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That may well be possible depending on what state the UK is in in 5 years. If Brexit is an issue for the voters at all it will be a bad issue not a good one.
Or do what Blair did, appeal to everyone
Answer me this honestly, do you think Blair would have managed what he did in 97 today, in an environment of massive brexit-inspired polarisation and slap bang in the middle of culture war? I pretty certain he would have failed, I'm pretty certain anyone would fail. Appealing to everyone will only be possible when the culture war over brexit ends, and for that, I'm afraid, one side, most likely the remainers, are going to have to swallow their pride and accept it.
Ang Rayner amirite Daz?
She's the obvious choice. Trouble is people like her with real potential are not going to want to be the leader having to preside over a civil war. Just like in the country, things are going to need to get much worse in the labour party before they get better.
Why don't they get Alan Johnson back? He clearly thinks he knows the answer. Pity he never had the balls to step up when he had the chance.
5 Years seems a long time.
the remainers, are going to have to swallow their pride and accept it.
And brexiteers are going to have to swallow their pride and own it. No excuses any more, you won by hook and crook, now take responsibility for your actions.
And brexiteers are going to have to swallow their pride and own it.
You really don't get this do you? Everyone, both remainers and brexiters are going to have to own it. When I say accept I actually mean really accept it, as in embracing it and trying to make it work. If remainers, and god forbid the labour party try to frustrate it or stand on the sidelines sneering, then the voters will keep voting for the tories.
Remember when everyone ridiculed Corbyn when he called for article 50 to be enacted after the referendum? Well maybe he was way ahead of everyone else?
That may well be possible depending on what state the UK is in in 5 years. If Brexit is an issue for the voters at all it will be a bad issue not a good one.
Well if Brexit is the calamitous, damaging shit show that the remainers claim it will be then Labour should walk the next election with the country in financial ruin.If on the other hand there is an economic bounce then Boris will be riding high and any labour leader who was a remainer will have that thrown back in his/her face ad nauseam.
Well if Brexit is the calamitous, damaging shit show that the remainers claim it will be then Labour should walk the next election with the country in financial ruin
More likely is that another entity will be held up and vilified as responsible for Britain being unable to prosper.
inability to deal with the anti-semantic issue
was that an assertion or an assumption?
dangerousbeans
Well if Brexit is the calamitous, damaging shit show that the remainers claim it will be then Labour should walk the next election with the country in financial ruinMore likely is that another entity will be held up and vilified as responsible for Britain being unable to prosper.
Well we have been overdue another recession for quite some time now. Maybe another EU banking default like Italy which has been teetering for a while now might trigger something.
I predict Keir Starmer will be the next Labour leader ...
Grace Blakeley saying Labour were not radical or socialist enough to win on Radio4 right now. Really.
Or do what Blair did, appeal to everyone and clean up three times in a row, in spite of the electoral handicap of a deeply unpopular war before the last one.
I'm not sure Labour actually want / wanted to win. Blair / Campbell showed them how to do it and they still refuse to admit they were ever part of Labour, written out of their history as an abhorrent accident. They just seem to prefer losing with honour. I fully expect them to pick another extreme left wing nut job and continue the noble battle. Took Kinnock years to clean out Labour after the Millitants, the same thing has to happen again before they stand any hope of winning an election.
Richard Burgon for leader.......
Rumours that he's going to get nominated and voted for by entrists from the Monster Raving Loony party are fake news
Grace Blakeley saying Labour were not radical or socialist enough to win on Radio4 right now. Really.
I heard that and laughed out loud.
Answer me this honestly, do you think Blair would have managed what he did in 97 today,
I think he probably would. He sold positivity when things looked bleak. As bleak as they do now. A vote for New Labour meant a vote for a better future for everyone. Corbyn sold fear, if you don't vote for me the Tories will ruin you, unless you're a billionaire.
Corbyn looked weak on Brexit, Leavers didn't believe he'd leave, Remainers didn't believe he'd actually deliver a fair and reasonable 2nd Ref. Corbyn's message was actually decent. They couldn't just revoke A50, even if they won because they're the Opposition (the Libs cauld because any party that goes from 12 MPs to a majority government has a clear mandate to do anything they promised pre-election) but a 2nd, real-world, real-deal ref would settle the matter. Blair could have sold that as the responsible, reasonable thing to do with an easy to follow Soundbite "Get Brexit Done" could have been weaponized for Labour- the choice between either remaining or a quick and easy Brexit saying within the Common Market etc, or years of 'chaos' with Boris negotiating deals with most of the globe. Corbyn just looked like a man forced down a road he didn't want to take.
The tories made slight gains, the lib dems made slight gains, the story of the results is really labour losses, that is down to the campaign they did run, they got it wrong from start to finish and now we have to pay the price.
Agreed - they ****ed it right from the day they backed May on A50.
Corbyn looked weak on Brexit, Leavers didn’t believe he’d leave, Remainers didn’t believe he’d actually deliver a fair and reasonable 2nd Ref
+1
His tactic alienated both sides, it was almost offensive in that it seemed like he thought both sides were thick.
