincts!
simonfbarnes - Premier Memberso that we could have holidays and a nice house
epic FAIL
i think he'd agree, simon.
yeah. he's got/had a strong work ethic. but that was all he knew till he met mum and made us.
oh, i had a happy childhood. his brother (my uncle) was like a second dad to me. he retired at 54 and has enough time and money to do what ever he likes....
I'm quite happy not having kids. It would be nice, but the amount that I would need to sacrifice for it is just too much for me. My freedom is too important. That may be selfish, but in a lot of ways not having kids is also UNselfish - if oil is running out and global warming is happening then the life on this world's going to be worse for the next generation than for us. Let's slim down the population rather than just mindlessly knocking more and more people out and letting the global population balloon and there not be enough land for anyone.
Also, probably irrationally, but people with kids do annoy me. As someone else mentioned the fact they always seem to get time off to go and pick them up. I was trying to get people to play for the sports team I'm running yesterday - most couldn't play for "kids" reasons. One of them had to go and pick their kids up. I remember walking home from things when I was a kid. What happened to the team that YOU joined? why bother joining it if you aren't going to bother playing...?
When people say they can't imagine life without their kids, I think that is just "the right thing to say".
I assume you meant to say 'in my case it was the right thing to say'?
currently 18 voices and only 3 are relevant to the OP.
oh make that 4. Didnt want any, dont want any, the endless gushings of the self centred (15 voices so far) only serve to reinforce my thoughts.
if oil is running out and global warming is happening then the life on this world's going to be worse for the next generation than for us.
Ohh, here we go. If that is your view then you should ask for assisted suicide and stop being a drain on the earth's dwindling resources - after all what purpose do you have on the planet if you are not going to scatter your seed?
EDIT: It is like sitting in your car running the engine when you don't actually need to go anywhere...
When people say they can't imagine life without their kids, I think that is just "the right thing to say".
Errr......not me. You already stated you never wanted children so I don't think you're in a good position to make statements about how other people regard their lives since becoming parents.
Edit: actually I can imagine my life without my girls..... empty and unfulfilled.
currently 18 voices and only 3 are relevant to the OP.
Have you considered that is because the overwhelming majority of people have a desire to have children and those not wanting them are the minority?
We're all self centred. We're just self centred about different things.
This thread wasn't after all, titled 'Persuade me I will like kids'.
You don't like the 15 voices that said something you don't like, fair enough. Since he asked about peoples thoughts on kids in general, I'd suggest you get with the comprehension of written English.
currently 18 voices and only 3 are relevant to the OP.
What would be the point in asking an opinion if the OP only wants answers that agree with him?
I'm quite happy not having kids...That may be selfish
I've never really got the whole [i]"not having kids is selfish"[/i] thing. Selfish to who exactly? Surely you can only be selfish if you put yourself before others, not if you put yourself before theoretical people that don't exist yet?
As you rightly point out, the human race really doesn't need a bigger population, so in many ways actually having kids is a selfish act* (cf "The Selfish Gene").
(*Note: this [u]does not[/u] exclude the possibility of it being a wonderful experience or it requiring huge acts of selflessness when bringing up the kids)
currently 18 voices and only 3 are relevant to the OP.
Eh? All of us who have kids now didn't have them once upon a time, maybe even going through the same process as Alpin. Surely that makes our comments relevant to this post. Do we all need vetting before replying to posts on here? Some of us have work we'd rather not be doing and this is our relief.
If that is your view then you should ask for assisted suicide and stop being a drain on the earth's dwindling resources
Hehehe 🙂
after all what purpose do you have on the planet if you are not going to scatter your seed?
being happy....?
oh, and you can scatter your seed without producing children as my keyboard will attest.
note to self.... must clean keyboard and buy kleenex.
I always said I wanted "1 at most, preferably less", MrsV always said she wanted 2 and had a rough target of starting in her early 30s.
At 29 and 50 weeks her biological alarm went off like an atom bomb... There was a sketch at the time on a show called Spoons where a lass, when asked an innocuous question about what she wanted, would reply "I WANT A F'ING BABY", well that was MrsV to a T...
Needless to say, before we hit 31, there was the patter of tiny feet.
In my experience it's true to say that;
- You lose freedom
- You lose independence
- It's hard work
- It's stressful
- It's expensive
- At times it's unrewarding
However it's also true to say that;
- When it is rewarding it's the most rewarding thing you've ever known.
- Seeing her grow and learn and develop is, at times, astonishing.
- She appears to be accepting bike-related brainwashing from her dad so we can gang up on her mum.
- I have excuses for why I'm playing with Lego.
- MrsV now concedes that she's happy to stick with 1.
OK, some of my positives are a bit flippant, but there's no way on earth that I'd go back if I could. Also, she's 3.5 now and I'd say that most of the negatives only applied to the 1st 18months.
For us one of the hardest bits has been the fact that we don't live near our relatives so it's not very easy to "palm her off" on them when we feel we need a break.
The whole "I can't imagine life without them" thing is bollocks, I can easily imagine having more cash and the freedom to go on lads holidays whenever I wanted BUT I don't want that now.
To be honest Alpin, a lot of what you're saying sounds a little like myself when I realised the Mrs was serious 😉
Well we've got 4 kids - 3 are biologically ours & one is adopted
We have also fostered 26 other kids over the years
They have [b]never[/b] prevented either my wife of me doing things that we wanted to do - it just sometimes needs planning
If I could turn back the clocks - I'd do it all again
uplink - Premier MemberWell we've got 4 kids - 3 are biologically ours & one is adopted
We have also fostered 26 other kids over the years
doffs cap. very admirable thing to do IMO.
after all what purpose do you have on the planet if you are not going to scatter your seed?
being happy....?
