MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Right I do NOT want this to be a debate about whether faith schools should be allowed in this day and age - all I want is real experiences. Anyone wanting to restart that debate can **** off and start their own thread! 😉
We are about to "choose" a secondary school for LittleMissMC. Her brother is doing fine at the local academy, but it has a variety of issues, principally around behaviour, and his sister and I went to look at the next door Catholic secondary last week after she asked to go and see it.
Academically, it gets slightly better grades, it has a reputation as being a much more closely knit family community environment, with fewer disciplinary issues. It's about half the size of the academy pupil wise. The down side it has smaller, less modern facilities than the academy, though increased numbers mean it is now expanding and modernising.
The Catholic faith is very much to the fore, though they cover the usual broad range of religions in RE, but with a focus on RC.
It will almost certainly be over-subscribed, and it was made clear that being not baptised a Catholic and in fact not baptised at all, would put her down the priority list when applications are looked at, so the chances of her getting in there aren't great.
Fwiw both kids have gone through a strongly CofE primary school, and Guide and Scout groups linked to churches, without being brainwashed or abused.
Just wanting experiences of how non-Catholic pupils have found the religious aspect of Catholic schools to work in practice - we know of a few people who have kids there but not well enough to actually ask them about.
12 pages, and I have to ban Woppit.
(-:
FWIW I went to catholic primary and secondary and when it came to the secondary bit, I don't think anyone really cared, it was "just school".
The RE side was pushed, but in reality, it was a doss lesson and the teachers were fighting a losing battle. If you're worried about brainwashing; I wouldn't.
I'm sure there were non-catholic kids and church-going kids and just nominally catholic kids, I don't remember it ever being a problem.
This was the 90's though.
*grabs [s]popcorn[/s] wine and rice paper snacks
Honestly, I can tell you that the primary interest of most Catholic schools in England and Wales on the ground is inclusivity. There won't be any brainwashing or coercion, and your child will be absolutely welcomed into the school.
I mean, there will be an expectation that you all accept the Catholic ethos and culture of the place, but no expectation that you become Catholic yourself.
There are 4 Catholic high schools near me, and they are all made up of a variety of pupils.
I went to a RC secondary whilst notionally a Catholic.
Its going to be very school/senior staff dependant.
First three years or so the RC bit wasnt really noticable. I think 2-3 religious services a year and that was that. The senior staff approach was really if you acted as they thought a Christian should(eg had some morality and ethics) they werent overly fussed about whether you did the actual turning up to church side of things.
Last couple of years under a new head teacher was a lot more preachy and went downhill. It wasnt helped by the fact the school had been rather small and got some good grades. Instead of keeping it that size the new head teacher overexpanded and it started creaking.
Out of my year at school the only really religious person was someone who converted to be a Jehovahs witness.
is that not code for "don't waste your time" ?It will almost certainly be over-subscribed, and it was made clear that being not baptised a Catholic and in fact not baptised at all, would put her down the priority list when applications are looked at,
You'll only be above non-baptised kids from out of catchment, so if the school is oversubscribed (easily checked, just ask them) then I really wouldn't bother.
Right I do NOT want this to be a debate about whether faith schools should be allowed in this day and age - all I want is real experiences.
Then you shouldnt ask such questions in this forum should you.
Neither of my children have been Christened and they both went to local primaries and secondaries without it ever being raised. They are 21 and 19 now.
Only difference I recall was religion as a taught subject at mine. So you had religion lessons [can't recall the sort of weighting it was given in the timetable] and everyone had to take religious education GCSE. This could potentially be awful, but I recall most of the RE teachers being pretty good, and one doss subject at that level is no big deal.
Not answering the question (naturally), but my son's (non-Catholic) school has RE has a GSE subject - they teach all aspects of religion, and it seems well balanced. My son is a definite atheist, but seems to get on well at the subject. Do Catholic schools teach RE in the same way? Or is there only 1 religion to them?
There were Muslim and Hindu and lots of non-Catholic kids at my son's Catholic school. Any child had the right to miss any event like the end of school mass but none did, everything was kept deliberately neutral and happy-clappy in the bland, banal and inoffensive way we have come to expect from Christian religion nowadays.
[b]Wife went to RC school.[/b]
By and large when we talk about our School Days, my standard issue secondary school education was more bizarre than hers. I think the only real difference was they had to do GCSE in RE and I dropped it at the first opportunity. Even though she was in a rougher part of town then me, her school was a lot less chaotic than mine.
[b]Mates kids go to a Faith School (Church in Wales).[/b]
My mate in work's eldest is the same age as mine, they both started High School this month, my Son goes to a huge school, 6 classes per year I think. It's a good school and always over-subscribed. Mate's son goes to the smaller but even more over-subscribed school. He's a school Governor too so visits a lot of High Schools, one thing that sticks in my mind is that one reason he gave for wanting that school was the fact that the other schools have lots of pastoral care posters, "if you think you might be trans, gay etc you can talk to someone" he thought that only put ideas in their head, I think normalising normal things is good.
