Why do women spend so much time making themselves look good, only then to complain about being seen as a sex object? Surely thats the idea isn't it?
Discuss
It's a nice sunny afternoon, so I've got a couple of decent bottles of Chablis in the cooler. Anyone?
*Pulls up a comfy chair and waits for the bannings*
never
ever
happy.
whats the right answer to "does my bum look big in this"?
yes and you get slapped, no and your a liar!
Women being irrational shocker. 🙂
G
Does this include females who have inappropriate midriffs? Fat mingers who think they're gorgeous you know the ones 😉
It depends, Everyone like to look "good" that's not limited to women. Now if you interpret that as being a "sex object" which is, lets be honest a pretty derogatory term, then that's your issue not the girl's...
Does my bum look big in this?...
Honesty's the best policy. Now, that doesn't mean you'll give the "right" answer, but if she's asking, then she pretty much deserves to hear the truth.
men being Obtuse shocker 🙂
Double post shocker !
Wake up and smell the coffee nickc. Don't know where you live, but wander around any town centre on a Friday/Saturday you may find that you clearly identify the occasional sex object wandering about.
G
G
Is this not the 'dirty old man' posts from a few days ago?
What are you doing hanging around in town centres on a Saturday night for?! 😆
Does this include females who have inappropriate midriffs? Fat mingers who think they're gorgeous you know the ones
Muffintops?
Zokes - muffin tops indeed.
Join MAIM NOW!
(Men Against Inappropriate Midriffs)
G, most of those girls tend to want paying before they talk to you...
whats the right answer to "does my bum look big in this"?yes and you get slapped, no and your a liar!
The answer is "Your bum looks very sexy/lovely/fabulous in that"
Why? Because it does. Just tell the truth.
🙂
whats the right answer to "does my bum look big in this"?
"Can you move back a bit, I can't quite fit it all in without moving my head from side to side."
Sorry Nickc theres none of that type of woman in my neck of the woods....... I live in Ipswich 😯
Regarding wanting paying, whats the difference between the nice meal/wining/dining scenario, and paying for a prostitute? Personally I reckon ones much more honest than the other from both male and female viewpoints, but thats another story.
Back to the original point. Surely getting the glam on is about finding a mate, thus sex, thus portraying oneself as a sex object. So thats the point surely?
Regarding my personal contribution, apparently farting, picking your nose and scratching your nuts doesn't work........
The important thing that you're missing here, even if you assume that dressing up nice is done entirely to pull men* it may not be done to pull you (or the sort of man who hangs around making comments about sex to random women in public which is presumably what this is about).
Joe
*There's obviously more to dressing up than that - there's surely a social thing amongst women too about dressing up with their friends, saying ooh, you look lovely etc. and a lot of people just enjoy wearing nice clothes, sometimes it isn't all about you you know!
even if you assume that dressing up nice is done entirely to pull men* it may not be done to pull you (or the sort of man who hangs around making comments about sex to random women in public which is presumably what this is about).
To a certain extent I agree with that joe. However, it is something that has always troubled me. The dressing to impress thing is just that, it is a very visual display, but then when men are attracted either in a polite and pleasant way, or even in a laddish prat way, the cry goes up that the response is sexist, perving or whatever. Seems a bit wayward to me.
Bear in mind I'm rather older than most STW'ers and my blonde and dare I say rather attractive daughter might well be one of those that is attracting the attention. Its then me thats going "whoa young lady, do you know what you are doing going out dressed like that?"
PS: Before the obvious .... NO!
OK, I’ll bite. 😉
When women spend ages trying to look good, it is very, [i]very[/i] rarely for the benefit of men. They do it because that’s what’s expected of them, and that’s a fact that’s drilled into them from a very early age, and because you get pretty much crucified if you don’t.
