[Closed] New Kitchen - Advice for keeping the cost down

DIY kitchens is the std response on here I think

Is anyone with a Howdens trade account willing share the % commission they receive for sourcing / fitting a Howdens kitchen?

There's no such thing really. Howdens hove a pretty made up price list which they then offer 'discount' on. each account holder gets a discount rate, not all account holders are the same. Some tradesmen mark up the quote to the customer, some don't.

Kitchen appliances are about the dearest they've ever been at the moment due to import shortages.

DIY kitchens is the std response on here I think

This is fine if you know what you're doing re the design and are happy to put the time in. I've been designing and fitting kitchens for 25 years and it takes me a good long while to get a quote together with everything you're going to need for a like for like price.

Fwiw forgetting the first price wren hit you with.

Howdens couldn't get close on a whole package even through my builder dad's trade account with em......and hes supplied a fair few Howdens kitchen.

But then we had solid wood worktops and and wren supplied appliances on price match -howdens wouldn't

That said I did tell mr wren sales patter that his next price is his one and only shot to seal the deal I'm not playing the Mike brewer game.

Mentioned to fitter we were looking at IKEA -he said we would be fitting it our selves 🙂

It arrived on the day they said it would and fitted easily. Looks good. We happy.

We went with Benchmarx and an independent kitchen fitter who designed the layout as well as fitting. He came up with better ideas than Wickes and the price was much lower too.

Can't stand the pricing model of the trade places. At least with IKEA you know what each part costs. If you want to see the impact of changing something it's easy to see the costs. Decent stuff, too, with a good warranty.

To keep costs down do some of it yourself. Cabinets are pretty easy. Get someone in for the worktop if you aren't handy. Tiling isn't too bad a job. Also see if you can re-use anything. We moved some units into the utility and refitted some cabinets. Also, top tip, don't spend thousands on a tap.

I used magnet last time, good units, pretty much the same as howdens, but their service was shite. I'd go back to howdens or ikea next time.

I wouldn't touch wren cos I canny be arsed with all that everest type gypsy haggling.

Don't tile, fit splashbacks if you wanna keep price down, much easier to do it yourself too.

Echo above re do it all yourself bar the worktop.

Buy all the appliances referb/ex display etc - you’ll save ££££££££s. Fir our refit I really wanted a statement range cooker - something that looked really impressive. I liked the Britannia cookers but they were £3,500+ but I found an ex display one for £1,300 - slightly marked so not perfect but after a month or so using it it looked no different had it been a ‘perfect’ one.

DIY Kitchens were OK two years ago. The 3d builder on the website was finished just afterwards and would have made our lives much easier. Didn't order enough filler pieces though as our joiner used it in more places than I thought!

The units are ok quality but the paint chipped really easily. Would maybe use them again but only with vinyl...

DIY Kitchens & Worktop Express worked a treat for us, kinda like Lego but more culinary.

We didn't rush into it, took our time, used A3 graph paper and probably over obsessed a little.

Fitted myself, a pro would find many faults. Works great for us.

Benchmarks, Howdens etc pricing is an absolute joke, they are likely abusing vulnerable people who walk in and think that the first price is realistic. Their pricing shenanigans is what pushed us to DIY Kitchens.

18 units -( 2 full height and 2 corners) fridge freezer , dishwasher , double oven , upgraded hob , extractor , Belfast sink and 2 x3m of 40mm oak

7 grand

Utility room at IKEA - one tall unit , corner unit ,sink + unit , laminate worktop and 2 rows of shelves 1200 quid. - off back to wren for a quote there.