Blair could have sold that as the responsible, reasonable thing to do with an easy to follow Soundbite “Get Brexit Done” could have been weaponized for Labour
+1
Save us Tony, you’re our only hope.
Richard Burgon for leader…….
Rumours that he’s going to get nominated and voted for by entrists from the Monster Raving Loony party are fake news
He's on LBC now, it's hilarous. Comical Ali.
.
I think they need to look seriously at kicking momentum into touch.
If the local activists in my area are anything to go by, no wonder the "traditional" supporters left. I've seen constant, vocal, aggressive and condescending attacks on anyone who dared question anything about labour or JC, continual repetition of "you're all idiots/nazis/selfish tory scum" type rhetoric from them. And who was ever won over by a sanctimonious, middle class suburban c*** sneering at them for not being "socialist" enough when their primary concern is putting food on the table right here, right now.
Get that destructive and reputationally damaging faction out and they might be able to rebuild.
I think they need to look seriously at kicking momentum into touch.
Yup. We need some kind of cross between Alistair Campbell and John Wick to purge the pricks out of the party.
So who has the resolve to do it?
If the local activists in my area are anything to go by, no wonder the “traditional” supporters left. I’ve seen constant, vocal, aggressive and condescending attacks on anyone who dared question anything about labour or JC, continual repetition of “you’re all idiots/nazis/selfish tory scum” type rhetoric from them. And who was ever won over by a sanctimonious, middle class suburban c*** sneering at them for not being “socialist” enough when their primary concern is putting food on the table right here, right now.
They were talking about "thousands" of activist volunteers doorknocking on the radio this morning. I did wonder what sort of person they were and how many votes they gathered verses how many they put off.
Get that destructive and reputationally damaging faction out and they might be able to rebuild.
Blair swept them under the carpet for a short while but I can't see anyone in the current Labour leadership who is willing or able to do that. Vocal, aggressive and condescending underdogs seems to be their preferred stance.
Web Streeting on Sky.
He is angry enough to be a good attack dog for the Blairites.
He’s having an epic rant.
Blair...
I think he probably would. He sold positivity when things looked bleak. As bleak as they do now. A vote for New Labour meant a vote for a better future for everyone. Corbyn sold fear, if you don’t vote for me the Tories will ruin you, unless you’re a billionaire.
Completely agree with this. Corbyn is a good protester, as are several other members of the party. He's a crap politician, especially when put on the spot and having to think. He puts people on the defensive with a divisive us and them attitude.
I wasn't a huge fan at the time, but Blair is very intelligent, able to rip people to pieces in an argument. And if there is a positive argument for his stance he can articulate it incredibly well making it difficult to argue with him. And of course, if there isn't, he'll create one, just like politicians do.
He’s having an epic rant.
They're all going to be piping up in the next week or so. Totally pointless, and it'll only make things worse, but they probably need to get it off their chests. Of course the fact they're all complicit in it has probably passed them by, but if they think the left are going to simply disappear then they're mistaken.
Angela Raynor, please.
They’re all going to be piping up in the next week or so. Totally pointless, and it’ll only make things worse, but they probably need to get it off their chests. Of course the fact they’re all complicit in it has probably passed them by, but if they think the left are going to simply disappear then they’re mistaken.
Then they will be out of power for more than the 15 years it took them to bounce back from 83. How does a labour government in 2040 sound to you?
Oh and Rayner suffers from the same lack of ability to beat people in arguments like Corbyn.
I’m not sure anyone believes the left will disappear.
It’s whether they’ll ever get elected that’s the more important question
Of course the fact they’re all complicit in it has probably passed them by,
Web Streeting specifically said the PLP, including him, were complicit (he might even have used that word). He openly admitted they've known as long as everyone else that Jezza was a liability, well longer.
I'd never heard of him before. Hope they get rid of Momentum and he stands as leader. Articulate guy, I have strong urge to vote for him.
I’m not sure anyone believes the left will disappear.
And why should they need to? The problem here wasn't the policies, well apart from the one suicidal one we all love to talk about, but if they could marry a halfway likeable leader with the policies that everyone likes then they could recover very quickly. If Corbyn proved anything it's that supposedly hard left, but not hard left at all policies like rail nationalisation are sellable.
The more I think about it, the more the name Lisa Nandy pops into my head.
I wasn’t a huge fan at the time, but Blair is very intelligent, able to rip people to pieces in an argument. And if there is a positive argument for his stance he can articulate it incredibly well making it difficult to argue with him. And of course, if there isn’t, he’ll create one, just like politicians do.
You'll find some of the best arguers amongst Barristers, which he was for a time. They're the 'sexy' performers of the Legal world who's job it is to convince people their interpretation of the facts, rules, laws etc are correct.
My Uncle in Law is a QC, he's a pompous dick, but almost impossible to argue with.
Tony Blair was only a barrister for a short time, and not a very senior one.
Keir Starmer was a QC and Human Rights defence Lawyer before he was the head of the CPS, he was Knighted for his services to the Law.
He's a Sir and a studied Law at Oxford, but he's the Son of a Nurse and a Tool Maker and was given the name Keir in honour of the first Labour MP.
