New (to me) Van ponderings

Barns doors vs tailgate

I presume this is I rhetorical question. 🙂

I do recall seeing a T5 campervan conversion with barn doors advertised once...

OK, so you want people to trust the competence and workmanship of someone who buys a base vehicle with barn doors.....

Erm, no.

If you are burning fossil fuels then why prefer petrol? If it is a 2-3 year old diesel it will be Euro 6, and newer ones 6c or 6d which is even more stringent for NOx. And diesel is more mpg and less CO2. Petrol isn't warm and fluffy just because some diesel manufacturers got bad press a few years ago.

Being open to newer diesels opens up a lot more options to your other requirements.

I presume this is I rhetorical question. 🙂

I do recall seeing a T5 campervan conversion with barn doors advertised once…

No, it is a question you haven’t read properly

Imo a Thule Xpress rack is as quick to mount as throwing a bike in the back of almost any vehicle. Takes me under a min to get mine attached and loaded up, opens the door to almost any car too

Current work van is a 2020 L2 Connect 1.5 diesel. It does 60mpg on a run, loaded with tools, without trying to be particularly frugal, simply sticking to speed limits and not driving like an arse.
It's done 74000 trouble free miles so far.
I'd recommend one. Long enough for big bikes or to sleep in.
Things I don't like:-
No parking sensors on the front on all but very high spec and hard to judge front end.
Sunvisors are too short without a rear view mirror.
The Bluetooth absolutely hates some android phones. Might be the phones though.

If you are burning fossil fuels then why prefer petrol?

This is more to do with my driving habits, I live in the countryside an hour away from a motorway and rarely get into the dpf regen zone. Previous diesel cars (t5 included) have had replaced injectors, dpf, egrs etc. I'm also a bit concerned around all the added complexity of diesel engines to meet euro 6 regs, adblue etc. Something for me to look into though as my concerns are probably unfounded.

There is also that petrol cars warm up faster... Winter commuting 6am in the morning desperate for the heating to start up!

There is also that petrol cars warm up faster… Winter commuting 6am in the morning desperate for the heating to start up!

The modern Diesels I've driven warm up at the same rate as our petrol cars.

I assume it's due to downsizing and smaller blocks to heat up.

Not a massive fan of diesels myself, hence I don't own one. (Work van wasn't my choice).
Ihave memories of the 1.9 Caddys not warming up for what felt like forever.

However most commercials will be diesel and they have improved.

If you feel the cold stick gloves and a scarf on...easy enough to help yourself without needing an engine to be warmed up to do so.
Tailgate is a definite from me as well - brilliant rain shelter when changing!

Why do you need a van at all?

Any car with a towbar will fit a Thule Xpress rack which can be folded into the boot in seconds. No van tax, better economy, more comfort. If you need to take the bikes further on the odd occasion I'm sure you can find it in yourself to take a wheel or two off and put them inside.

Inside tends to be more secure, so inside complete is even better - van (or box shape) is best for that. Think the Puggy Partner Tepee is going to be replaced in the next 6 months and I'm hoping the offerings improve or the prices drop as I'd hate to loose the convenience and practicality.

Why do you need a van at all?

I guess I don't. But we've no kids and another car with seats / towbar if needed. It's more for bike security while I'm at work and riding straight afterwards, bike security while I'm in the pub after a night ride. Useful for tip runs, white goods, sleeping in/camping, etc.

It'll have a bike in it 3-4 times a week and parked in a height restricted multistorey carpark (with the smallest parking bays ever) in a dodgy part of town while I'm at work.

So a van, or van based car seems ideal.

You can get diesel Euro 6 without adblue, Nissan NV200 is one example, they also do a tailgate option.
Electrickery E-NV200 version?
Ford make the Courier and Connect in a 1L petrol
Otherwise your option may be limited to people carrier, petrol, seats out and heavy window tints

I guess the conversion is a modular type kit that's been fitted? Why don't you strip it out and sell the camper kit so it's back to being a bike van?

You might downsize slightly by changing the vehicle but only marginally.

If you do go for a newer vehicle...DPF shouldn't be an issue if you are not stuck in the city, it only needs a run on an A/B road to regen, not an 80mph blast on the motorway screaming away in 3rd gear as some would have you believe 🙂

I've got a 66 plate Connect L2 for exactly the reasons you describe. It's been brilliant. Diesel Euro 6 but no ad blue. Tailgate doors are rare on them though. Not a huge amount of headroom I'm the back so I have a slide out bike rack to make loading easier. 105,000 miles now with no major faults. I prefer driving it to the car, it's basically like a high up Mondeo estate.

Ford make the Courier and Connect in a 1L petrol

Did briefly, (in the Connect anyway) but very rare. I would have had one when I was getting mine, but not sure I ever saw one for sale.

Did briefly, (in the Connect anyway) but very rare

They still offer them new, I can't imagine that they're popular 🙂

Dacia Jogger

They still offer them new,

Oh yeah so they do! I'm sure the only petrols were in the car versions for a while after the mid-life facelift.

Re Dacia Jogger,

I had a good look round one a few months ago and really wasn't impressed by the space.
I ended up buying a low mileage '17 Trafic 1.6Cdi

Barn doors: wasn't what I wanted but actually allows great privacy when changing in car parks. Can sit in cargo bay if raining. I wouldn't get tailgate having had barn doors now.

Drives well, maybe a little underpowered at 120PS, but that's sortable. Averaging 36mpg which is a mix of main and country roads at max permissible speeds. Diesel been no issue.

Disc-O-bed removeable bunks allow 2 bikes, 2 people inside overnight. I do many nights on my own with 1 bike and loads of gear. Flettner vent and window deflectors allow air thru. I'll get it insulated when funds allow. I've made a rack using 3 £15 fork mounts off Amazon and some decking composite 'timber'.

No windows added and Top half bulkhead removed and replaced with curtain for privacy. Additional internal roof mounted tie downs allow surfboards to be strapped to roof inside.

Low profile roof bars added for kayak and longboard carriage plus hides the roof vent for stealth.

Made my own pumped water sustem for ease of use and have a portapotti in a special bag (mainly for aesthetic reasons!) which has been a lifesaver! 🤣

Plan to replace it with a new one in a couple of years....prob end up being my last ICE purchase, so needs to last!

Very common, not excessively expensive and 'under the radar' so attracts no attention. Highly recommended.

I presume this is I rhetorical question. 🙂

Are you mad?

Tail gate is a pain in the arse.
You need to be a full nautical mile from whatever is behind you to be able to get into the boot, you end up smacking it on low hanging fruit if you park near trees, and its all well and good to say you can stand under it in the rainto get changed into dry clothes, but when you DO shut it, the number plate well/hollow has filled with a bathtup of water which you invariably take to the face.

Barn doors take up half the opening distance, you can open one only to reduce drafts. You get changed IN the van. Its the reason you bought a van.

Having had both. Barn doors every time.

Whats the conversion like Neb? whats the van like? whats wrong with the van, other than running costs and driving around with a kitchen in the boot?
Van prices are crazy at the moment, so youll sell it easily, but equally better the devil you know.

Assuming its not a fancy pantsy conversion but has a seatbelted RnR bed, why not pull it out, but simple panels on the sides if needs be and leave a panel van with a second row of seats. and spend the money on an ebike to commute on?

On the tailgate vs. barn door thing, my old T5 had a tailgate and I loved it for the rain shelter/sunshade properties (and the feeling of having a veranda I got whilst sleeping in the back...), but it did cause problems when I parked too close to walls and stuff and wanted to get things out. That could just be me wanting to park nose out all the time though.

If (and it's a big if) I get another van, it's likely to be a Connect LWB and I'll take whatever type of door is on the cheapest/best one I can find. I can always make a roof thingy for the doors, then I will have both a roof _and_ sides.

Tailgate for the win - every time. Aware if you don't think about where you park it might be an issue, but in the 11 years of owning a van-shaped car with a tailgate, I've never had an issue.
Water on bootlid is a mistake you make once and very quickly learn not to stand behind it when you close it.
Barn doors are great if you use curly barred bikes as the barn door isn't wide enough to get bike in without opening both - changing inside is fine until you are utterly clarty then the inside of the vehicle gets thoroughly clarty as well...
Plenty folk prefer barn doors/tailgate...whatever works for you, but the above issues are all very easily resolved and then aren't issues, however it all depends on personal choice and preference.

I've had barn doors and tailgates, they both have pros and cons but people act like barn doors are the plague and will pay well over the odds for a tailgate.

When I moved house, reversed right up to the garage door and realised that my new barn doors open perfectly into the recess of the open garage door, as if it was designed to do so, I fell in love.

One benefit of a tail gate

You know it's never had a pallet dropped in by a clumsy fork lift driver.

My van is barn doors tbh. I bough best solid van I could

I’ve had barn doors and tailgates, they both have pros and cons but people act like barn doors are the plague and will pay well over the odds for a tailgate.

One advantage of a barn door, is you can get out without disturbing other campers with a "swoosh bang™️"

Although in the OPs case id go for tailgate.

You know it’s never had a pallet dropped in by a clumsy fork lift driver.

You'll get a Euro Pallet in the sliding door.

One advantage of a barn door, is you can get out without disturbing other campers with a “swoosh bang™️”

Eh? With barn door you get "bang bang" instead.

Uh no, you just close the one you got out of, and without slamming it, you can just push it shut quietly.

Apparently its Swish Bang™️

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/656184777/t25-t3-campervan-camper-swish-bang-funny

One benefit of a tail gate

You know it’s never had a pallet dropped in by a clumsy fork lift driver.

My van is barn doors tbh. I bough best solid van I could

One amusing aspect of tail gates is if they can't open all the way due to some ladders on a roof rack, for example. They are quite handy for walking into, leaving you on the floor in a busy high Street, wondering what hit you.

I mean I have pretty much precisely the same needs, commuting, bikes, secure inside etc. I run a golf GTI mk7 with back seats permanently down and some sheets to cover everything. I have a lot nicer time driving than if I was in a van!

Van life is overrated in mtb world!

Are you mad?

Tail gate is a pain in the arse.
You need to be a full nautical mile from whatever is behind you to be able to get into the boot

Stuff and nonsense. There are very few parking spaces big enough to get into but not big enough to open the boot if you need to.

you end up smacking it on low hanging fruit if you park near trees,

You what? Why. Totally confused me.

and its all well and good to say you can stand under it in the rainto get changed into dry clothes, but when you DO shut it, the number plate well/hollow has filled with a bathtup of water which you invariably take to the face.

True. Which is part of the appeal. Knowing who the noobs are and who isn't. And laughing at the wife when she does it 🤣

Barn doors: ....actually allows great privacy when changing in car parks.

Erm. From just over half the angles, but as the man below says, you can get changed inside if privacy is an issue.
*

Can sit in cargo bay if raining.

Not if you're loading stuff in the van, or if the van is full. Or if you're filthy.

You get changed IN the van. Its the reason you bought a van.

Nah. I bought the van to sleep in, carry shit loads of stuff and keep beer cool.😎

* gotta concede that the privacy for changing is a reasonable argument. But I'd still prioritise dryness for changing.

Not if you’re loading stuff in the van, or if the van is full. Or if you’re filthy.

Erm, why would being filthy prevent being in the cargo bay? I just sweep the mud out occasionally.

My van isn't full as I manage the space efficiently, but I can't load and sit in the bay....that would be impossible unless I had an extensions like Sigourney Weaver in Aliens.. ..

Barn doors could (if you were so minded) have a tarp run from the roof, over the doors and down the back if you need a bigger changing area. I'm not sure it would be as straightforward or quick to deploy on a tailgate.

And for another matter, assuming you ever go anywhere north of Hadrians Wall you'll quickly realise that rain rarely ever falls vertically. In fact more often than not it'll be more aligned to the horizontal.

Erm, why would being filthy prevent being in the cargo bay? I just sweep the mud out occasionally.

And what? Ruin the carpet/lino/laminate? 😉

Apparently its Swish Bang™️

Mine have never swished. Rollers were hanging, so its more like a cold starting diesel: rumble grumble bang.
I guess on the older vans the doors were much lighter too.

I think weve gone off topic.

Enjoying the tailgate/barn door banter. As a biased tailgate owner, the one thing to add is getting changed inside is easy. We do it all the time e.g after beach or paddleboarding. Has a loop to pull it closed from the inside and a button to open it again afterwards

Definitely a bit more of a pain to open it when there's limited clearance. But having a rain cover is absolute gold

theGeneralist

Stuff and nonsense. There are very few parking spaces big enough to get into but not big enough to open the boot if you need to.

Not my experience.. plus you can also go in-between and open one door or both doors 1/2 way when its really tight.

squirrelking

Barn doors could (if you were so minded) have a tarp run from the roof, over the doors and down the back if you need a bigger changing area. I’m not sure it would be as straightforward or quick to deploy on a tailgate.

Not quite but couple of magnets inside a bit of old inner tube and you can pretty much just throw it over.

mikertroid

Erm, why would being filthy prevent being in the cargo bay? I just sweep the mud out occasionally.

Sweep ... you amish barbarian.. I just blow it out using the compressor 😉

squirrelking

And what? Ruin the carpet/lino/laminate?

Jokes aside the best thing I did was put down the interlocking gym type tiles... they are actually on top of a pre-installed carpet but brilliant for the bike. I spilled sealant on them the other week (changing a tyre inside the van in the rain) and just pulled them up and washed them.

T6 Barndoor owner - I searched out the right barn door van as it makes loading the roof so much easier. Open barn doors, stand on threshold and slide canoe/kayak up onto roof. Had a T4 for a tailgate and used to balance on the towbar or carry a builders step. Plus our doors are fitted with dometic opening windows which means you get a nice airflow through the van even when it is raining or the bugs are out which is important in a small van.

Not quite but couple of magnets inside a bit of old inner tube and you can pretty much just throw it over.

That's pretty much the lines I'm thinking along.

FWIW I'm a tailgate owner (MPV) but can see the utility of a barn door.

As a soon to be former tailgate owner, they suck. It's a small hill, but I'm prepared to die defending it.

Mine arrived to me pre-dented from having been opened underneath something. And I've cursed it every time I've had to open it in a busy car park. Get in, drive 2ft out into the road, stop, get out, load shopping into the boot. If I get another van it'll have barn doors (and if I miss it on drizzly days, I'll get an awning).

part of the appeal. Knowing who the noobs are and who isn’t. And laughing at the wife when she does it 🤣

Sounds like something in-between Stockholm syndrome and a self deprecating schadenfreude.

I've a tailgate and the window section opens as well - so any shopping easily goes in via window rather than whole tailgate - however I rarely use the window opening...I just open the tailgate and load.
I happily park nose in though so have no issues needing to remember about space to open!

Stop squabbling over tailgates...I can barely hear myself think about how nice it is having a high top, which of course comes with proper barn doors that can be opened when you've got a trailer on or parked within 2 metres of a wall 🙂

Unless you've got one of those Uber rare midroof transits with the ugly 3/4 tailgate and still not enough room to stand up to put your keck's on 🙂

[IMG] [/IMG]

Stop squabbling over tailgates…I can barely hear myself think about how nice it is having a high top

Until you try to park anywhere with a 2m height restriction.

Most supermarkets, multistorey carparks etc.

I managed to scrape the roof on a standard transit custom in a carpark, 1.98m? Carpark was 2.1m aledgedly.

That's the benefit of 2.8m, the only place that it *might* fit is some McD drive thru's (not brave enough to try). I've driven low tops with ladders and high tops from a year after passing my test twenty years ago so height barriers are just part of the scenery 🙂

50mm into the over height ferry price bracket is a bit annoying though?

with proper barn doors that can be opened when you’ve got a trailer on

I can vouch that a Vivaro tailgate will open with an Ifor Williams trailer attached, just need to make sure the jockey handle is out the way.

Nice to see this thread has returned to a discussion about actual vans, and not aspirational lifestyle chariots.

Lovely Transit Spooky. 👍

Barn door for me. The only vehicle I regret selling is my Berlingo. I was lucky to have been in a position where there was only really ever me in the van. It was just so easy, I have slept in the Berlingo and it’s obviously no where near as comfortable or as practical as the T6, but for one night it was fine. Both my vans are diesel, more than happy with diesel. Comfort wise, the T6 is very comfortable inside, probably as comfortable as my main car (quite a nice Merc), the Berlingo didn’t have the mod cons, but was absolutely fine. I used to drive to Norwich from MK stopping off at Thetford after work for a short ride, I could change in the back, as soon as I was finished bike in the back, no faff, and away I went.

Berlingo just peeking out in the below picture.

And just to annoy TTHEW…Aspirational vans with mountain bikes attached….

I’ve only just learnt how easy it is to post pictures so every thread I’ve read tonight I’ve added pics, sorry!

I'm not annoyed, I just forgot to put a 😁 at the end of my comment to demonstrate I wasn't being entirely serious.

Your VW is nice too, but the photo demonstrates the main problem with campers in that you can't put bikes and stuff inside because they're full of furniture!

I’ve currently got a vw t5 with a campervan conversion, we’ve had it 10 years or so and not used it as much as a camper as we’d like over the last few. It was brilliant as a bike transporter before the conversion. It’s also looking like I’m going to need to use it as a second car for the commute, so thinking of downsizing… Other complication is I need to drive to start the bike commute 2-3 days a week, so seats down faff in a car isn’t ideal. Struggling to work out what would be best as a replacement, Caddy, connect, belingo/partner/combo, etc. Ideally 2-3 year old.

Petrol vs diesel (prefer petrol)

Barns doors vs tailgate (prefer tailgate)

Panel van vs van based car (prefer van)

But can’t get a petrol panel van with a tailgate for love nor money.

Any thoughts or pearls of wisdom? Cheers

If my van was my sole vehicle I'd want something other than euro6 diesel. Shorter journeys running the kids around can't be the best idea for a more complex engine. Petrol or electric would suit that use better. I'll be using our Transit Custom as my sole vehicle sometime in the next few years for exactly that use though...

Tailgate fanclub member here. Took ages to find a T5 for our first van, best purpose is sheltering from in the rain. Specced our current van from factory, including tailgate.

Panel van suited us better than the people carrier equivalent. Less worry about turfing stuff into the back of a double-cab with its ply-lined interior than the plusher "de-vanified" interior you get in a van-based car. Compromised in ambience, if that's your thing, but doesn't bother me.

At times I debate if a nice big estate car would be a better all-rounder for us instead of a double-cab Transit-sized van: better economy, better performance, easier parking, more comfort. However, a van's just too useful to us. Secure bike storage. Changing room for my daughters post muddy rides and SUPing (they have MUCH more modesty than me). Tip runs. Mini-kitchen on family days out. Camping trips without worrying what you're (not) bringing - just put it all in.

Unless you’ve got one of those Uber rare midroof transits with the ugly 3/4 tailgate and still not enough room to stand up to put your keck’s on 🙂

I followed yesterday a High-Mid roof LWB transit with that freaky-deaky 3/4 tailgate. I properly had to look twice to work out that yes I was seeing a 'unicorn' - a transit you can actually stand up in, but is not in jumbo long flava, and with a tailgate. 'Perfect' bikers camper van...

Aspirational vans with mountain bikes attached….

Nah, it's SWB 😉

Is there an option you've not thought about - re-convert the van? Our T5 was bought as a camper conversion and it was brilliant for years but at the start of this year we decided it just wasn't useful anymore. Removed the camper interior from the back and sold that. Bought a set of kombi seats with the floor, fixings etc and spent a weekend fitting them all myself (pretty straightforward). Ended up being quids in as the new seats were only £500 vs the £1500+ we sold the camper interior for.

The van now sleeps 4 still (had a pop top so obviously kept that but also have an Amdro kombi bed attached to the back double seat) but seats 6 and has loads of room in the back for 3 bikes with wheels on or 4 bikes + luggage with wheels off. Roof bars for surf boards/roof box too and the kombi seats are easily removed for being a proper van. Best thing we did...

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Couldn't do this with a camper conversion in there! Useful to be able to forklift pallets of tiles straight in there (which you also couldn't do with a tailgate 😉 )

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At times I debate if a nice big estate car would be a better all-rounder for us instead of a double-cab Transit-sized van: better economy, better performance, easier parking, more comfort. However, a van’s just too useful to us. Secure bike storage. Changing room for my daughters post muddy rides and SUPing (they have MUCH more modesty than me). Tip runs. Mini-kitchen on family days out. Camping trips without worrying what you’re (not) bringing – just put it all in.

I often think the exact same thing. Could easily flog our van and for half the money get ourselves a 8/9 year old E-Class. But vans are ace... I'd be more tempted to sell our other car and buy another (smaller) van and have two!

I often think the exact same thing. Could easily flog our van and for half the money get ourselves a 8/9 year old E-Class. But vans are ace… I’d be more tempted to sell our other car and buy another (smaller) van and have two!

My less-bikey friends can't understand why I 'put up' with the compromises of a van for everyday driving, but I wouldn't be without one. Hard to rationalise! About 10 years ago we had Mrs a11y's car, T5 camper, and a nice e90 330i. So few miles were being covered, we decided to get rid of one vehicle - only stipulation was the van HAD to stay! So I lost my nice car.

Mrs a11y's onboard with it too and considering an e-Berlingo as her next vehicle although that's a long time away.

not used it as much as a camper as we’d like over the last few. It was brilliant as a bike transporter before the conversion

Erm, unconvert it? Take the kitchen and R&R bed out which I presume live in there, put the back seats in, have it as a nice 5 seats MPV with a huge boot that will swallow a bike easily.

And get a few quid back selling the removed 'bits' ?

@neb

That's three of us agreeing on something!

spooky_b329
I guess the conversion is a modular type kit that’s been fitted? Why don’t you strip it out and sell the camper kit so it’s back to being a bike van?

Yeah, I had both a TT and a T5 when I was in the UK and had to sell one. I kept the T5 because it was both more economical and nicer on longer journeys and had space for the dogs. Never a better choice made on vehicles...

The T5 was a bit battered and scared the other drivers on my commute to Cambridge though. Far more forecful than the TT. Damn. I miss my van.

Knew I'd seen this somewhere but couldn't find it, but it's just popped up randomly in my IG feed. Here you go, solution to the tailgate Vs barn door dilemma

View this post on Instagram

I realised I never followed up this post..

I ended up selling my battered 2010 T5 for a healthy sum of money and bought a petrol Citroen Berlingo van. SWB, 2020 with 11000 miles on the clock.

I think it ticks most of the boxes, small enough to park easily in height restricted car park, better mpg than the old converted T5 (42 vs 37mpg), petrol vs diesel, really nice to drive, bikes inside rather than outside (can fit 1 big bike in wheels on, two bikes in with front wheels off), can still get changed inside if the weather is rubbish, practical for moving stuff, really nice but not enough to be too precious about it.

I just need to keep an eye on the timing belt.