You didn't get the point I was making did you?
We have also fostered 26 other kids over the years
😯 **** me!
New found respect for uplink!
the endless gushings of the self centred (15 voices so far) only serve to reinforce my thoughts.
hmmm, although I thorougly enjoyed bringing up my kids, I wouldn't characterise it as self indulgence. If you're happy to be alive then you must be glad your parents bothered making you, I suppose. I think there are too many people on the planet now, but of course not wanting to reproduce is a hyper-recessive characteristic...
mastiles_fanylion - MemberWhen people say they can't imagine life without their kids, I think that is just "the right thing to say".
I assume you meant to say 'in my case it was the right thing to say'?
Maybe. But you honestly can't [i]imagine[/i] life without kids? Not much imagination then (or even [i]memory[/i]!) 🙂
(edit. and no, not "in my case", because I wouldn't say it)
Kids aren't right for everyone BUT sometimes things don't turn out the way you had planned. Would strongly advise keeping an open mind about it.
I didn't think I could have any but got the shock of my life when I discovered I was pregnant. Wasn't happy at all and found it difficult to adjust at first. However, I had a little bundle to take care off, stepped up to the mark and threw myself into being a full-time mum. Had a second one less than two years later.
I honestly believe that having children has made me what I am today. A huge learning curve.
Edit: fast forward to the 21st century and feel that dependancy on the bank of mum and dad has been created. Parents have some tough decisions to make and for that reason, I can understand people not wanting any.
**** me!New found respect for uplink!
please no - that has been over the last 27 years & some were very short term - & I may have over-estimated
My wife says it's only 24
mastiles_fanylion - MemberYou didn't get the point I was making did you?
yeah. completely. i've seen Attenborough's Life on Earth. although there are lots of sepcies where members of the society forgo reproduction in order to help collect food, make nests and look after the youngsters.
maybe i, too, am a mole rat?
Proud dad of three, yeah its hardwork but very rewarding.
But you honestly can't imagine life without kids
Literally? Yes. Emotionally? No.
Can I have a 'proud mum' moment? Seeing my son graduate with a 'proper' degree 8)
yeah. completely. i've seen Attenborough's Life on Earth. although there are lots of sepcies where members of the society forgo reproduction in order to help collect food, make nests and look after the youngsters.
Perhaps you are - that model doesn't apply to humans - there is no need for worker people in human society as the parental figures supply for the offspring. So your worker human role is redundant and unnecessary.
might as well top myself now then....
where's dem pills?
No kids here and highly unlikely I'll ever be a father.
a) no girlfriend
b) far too much responsibility for my liking
c) I get woken up by next doors baby screraming it's head off
d) My brother has six of them.
Kev
might as well top myself now then....
If you want to save the planet it would be the right thing to do 😉
MF - what about the bit in 'Life On Earth' where a population stabilises at the level that its environment can sustain, rather than using individuals to bring extra resources to them from other places so they can keep breeding. Or doesn't that apply to humans as well?
The OP asked whether people wanted to admit to being happy not having kids. I knew from really young that I didn't want kids, but was quite open to the notion that as I got older (i.e. when women get broody and the hormonal stuff kicks in) that I might change my mind. As it happens I never did - and yes I am totally happy living with my partner of nearly 20 years without kids. This may sound a bit flippant (and it's not intended that way) but Alpin - I really wouldn't worry about it too much .. there are plenty of other things to be thinking about as you get older. 😀 If you decide you want kids then great, if you don't that's also fine.
This may sound a bit flippant (and it's not intended that way) but Alpin - I really wouldn't worry about it too much .. you are still young and there's plenty of other stuff to be thinking about as you grow up. If you decide you want kids then great, if you don't that's also fine.
10/10
I have the greatest respect for a couple of former work colleagues who said that as much as they love their kids to bits, if they had to go back and live their life again, they'd choose not to have children.
MF - what about the bit in 'Life On Earth' where a population stabilises at the level that its environment can sustain
Sadly humans are cunning enough that we'll continue to devise more and more ways to find sustenance from the environment - at the cost of every other living thing. We'll only stop when there is literally nothing left - like mould eating a bit of bread till there is no bread left. 😕
But we'll let ou kids worry about that eh? 😀
Al I can say is you do come out the other side and REALLY enjoy it! 49 now three grown up kids who are good friends, pitty they don't like going downhill as fast as me!
Interesting topic (as it alwas seems to get some people a wee bit het up!). I don't have kids, and have never wanted them. And to counter what seems to be the accepted view of 'women and their biological clock', I'm female and now 42. I'm perfectly happy for my friends who have had children when they wanted them, and sad for those who want children but can't have them. There are a few things that do annoy me though:
- the repeated comments all through my late 20's and early 30's of 'you'll change your mind when you get older and want children' (despite me being quite clear in my views of definately not wanting them!) - erm why is wanting children deemed the most likely or acceptable option?
- parents who have an expectation that relatives will be on hand for free baby-sitting, and then feel resentment about you 'not helping' when you don't want to look after their children. In my view, if you decide you want to have children it it is your responsibility - if others wish to offer to help then that is great, but don't expect others who have not choosen to have children to look after yours.
And I don't consider either those with children or those without children to be selfish, it is just a metter of choice.
I'm not really swayed either way, dont really want children, but if it happened it wouldn't be the end of the world...
I do enjoy my freedom and its the thought of giving all that up thats stops me...but the only thing I think about is that when I am older or old, I wont have any children or grand children around me.....and I think that could be a bit lonely...