If you were going to design the perfect Labour Leader, they'll look like him. He's of the People, but he's also all the things the Toffs think are important. He's not going to get flustered by a muppet like Boris, or anyone else.
Momentum will no doubt hate him.
The problem here wasn’t the policies, well apart from the one suicidal one we all love to talk about, but if they could marry a halfway likeable leader with the policies that everyone likes then they could recover very quickly. If Corbyn proved anything it’s that supposedly hard left, but not hard left at all policies like rail nationalisation are sellable.
The policies were dire. We're a small c conservative country we don't vote for radical stuff.
Multiple nationalizations, just every single thing they could think of dumped in. Dozens of billions here, dozens of billions there. Then a random 58bn after the manifesto was published! Multiple Bank Holidays, a 4 day week. It was totally implausible. Nobody believes there was civil service time or that they could get the cash spent fast enough. Even hardcore momentum supporters on here don't understand some of it.
Maybe one nationalization and a few other things with a theme to tie it all together would have been managable and possible to sell.
All the commentary I've seen today says there there three problems: Corbyn himself, Manifesto & the Brexit policy. From everything I've seen I agree.
Keir Starmer was a QC and Human Rights defence Lawyer before he was the head of the CPS, he was Knighted for his services to the Law.
He’s a Sir and a studied Law at Oxford, but he’s the Son of a Nurse and a Tool Maker and was given the name Keir in honour of the first Labour MP.
If you were going to design the perfect Labour Leader, they’ll look like him. He’s of the People, but he’s also all the things the Toffs think are important. He’s not going to get flustered by a muppet like Boris, or anyone else.
Momentum will no doubt hate him.
This.
If Corbyn proved anything it’s that supposedly hard left, but not hard left at all policies like rail nationalisation are sellable.
LOL
The urge to escape our real self is also an urge to escape the rational and the obvious. The refusal to see ourselves as we are develops a distaste for facts and cold logic. There is no hope for the frustrated in the actual and the possible. Salvation can come to them only from the miraculous, which seeps through a crack in the iron wall of inexorable reality. They ask to be deceived. What Stresemann said of the Germans is true of the frustrated in general: "[They] pray not only for [their] daily bread, but also for [their] daily illusion." - The True Believer
Its a valid point about positivity - Corbyns key message this campaign, or rather the message that got across, was negative: 'Don't let him sell the NHS.' There needed to be a 'We will XYZ' to combat the 'Get brexit done' bullshit.
Well I imagine the new leader will be chosen when Len is ready.
Corbyn was awful, but the bigger problem is his puppet master, McClusky. He is absolute poison. A Rabid Militant Tendency Liverpool docker, who proudly boasts of his union record such as British Leyland and the Liverpool dockworkers.
As GS of unite he holds all the power.
A think a period of reflection is a good idea rather than reflexively finding a leader in the midst of all the bitterness and recrimination in the PLP at the moment.
I'm sure the good candidates are there. I like Angela Rayner, but not sure she has broad appeal. No real liking for Rebecca Long-Bailey, and haven't seen much of Burgon in action.
Keir Starmer would be an obvious choice, but is he too metropolitan for a campaign that has to win back ground outside the cities? Likewise Emily Thornberry.
Is Dan Jarvis ready to step up yet? I like the guy, and think he has potentially wide appeal, but he's firmly in the centre, so not sure the members will vote him in even if he wanted the job.
The gap since the last Labour administration means that whoever you pick, they will have little or no experience of government.
Corbyn was awful, but the bigger problem is his puppet master, McClusky. He is absolute poison. A Rabid Militant Tendency Liverpool docker, who proudly boasts of his union record such as British Leyland and the Liverpool dockworkers.
So what you’re saying is that a scouser robbed us (of the chance of a labour government)?
Corbyn was awful, but the bigger problem is his puppet master, McClusky. He is absolute poison. A Rabid Militant Tendency Liverpool docker, who proudly boasts of his union record such as British Leyland and the Liverpool dockworkers.
Ably assisted by Milne and Murray.
Batshitmentalists, the lot of them.
Milne and Murray are employees. McClusky is the power.
All I’m saying is it’s not as simple as “replace Jezza”
Keir Starmer was a QC and Human Rights defence Lawyer before he was the head of the CPS, he was Knighted for his services to the Law.
He’s a Sir and a studied Law at Oxford, but he’s the Son of a Nurse and a Tool Maker and was given the name Keir in honour of the first Labour MP.
Starmer would be great IMO, in 'normal' times. My fear is all those things above are just weapons to bash him with now.
"He's a sir! He doesn't speak for you! He's a remainer! He defied the will of the people! He's a tricksy Human Rights PC gone mad lawyer who got x off of y charges!"
Labour will need to have all the rebuttals fully in place and ready to go with whoever they choose.
Odds on Burnham throwing his hat in again?
Conflicted though. Starmer is clearly the best hope of properly opposing the Tories and tying Boris up in knots at PMQs, but agree that he has some awkward and easily weaponisable baggage to overcome.
Dan Jarvis?
Johnson and co wouldn't scare him.
In fact, he is the candidate who would probably scare them the most. Which, TBH, is what Labour needs right now.
From 2015: