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@cougar thank you very much mate, appreciate your time.
pretty sure it wont be classed as bespoke, nothings been designed specifically to fit our kitchen, theyre all bog standard sized units, and we're getting the worktop elsewhere (which is another issue.... "come on mate, we cant hang on to this worktop forever, can you put 50% deposit down?")
however, i agree with you on the catching flies with honey rather than vinegar, better to keep up good relations (plus theres no reason why they wouldnt tell me to jog on anyway when i asked for a refund).
our neighbours garage is empty and im sure she wouldnt mind, but shes 96 (i think) and er.... you know.... will she still be around in 10 years time when the builder gets sorted 😀
thanks again, like i said, i appreciate your time.
Nightmare. We had a similar thing with our extension, as the build took a bit longer than expected.
We always knew the kitchen would be delivered before the build was ready though, so prepped the garage in advance. Only issue was that despite the assurances of the builder, he didn't get the new door on the garage in time, so ended up sealing it up with a large bit of OSB propped against it. This was a standard size 'personnel' door rather than a full-width up & over.
Even so, I had many sleepless nights worrying it was going to get wrecked/damp in the garage, even after the door was fitted. But, in the end it was actually fine.
In your situation, unless you have a very good relationship with your neighbour and they don't need their garage, I would pay for a storage unit & get it delivered there. Kitchen units take up more space than you expect when they aren't fitted around the walls.
We had to put the stuff we cleared out of our garage while the building work was done into storage & for something large enough to take our entire cluttered garage cost us ~£165/month.
I'd go for somewhere that is large enough so you could check the kitchen over as best you can, once it is delivered. It's a bit of a nightmare scenario but I'd explain it to the kitchen people & see what they say.
With Howdens, we found some damaged parts at the time of fitting (about 2.5 months after delivery) and they replaced it all next day without any issue.
Fingers crossed it all works out!
Re: appliances. Miele have a factory outlet which issues a stock list and prices daily. Some of the stock is absolutely brand new still packaged, others ex-showroom - they tell you which. Prices can be a very big discount from list, the staff on the phone are excellent to deal with and it’s free delivery
our neighbours garage is empty and im sure she wouldnt mind, but shes 96 (i think) and er.... you know....
My thinking really was that if you use a 'facility' then as far as I can tell there's an audit trail. If it eventually arrives to your pad damaged or incomplete then you've got records of who delivered what where and when, so whilst allocating individual blame might be tricky you can demonstrate that it's not your fault. Whereas languishing in a neighbour's garage for however long, who knows whether some neanderthal has coshed in a corner or kids have dragged a bike pedal down the side when squeezing past it to visit granny.
Again, this is not legal advice. 😁 I'm just thinking out loud.
(plus theres no reason why they wouldnt tell me to jog on anyway when i asked for a refund).
You have the right to reject under CCR, *IF* it's not a bespoke order.
It seems that there's rumblings within the EU that when it's uncertain, the definition of bespoke should be considered narrow rather than broad. But, y'know, another brexit benefit, we no longer have Johnny Foreigner dictating what we have to do around consumer protection. Yay us. \o/
DIYK have a summer sale on (which is actually a sale and not just a week of high prices followed by a return to the normal price) so I'm in the process of finalising my order. I'm going to be fitting myself so wish me luck!
we dont really have anywhere to store it. i guess we dont have any options?
A small unit in a self storage place isn't an outrageous amount of money per month. That's what I'd be looking at, and try to get the supplier to drop straight there with you on attendance otherwise you've to shift it all after delivery.
Edit - sorry replied to your tale of woe before reading subsequent posts, which I see now already suggested the same.
its replacing a howdens kitchen that i fitted myself
12 years - thats utter rubbish to have to replace after that short a time. My IKEA kitchen is starting to show a bit of age now - its almost 30 years old ( altho a mates 15 yr old IKEA kitchen has not lasted so well)
we-ell things might be progressing.....
i rang my mate up to bump him on knocking the wall down and he says he'll do it thursday or friday so fingers crossed. with it (hopefully) just being a short timescale, i asked my neighbour if i could store the new kitchen in her garage from tuesday and of course she said yes 🙂
ive just started removing a few units and tomorrow i'll try and swap the oven (and its cabinet) over to the other side of the kitchen along with the fridge freezer, just to prove the electrics will be in the right place when D-Day comes. looks like the power cable comes out the back and all the way round the kitchen behind the units and dishwasher at skirting level, so i'm hoping i can fight my way through the cobwebs and reconnect it in the right place.
