[Closed] PSA: New towing rules - sept 2021

Essentially it means we can now all tow up to 3.5t gtw

Edit sorry, rtft.

I think my license allows me to drive a tank or a steam roller. I have no intention of doing so though.

Would guess taco rules will still be the same, if they are hauliing to use an alternative to HGV licenses and so on then they will still fall under the commercial rules for tacho's.

Will be interesting to see if anyone jumps on this with the current crisis in haulage, there's always someone out to make the money first.

Huh. Well that's not terrifying. Handy for me I suppose but still going to be a lot of folk out there going straight in the deep end.

Will be interesting to see if anyone jumps on this with the current crisis in haulage, there’s always someone out to make the money first.

I have an 8x4 double axle trailer and a van I can use if anyone needs anything shifting.

Foolish change, this is stupid. It's great that it removes the rather complicated rules regarding trailer and car combinations where a less safe combination is permitted (saloon and caravan) whilst a safer combination (heavier 4x4 and the same caravan) would require a towing test.

But now all utilities will be able to put their drivers in a 3.5t van with a 3.5t plant trailer without ever being taught how to hitch up correctly or be able to reverse it. Currently you can only be let loose with a 750kg trailer behind a 3.5t van.

A much more useful (and safer) change should be to up the 3.5t vehicle limit to something like 5 tons seeing as loads of vans are overweight and will get heavier with electric vans entering the market.

@agree, it’s the 100k from base rule I’m thinking of.

Essentially everyone now has the right to use a trailer, wherever/ whenever, therefore it reads that effectively the distance taco rule is redundant. How can they police it?

A much more useful (and safer) change should be to up the 3.5t vehicle limit to something like 5 tons seeing as loads of vans are overweight and will get heavier with electric vans entering the market.

This +1.

PS My wife is now pissed as she paid a fortune last year to take her towing test 😭

I expect the NC500 next summer will be hilarious.

My mate had taken hit towing test twice and failed twice after buying a monster of a caravan.

He will be able to drive it about with no problems after this.

It just doesn't seem a great idea!

Great news for some (if a little late for me). In the past I've had to buy smaller/lighter vehicles to keep under the total MAM of vehicle + Trailer of 3500kg before, whereas the vehicle I wanted would have been more stable/safer but bust the weight by 27kg (yep...). The previous rules for people passing their test after 1997 were a complete nonsense.

I read that whole page and nowhere does it mention what date the change takes places.

It mentions "autumn 2021" and "later in 2021" but no specific date.

but no specific date

But it does mention that the date hasn't been confirmed yet and gives you the option to sign up for email alerts

But now all utilities will be able to put their drivers in a 3.5t van with a 3.5t plant trailer without ever being taught how to hitch up correctly or be able to reverse it.

Might be wrong, but I don’t think our safety director is going to buy that idea. And if he does the CEO will be having a word.

Just because we can doesn’t mean we should.

My wife has a post 1997 license, and we were looking at a trailer test for her so she could tow our caravan with the Merc. Same caravan that she towed with the Passat, heavier towing car, not allowed - that was daft.

How long before we get class C and minibus again?

Makes sense in some ways. Is this a benefit of having blue passports? Surely it's not a knee jerk to the HGV driver issues, politics just isn't that quick to react.

Can't see it making that much of a difference, you can already tow a 'small' caravan badly. Where it might have an effect on leisure users is small trailer sailer yachts. The market for ~18ft boats seemed to collapse a few years ago as they're too big to tow under the old rules, but not expensive enough to be worth paying marina fees over. Things like Swift18, Gem 550, Hunter 19 etc were/are selling for less than the trailers probably cost.

Will be a big benefit to smaller companies (builders, landscapers etc) where it wasn't worth taking the test but would have been reaching the point where only the boss could drive the transit with mini digger on a trailer.

Who's campaigned for it though? None of those user groups seem big enough. Was it the police just pointing out that it was mostly unenforceable without stopping every car+trailer?

Huh, I passed my test post-97 and always thought I couldn't tow a trailer at all!
Turns out I could (up to 750kg) and can now tow something massive! I don't think I will though, I'm scared of trailers.

