MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Bought a 2nd hand E-class estate from a dealer on Monday. Was the spec I was looking for, from a large motor group (actually a Kia dealership), and travelled 5hrs by train to get there so not local.
Was told (by email) that it was full MB service history and they would also service it before sending it out but when I asked about the gearbox they realised that was "due" and as they couldnt do it so offered to knock off the money of a local independent gearbox oil change near to me. That was preferred to me as then I know the correct oil has been used.
Drove it home and when parking up and noticed after a while that the rear suspension dropped a little. Checked it the next morning and it was still going down...gave it another day and it was now slammed with the tyres up in the arches so air suspension had a leak.
Called them up and they admitted to noticing that too but their mechanic said it was just the air suspension lowering when the engine was off (it's not). They have agreed to have it fixed at a local independent but oddly commented that they will only pay for one attempt and if that doesnt sort it then it's on me to sort out.
Starting to feel a little uneasy so have also just called Mercedes to check the "full dealer service history" and then have confirmed no MB service record for the last 45k miles! Pack from the previous owner does have receipts from a MB dealer for aircon work in the missing period but I called them and they said they didn't service anything but the aircon and confirmed my MB print out dated just before the first of the two missing services was due is the last one on the MB system.
Car is booked in to be sorted next Thursday so is currently sat on it's bump stops on the drive where it has sat since Monday evening. Good job I got the train up instead of driving up in my old car and getting them to scrap it.
The comments about only one attempt to fix and the 45k of missing service history are concerning me. Reject the car and tell them to come and collect or go ahead with the repair and gearbox oil change and ask the independent to do a full check and see what else they pick up?
Worried this is about to turn into a very expensive experience if things have been neglected.
What else have they lied about or 'not noticed'?
I'd return it.
Reject the car and tell them to come and collect
That's what I would do.
The dealer sounds like a right shower.
If they told you it has a full MB service history and it doesn't, then that's goods wrongly described, which is a criminal offence.
Get rid.
I'd reject it, them to collect as soon as money refunded
when I turned up I noticed a poorly repaired stone chip on the windscreen they hadnt noticed and a split in the paint on the rear of the roof against the tailgate they has also missed. Couldnt get any more off the price, they spend £650 getting it ready for sale so I suspect they have messed up on this one and there was not much profit left it in before this problem.
Been hunting for this spec for a while and generally in very good condition - steering wheel and the real leather seats look like new.
Panoramic roof so even if the roof needs respraying it would only be a small section of roof to be sprayed.
when I turned up I noticed a poorly repaired stone chip on the windscreen they hadnt noticed and a split in the paint on the rear of the roof against the tailgate they has also missed. Couldnt get any more off the price, they spend £650 getting it ready for sale so I suspect they have messed up on this one and there was not much profit left it in before this problem.
How old is the car, what is the mileage, and what did you pay?
Just trying to get an idea if expectations are realistic.
Irritatingly I loved the 4hr drive back. 204hp, 500Nm of torque yet was averaging over 50mpg all the way back and not exactly driving like an old man.
When I got back I checked the tyre pressures and they were at 26psi front and 30 rear (should have been 32F and 35R) which didn't impress me but the mpg should go up a bit more again with the correct pressures.
Not sure I can face hunting around for another car with this spec (full AMG, panoramic, real memory leather, DAB etc) but equally don't think I want this anymore. Should just stick with my old banger and buy another bike!
Anyone spotted a decent T5 for sale? Only other vehicle that appeals but will be crap MPG in comparison.
Send it back, ASAP. The dealership sounds like scum.
Buy with your head, not your heart.
They've lied to you. If it were me I'd be telling them to have it collected, repaired, fully serviced and returned to you in the state they told you it was in when you bought it. If they refused, I'd reject it for a full refund. I wouldn't be cocking about with any third party garages, that just muddies everything.
How old is the car, what is the mileage, and what did you pay?
Just trying to get an idea if expectations are realistic.
5.5 years, 100k. I accepted the cosmetics (+ other little ones) as one of those things, just irritated as I asked them on the phone about any cosmetic problems and they said their usual bodywork guy had looked over it and sorted anything...More mileage than I wanted but similar mileage cars with less spec are about £1-2k cheaper depending on private or trader sale so about right.
It is the lack of MB history and selling it with a known suspension fault that are my gripe.
I wouldn't be cocking about with any third party garages, that just muddies everything.
I would rather a local independent who knows Mercs did any work but wary about spending money to put things right if there might be more faults that mean I still reject it. Then I am more out of pocket but a few hundred £ might be worth it to get it checked out fully.