That's really the only difference I could see between my schooling and my wife's - it's not a massive thing and subtle, but faith schools seem to think that any lifestyle that isn't part of the nuclear family as a problem, and problem are often ignored or swept under the carpet. I'm prone to over reaction though.
faith schools seem to think that any lifestyle that isn't part of the nuclear family as a problem, and problem are often ignored or swept under the carpet. I'm prone to over reaction though.
Can't agree there, I'm afraid. In the faith schools of Cardiff, I know that there is a deliberately inclusive approach to language and behaviour in favour of those who do not represent the 'nuclear family'. There may not be posters on the wall, but there is clear and definite care and support proffered to any and all who could find themselves marginalised.
Mrs Dubs teaches in an RC Girls school.
Probably the only thing your daughter will notice is RE featuring in the curriculum and having to mumble along at liturgies as she won't know the words all the RCs have been learning since birth...
Can't agree there, I'm afraid. In the faith schools of Cardiff, I know that there is a deliberately inclusive approach to language and behaviour in favour of those who do not represent the 'nuclear family'. There may not be posters on the wall, but there is clear and definite care and support proffered to any and all who could find themselves marginalised.
Glad to hear it, in particular I'm talking about Whitchurch and Cardiff High with the Pastoral posters and Bishop being poster free.
I went to a Catholic school.
You know that the Catholic religion is all about guilt, right?
Is that what you want your child to be taught? That she's inherently flawed?
APF
My niece and nephew go to Catholic school, "fortunately" they were christened / baptised because of "Catholic" Italian father. The RE bit gets hmphed and groaned at but it's just school as far as they're concerned and they get on with it.
You know that the Catholic religion is all about guilt, right?
Is that what you want your child to be taught? That she's inherently flawed?
Yep. That's what it's all about. Every word of it. And that's all they bang on about in class to. I don't know why anyone would ever want to go to one.
Round our way most of the CoE schools are 'Requires Improvement' on the Ofsted reports.
All the RC schools are 'Outstanding'.
They must be doing something right.
Round our way the Catholic school is in special measures. The CoE school next door is outstanding.
There are good schools and bad schools. Not sure that the particular flavour makes much difference.
Speaking from my experience as a left-footer, If you want to make sure your offspring end up completely contemptuous of organised religion then give them a Catholic education
Unless you tell them your kids aren't baptised, how would they know?
Would not telling them this improve their chances of getting into the school they and you are aiming for?
Genuine naive non-believer / atheist question...
Unless you tell them your kids aren't baptised, how would they know?
Parish Baptism records. You have to tell them where you go to church, and where/when the kids were Baptised. Unless you're telling them you're not RC.
Unless you tell them your kids aren't baptised, how would they know?
They just know.
Do you look haunted by guilt and remorse? Even though you're not sure quite why? No? Then your names not down, you're not coming in
Speaking from my experience as a left-footer,
That clearly means something different in Ramsbottom than it did when I was at school.
Speaking from my experience as a left-footer, If you want to make sure your offspring end up completely contemptuous of organised religion then give them a Catholic education
Seconded.
Speaking from my experience as a left-footer, If you want to make sure your offspring end up completely contemptuous of organised religion then give them a Catholic education
Jeez. What happened to you all?!?
Actually, don't answer that. I'll ask on another thread once the current crop of religion threads have died out.
My OH has just started a new job as an RE teacher in a Catholic school. She's an atheist. It has raised a few eyebrows, but they knew when they employed her. AFAIK only the head and the head of RE has to be a Catholic. However, Lynn's struggling with it already. She just can't bring herself to teach religion as fact. I suspect she won't last very long there ....
[b]Jeez.[/b] What happened to you all?!?
Don't take the name of our Lord in vain!!!!
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She just can't bring herself to teach religion as fact
What does that even mean?!?
Unless she is teaching primary school children, in which case I can't imagine why a non-practitioner would want to work in any faith environment, seeing as the language of faith is so much a part of the child's time.
But beyond primary, RE is pretty much just a survey of religion as a sociological reality.
Unless you tell them your kids aren't baptised, how would they know?
You are asked to produce the baptism certificate if you have one.
Thanks for the replies - sounds like it won't interfere with/put her off the rest of the curriculum!
It's much more than that at Newman Catholic High School, Carlisle, I can assure you.
"It will almost certainly be over-subscribed, and it was made clear that being not baptised a Catholic and in fact not baptised at all, would put her down the priority list when applications are looked at,
is that not code for "don't waste your time" ?