The current laws prevented us from buying a caravan (much to her delight) as I passed in 97 and she refused to tow.

posted too soon in error. The current laws prevented us from buying a caravan (much to by wife's delight) as I passed in 97 and she refuses to tow one. Just spent the last hour looking at Swift Basecamp

Huh, I passed my test post-97 and always thought I couldn’t tow a trailer at all!
Turns out I could (up to 750kg) and can now tow something massive! I don’t think I will though, I’m scared of trailers.

See, this is the problem with the current rules. They're very confusing. You can tow more than 750kg, but the MAM (Maximum Allowable Mass) of the vehicle + trailer needs to be <3.5T,
The key bit is MAM (sometimes GW) as it assumes the trailer and car etc. are at their maximum capacity even if not. So things like horse boxes/cargo trailers are out as they're usually stamped up quite high even if you're not planning on towing them with anything in. Caravans are tricky too, but possible, before I sold it I was just under the limit with an old 4 berth and 4wd petrol CRV, the only way I could have got a bigger (or newer/heavier) caravan was to get a smaller car... I also think you can't tow anything with a greater MAM than the towing vehicle on a post '97 licence (which you really wouldn't want to anyway)

@stainypants, you can tow a Basecamp with a car anyway,just not a bigger vehicle. That's why swift make them (& can charge a premium price). As long as the GTW is below 3.5t you're fine.

I did the test over a decade ago, so I could tow my racecar with a van. That's long gone now, replaced with a caravan 😕

IMO, this is a big regression, being able to tow an 8 foot wide, 2 ton caravan or horsebox (you can't even tie the payload down in a horsebox) with no experience or training is only going to increase insurance premiums for the rest of us.

On the plus side, it'll be entertaining watching them reversing 😂

Thanks, @ceept unfortunately we'd be towing with a T5 Caravelle it weighs 3t alone.

Ah, sensible sized tow vehicles are now allowed @stainypants you need something smaller 🤣🤣

I don't want to think about campsite costs with a campervan & caravan together though, would they charge for both? 😲

I did my B+E test a few years ago to tow our new caravan.
I'd already been towing a few years and was legal (under 3500kg combined)

The training and test was 100% worth it. Learnt a lot about safety and the physics of towing a big weight.

I've never had a snaking caravan or what not but I've seen some terrible towing on the roads and near misses.

Bad Idea I think.

So in theory from September we can drive 3.5t vehicles with 3.5t trailers? Or I have missed the point

Even though theoretically allowed there's no way I do it with some training but at least there's no test to do now. @ceept the Caravelle is just huge people carrier not a camper (though you can and I have slept in it).

This will benefit two groups: caravanners and people who drive plant trailers and the like around on a standard car license. There was a big uproar from the Caravan Club when the effects of the 750kg limit became clear as their numbers of new, young members dropped significantly. My guess is that they are somewhat behind this change. It'll make sod-all difference to the HGV shortage.

My mate had taken hit towing test twice and failed twice after buying a monster of a caravan.

He will be able to drive it about with no problems after this.

It just doesn’t seem a great idea!

I see so many badly loaded caravans and trailers on the road that this will only make it worse. Allowing people to take up to 7t out on the open road with no idea about how to balance the load and make it stable will lead to more accidents that tend to be big due to the physics involved.

The training and test was 100% worth it. Learnt a lot about safety and the physics of towing a big weight.

They should make a 1 day safety course compulsory for this reason alone, similar to the bike CBT. Not expensive, a few hours long and enough to stop you making big errors. Lots of people who tow don't know anything about lower speed limits, that they can't use the 'fast lane' on motorways and nothing about weight distribution and ball heights. Next time you're out driving take a look at all the trailers and caravans that don't sit level and squash the towing vehicle's rear into the road.

How long before we get class C and minibus again?

You won't get Class C, that's now rigid HGV's. The equivalent is now C1, up to 7.5t. If they bring that part back then that little detail alone will cause issues!

Apparently they need all the trainers and their facilities to train more HGV drivers. This is the reasoning being put about for this change.

They should make a 1 day safety course compulsory for this reason alone, similar to the bike CBT. Not expensive, a few hours long and enough to stop you making big errors.

Totally agree with this tbf. I'm pretty experienced with towing, understand the speed limits and restrictions, but many don't. And you're never too old to learn/refresh.

It should be one rule for all, regardless of when you passed your test. At least this makes it fair?