ive also removed all the old kitchen tiles which needed doing anyway, so im hopefully just going to keep chipping away until i know what needs re-plastering, and that we'll have enough enough sockets in the right places.
kitchens not pretty at the moment but im hoping to tidy up and leave it usable each day.
one question please. i get the feeling i may have to start fitting the new kitchen myself, so do you think its a good idea to buy a laser level? or will my old faithful bubble do?
cheers
All levels work in the same way. your bubble will do (as long as its accurate)
... ..
For doing room-sized work, a laser level was a game-changer for me. I have it on my camera tripod. If I was putting up a shelf I'd use a spirit level, if I was doing a wallful then laser all day.
For sure a laser is a great aid, but it’s not essential.
so do you think its a good idea to buy a laser level? or will my old faithful bubble do?
Ye olde spirit level tbh isnt as accurate as you would hope, and judging a little bubble that might be a fraction off, which you cant really tell. Maybe in the hands of a pro, you understands levels, especially over a wider area, but most of us are pretty much guessing and hoping its correct.
The laser projects a long line, and some of them also do a cross for X/Y axis is now probably the industry standard for fitters and joiners.
Plenty of types available and even pro branded ones are quite cheap as it goes.
You can also get a digital spirit level these days, that have audible buzzer sound for different angles 0/45/90 degrees.
Something decent on the audible spirit level seems to start at £100, laser by comparison for Stanley, dewalt or bosch look to start about 1/2 that.
Plus the laser type are self leveling, so it doesnt matter if the floor its standing on isnt
Ye olde spirit level tbh isnt as accurate as you would hope, and judging a little bubble that might be a fraction off, which you cant really tell.
The first thing I'd do with an unknown level is measure a horizontal, then reverse it and measure again. If the bubble looks level but is actually out then it'll be out by twice as far when you turn it around.
+1 to everything else there though. A spirit level is "good enough" for most people most of the time. Personally it's the sort of thing I get a bit obsessive over, if I put up two shelves and they were slightly on the piss from each other then it'd annoy the crap out of me for evermore because I'd still know even if the difference wasn't visible.
Something decent on the audible spirit level seems to start at £100, laser by comparison for Stanley, dewalt or bosch look to start about 1/2 that.
This is mine.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/magnusson-red-self-levelling-cross-line-laser-level/1119x
I paid £22 for it on offer at Screwfix 4 years ago. (The offer is probably why I bought it at all, TBF)
The first thing I'd do with an unknown level is measure a horizontal, then reverse it and measure again. If the bubble looks level but is actually out then it'll be out by twice as far when you turn it around.
yep, an engineering apprenticeship back in the day means that im happy with reversing a bubble to look for any discrepancies (not that i should need an apprenticeship for that tho) 😀
anyways, decision averted. my mates going to lend me one so ill see how useful i find it and maybe buy my own.
productive day yesterday although the aches and pains are telling today. scrabbling about in the cobwebs under the units to move the cooker electrics to the other side of the room, deconstructed half of the current kitchen and moved it all around to 'prove' that the new one will work with current sockets and spaces. just a small electrics reshuffle needed.
next question. when questioned, the lass at MKM said put your floor in afterwards. instal it up to the legs on the units and then the kickboards will cover it. makes sense i spose, dont want the fitting of the kitchen to damage a new floor. would you agree?
current thoughts are LVT, altho im told you need a screed for that, tiles you dont. thoughts please?
thanks
when questioned, the lass at MKM said put your floor in afterwards. instal it up to the legs on the units and then the kickboards will cover it. makes sense i spose, dont want the fitting of the kitchen to damage a new floor. would you agree?
Depends if you’re fitting kickboards. If so then this makes sense though I can imagine the heart sink of any future house buyer when they see the flooring didn’t go to the edges. It can impede removal of things like dishwashers if the flooring is in front of their feet and the worktop does not offer enough room to raise the device to get it out.
We had oak boards installed wall to wall as I had ‘fancy’ steel legs on all the units and wanted lighting under the units to provide more illumination from light reflected from the floor. I like the more open style and the edge to edge flooring finish. We used hardboard to protect it during installation of units and so forth.
next question. when questioned, the lass at MKM said put your floor in afterwards. instal it up to the legs on the units and then the kickboards will cover it. makes sense i spose, dont want the fitting of the kitchen to damage a new floor. would you agree?
Ours is like this. I hate it. It's a pain in the arse getting white goods in and out should you need access behind them, you've got to hoik them over the lip where the tiles finish and the clearance is about the thickness of a mosquito's willy.
Our cupboards are getting tired now but the floor is fine. For the sake of someone penny-pinching a few quid, should I come to replace it I'm going to either have to refit a new kitchen exactly matching the old one or rip the whole floor up.
I ran the flooring under the white goods to avoid that PITA. I think I'm going to do the whole floor before fitting the new units, fortunately, I recently bought some spare for just this reason.
hmmmm..... maybe have to rethink then. altho i usually put bits of wood down for the wheels/legs to slide along rather than drop down the lip. still, they can often move tho.
i suppose the benefit of going up the skirting is itd alleviate that problem and look tidier (altho once in you couldnt tell the difference).
negatives, extra cost and if we ever wanted to change just the floor at some point we'd be stuck. oh and thered have to be a few days or more of nothing in the kitchen, i was hoping that if i was putting it in myself i could do it bit by bit, wall units first, then slowly take out one unit at a time and replace with a new one. looking at the walls tho that might be unrealistic as i think at some point we'll need a tidy up from a plasterer so we may still have to have an empty kitchen for a while.
bluddy kitchens grumble grumble..... 😀
I'm going with scorched earth... Old units out, tiles off the wall, flooring up (it's click laminate so nice and easy), radiator off. Then it's do the electrics, which is moving a few sockets and capping off the gas, reorganising the water/waste to make more efficient use of the undersink space. Next, it's make good and repaint before the floor goes back down and the base units go in.
Sounds like a doddle, right... 😲
What are you doing in the afternoon?!
personally, I’d floor up to units but under wherever floor standing machines go, I usually leave the end panels and plinths off, do the flooring then fit afterwards, saves cutting flooring around panels and still allows machines to stand on finished floor level.
Glue down LVT 100% needs a smoothing compound, click LVT might need one depending on how they’ll current floor looks, need to be done if more than 3mm variance. Tiles can mostly go on bumpy floors, but once you have to correct the floor with adhesive as you go.
I'm going with scorched earth...
the more i look at it the more i think this will need to be the way. different level sockets, old tile grout on the walls which will bring plaster away.... if we're going to do it we need to do it properly so will maybe need wallpaper stripping and a skim.
im just scared of being without a kitchen for a long time. say the flooring fitter rings to say cant do it now itll be a couple of weeks for some reason, we're just relying on separate trades to do stuff in a well orchestrated and timely manner. its not going to happen is it 😀
Glue down LVT 100% needs a smoothing compound, click LVT might need one depending on how they’ll current floor looks, need to be done if more than 3mm variance. Tiles can mostly go on bumpy floors, but once you have to correct the floor with adhesive as you go.
im pretty sure we'll need it levelling once ive taken up the current tiles.
tempting to do it bit by bit and cover up the sh1t bits afterwards, but i know its not the right thing to do.
'kin kitchens grumble grumble.......
Slight hijack, current kitchen will need to be done at some point. the current floor is probably asbestos tiles. So pros and cons, can I put self levelling over the top and encapsulate or is this only going to cause issues later?
For the sake of someone penny-pinching a few quid, should I come to replace it I'm going to either have to refit a new kitchen exactly matching the old one or rip the whole floor up.
yeah i get you but on the flip side, should i need to replace the floor, (which will probably be more likely than another whole new kitchen) then id have to take the kitchen out 🙂
builders finally been round to have a quick look before starting tomorrow (yaaaaay) and also said that he'd recommend doing the flooring afterwards just up to unit legs for ease of replacement. so thats that, i'll do that and make sure anything that might need to come out is on casters or planks of wood or somethings.
he also suggested that LVT is 'a piece of p1ss' to fit yourself (easy for him to say) so at this rate i can see me doing everything. a kitchen fitter would charge me a grand (and thats mates rates) and would just do units (worktop is separate company who fit it themselves). which means id still have to do all the sh1tty jobs like moving sockets, plumbing the sink. it just doesnt seem value to be paying 1k for fixing units to the wall which in the grand scheme of things would seem to be the simpler task (yeah right).
if someone would say to me theyd do the whole kitchen from top to bottom, wiring, plumbing, making good the plaster then id go for it. i did ask the builder if he fancied giving me a quote for it and he sorts the subbing out for those jobs but he said theres just no decent kitchen fitters that he could get to do it within the next few months so id still be waiting.
cheers
yeah i get you but on the flip side, should i need to replace the floor, (which will probably be more likely than another whole new kitchen) then id have to take the kitchen out
A good point, well made.
well the builders here now, and doing a good job, im pleased with their work. ill have a few days to sort out new wiring, strip wallpaper and take units out as plasterer wants an empty kitchen. he'll finish off next week. then the fun starts. i need to plan it all to be without a sink for the shortest time possible.
out of interest, has anyone fitted a 'linear' kitchen before?
Just bought two 300x65x4cm beach worktops from the French equivalent of B&Q. They're about £160 each on the UK site. Very nice but 45kg each so I'm going to struggle to move them till I've cut a few holes. I tipped the guy at the store 10e when he helped me get them on the roof rack. Each kitchen I've done I've made everything from 55x65mm wood and 145/180mm floor boarding with second-hand doors. I'll do the same again.
well its been an 'interesting journey' we're months behind and been using a sink balanced on a pair of upended wheel ramps and ive 'fashioned' a bubblewrap splashback to keep us going 😀 (ignore the H&S issues with the socket on the floor, i raised it immediately 🙂 )
anyway, the walls now down, we're plastered up and ive sourced a good local fitter who works on symphony kitchens for a living and him and his mate are here today doing a cracking job, pair of real good lads.
but..... "wheres your extractor fan?" ahhhhhh yes, extractor fan. forgot about that, ordered fridge freezer, oven and 5 burner hob, but for some reason hadnt considered that the extractor fan wasnt included with the units 😀
no real issue, he says he'll come back to fit that, but i thought id ask on here for any recommendations. is an extractor something that you can go cheap on? ive asked around and im told main thing is the flow which ideally would be around 600 (m3/h?).
we ordered our appliances from marks electrical but they dont have anything suitable in our price range. anyone used cookology before?
thanks
We just had our kitchen done, went with granite as apparently it's cheaper than quartz, plus it's completely rock solid. We have black/greeny/swirly granite and it looks pretty amazing.
Our kitchen fitter said that LVT tends to show wear patterns in the places where everyone walks after a while. We went with ceramic tiles in the end (and now have slightly mismatched tiles, but it looks fine).
we've already put down a deposit on the quartz we're having, but most trade recommendations have been for quartz over granite, cant remember why now. easier to clean? doesnt stain as much? cant remember.....
we're havent bottomed out the floor yet, but still thinking LVT tho for simplicity and also a little warmer than tiles. we have a cold house which will be even colder now with one less wall and open plan.
Possible to consider under floor heating at this point? Cost of parts for electrical in mine was £700. Total for all flooring work with UFH and insulation with £50sqm travertine tiles was £3k inc labour.
It's a nightmare. We startedcwith a quote for a 3x3m kitchen from a fancy showroom. We knew done they had done a similar size one for £16k.m for a friend's daughter.
First number was £32K. This was laminate counters.After seeing our faces he tried again. We went down a step on doors and it was down to £22.
I think there may have been a touch of pricing based on our postcode.
By chance I met a former colleague who recommended a fitter.
We went with him and Howdens. All in including units, appliances, flooring, tiling, new lighting and a bit of wiring was around £13k. He did it all apart from him getting a gas fitter in for the hob.
Anyone who immediately drops £10k from the first number was never getting the job.