I wasn't going to comment due to the very precise nature of your op. but Crankbrat attends our local heavily tied c of e school , normal advise to middle class parents is to fake religion go to the church and perjure yourself to get a faith reference from the vicar.
Due to being obvious atheists we didn't and were open about our lack of belief on the admission forms, he got in no problem he and we had to sign a contract to respect the ethos of the school but nothing to adopt or even play lip service to the belief system.
The tied Beaver Colony is proving a more off-putting prospect. Team Points for religious observance could be an issue.
Here are some of the things I was told at Catholic primary school in the 60s:
A: Sleep on your back with your hands together in prayer so you are in the right position to go to heaven if the angels decide to take you away.
This may have had something to do with:
B: Don't fiddle with your willy, it is sacred and was given to you by God to make babies. I never could understand how something so smelly could be holy. Nor could I understand how I would get it inside a lady's front bottom because I had seen my sister's in the bath and it didn't look easy; I thought it would be like trying to push a marshmallow into a piggy bank. I am grateful to the head at my prep school who, the day before we left to go on to senior school, instead of double French gave us The Facts of Life in which he explained the mechanics, and suddenly I understood why it was always stiff in the mornings and at random times during the day. It was a moment of enlightenment for me, a massive relief.
Also:
C: Make the sign of the cross every time there's a lightning flash because it means another soul has gone to heaven.
....and so on with various other weird rules, conventions and restrictions related to the Catholic lifestyle. I actually think Islam isn't too different, the poor sods.
Round our way most of the CoE schools are 'Requires Improvement' on the Ofsted reports.All the RC schools are 'Outstanding'.
They must be doing something right.
Keeping the poor kids out I expect.
Sorry OP!!!
The tied Beaver Colony is proving a more off-putting prospect
I have the strangest...
I am grateful to the head at my prep school who, the day before we left to go on to senior school, instead of double French gave us The Facts of Life in which he explained the mechanics,
One of my exes went to a Catholic high school, it had actual nuns wandering around and everything. Her entire sex education was "don't do it it, but if you do do it then don't use a condom as that offends god." This was in the 80s, during the height of the AIDS "don't die of ignorance" campaign. 😯
Keeping the poor kids out I expect.
Of course, this could be true, but it is unfortunate that you would assume so.
The Catholic schools of my acquaintance are deliberate about seeking out the underprivileged.
The Catholic schools of my acquaintance are deliberate about seeking out the underprivileged.
Maybe thats because they cant find enough underpreivileged Catholics?
Religious primary schools overall were more likely to have a wealthier student population, with over one in four (27 per cent) having significantly fewer disadvantaged pupils than other nearby schools, compared with 17 per cent of non-faith primaries.The difference was especially pronounced in Roman Catholic schools
Go for a visit and then decide what's best for you and your daughter if spaces are available. Is she already baptised and do you have to attend a church or anything like that? I'm a stubborn arse and wouldn't send my kids to any school that required them to be baptised, christened etc. regardless of its rating. I'd just see it as hypocritical and wrong. Like nonreligious folk who attend church just to get married there. Just seems a bit bizarre.
The choice to follow any faith would be an important decision for my kids to make when they are old enough to do so IMO.
Funkmasterp - our view entirely. We've been for a look and I was actually impressed - no obvious graffiti like there is at my son's school next door, that kind of thing, so I was just after general experience while I track down some parents at this specific school.
If she and we agree this is the better school we'd apply for it unless the religious aspect overshadowed the academic side.
I'm a stubborn arse and wouldn't send my kids to any school that required them to be baptised, christened etc. regardless of its rating. I'd just see it as hypocritical and wrong.
Could be wrong, but I don't think they are allowed to require faith for attendance, only prioiritise by it. If I was an atheist, I'd be cheating out of spite 😉
MCTD, my daughter goes to a Catholic Primary. Mum is catholic, I'm not a fan. She is only 6 so it's tough to determine if it's Mum or the school influencing her, but she's a bit too much for me. However, she's interested in science, so when she asked me if God was going to flood the world again, I can provide an alternative answer and gradually she will choose for herself what she believes. The school is wonderful so I can live with that.
Having put 2 through a Catholic school I wouldn't recommend it. The pastoral care wasn't there when we really needed it. Threatening the vulnerable with expulsion after a suicide attempt is not Christian. Not worth the steam off my warm urine.
@RichPenny: I don't think you have to worry about your little one being taught that the flood was literal in a Catholic school any more than she will be taught to engage with poetry.
@Sandwich: do you mind me asking where this school was? Any school may have a 'fitness to study' policy, based on the fact that a young person's illness may be too much for an institution to handle, but that would NOT normally be based on a single suocide attempt. The pastoral system should be in place to help - especially in a Catholic school.
My wife went to an TV school sixth form and she's CofE. It was he best school in the area and was fine. But RE was compulsory and she got into trouble a few times arguing in he RE class about issues such as condoms and abortions. But other than that it was pretty normal.