That said seem some quotes where folk ha e clearly been attempted to be had at wren

I've only done one kitchen (last October) in the last 5 years, but before that I did around 10 a year.
I started using Howdens, but soon went off them. The Staff are all on commission, and will lie to your face to get the sale. I did a small kitchen, I always try to get the sink working on the first day. I had asked on the Friday if it was all in stock, they said yes, it would be with me on the Monday morning. It all arrived, but with no worktops. They arrived 2 weeks later. I was livid.
I gave them another chance to do a larger one. I told them the units must be below £12k, there was no negotiation about it, that was the most the customer would pay. The quote I got back was £15k. I never rang them back. They rang me after a week, and siad do I want to go ahead, I told them no, as they had quoted more then they coudl afford, and they then said,
'well, we'll see if we can get it down a bit', and they did. They were trying it on, as they will get more commission. I never went into the branch again.

Magnets - a total change, honest, give the best price first time, if it isnt in stock in their branch, they get it delivered from another branch. Good units, mostly in stock when you want it, and, decent prices. This is the trade side of Magnets, the showroom side is more expensive, so always use the trade side (anyone can use it.)

Yes, get appliances from wherever is cheapest. Built in units are fine if they are dented - they have a door over the outer skin, so dents cannot be seen. Tiles - Topps etc will do the trade price if you push them, the discount at Topps is pretty good. 30% last time I used them. Taps and sinks, again, cheapest online, as the kitchen suppliers rarely compete on these apart from the cheapest basic ones.
To save a bit of labour cost, it is easy to rip the old kitchen out yourself. I can do one on my own, including tiles in a morning easy. It helps to get it back in quickly too, get the fitter to have the stuff delivered beforehand, then he can start fitting it at 8am on the Monday morning. Rubbish - there will be loads of it. Get a skip in before. It will be full. It is very hard to take a full kitchen to the local tip, 6 or 7 trips in a large car.

Or Freecycle the old kitchen. Someone might want it, even for a workshop if the units are rough, and save on a skip

It's worth the skip not to have to deal with the can you deliver it ? Can you keep it for a month pish on Freecycle

More so it's considerably easier to remove a kitchen if it doesn't have to come out intact

Even with a trailer we still went with skip as running back and forth to the tip eats into your time or your double handling

I had a 6*4 trailer and pickup tub full of flattened and compacted cardboard and polystyrene to the recycling center as well .

Our experience with Howdens was great. It helps that our builder who was a mate gave them permission to share his trade prices with us (70% off list). Buy in March or October as that's their sale periods.
The designer they sent did an excellent job and incorporated all of our suggestions, was very patient, we took over a year from designing the kitchen to buying it as the builders were involved in a big project, and she put up with lots of small tweaks between her first design and what we ended up with.
We sourced our granite worktops ourselves and our appliances came from John Lewis in their clearance. Cheaper than AO.
The thing that stretched our budget was the electricians. We ended up having to have a new fuse box and the whole house bought up to the latest standards, which put 5k on the total cost. Get an electrical survey done before you start so you know what you are in for.

More so it’s considerably easier to remove a kitchen if it doesn’t have to come out intact

Yes, but that's really wasteful when it doesn't have to go to landfill. It's is harder to take it out intact bit not exactly difficult.

I think these home improvement shows have a lot to answer for. They always dive straight in with the sledgehammer. At least try a screwdriver first.

That said seem some quotes where folk ha e clearly been attempted to be had at wren

This is the nub, companies like this that try to chance their arm with robbing folk on the first price are to be avoided.

Double post

No one said a sledge hammer. Rarely the best way at all. But if your grannying it it takes longer and when it comes to trades time is money

Oh and your skip isn't going to land fill if it is find a company that is regulated.

This is the nub, companies like this that try to chance their arm with robbing folk on the first price are to be avoided.

Indeed but since that rules out Howdens and magnet as well you are left with slim.picking s....

I've never had that issue with howdens, or magnet, used both. My joiner got me the price, I paid it, as they're both trade suppliers I assumed that was how it worked.

This 'magic calculator' approach to sales should be banned, if indeed howden and magnet also do it.

In answer to the OP, you'll notice no difference in 18 or 22mm panels btw.

Don't bugger about with fiddly fixing kits for base units, get yourself some decent clamps, screw base units together, level, then batten to the wall, both easier and better.