I was planing on having it serviced again at the end of the summer if all was going well with it as I have no idea if the dealer used the correct oil and genuine MB filter when they did it before sale. They did use Mintex pads so didn't scrimp on that.
Not sure I would call them "scum" I think someone messed up and they are not making any money on this one. But then there are a few porkies being told.
The garage knew you were 5 hours away and after a specific spec (for whatever reason). They've lied about the condition, the history and then they've punted it out the door with ****ed suspension. They saw you coming a mile off unfortunately
With regards what your legal rights actually are in this instance and practical advice on how to resolve your problem, call these guys and get proper advice instead of a combination of individual opinion and ill informed information from a bunch of MTBers.... 😉
I know the legal situation (quite clued up on that) but what I was after was the human thoughts (head over heart etc) whether my thoughts to return it were correct or if I was over-reacting.
Sounds like a dog that they were happy to punt.
Get your money back while you can and move on.
I'd be taking it back, it might be worth joining mbclub.co.uk as there's a few guys on there who work in the trade and can get the car you're looking for, I haven't been on there for a while but when I did they were a good bunch with very few dramas
Reject it.
Just out of interest, the dealer group didn't begin with a B did it?
Seems fairly obvious the OP should reject it, and that he has fallen in love with the car and will keep it.
OP, the suspension thing seems to be a common fault. Just spoken to my brother who has an 2010 E Class and had the same thing (as did a mate of his). The fault is with sensors on the rear axle and he thinks it cost about £150 per corner to get them replaced at an independant. Having said all that he still occasionally gets the dropped suspension but it now seems to be an issue with the car getting up to temperature (according to a message on the dashoard) - if he sits with the engine running for about 30 minutes it will rise again. His words "its like an effin clowns car". Hope that helps you decide what to do.
Sounds like you've bought a bit of a shed there.
Air suspension can be insanely expensive to fix, if it's anything like Audi prices for the all-road you can be looking at anything up to £1k per corner for replacement air springs if you're using genuine parts.
I'd be returning it for a full refund there. It's quite clearly not as described.
....get proper advice instead of a combination of individual opinion and ill informed information from a bunch of MTBers....
He asked for opinions not legal advice.
Personally I would.tell them that they had sold a car that isn't driveable, was misses robed and that they lied about the service history.
I would give them the option to collect the car, repair the suspension and the damage, then redelivery it.
Or refund then collect.
Depending on their attitude I would.also consider Trading Standards for the lies about the Service History.
The car has not been serviced as per their sales pitch.
The car has known defects they did not reveal.
Do not spend any money on fixing things yourself, stop driving it around just tell them to come and collect it for a full refund.
You sound like you want the car and are prepared to give the dealer a chance to dick you around until it is too late and you cannot return the lemon.
Just my thoughts
It's been sat on the drive since Monday. Got back, took the Oh out for a quick round the block spin and then parked it up. The free 7 day insurance did not cover me for taking it to work so couldnt use it tuesday morning and then I noticed the suspension fault was serious.
Bought this as I wanted a big, safe, reliable but 50mpg+ car for getting to work and for taking the OH and nephew on trips. Tried Audis, VWs and BMWs and also the smaller C class but the E class was the one that suited the bill and have had the local MB dealer looking for a car for me. Only other vehicle was a T5 but the MPG wont come close nor will it waft along but I think after this I will look at them again and get a cheap petrol golf/A3 as a run-around.
Any subsequent buyer may be put off by the lack of service history so you've a potential future hit to take too.
A hundred thousand on the clock racked up in five years and no service history? Not on your nelly, kick it back.
Bought this as I wanted a big, safe, reliable but 50mpg+ car for getting to work and for taking the OH and nephew on trips. Tried Audis, VWs and BMWs and also the smaller C class but the E class was the one that [s]suited the bill [/s] I really really wanted and have had the local MB dealer looking for a car for me. Only other vehicle was a T5 but the MPG wont come close nor will it waft along but I think after this I will look at them again and get a cheap petrol golf/A3 as a run-around.
There's nothing special about what you say you are looking for. Sounds like you were sucked in by the big flashy, yet surprisingly affordable, Mercedes
The air suspension should not drop overnight. It could be something simple like a split pipe but if the bellow are split and it's overworking the compressor you could be looking at +£1k bike.
I know that it's taken you quite a while to find the right car but there will be another one along at some point.
I'm on my 2nd eclass estate and the 3rd is on order. Great cars!
If it were me I'd take the reject option. Based on these initial issues the car would always be tainted in my mind, regardless of how well repaired. Plus I have to agree with others, it sounds like they sold you a lemon. Good luck.
I'm not sure a leaky pipe on a suspension unit makes a car a "lemon" but I'd prefer a full service history.
get rid immediately.
don't go blowing a chunk of cash on a motor who's last owner was captain kirk.
Run away, run away quickly, irrelevant of what you heart might be telling you. Get a refund, give them the car back, find another one. No way in the world you should be keeping it.
I'm not sure a leaky pipe on a suspension unit makes a car a "lemon"
No, but the bit about they'll pay for one attempt to fix it suggests they know how serious the fault is.
Walk away.
If you do reject it make sure you get the money in the bank at time you return the car - too many stories of people loosing their money this way 🙁
Get a refund, the right car will come along, just don't be in a rush. If you had to sell the car tomorrow you would never get your money back as the full MB service history is not complete.
Its great to have a nice car, but a bitter aftertaste from poor service, the feeling that you've been turned over would sour the experience for me.
I'm not sure a leaky pipe on a suspension unit makes a car a "lemon" but I'd prefer a full service history.
For sure but selling a car with full service history up to the 100k milage but then disclosing that for the last 45k only the air con has been serviced (or been recorded other work may have been done but is not recorded) alongside not disclosing that there is leaking suspension does not show the dealer in a good light.
don't go blowing a chunk of cash on a motor who's last owner was captain kirk.
A hundred thousand on the clock racked up in five years
Do people.really perceive that as big miles?
I do 60 - 70k per year. I would consider 20k per year pretty average if I was buying.
Its not that high mileage, but the ammount of deceit would make me suspicious. The "one go only" on the repair would make me VERY wary.
If your heart is set on it, get an AA/RAC inspection and commence renegotiation from there. Just bear in mind you've got a car with a partial service history only.
Do people.really perceive that as big miles?
Average annual mileage in the UK is about 8,000, skewed in favour of diesels (ie, the diesel average is higher than that, petrol lower). 100k in five years in a diesel isn't particularly unusual, but 100k in five years and no recent service history would concern me greatly.
What about asking your local indie garage to look over it (but do no work) and get a report from them as to what needs doing before making a decision?
Air suspension is a pig to sort - different make (Lexus) but eventually went to coil overs after spending close to £2k on replacement sensors, replacement airbags etc. Be sure you really want the hassle, as it sounds more like the bag is split than the sensor - when the sensor went the car would ride high or low as it was driving, when the bag got a hole it would do as you describe...
I would have alarm bells ringing : I had (poor) historic experience with a Citroen with air suspension. It did exactly what you have described. Fortunately we had the extended warranty that covered parts (£1250) and labour. The garage (main shitreon dealer) didn't replace a part that they should of which subsequently failed with additional garage time and thankfully still under warranty. Total cost was over 2k. The car is now gone (thank any diety you want) and replaced with 59 plate Volvo v70 with 25k on the clock and full Volvo history. Buy with the head and I hope it works out for you.
Where is the dealer o.p? It's not in the Manchester area is it as my mate has a very similar story with an E-Class in January this year. He was promised a full main dealer service prior to collection but when he went to pick it up they stalled him over the service record claiming that the dealership forgot to stamp it. He went to the dealership concerned and they had no record of the car being serviced by Mercedes Benz in several years.
He got a refund on his deposit but only after he told them he contacted trading standards. I'm not sure whether he actually did though.
What about asking your local indie garage to look over it (but do no work) and get a report from them as to what needs doing before making a decision?
Will call them Monday as I need to let them know the booking for Thursday is probably cancelled or the scope of work has changed anyway.
Will also be calling the garage first thing. Left the woman I was dealing with over the suspension a message to call me when she is back in.
Tbh the suspension wouldn't worry me if it was my car out of warranty as I am pretty sure I could sort it myself. Used to work on Citroen XMs when I was 15!
But I do want a full approved or MB service history and the local specialist charges £275 for the larger service, £50 for air-conditioning, £42 for brake fluid etc so just not worth messing over and keeps the resale value.
As far as I know the car has not been serviced for 45k so could be a ticking time bomb. It also knocks quite a bit off the current and future value.
In response to going for mercedes bling - not really. Power, economy and space all better than say a Passat, Octavia or Mondeo and a hell of a lot nicer place (for me) to be. I tried pretty much every big estate out there with an open mind. Vrs, Passat alltrack and 520d were others I liked but not as much.
Reject is the best course of action.
I held out to get my car, from MB, had the saloon tyres fitted (wrong load rating) so had new rubber fitted around courtesy of MB and a few other bits and pieces sorted out with the 12 month MB warrenty (E350 estate).
Sure it cost me a bit over but if it was to be a lemon they would sort out.
Good luck
The only thing that would concern me is if the car has done 45K without an engine oil change. Everything is (pretty) irrelevant, and ime, main dealer servicing only really covers engine oil, cabin filter and routine (pointless) 2year brake fluid changes!
My 335 had a service pack, so has had every service it required for it's 50k miles, and frankly, the number of things the main dealer have missed / ignored is terrifying!
So, if the cars in good nick, and you're going to be keeping it for a while, get a decent indy to check it over and report back, then do what needs doing and drive the thing.
If you plan to sell it in the near future, where the lack of recent servicing could be an issue, then either reject the car, or get some money back from the garage that sold it to you under false pretenses!
(in another 50Kmiles, the value of a car with 150k on the clock or more simply becomes entirely condition dependent. Things like main dealer service history are long gone and un-important)
Aside from anything else, the FMBSH has value attached to it - £500-1000 I'd imagine for that sort of car so already you're down by that amount.
Add in the suspension issue (sounds like it has the potential to be very pricey) and the windscreen and the costs are stacking up. The fact that the garage has a) lied about the service history, b.) done a half-assed service despite noticing a fault and c) there has been no evidence of an oil change, would add to my unease.
If you really want to keep the car then work out the cost of these things and whether that cost is worth it for you. But if you're going to bargain with them, you have to be prepared to walk away. At the moment it sounds like you're not, so they have you over a barrel. Remember they don't want the car back on their forecourt, it's hassle and expense for them so at the moment they're taking you for a ride and getting away with it.
I would be asking them to pick it up, fix it and return it. Hopefully they will come up with a counter offer that's acceptable.
Where is the dealer o.p? It's not in the Manchester area is it as my mate has a very similar story with an E-Class in January this year.
No it's over in Norfolk and not an MB dealer but a large chain of used and other brand new cars.
you have to be prepared to walk away. At the moment it sounds like you're not, so they have you over a barrel.
I am completely 100% prepared to walk away. In fact I am already back on the car hunt looking for something else.
It won't be an E-class as the only one I can find with the spec I want is £2k more expensive and in black with blacked out windows and a tow bar.
Don't want black as it shows up scratches (we will be strapping kayaks, surfboards and bikes to the roof of this thing and going up and down country lanes), would rather fit a lighter tint or some blinds rather than full limo tints and don't want a car that has already been used for towing and would rather fit my own removable towbar.
I will look for something else, probably a T5 or a Vito or a less desirable van and a cheaper car as having 3 vehicles in the household makes a lot of sense to us as both my partner and I need our cars for our jobs and public transport is not suitable.
The only thing that would concern me is if the car has done 45K without an engine oil change.
Exactly, at the moment I have no idea if the car was serviced. The service indicator is showing 1100 miles to next service (was on 1400 when I got it) but I have no idea who serviced it or if it was and what grade oil was used. This is a twin turbo chain driven cam engine and will have an EGR, DPF etc so letting the oil go for too long and not be checked could have implications for the future.
They claim to be performing AA inspections yet missed a large stone chip right in front of the passengers head, split paint and a slight ripple on the back edge of the roof and the faulty suspension wasnt flagged. I am also wondering if the slight vibration i felt through the pedal on certain road surfaces was a wheel bearing and not the low profile tyres after finding a comment in an MB inspection when it went in for the aircon about a front wheel bearing having play. That is something which should have been flagged on an MOT though and all the MOTs are clear.
You mentioned you have a good handle on the legal position, so you'll know if what I'm suggesting is feasible, but since this should have been the car you wanted, I'd take a harder line. You've contracted with them for the supply of a car, as described. They should collect it and fix all revealed faults and return it, and either pay for a free standing warranty to cover any faults resulting from lack of servicing, or pay you an agreed lump sum to over the risk. If they don't wish to meet their contractual obligation, you'll report them to Trading Standards and take them to the Small Claims for the cost of getting somebody else to put it into the described condition.
Take it back pronto. If you paid a portion on credit card (over £100) then you'll also have Section 75 cover should the dealer not play nice. I bought an A6 3.0 TDI Quattro that quickly made clear it had faulty injectors and the garage refused to fix it under warranty - a good few months later I got the full amount back from my credit card company and neither they or the garage wanted the smoking A6 back! It was auctioned off!
What beardy said.
The service indicator is showing 1100 miles to next service (was on 1400 when I got it) but I have no idea who serviced it
Or indeed, whether it was serviced at all. Indicators are easy to reset.
Speak to Trading Standards. IIRC you have to give them a chance to fix the suspension, but the "only one attempt" thing is bullsh/t. The missing service history, however, should be a slam dunk for a refund due to be ing "not as described".
Coincidentally, I looked at a car at the weekend advertised as having full dealer history. Looking through the service book, the stamps were indeed all main dealer, but it was overdue its next service (should have been April, a 12k miles / 12 months schedule). The salesman tried to argue with me that it doesn't need an annual service if it's not done many miles despite what it says in the handbook. There were other niggles too so I walked away. The next day they called and left me a voicemail saying that actually [i]they'd[/i] serviced it when it came in and "forgotten" to stamp the book, or reset the reminder in the car, or put any paperwork in the file. They're not a main dealer, so it clearly does not have a full dealer history and they were just trying it on !
This car really is the gift that keeps giving!
Call dealer on Monday..finally get to speak to one of the more senior sales guys on Tuesday end of the day. He took the car in as part ex and was well aware it was not full history, didn't know why the other guy said it was (which I have in writing).
I agree to keep the appointment with the specialist as I kind of wan to know what else is wrong with the car...
Thursday morning put the key in and "Low coolant" flashes up. Top it up with some water and drive to the garage and tell them everything.
One thing for sure is I want to buy another merc just so I can use this garage (Avantgarde in Clevedon) as I am very impressed.
No call during the day, guy is waiting for me to pop back in after work as agreed. He then takes the time to go through what he has found and the first question was "have you driven this car much". My reply was I have only driven it back from the dealer and then here.
There is impact damage to the floor pan that has gone through the undertray dented the floor, ripped off the undertay mounting stud and creased one of the steel brake lines under the passenger seat. I am adding things up here but refurbished wheels, 2 new front tyres and damage across the mid pint under the car - looks like someone has stuffed this over something or maybe over some of those spike at car parks.
They also checked out the coolant leak and sure enough leak from the side of the block where the fuel filter housing attaches. Common fault on this engine.
Advice from garage - get shot and get a V6 engined one instead
Or get a lot of money off and we can fix it up. Going to have to be a lot off to pay for the work, compensate for the lack of history. I would want this place to immediately do another full service so I know it has been one correct for starters.
Get. Rid.
I can't believe after all this even contemplating keeping it is an option. Just send it back and I'd even push for full refund + costs. Run away
That's approaching write off/Cat D territory.There is impact damage to the floor pan that has gone through the undertray dented the floor
Fixing it *properly* will involve taking much of the interior out, lots of welding and/or big hammers, corrosion protection will possibly be knackered.
😯They also checked out the coolant leak and sure enough leak from the side of the block where the fuel filter housing attaches. Common fault on this engine.
I'd be getting them to come and collect it.
reject it. Not as described and some potentially very expensive faults. Report the garage to trading standards as well for lying
Get. Rid. Of. The. Car.
Basically, as everyone has been saying for a week.
Jeez. You seem very keen on keeping this car.
I'd be rejecting it based on what you've told us, getting your hard earned back & looking for something else.
I'd be getting them to come and collect it.
That is what I told them. Now set for a battle....
Will be reporting them to trading standards too.
& looking for something else.
already am.
If it was a local place I would just drive it there and dump it infront of their main doors but being 4hrs away in Norfolk it's a bit harder.
Car is not safe to drive. I would not drive it back even if it was.
i am now down £46 train, 2 months tax (taxed just at end of month), 2 weeks insurance and a day of my life travelling to get it.
update?
i am now down £46 train, 2 months tax (taxed just at end of month), 2 weeks insurance and a day of my life travelling to get it.
Agreed.
However if you keep it, you are down a lot more than that.
I feel sorry for the OP.
Never trust a second hand car dealer, whether franchised or not. ALL their cars have FSH, by default. In reality, they rarely have FSH by the manufacturers' spec.
The amount of due diligence needed as a consequence is unreal.
I hope OP managed to get most of his money back + costs while he could as the bit that I hope he understands is that the missing SH will not reappear by magic and he will have the hassle of selling without it.
Very controversial but I find that leasing new cars can work out cheaper overall than buying second hand when all parameters are taken into account.
update?
He's decided to keep it, pay the garage more money for the pleasure and washes the salesman's car on the weekends. 8)
I know the legal situation (quite clued up on that) but what I was after was the human thoughts (head over heart etc) whether my thoughts to return it were correct or if I was over-reacting
Reject now as it is a possible/probable money pit ....(and because the longer you leave it the more hassle)
Experience tells me something else will come up.... I've spent 6 mo buying before... checked the usual places and then the following 6 mo you realise it wasn't quite as one-off as you thought....