Daughter goes to a high performing RC girls school (Wife and sprigs all baptised Catholic.) and actually it seems fairly low key. Certainly she doesn’t mention it. They draw pupils from all over Birmingham and so do not select just middle class children.
Went to see a coeducational RC local school for my sons the other day. We were in an RE classroom when he was asked if he liked RE. He said “No, I don’t believe in God”. They laughed and said that was ok - and actually seemed sincere about that.
So, it doesn’t trouble me at all.
A colleague's daughters both went to the local RC high school. Colleague and wife are atheists, kids not baptised etc. He said they were slightly apprehensive about the religious teachings element, but in the end a) if the kids ended up being religious then so what? and b) they had confidence in themselves as parents that they'd raised the girls to be appropriately skeptical/inquiring that they'd be able to make their own minds up and not be brainwashed (not that they thought any brainwashing was going to occur, but neither of them had had a Catholic education and so had no experience of the practicalities).
Both girls now at uni, neither has any interest in religion.
Any school may have a 'fitness to study' policy, based on the fact that a young person's illness may be too much for an institution to handle
Not when it contravenes DDA (and mental illness is covered by DDA). My child had a medically advised requirement for a timeout from studying while counselling and further treatment were undertaken. We were told this would not be allowed. No double all was forgiven at Friday confession but I will not forgive nor forget.
Both my boys are at a Catholic Primary - despite neither of us being religious (me very much anti-religious) and not having brought them up with any leanings towards any form of Christianity.
They are both doing well - great school... they talk about Jesus a bit, but don't seem overly fussed beyond that. It has given them an interesting interpretation of death which has been really useful over the past few years and made some of the difficult situations a lot easier to deal with as a result.
Here they aren't over subscribed - and I think a lot of parents shy away because it is Catholic (CofE is much more familiar I guess), which made it easier to get them in. The school has a fantastic record which is why we sent them!
I don't think you have to worry about your little one being taught that the flood was literal in a Catholic school any more than she will be taught to engage with poetry.
Dude, she asked me the ****ing question! She's 6, I don't think she's engaging with the biblical flood as analogy.
Having put 2 through a Catholic school I wouldn't recommend it. The pastoral care wasn't there when we really needed it. Threatening the vulnerable with expulsion after a suicide attempt is not Christian. Not worth the steam off my warm urine.
I have to say sandwich, that is properly shit. It’s inhumane at the very least. Arseholes.
My daughter just started year 7 at an all girls Catholic school. I'm a to the bone atheist. It wasn't our first choice school but it was a lot better that what we could have got allocated. I've just told her to cross her fingers behind her back in assembly and RE lessons etc.
I'm more concerned with the quality of the education and behaviour of the pupils. She knows God is a load of bollox so I'm.not worried about her being indoctrinated.
My wife is of Cypriot heritage and against all my protests she got our eldest christened when we were in Cyprus 8 years ago. It turns out that's what got us a place as it was over subscribed. So effectively my daughter is Greek Orthodox. Which apparently is one of their special categories on the application list. Plus there can't be many other Greek Orthodox kids in Liverpool...
I've just told her to cross her fingers behind her back in assembly and RE lessons etc.
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I went to Catholic school in Liverpool. I honestly don't get what the fuss is about. Sure, we had RE classes, they were mostly garbage i ignored, but so were most of the other lessons. I didn't have any of the weird stuff some of you seem to have had though.
Cougar - Moderator
12 pages, and I have to ban Woppit.
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Not religious but both my girls go to the local Church of England Faith school, also 50% allocated to church goers and then the rest by the usual factors. We only got in by appeal first time due to oversubscription, and had to wrestle (briefly) with becoming church goers to jump the queue. Instead my appeal actually included that i thought it was more 'christian' to tell the truth and that people who lied about their church status to get in were bearing false witness and therefore couldn't be proper christians. My wife talked me out of that bit..... I went for the honesty is a virtue line.
Anyway - now in religion is clearly part of the school life but no-one is forced to participate, including kids from other faiths who can choose to sit out of prayers and hymns if desired (but rarely do according to my daughters, which is actually a nice thought about tolerance)
As to teaching - RE has become one of her favourite subjects too. She likes a good argument does my girl and she gets a good one with her teacher, arguing about truth vs allegory and what does it really mean and why it's important, so it has become RE-cum-philosophy rather than 'The Bible as Fact'
Go for it would be my advice and let your daughter find her own path. If she decides she wants a faith as a result, let her.
I've just told her to cross her fingers behind her back in assembly and RE lessons etc.
Cancel out one irrational belief with another then?
That’s good teaching. Not confusing at all.
She knows God is a load of bollox so I'm.not worried about her being indoctrinated.
Even more irony.
Even more irony.
indeed.