We had a Homebase kitchen and the salesperson done the design, end panels everywhere! The price of them alone was a lot and actually where we did need them (either side of oven etc) I just cut them in half as it was only the front showing. Saved a fair bit doing that iirc

Our builder pointed us in the direction of Howdens - he's built a lot of houses over the years with their kitchens. Firstly, they came up with a design without any consultation. We told them we had a budget and we wanted to stick to it - they were very reluctant to give us a price and only eventually they gave us one 50% over our budget. Then they didn't want to send us samples of the doors etc. Even the builder was a bit annoyed. Their prices for things like soft close hinges etc are ridiculous - £30/cabinet.

We went onto DIY Kitchens - they have bigger choice of width and heights of cabinets so we got a better design / less filler panels at the ends and top. We got it exactly on budget and then 10% off. Their worktops are expensive, so we're going Worktop Express solid laminate (like quartz). Appliances will be from AO.

Mentioned to fitter we were looking at IKEA -he said we would be fitting it our selves 🙂

I wouldn't trust any kitchen fitter who couldn't fit an IKEA kitchen, doesn't say a lot for their ability

Our builder didn’t want to fit our ikea kitchen, so I did it myself. Seems to me that the trades don’t like it when the design isn’t the same as everything else, such as ikea having plinths 80mm high instead of the usual 150mm high. He whinged about that, even though it made no real difference to him, but it means that we get 70mm more cabinet height.

There is nothing wrong with ikea stuff, and the amount of different cabinet sizes, drawers and accessories available is great. All soft close Blum fittings as standard too. One big advantage is that if you want an extra piece, you can just go to your local store and get one straight away, and know the price you will be paying

I wouldn’t trust any kitchen fitter who couldn’t fit an IKEA kitchen, doesn’t say a lot for their ability

Huge difference between couldn't and wouldn't.

This was the latter.

Ikea pricing is too transparent for some tradesmen. With howdens, they effectively become the retailer that you have to deal with - it’s only reasonable that they should charge a fee / add a markup for that activity.

I’ve fitted a few IKEA kitchens to past houses and they’ve been fine. DIY kitchens in the current house 2 years ago and I’ve just done the utility room with a different style but also from Diy kitchens. I highly rate them. Being delivered fully assembled saves a load of time but you do need space to move them around

To answer the original question tho....

Don’t buy fancy additions like pull out corner units, curved doors etc and don’t spec more drawers than you need

Oak worktops are surprisingly cheap and as they’re easier to fit may be more DIY friendly than laminate

Sink, taps, lighting etc - eBay and Facebook market can turn up some bargains

A turnkey kitchen will be quicker and easier but you can expect to pay well over the odds for the service

IKEA website used to have a fancy 3d design tool you could use which was great. Hopefully still there but it was 7-8 years ago when I last used it.

I used Howdens for my last one. Had them back 3 times to jig design as I changed my mind over what I wanted. Took various doors to try colours before picking final choice. Buy the doors then take them back few days later for full refund. I've got no tiles just got a glass splashback behind the cooker. I did use a mates account to order it and get the price. I was a bit ERM,UMM not sure through email and got £500 knocked off the price, real discount or not who knows. Overall very happy with the whole experience of dealing with them. May just depend on the staff in the local branch which is the case in most places.

No one said a sledge hammer. Rarely the best way at all. But if your grannying it it takes longer and when it comes to trades time is money

I showed my other half the "pull it out drop it on a corner technique" I am now not allowed to do the wrecking as that's her job. Gutted.

We went DIY kitchens a couple of years ago. It's been great. We got the worktops from worktop express.

I couldn't stand the Wren salesman, I've never had such a hard sell on anything in my entire life. Wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

I’ve done three IKEA kitchens now. Dead simple to spec, easy to assemble and install if you can operate a spirit level. All fittings are Blum.

common compliant is no void for routing services etc, got round this on last install by buying deeper worktops from worktop express and spacing out

If you’ve got the space, the deeper worktops make sinks/hobs etc loads less crowded.