Look at fairy tales – all the princesses are good and beautiful, all of the witches and step-sisters are ugly. Look at girl’s toys – makeup sets, hairdressing sets, fashion dolls like the Bratz. You’re pretty much taught from before primary school that make-up, fashion, and looking good is just a normal part of being female – absolutely nothing to with being a sex object. Even when you become an adult, it’s not about pleasing men, but about keeping up with other women. Men can be harsh about women’s appearances, but other women are [i]brutal[/i].
As for the clothes themselves, a lot of women just go by what the magazines and shops say is ‘on-trend’. They wear miniskirts because Kate Moss has designed some for Topshop. They wear tight low slung jeans because that’s what Cosmopolitan says looks good with bright knits. It doesn’t matter if it suits (or even fits) them, they just want to be in fashion.
It’s kind of depressing that wanting to look presentable is seen as the same as [i]asking[/i] to be seen as ‘a sex object’ and inviting comment, and that women are still so judged on their appearance, by both men (“Would?”) and women (“OMG celebrity cellulite special!”)
and my blonde and dare I say rather attractive daughter might well be one of those that is attracting the attention
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I say.....yes, could you please put me through to the rather attracitve daughter......
dey fakkin lav it guvnor!
Thanks Mrs Toast, Great reply....... so you mean all those scantily clad young frippets on a Friday night are not actually trying to get me into bed!! 😯
Bugger!!! Double Bugger!!!
Now then the problem with that is that honest men have two categories of women, those we've slept with, and those we've yet to get around to. Dishonest men apparently have a third, which is "those we're trying to bed by pretending that we don't have the first two categories".
Now then the problem with that is that there is I sense a fundamental mismatch of understanding of where people are coming from. So surely life would be considerably simpler if everyone simply said what they meant as opposed to pussyfooting about with PC'ness?
Capn.... read my lips!
PS: Before the obvious .... NO!
[i]The answer is "Your bum looks very sexy/lovely/fabulous in that"
Why? Because it does. Just tell the truth.[/i]
you've clearly never been to Oldham...
When women spend ages trying to look good, it is very, very rarely for the benefit of men
There's one woman in our office & 5 men
When we have the field engineers [all men] coming in she suddenly turns up dressed 'differently' now this could well be to impress other women in the building but not from where I'm sitting it isn't
Long may it continue to be so too 😀
Now then the problem with that is that honest men have two categories of women, those we've slept with, and those we've yet to get around to. Dishonest men apparently have a third, which is "those we're trying to bed by pretending that we don't have the first two categories"
So all men want to (or already have) slept with their mother/sisters/daughters/Hazel Blears? And there are no gays? You're obviously from an odd part of town....:P
I think G is from the "I'm bored and I'm trolling" part of town... 🙂
Trolls need feeding too! For just five minutes a day, you can make sure that they don't go hungry!
G, who said what I had in mind was going to be [i][b]obvious[/b][/i]?
😈
And he's an Ipswich troll too. Back under Stoke Bridge G!
Its a lie I was never there and I didn't touch her.......
Troll? Bored ? Yeah to the latter, maybe to the former.
But I'm sticking with the point. I think Mrs T. is putting a rather girly tint on the truth, as uplink has pointed out. As indeed some blokes will put a PC one on my two types theory. However, basically in essence its true, there are notable exceptions perhaps, but in general true. So surely as we all know that deep down, isn't it more realistic and honest to cough to it, and then have proper grown up conversations and social norms that accomodate the reality, rather than the frankly stupid denial of the truth that we have now?
I'm going home now, but in closing and in answer to Mrs Toasts :-
So all men want to (or already have) slept with their mother/sisters/daughters/Hazel Blears? And there are no gays? You're obviously from an odd part of town....:P
Like I said the rest I haven't got round to yet, and when I've been through all the preferable options that are before those ones, then I probably will. However, as even at my prodgious bonk rate, I can't really see me seeing off several billion women before I pop my clogs, I'm pretty sure that my old mum can rest safe in her grave tonight.
Sorry with G on this one, most blokes (in their head at least) would given half a chance bed as many women as they could. Things that general hold us back are:
1. wife / GF / significant other being emotional hurt by said beding.
2. similar but more down to earth, the financial impact of 1.
3. the fact that most women don't seem top want to sleep with every bloke.
4. even if they did, most of us blokes would fit into the Hazel Blears category and that's probably where most women would draw the line (if you follow).
5. many blokes (me included) would cack ourselves if an attractive women atually showed some interest.
Interesting points made by Mrs Toast, hadn't thought about the upbringing aspect. All my 5 year old daughter wants to do is dress up as fairies, ballet dancers and princess', she'd play with makeup given half a chance and her mother's not the sort to always have some slap on. Makes sense that alot of dressing up is an extension of childhood play.
whats the right answer to "does my bum look big in this"?
and the most likely to get slapped response is:
No, but it'd look better out of it - boom boom.
Distance from our hall to the car = 15'
Time taken to get into car by me = 10 seconds max - includes locking front door.
Time taken when wifey is with me = probably 10mins.. that doesn't include locking the front door.
I took the mirror out the hall when we last decorated and it has made no difference whatsoever.
A man without a woman is like a fish without a bicycle
If women dress to please other women, does that mean women like looking at other women's breasts a lot? I only ask because men (with certain exceptions) tend not to dress in really skimpy clothes so that other blokes can get a glimpse of their naughty bits 🙂
If women dress to please other women, does that mean women like looking at other women's breasts a lot? I only ask because men (with certain exceptions) tend not to dress in really skimpy clothes so that other blokes can get a glimpse of their naughty bits
Why do I suddenly feel dirty? 😯
Why do I suddenly feel dirty?
In my experience Tanky, that question would have more reasonance if it were rephrased a tad along the lines "Why do I not feel dirty?". In fact I was just about to use you as the prefect example of my two types of women theory. Thus proving beyond doubt that I am at the very least partially right...... and now you've spoiled it! 😥
Anyway, re Stumpyjon and IanMunro. Thanks guys... honest blokes, see girls there is such a thing. Now then one small point of order stumpy.. What stops us is in fact fear plain and simple. Fear of being caught. Remove that fear and WAAAAA HEY here we go here we go here we go !!
And that Children is why women are both very visually attractive to us menfolks, but also have an enormous scary gene count.
5. many blokes (me included) would cack ourselves if an attractive women atually showed some interest.
Really? I was delighted when the exceptionally lovely new sales rep I worked with once said yes when I asked her out. We were together for three years. She's still beautiful, and possibly my best friend still, after twenty odd years. But maybe I was just lucky.
Men are attracted to women.......shocker!
G, what do you mean?!!! Right that it, give me 20 mins to get my lippy on, my fishnets and heels and find my snorkel parka and I'll be with you.... 😯
What I was trying to say through a haze of alcohol fumes that it would only be noteworty if you didn't feel dirty. Knowing you as I do, feeling dirty is the norm surely?
Anyway, semantics apart, I accept your offer, sounds like an approrpiate assignation for Stoke Bridge to me!
So in a nutshell then G. All men are looking at women as potential sex all the time, even if they're not?
Well, if we're being honest, I don't. Sorry if that upsets your clearly lovingly nurtured but clearly bollards theory, but they you go. Women are just people, you know? I'm not afraid of them, or of talking to them, or whatever, I can look at them as people not as sex objects. That's not so say there's a grain of truth behind your assertions, I'll glance a look at a nice pair if they're "in my face" like the next man, but my first, second or third thought is not "I want to F&*k that girl..."
But it's OK, I think I probably fall into one your categories up there somewhere according to you, the one about "trying to sleep with women by pretending we're not" or some such other guff, so don't worry.
Feel sorry for you really... 😉
Women dress up and worry about how they look because from the day they are born their parents fuss over them telling them how beautiful they are. I've never done that with my daughter, she gets other praise.
How she looks isn't important to me and hopefully will be of minimal importance to her, mum agrees..