Possible to consider under floor heating at this point?
queried it with fitters and no, itd make the floor too high for the units apparently. we'll just get some decent LVT i think, clickable with the built in underlay.
on that subject ive seen 4mm, 6mm, 8mm and 12mm advertised. AI suggests 6mm would be fine for kitchens, do you agree? floor is relatively flat and doesnt need prepping apparently.
cheers
well, we finally have a kitchen (apart from the floor). back from 2 weeks abroad, the worktop fitters were booked in the day after, and my plumber mate came round after to connect taps/wastes/gas hob, so we're now up and running. looks lovely, its taken way longer than we thought but its great being able to use a proper oven and hob rather than a little camping stove 😀
time to look at finishing it off now, with the floor and internal door. so...... 2 questions please.
1. as per my last message really, regarding the LVT. apparently we need clickable with built-in underlay, (around 30 sq/m at a rough guess) they all pretty much seem to come out at around £25 sq/m although can maybe get it cheaper through my mates account if we go via howdens or MKM. 6mm thickness ok? it'll butt up to a lounge carpet, so doesnt want to be higher than that really.
2. kitchen door. it leads to a utility room which has the back door out to the garden. the back door is clear glaze, so we want frosted for the kitchen door otherwise baddies could see right into our house. my builder mate brought a clear, half- glazed oak door round to fit, but when we said we'd agreed on frosted he said howdens dont do frosted, which appears to be true. the door is a good price, so do we stick or twist? go online to buy what we really want, half glazed and frosted but from an unknown company? or stick with the clear door and apply some of that stick-on glaze, but i imagine that may look a bit tacky. and if online, any recommendations for good companies to deal with?
thanks
We used some of that stick on glaze (from Dunelm) for security for an outbuilding and it came up better than i expected and has worn pretty well too. But for a kitchen I think I would want the real thing.
But for a kitchen I think I would want the real thing.
But for a kitchen I think I would want the real thing.
thanks
Try the sticky stuff. We've been pleased with ours, you just have to cut accurately and a couple mm smaller all round
Try the sticky stuff. We've been pleased with ours, you just have to cut accurately and a couple mm smaller all round
tempting as we already have it here, but it has raised lines on the clear glaze which adds another level of faffery and potential for bubbles. its this one that we have here at the moment.
Wooden worktops.
A few saying theyre quite high maintenance, but do you really need to ?
Sure if its a super high end, that looks like it belongs in a magazine, but if you just leave it 'eu natural' you'll be pretty much ok.
These tops are made similar whats known as 'furniture board' which is small pieces, jointed together and is incredibly stable because of that.
A hot soapy cloth is pretty much all you'd need to keep it clean.
If it has to be I'd go for the wood effect, which from my own kitchen fitting is chipboard, with a plastic top layer thats about 2mm thick, and textured like real wood.
Wooden worktops.
A few saying theyre quite high maintenance, but do you really need to
Mine are looking tatty after 25 years due tome not oiling them enough after stripping them to sand out marks. I wish now I had looked after them better. Gonna need a full strip sand back and re oil
it'll butt up to a lounge carpet, so doesnt want to be higher than that really.
You can get threshers designed for wood on one side and carpet on the other. Eg https://wiltshirewoodflooringsupplies.co.uk/products/wood-to-carpet-solid-oak-reducer-threshold
the door is a good price, so do we stick or twist?
Can you keep the door and replace the glass?
Sticky the external doors instead?
TBH, we've had this done at work plenty of times and the results have been good, you wouldn't really tell. We had it done professionally, though.
it has raised lines on the clear glaze
On both sides?
You can get threshers designed for wood on one side and carpet on the other. Eg
nice one, good to know they exist.
Can you keep the door and replace the glass?
Sticky the external doors instead?
TBH, we've had this done at work plenty of times and the results have been good, you wouldn't really tell. We had it done professionally, though.
we've found a place online thats cheap enough so we're going to replace all 7 doors in the house at once. it was always the plan for a few months time but now that we've seen the frosted glass doors that we like on there we may as well bite the bullet and get them all in a oner.
On both sides?
yes 🙂
cheers
We're just going through the pain of this now. Managed to get a couple of firms to quote - one visited, measured, we popped into their showroom and they gave us a quote (works include taking a couple of walls out, ceiling, plastering etc as well as usual kitchen stuff). The other firm have visited three times, sent round numerous subcontractors for electrics, plumbing, kitchen design, flooring etc - we are still waiting for the actual quote.
Not sure if I should feel confident in the quote from the first company (have used them before and they were good for a small bathroom) or expect a ridiculously high quote from the second one, given all the effort they have already put in.