New or new to me car - advice please

Been at this point many times. When I was doing higher miles I took the company car (normally skodas!) Just made sense to be able to rag a car around and not have to worry about anything. By 'downbanding' the car I was entitled to I offset some of the comapny car tax. When I changed jobs and was doing less miles I took the cash and bought a little Fabia! How much cash do they offer if you don't take a company car? Are you factoring in tax on the company car? Most modern cars are pretty reliable. I've never had issues until reach 80k ish when I've found they need more than routine servicing.

A good place to start with EVs is EV database which gives real world ranges rather than WLTP claims. Link should be available cars with over 300 mile range
https://ev-database.org/uk/#group=vehicle-group&av-1=1&rs-pr=10000_100000&rs-er=300_500&rs-ld=0_500&rs-ac=2_23&rs-dcfc=0_300&rs-ub=10_200&rs-tw=0_2500&rs-ef=150_600&rs-sa=-1_5&rs-w=1000_3500&rs-c=0_5000&rs-y=2010_2030&s=6&p=0-10

"It must be able to do at least 250 miles on one charge in the middle winter in Scotland (mixed driving)."

One nightshift when it was -6C our Volvo EV at work was down to 10% battery after 115 miles. It usualy starts off showing around 250.    You may be struggling to get 250 miles in the worst conditions. 

I still drive an ICE car but given (I understand) there are big tax advantages getting an EV can you not just live with the downside - needing to charge on long journeys?

This is a genuine question. Do you really drive 250 miles without stopping. Because in my last couple of trips I’ve been finding 50kw and even 75kw chargers in all kinds of handy places. Buy and drink a coffee and that’s a massive top up

Posted by: ampthill

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This is a genuine question. Do you really drive 250 miles without stopping. Because in my last couple of trips I’ve been finding 50kw and even 75kw chargers in all kinds of handy places. Buy and drink a coffee and that’s a massive top up

Unfortunately this is a real need. I have to visit remote sites, often over 100 miles away and there is no option to charge whilst at site.
This coupled with the reality that the public charging network in Scotland is crap means I need to be able to get out and back on one charge. It's actually a pain in the neck but the company are insisting on EV's so here we are.

Thanks for the advice so far too. The link to the database is very useful. Seems the Lexus is indeed talking bollocks for range and 180 miles is pathetic for something that size and cost.

And yes, winter is a concern too. To be fair to the Skoda, whilst it's butt ugly and the tech is pretty crap and unreliable, through winter it's been getting a steady 240 miles with AC on all the time... Still don't like it though haha!

Company car is hassle-free motoring.  Zero shits given if the engine falls out tomorrow, you can send me another one, thanks.  It doesn't matter a jot what they're "pushing," it matters what they're offering on the scheme.

Taking an allowance instead, you may find that they want to dictate what you can and can't buy.  If and how they intend to police this is another matter, but if you've got a pile of gear to take with you and you've bought an MX-5 there might be questions asked.

I'd like a 300mile+ range, as I drive from Scotland to the Alps for skiing and for summer (towing a trailer). It just isn't available yet. I'd like an electric Berlingo with a 300mile range at highway speed in winter. 

Public charging in Scotland isn't that bad per head of population, but overall geographically I accept it isn't ideal. It will get better though.

Unfortunately this is a real need. I have to visit remote sites, often over 100 miles away and there is no option to charge whilst at site.

The chargers in Scotland are slow and old, but they are quite well distributed. Can you give us an example of a trip?  They might be 50kW jobs but if you are facing 250 mile range and 300 mile trip you only need to add 50 miles if you get low, you don't need to brim it.  I'm not sure you could drive 200 miles in Scotland without passing a charger or three.

It's also worth noting that nearly all of the real world range numbers in the databases refer to motorway/highway driving.  On rural roads you'll get significantly better efficiency.  Single track roads might be worse but probably no worse than motorways.  There are many people in cold countries reporting back, but again most of them are driving at 80mph on American freeways.

One nightshift when it was -6C our Volvo EV at work was down to 10% battery after 115 miles.

There must be more to that story. Was the car being used for lots of short trips in cold conditions?  The heater will be using 2-2.5kW to get up to temperature which might take 5 minutes on a cold night, and if you are doing a 5 min trip in town that could mean 50% of the power used for heating. But once up to temperature it'll be using 5-600W at most so when you're driving along a motorway using 12kW it will account for far less and the reported range would be much higher even in the same temperature.

To the OP I would be looking at a Hyundai Ioniq 6 as one of the longest range cars available that's not megabucks.

Find a decent used car, but that's a gamble, could be good, could be full of issues, no warranty

Kia and Hyundai make some of the best EVs and if you buy a two year old one you'll still get as much or more warranty than most other brand new cars.

You're driving on company business and they want their employees to take EV's - not really your problem then if you've to stop and charge while on company business.

Reminds me of a pal of mine, they put speed limiters on the company vans and his colleagues were all complaining but he didn't have an issue - as he said, it'll take me more of THEIR time to get somewhere, why is that my problem?

Sounds like you need a diesel mate.

I'd take the money and buy something used, reliability is unlikely to come into it unless you're buying a JLR car 😉

Are there stipulations on how old you can go?

Posted by: intheborders

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You're driving on company business and they want their employees to take EV's - not really your problem then if you've to stop and charge while on company business.

This was my thought. Your company think an EV is a suitable tool for the job that they've asked you to do. You obviously don't agree. So it sounds as though one of you either doesn't understand the reality of driving an EV around remote parts of Scotland or doesn't understand what the job actually requires. Is it possible to actually talk to a human being in the company about the best tool for the job or is this just some policy handed down from on high that can't be challenged?

I think, if you want hassle free long distance driving it's still hard to look beyond a Tesla (especially if your regular trips take you past the chargers in Inverness and Aviemore.   

There are more cars coming onto the market with quoted ranges over 350 miles, which should mean over 250 in real life as long as that isn't all at 70mph, which it's not going to be in remote parts of Scotland. One of those big ugly BMW iX monstrosities would probably do the job for example.  

Thanks again all,

I understand the company car system and I understand the realities of an EV. The thing is I am old and grumpy, and I can't be arsed with the faffing around to find a working charger that is available on my way back from a shift. I also can't be arsed with this adding an extra hour to my day. And as mentioned above the chargers available are generally old and slow.

Will the public charging network get better? I certainly hope so and I'm sure at some point it will. But I see no evidence of that happening any time soon. I live in a popular town in central Scotland with a population of around 14,000. There are 7 chargers available, 6 of which are slow and often unavailable due to either regular cars parked in them (like most places there are issues with lack of parking available), or are not working. There is one charger which is 'fast' but at best I'd say a bit faster than the others. And because there is only one it is often not available, and it is also often not working.
I use Zapmap and for where I need to get to there are limited options. But again, I can't be arsed adding more time to the journey. Is this selfish? Maybe.... And I hear what you say about charging on company time, but the more time I spend charging just makes my working day longer as the time on site is the time on site doing what I need to do. Could I get OT for that? I don't care - I'm at an age where I don't care for the OT, I much rather have time to me so I can do things I want to do outside work.

A used car option - I would be looking at a petrol or diesel vehicle. Company asks it is no more than 9 years old.

I'm an owner (via salary sacrifice) of the dullfest car - couldn't afford the larger battery so my range is a bit poor - 180 miles over winter with temps not much above 3c and a few just below 0c.

Warmer weather it goes to 210 miles and in the heat of a Scottish summer, it goes to 263 miles.

No idea if I get that though as I tend to charge before I get to 20% left.

Loads of chargers are about, but they aren't all fast and where they are, they cost more per kWh...

It is all fine, but my distance for travelling for work is very small.

I wanted a towball and anything smaller as an EV wasn't type approved, but the ID 3 and Born apparently are now and the mg4 is as well. When the Enyaq is due to be returned I'll probably got with the mg4 as it was quite a nice place to be and has better range.

Enyaq is ok, just too big for most of my doings.

Are the company paying for a home charger to be installed? If so, that is a bonus because like it or not in a few years most of us will be in EVs.

Long journeys? My attitude would be that an EV presumably saves you cash on tax.

Saves you fuel for private local use

Long journeys just schedule a charging stop a. Fort William or Inverness. When I drive from Glasgow to Sutherlandin my petrol car I stop at Inverness both ways despite my car having a 700 mile range. I like a snack/coffee and need to pee.

I had a BMW i3s on the work scheme which was great but needed something bigger at change time 18 months ago so looked to buy second hand. I was shocked at the cost, especially as credit rates were bonkers (seem better now?) and just couldn't bring myself to spend £500ish p/m on a nice but pretty middle of the road car that was over 3 years old.

Ended up getting a BMW iX1 on the work scheme for a similar price but including insurance, servicing etc. Seemed a no brainer to me and it's a very nice car. Range is 260ish in warmer weather, nearer 200 in the depths of winter below zero. Never dropped below that though. The only time I've had to use a charger on the fly was at Durham Services and that was quick and easy. Been driving electric for going on 5 years and the charging network has come on massively in that time.

I think, if you want hassle free long distance driving it's still hard to look beyond a Tesla

Not in Scotland.  North of the Central Belt it's Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness, Fort William, Aviemore.

The thing is I am old and grumpy, and I can't be arsed with the faffing around to find a working charger that is available on my way back from a shift. I also can't be arsed with this adding an extra hour to my day

It wouldn't be an hour. You don't have to fill it up, you can just top up to get home - and you can top up anywhere on the route, you don't have to be empty. If you have a 200 mile drive, and you have a car with a 200 mile range (this is worst case) then you only need to stop at some point for 15 minutes.  But with a decent car, you would rarely need to do this, it would be an exception.  For reference, my car does 200 miles in summer, and 175 in winter.  But then I don't whack the heating on 25 and drive in a t-shirt.  The best things to improve winter range are a jumper and some common sense.

We did a modest trip last year on the West Coast, the only problem I had with charging was that I didn't get a CPS card before I went.  It wasn't really a faff either - the car knew where the chargers were and if they were available or occupied.  Just like a Tesla but not limited to superchargers.

The thing is I am old and grumpy, and I can't be arsed with the faffing around to find a working charger that is available on my way back from a shift. I also can't be arsed with this adding an extra hour to my day

How much more grumpy will you be when you find out just how much less your colleagues are paying out for their company EV's than you are in your own s/h diesel?

Interesting point Molgrips

If I can be a bit less grumpy then I may go for the Renault 5…… Claimed 255 mile range, EV database says 200. I loved them as a young fella and I think the new leccy one looks ace!

That 200 miles is an average over the year. Combined cold-weather range is only 165 miles and remember you aren't going to want to run it flat, so you need to take off around 10% to get the distance you'd be happy driving it (when it is fully charged) before charging. 

Don't get me wrong, the Renault 5 is a great car by all accounts, but wouldn't be my choice if range were the thing I cared about most. Sticking with Renault, a Scenic doesn't look anywhere near as cool but has a combined cold weather range of 250 miles.  

Renault 5

🤨 

I think, if you want hassle free long distance driving it's still hard to look beyond a Tesla

My neighbour had a Tesla for 3 years, he recently got rid as he found he couldn’t do the 100 mile journey to Glasgow in winter without stopping to recharge, plus the few charging points on the route were often full or not working.

Tesla is a no.

elon is an arsehole. I’ve always thought he was an arsehole. Tesla will never be an option.

If I can be a bit less grumpy

If that's the aim then a small nippy car would be ideal. And honestly, EVs redefine nippy. I don't mean fast or powerful, but they fact they instantly leap into action even if it's modest pace is really joyful.  You can zip around tight windy roads (safely) in a way that's just impossible in an ICE.  Especially if you have adjustable regen settings or one-pedal, you don't even have to switch pedals.  Give a R5 a test drive.

Mind you if I were driving that far I'd want something more substantial, the Ioniq 6 is top of my list.  What is your budget anyway? BMW i4?

Isn’t the cold weather problem the batteries being cold and inefficienct, not the running of the heater.

As a bit of a curve ball, I picked up a Jan 24 Ioniq5 Ultimate last month with remaining balance of manufacturers warranty for £16254 cat n. Will need less than 2k worth of paint to fix. Comes with a 77kw battery so a real 230miles of winter range. Was £50200 14 months ago which is bonkers.

Kia EV6 or BMW i4 will get you very close to your range numbers even in winter in mixed driving.

Is the 250 miles thing a really frequent occurrence, or something you’ve done maybe once a month over the past year?

For us, public charging is maybe twice a year, so just not an issue. If it was twice a week (and a different place each time, needing planning and searching out reliable chargers etc) I’d probably feel differently. 

No suggestions but as someone else posted you'd be looking at EVs with a claimed range of at least 350 miles for it to have a realistic chance of doing 250 miles in winter. As for dull, aren't all cars dull when using them for long business related miles? As long as it's got a decent infotainment system and comfortable seats I wouldn't care if it's dull or not for that use case.

One of the issues with considering a move to an EV (and I'm as guilty of this as anybody) is that we can get hung up on a single factor and forget the bigger picture. We (or at least I) can also over complicate the whole thing.

An EV is a different solution to the personal transport question than an ICE car. You could say the same about a motorbike. We don't spend ages debating the fact that you are more exposed to the elements on a motorbike or that it's harder to squeeze through traffic in a car. They are just facts. Similarly, a battery EV takes longer to charge than an ICE car does to refuel. That's just a fact. If you regularly drive further than the range of whatever car you are considering them maybe that is an issue for you. But you should also consider the overall experience. 

If you can charge at home then you may not need to visit a petrol station from one month to the next. All those little refuelling trips add up and could well cost you more time overall than the odd extra recharging stop on a long journey. We don't tend to think of that as refuelling the car is something we are used to doing while an extra stop on a long journey is something new. But it's all time "wasted" in refuelling/recharging and you don't get any of it back. 

If you want to get really detailed you could consider that time spent recharging is mostly time where you can be doing something else. Even if you don't go for a coffee, toilet break or whatever, you can still sit in the car and do some work, surf on your phone, watch movies on the screen etc. Time spent refuelling an ICE car is time spent standing next to it and holding the nozzle, paying etc. Yes each stop is short, but they all add up. 

My neighbour had a Tesla for 3 years, he recently got rid as he found he couldn’t do the 100 mile journey to Glasgow in winter without stopping to recharge, plus the few charging points on the route were often full or not working.

Based on a pal that had a Tesla (and now has a Polestar) and constantly on the 'road' I'm struggling to believe that they can't do 100 miles on a charge.  Since he's gone electric he's never complained about range.

A quick Google reckons 250 mile worse case for the cheapest Model 3.

That's all well and true but if the EV would be regularly turning a 9h day into a 10h day (NB not just the charging time itself, but the extra hassle of the stop and searching and looking up where a charger is and the times that they are out of order) then I would quite possibly side with the OP. The question for me is, is this really a frequent thing or just a possibility maybe once a month that they are worried by and which would in reality turn out to be a big fat nothingburger?

Good morning all,

If I decide to go down the EV route then we will definitely install a home charger, being able to charge overnight is definitely a great option for many reasons.

Regards the distances, this is typically twice per week. Unfortunately that is not likely to change due to the nature of the work and typical locations.

Maybe I’ll just carry a generator in the boot and run it whilst parked on site….. haha!

And Regards the cars, I’ve always loved electric motors having a lot of experience of them in machine shops. Car batteries still have a long way to go but that was always going to be the case. The cars themselves I’m happy if it’s comfy. There is a lot of technology crammed in, some of it great, some meh!
The Skoda is alright, but considering the initial purchase price man that’s something! I’ve looked at so many over the past few months and my common thought is that everything is massively overpriced! But that’s a whole other topic.

Regards a/c
Using this in winter chops a good 40-50 miles off the range. I’ve see there are a few cars using heat pumps and that may be a better option but I’m not sure on that.

Latest thoughts on what may be an option:
Polestar 2 - this has a long range battery and it looks alright.
Skoda Enyaq 85 - maybe just keep it? But the unreliable in car tech annoys me. Often CarPlay craps out, it randomly disconnects phone, infotainment freezes from time to time, it’s annoying.

I briefly thought about the Alfa Romeo as it looks interesting but again poor range and I suspect it is a Jeep/Vauxhall underneath (which may or may not be a good thing?)

Other than that nothing right now is really appealing to me. I did test drive a BYD Seal 3,8 thing. It was disappointing and not great to drive.

I’ll arrange a test drive for the Polestar and see how that goes…

Golf GTE as an option?  80 mile range on battery which should do you 5 days a week then you have the engine for longer trips.    

Posted by: shinton

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Golf GTE as an option?  80 mile range on battery which should do you 5 days a week then you have the engine for longer trips.    

Aha! This is indeed an option and actually looks alright!

*adds to list

Posted by: ampthill

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Isn’t the cold weather problem the batteries being cold and inefficient

Get an EV with a heat pump and it'll work better in the cold.

I've tried all the options doing >30,000 miles a year and EV works just fine. It's just a small adjustment to your day and saves about £400 a month in tax. 

Totally worth it. 

Plus you don't need to fill your car up with fuel every day.

winter range in an ev can be heavily effected by how you use the heater. If you're happy to use the electric seats/steering wheel and have the temp set lower, it can really help consumption.

depending on budget, the EQS450+ has a 480mile range (claimed), the model 3 has 440 miles. Both should easily do 250 even in winter in "real" conditions. The tesla is likely to have much better charging infra (might be usable by other cars)

if thats out of budget, the new CLA (announced yesterday) should be loads cheaper, 492 mile range. winner?

I've yet to struggle to find a charging point...the car has a map with chargers and can guide you there. I've had 1 charger not working and another needing a card instead of phone, but otherwise it has been very straightforward to get the car recharged.

One proper moan though is the lack of a unified charging app, each set of chargers needs their own app (unless they take card payments direct) - that is a real headache, once at the charger and got it plugged in, it is a doddle.

Posted by: DickBarton

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One proper moan though is the lack of a unified charging app

Electroverse works on quite a lot, doesn't it?

I'm guessing DickBarton is in Scotland where there's still a lot of faff rather than the simpler experience south of the border.

Is there a budget restriction on this, OP? It just seems a lot of vehicles being tossed in the mix which would differ quite a bit in lease cost. 

The true long range EVs do tend be at the most expensive end of things still.

Yeah, Scotland...ChargePlace Scotland is good, just a huge variance in pricing between locations and councils...but there are plenty chargers around. As you get further into the sticks the variety of charging companies increases.

When I go to Cathkin Braes, one of the junctions seems to have a charger that does 300+ kWh...that would be like a couple of minutes and then done!