Nickc, I’m sure you are a great bloke an all, but if you don’t mind me saying so you do seem a tad uptight. Chill out buddy, I don’t need your sorrow. If you reread your post, I think you will find deep down there much as you hate to admit it you are agreeing with me.
So what is it that irks you about that? The notion that despite all protestations you are more dishonest than I, given that I openly embrace my male fallability or is it the concept that you might actually agree with me. C’mon come out of the closet.
sq225917 – Much as it might surprise you ditto. I have never treated either of my kids in any way other than that which you describe. However, I now have a 24 year old daughter who dresses very well, and looks, even if I say so myself, absolutely stunning. My concern and it is a genuine one, is that she does not understand what is going on when she is out and about. Personally, I’m acutely aware of the looks and the stares when we are out together. My Grrrrrrr response is legend actually. In fact in some ways it would worry me more if she did, given that she has an excellent young man in tow whom she adores. In essence that is really my point. The fact is that blokes do see women at first instance as a potential partner. They calculate the possibilities, and either pass up or proceed dependant on the variables that need considering. That being the case, surely it makes more sense and is safer for all concerned to be honest about that.
The fact is that blokes do see women at first instance as a potential partner.
Funny, I thought the defintion of "fact" was something that could be proved. 🙂
You do realise that your "all men are dripping sacks of man fat and testosterone" viewpoint is not widely accepted, except by Social Darwinists and militant feminists? 😉
Is that a fact?
G, I think TBH chap, I'm considerable more chilled that you. 😀
[i]My Grrrrrrr response is legend actually[/i]
Case in point? I don't have a "Grrrrr response"
I agree to the point that men look at women and that women look at men, but as for the notion that blokes [i]only[/i] look at women in terms of sex? Nah, sorry don't go for it...
Is that a fact?
Yes, my mates down the pub all agree with me. 🙂
Chastened 😯 Fair enough then.
nickc: Do you have a daughter? I reckon Grrrr is very relaxed and chilled in the circumstances.
Yep I do.
She's 8, maybe as she gets older my views will change, who knows?
Mine did, and I have had this conversation openly with my daughter. She wouldn't have any of it, then discussed it with boyfriend who rather red faced agreed with me.
[i]I agree to the point that men look at women and that women look at men, but as for the notion that blokes only look at women in terms of sex? Nah, sorry don't go for it...[/i]
Out of interest, what are the reasons that you think men do look at women?
I'll glance a look at a nice pair if they're "in my face" like the next man, but my first, second or third thought is not "I want to F&*k that girl..."
Like I said really, deep down he's agreeing with me, but hes struggling with his G-Spot at the moment so don't hastle him.
Incidentally, nick I never said it was conscious or overt, I am however suggesting that it is pretty much an automatic and instinctive thing.
If you're making out that the urge to reproduce is "automatic" and "instinctive", how do you explain people who never have a relationship or get married? Or gay people? Do they go through their days in a twisted hell of self-denial, or do they just get on with their lives? 🙂
All weirdos.... 😉
I'm happily not married to the mother of my children. We've been together for more than 20 years, we spend most days together, as we work together. In all of those years I've never once been even tempted to "be" with another woman. My assertion that men look at women still holds, I can admire a good looking woman in the same way I can admire art or a beautiful landscape, but sex? Nope, not interested. It's nice, I've got no pressure, I'm not trying to impress any-one, I've not got an agenda, hidden or otherwise.
It's not instinctive, it's learned.
In denial .....
A quote from RoadBikeReview;
"Women have the uncanny ability to appreciate beauty without needing to **** it."
A quote from Hormones and Behaviour Journal;
"Men spent more time, and had a higher probability of, looking at female faces. NC Women had more first looks towards, spent more time, and had a higher probability of, looking at genitals."
Stop it... 😀
IanMunro -
The study may 'say' genitals but what they were looking at could perhaps be labelled a 'complete d!ck' 😆
Muffintops?
I have also heard this called a gunt, a gut that runs down to a c.... you get my drift...........