Howdens...it’s only reasonable that they should charge a fee / add a markup for that activity

Bull$hit - I'm the buyer, my builder is charging me nothing for fitting the kitchen because he doesn't want the ball-ache of dealing with them and I'm paying hundreds of thousands for him to build me a whole house - the kitchen is only 2% of the total. Howden's opaque pricing allows unscrupulous tradesmen to screw people over and pi$$es in the pot for everyone.

Design tool is still on Ikea site - you're just limited by their sizes of cabinets but a good place to start if you're not happy with squared paper. I've heard good things about Ikea - only issue is no back to cabinets to hide services etc.

If you head over to the self-build forum you'll get a wide range of experiences.

I wouldn’t trust any kitchen fitter who couldn’t fit an IKEA kitchen, doesn’t say a lot for their ability

That's exactly what our joiner said when we told them about the other guy who said he wouldn't fit one.

FWIW we went down the DIY Kitchens/Worktop Express (or Direct, either or) route. We were happy enough and it still looks as fresh as the day it went in (solid wood work top needs reoiling but thats just maintenance). Units are shaker solid wood and paint is good.

Howdens quoted for the same and was hilarously overpriced, we did an overnight to Pontefract to see the DIY showroom and that barely scratched the difference. I would happily have gone for IKEA but the missus changed her mind on the style she wanted.

Bull$hit – I’m the buyer
Howdens won't deal direct with the great unwashed. If you have an issue with it, whoever has the account with which it was bought will have to deal Howdens.

That’s exactly what our joiner said when we told them about the other guy who said he wouldn’t fit one.

I guess some people just want the work more than others.

My fitter is family and his reason was. "I'm.not cocking about with that flat pack stuff " .....and to be fair he had a point because I wasn't ****ing around with it either. Kitchen arrived Thursday and was fully fitted and functional mostly by Sat night and the spark came and did final fix and sign off on Monday.

As I said before time=money for trades.

Also, top tip, don’t spend thousands on a tap.

Good advice... worked on a house refurb a couple of years ago, client spent £9k on taps, this is in a 3 bed semi! One of the mixer taps was £4000. £4000! Whole build was several months (we took the whole back of the house off!), the taps being hand crafted by artisan craftsmen on the other side of the world were ordered well in advance. Long story short they were months late and arrived at the last minute, and the £4000 tap was completely wrong. The plumber installing said just pop round and get them to knock a new one up... turns out the high end designer company got them made 1/2 mile away, popped round and got the correct taps put together in less than 24hrs. those £4000 taps cost £345

For ours we had Howdens round to do the flash CAD stuff they do to show you what it will all look like, while somehow being unable to tell you even roughly what it will cost - "I'll take these away and get back to you with the price". I had no idea what kitchens cost so I was amazed when it all apparently added up to 7 or 8k. The builder then took the artist impressions and parts list to Magnet, I think they said they could do it for 4k, we then went back and forth a couple more times and I think ended up paying 2.4k from Howdens, the kicker being we had to accept delivery that week so we had a full kitchen stacked up in our spare room for a fortnight which wasnt ideal. Clearance items I guess.

I'm more than happy with the kitchen, no issues, nicest kitchen I've ever had, I think it helped that we weren't really fussed about the details and would have been happy with either company and their closest match to the ask.

Wren appear to make their own cabinets as do Howdens that used to be called MFI,magnet /wickes and Benchmarx all use the same manufacturer as far as i can remember. Band Q only do flat pack and buying the stuff seperate from them soon adds up, like no hinges with doors etc.

At the end of the day its all about what you expect for a selection of cupboards and a shinny bit of plastic covered chipboard a and a fancy sink to fill and empty the kettle from.

Quality of the drawers make a huge difference as im called out quite often to fix them, plinths can just be 6 inch contiboard not the high priced plinths they all offer, under cabinet lights a waste of cash as are built in appliances, no doors required, and do you really need a corniche on the top just holds the drease and is only seen by the painter or sparky.

Howdens that used to be called MFI

Not quite, MFI were the public side, howdens was trade, same business. MFI came flatpacked, howdens always been pre built.

MFI carcasses were thinner too.

Make sure you know where services are going, moving services, or not having sufficient space for services can take a lot of time to rectify/ increasing costs.

Don’t discount a solid work top - not that much more than a laminate.

Get a good quality heavy carcass.

I set myself a challenge of a decent spec for 7k. Granite work surfaces, boiling water tap, oak breakfast bar, steam oven, regular oven and built in microwave, induction hob. All neff. Twin dish washers.

The units are IKEA shiny dolphin grey. They are encased / detailed with an oak trim made of bullnose skirting.

The granite was secondhand easy enough to work onsite yourself. Like the man says above graded appliances. Other than that it’s prep and time.

I've followed many kitchen threads on STW and did mine in lockdown 1. DIY kitchens were offering 10% off which made it very attractive. I would suggest going to their showroom to see the range but they do a refundable door and carcass sample service sent to your home. I used the online service before I went and asked for assistance and changes when I was in the showroom.

Worktop express was a good shout and a word of warning for anyone thinking about curved end cabinets is that it was a nightmare finding a laminate supplier to cut and supply with a radius curve. In retrospect I would have gone for a stone top and spent the money and saved time and hassle. I had a solid worktop before but found the oiling and maintenance a pain.

I would suggest getting ready assembled carcasses as you can install these prior to worktop fitter and save time and money. Level the bottom ones and hand the wall ones. I did ended up ordering more than I needed , boards and shelves which didnt fit ( forgot to take into account of pipework in the corner). All in all still cheaper than the wren complete fit quote by 50%. 1-2 days labour for kitchen fitter and a gas engineer to fit and certify the hob.

We are talking to a local independent, a local tradesman who uses Howdens and for comparison we have spoken to Wren (not impressed so far).

If you like the tradesmen use who they prefer, if it is Howdens, do challenge them on the price or wait till March or October for their sales.

I have a buddy who fits kitchens, he wont touch B&Q or Ikea, its not so much the quality but more the ease of sorting things, we have a local howdens so missing or damaged things can be swapped or collected in 5/10mins as they hold a good stock, the others arent local and are an hour round trip for them to prob not have the part and need to order it.

How can you help keep the cost down, ripping out the old one yourself will save few hours to a day so bring down costs, stripping the walls or tiles etc

I have a buddy who fits kitchens, he wont touch B&Q or Ikea, its not so much the quality but more the ease of sorting things, we have a local howdens so missing or damaged things can be swapped or collected in 5/10mins as they hold a good stock, the others arent local and are an hour round trip for them to prob not have the part and need to order it.

That's a good point in terms of tradesmen, my mate bought a kitchen form B and Q and he was over 6 months to get a specific panel replaced, it came damaged, then again, then they sent a storm damaged one, and so on, it was unbelievable.

I'd imagine Ikea will have far betetr stock, but it's a PITA if they're not local.

we just had a Wren kitchen fitted. once we established the final price but before signing the deal we went and found cheaper prices for all the appliances and the granite. saved loads. the rest of it is on 0% tick!

A big way of keeping the cost down is to do all the ripping out yourself. Takes no skill, just time. Give the tradesman as easy a job as possible.

We used a local joiner and got our kitchen from Ikea last year. The Ikea design service was excellent and you could see immediately how much it would cost. Easy to swap bits out, add fancy bits if desired.

I assembled all the flat pack which was a long and monotonous task but saved paying the joiners rates for the hours it took. When he came to fit it he had no complaints about Ikea.

Our worktops are from worktop express and taps from somewhere else for cheaper than the similar Ikea offering.

If doing it again I’d probably do the same again.

I had to move a wren kitchen and it was back breaking - the units weighed an absolute ton compared to the comparable units from Howdens. They seemed on cursory inspection to be much better made as well.

I’ve heard good things about Ikea – only issue is no back to cabinets to hide services etc.

How many folk actually need to hide anything? And if it's just the plumbing under the sink, better to have it on display so you can get to it.

And if needed, a false 'wall/frame' behind one run is a minor issue and just get a deeper work top to reduce down. Because we've an AGA and they sit further out than normal cabinets, I put a frame behind one lot of cabinets and cut-down a 900mm deep worktop.

When we built my Mum's place we got in an IKEA kitchen and the builder complained. Told him to RTFM and showed him the Utility Room (8*8) I'd done - and said if I can do it, surely you a trained man can do it 🙂

Told him to RTFM and showed him the Utility Room (8*8) I’d done – and said if I can do it, surely you a trained man can do it 🙂

I'm sure he loved that when the bill came round /kippers under the floor boards . Or that's wasn't at all how the conversation went down.

Wren appear to make their own cabinets as do Howdens that used to be called MFI,magnet /wickes and Benchmarx all use the same manufacturer as far as i can remember. Band Q only do flat pack and buying the stuff seperate from them soon adds up, like no hinges with doors etc.

At the end of the day its all about what you expect for a selection of cupboards and a shinny bit of plastic covered chipboard a and a fancy sink to fill and empty the kettle from.

Quality of the drawers make a huge difference as im called out quite often to fix them, plinths can just be 6 inch contiboard not the high priced plinths they all offer, under cabinet lights a waste of cash as are built in appliances, no doors required, and do you really need a corniche on the top just holds the drease and is only seen by the painter or sparky.

This is all wrong!

Howdens is not MFI, it was setup by 2 of the workers who left MFI when they started getting greedy basically and messing around with everything. Hiwdesn was started with the premise to be trade only from the start.

B and q sell both flat pack or pre built, you can request either, the higher end range Cooke and Lewis only available as pre built..

I use my under cupboard lights all the time at home and will only fit my customers proper functioning lights in my builds.

Integrated appliances are a pain to fit, but have the upside of looking ten fold better when done properly.

Ikea stuff is fine, but I've got to say the older Faktum drawers were better quality / stronger / easier to adjust the alignment than the current Metod ones.

They also seem to hold much less store stock - I think trying to push people to order for delivery rather than take home in a van on the same day.

Whatever you get, taller 900mm or more wall cabinets taken right to the ceiling gain a lot of storage space for very little extra cost. And avoids a dust, grease and clutter collecting space on top of units. Fit them about 20mm shy of the ceiling and fill / seal the gap with an infill piece to make sure the doors don't rub any ceiling undulations.

IKEA here. 5 years on it looks as good as new. IKEA cupboards are bigger than most too. Hinges, drawer runners etc are all Blum the same as top end kitchens.

does that mean you could not source your own doors for ikea carcasses?

I’m sure he loved that when the bill came round /kippers under the floor boards . Or that’s wasn’t at all how the conversation went down.

AKA his boss told him to stop ****ing moaning and bend his back 🙂

We are having a Wren kitchen installed as we speak. We did the following to save cost:

a) Sold the old kitchen on ebay. Someone came and took it away for us and paid us for the privilege, rather than us paying the builder.
b) Reused our oven and microwave as they are in good condition. We got them professionally cleaned so they looked like new.
c) Purchased a worktop locally, half the price from a comparable worktop from Wren
d) Sourced our own handles, tap and sink, saved a few hundred quid that way too.
e) obviously didn't pay Wren to install the kitchen.

Wren have been great so far. They sent us an end panel free of charge within a week of us asking, as we had altered our design slightly upon installation. Magnet were more than double the cost and failed to read our emails, plans, requirements before our visit. A few other local kitchen suppliers you see in the high street couldn't match Wren either.