The point is that the testing facilities will be able to concentrate on getting more HGV tests done rather than buggering about with Mr and Mrs Goggins and their caravan.

Also, I have had grandfather towing rights since I passed my test back in the 80s. The carnage I've caused by running out and hitching an enormous plant trailer to a luton truck.............

Never seen the reason why they brought the test in the first place other than to make money. I've seen more dangerous loaded cars and vans than I have ever seen trailers.

Though I've got used to many on here having kittens over the slightest thing.

Where I work they will still make people have assessments and training before they allow people to tow as you can't fart without some sort of training.

Never seen the reason why they brought the test in the first place other than to make money. I’ve seen more dangerous loaded cars and vans than I have ever seen trailers.

Though I’ve got used to many on here having kittens over the slightest thing.

Aye, badly loaded trailers and caravans are harmless.

Roaster.

Did I ever say they weren't?

If that's a roaster you may want to try a lot harder.

If the test was brought in to deal exclusively with those issues - (poorly loaded trailers, etc), then why not apply to all drivers? Not just those who were unfortunate enough to pass their test post '97? I'm guessing the process of passing a driving test back then was no more scrupulous, thorough or intense than it was post '97?
(genuine question by the way - not meant to sound facetious)

If the test was brought in to deal exclusively with those issues – (poorly loaded trailers, etc), then why not apply to all drivers? Not

Have your ever seen a boomer go full gammon ?

Seriously though You have to draw a line some where

This move is a regression. The number of occasional towing older drivers assumed on a pre 97 you see at the tip with no scooby on how to reverse their badly and over loaded trailers at the tip is silly..... Now it'll just be a free for all - and that's the safe part of the regression badly loaded trailers wagging the dog used to be common place....but most folk towing are at least aware of limits. Now it'll be if it fits she ships

On the plus side my 8*4 twin axle ifor just went up in value.

I have yes unfortunately. And whilst I agree that it is a bit regressive, I just don't buy into the whole, "you need to draw a line somewhere". Absolutely you do, but the line should be, "you want to tow a big trailer - brilliant. Come do some training, prove your ability in a test environment and go tow all you like".

It's absolute tosh that by a lottery of your birth date you're allowed to tow or not. Ridiculous non sensincal concept.

Yes but on the other side..... Many of them have been towing their costly caravans quite happily and legally for years ... They ain't going to give that up without a fight so concentrate on the bulk who have never been able to do it and it'll sort it's self out over time

Out of interest....what were you all being quoted for training and test that made it prohibitive....in the grand scheme of costs all things towing it was minimal when I did it in 2017

Same can be said for most post '97 who appreciate what it takes to tow a trailer/horse box/caravan though. I am infintely more fastidious than some older folk I know when it comes to prepping and towing trailers.
If it were for road safety (as I'm sure they sold it as) then the government shouldn't even consider the uproar that would ensue from the elder population. If it helps reduce accident and deaths, an argument that it only applies to younger generations just does not wash.

I think there's also a degree of truth in your statement about them not giving it up without a fight. The current government fear the backlash of their devoted old voters more than raising NI and the uproar that caused.

Deepdale training up here reckoned on 800 ish pound by the way.

We don't just let folk out on motorbikes without training because the stats will no doubt show that accidents would/do ensue.
If trailer training has not reduced the number of accidents, then get rid of it or make it less costly and more of a CBT style training day.
If it has reduced accidents, then keep it for all. Surely?

Was 350 quid for training and test when I did it ....in 2017. Mornings refresher on how to drive. Show the instructor me putting his trailer into the s bay. Couple it and uncouple it.

Test in the pm.

New license in the post 10 days later

I agree keep it.

For everyone though! (I know that's what you mean ;))

Let's face it the only reason they are getting rid of it is so they can concentrate on getting more people through a half arsed hgv driver training (no reversing manuver or couple uncouple now) making the number of drivers high and piling all the risk of useless drivers onto the hauliers

There's nothing safety motivated about this latest round of moves at all neither positive or negative

If it helps reduce accident and deaths, an argument that it only applies to younger generations just does not wash.

Well.. isn’t there strong evidence that drivers >70 are several times more likely to crash?

And one might speculate how many are out there with alarming health problems they not declared to the DVLA.