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In my view, Apple have completely missed the point of the SE.
Apple spends $16bn a year on Research and Development. I'm sorry to say, they just don't make a mobile for you personal preferences because their aren't enough like-minded buyers for a current gen 4" screen phone.
It's a shame, it's pretty obvious that looked after smart-phones can last a long time, very few make their 5th birthday before they're scraped. It must be a horrible waste of resources.
It's just a phone, chaps.
It’s just a phone, chaps.
Except, these days it's not. Rightly or wrongly, like it or not, it's one of the most significant tools in most folks lives, and deserves a bit of thought.
I think for me it would be tough to go back now having had a full panel. But for people coming from older iPhones it will not be an issue.
I tend to hold my phone such that the base of my thumb is over the front corner, stopping it falling backwards, so the non-sensitive band at the bottom seems kind of essential for me. The top, meh.
All they have done is release a cheaper iphone 8. When will they get it, that the SE is great because it is not great big.
Thing is, though, that's still kind of true. The SE 2 is the smallest in the range. By contemporary standards across the board, it's a small phone. It's bigger than the SE but, like it or not, the world has moved on and largely decided it likes bigger phones. And it still follows a key trait of the original SE in that it puts the latest internals into an older (and smaller) body, which in theory at least means they're doing less work by powering fewer screen pixels and fewer cameras, which should be good for battery life (which is why I was a little surprised that they only quote the same life as the 7/8).
Fanbois will be fanbois.
Or it's just that other things outweigh the less-than-ideal battery life? I'm not sure I'm a fanboi given that I've lived with Android, Windows and iOS for multiple years each, but it'd take a lot more than good battery life and a smaller bezel to drag me back to Android. Like Flash says, it's just a phone: they all have pros and cons and if someone finds value in different things to you that doesn't mean they're irrational 🙂
As a secondary note, also, the poppy out camera lens also annoys me on non SE phones. I like to lie my phone down on a flat surface, screen side up. The protruding camera make me feel uncomfortable doing this.
I'm always amazed that anyone can use a modern phone without a case. I find them far too thin and slippery to be able to hold (not to mention fragile when you inevitably drop them); the 4/5/SE design was certainly one of the better ones in this respect with its smaller size and angular edges, but even that was markedly improved by a small case.
Glad I didn't wait for this and bought an 11 back before Xmas. It's exactly what has been predicted since then.
The things I really like about the 11 are FaceID, a battery that will get easily get through a day without needing charging, and a screen that makes full use the size of the phone. They've not fixed any of those with the new SE
most of the time it's fine but the 11 still feels big and heavy (eg it's really too large to stick in an armband for running)
Well, the 11 Pro has all the good stuff of the 11 plus the good stuff of the smaller(ish) size, so it's the best of both worlds.
But then it costs roughly the same as an 11 plus an SE, so it's also the price of both worlds 🙂
Any XS deals around for the wife?
It’s a shame, it’s pretty obvious that looked after smart-phones can last a long time, very few make their 5th birthday before they’re scraped. It must be a horrible waste of resources.
100% agree. I used to be an upgrader, never again, it's a ridiculous situation. My S7 is over 5 years old now, and still going fine.
Looks perfect for me. I have been using an SE for years now and have kept it for size while doing everything it needs to. I just don't need a bigger phone and whil there may be better value Android phones around I prefer the look and feel of iOS.
I fancy a new phone and my current contract is up in a few weeks so perfect timing.
Now do I go for the bold red for a complete change or stick to safer black or white...
I tend to keep a phone for around 3 years and then pass it down to one of the children who keep it for another couple of years till the battery is well and truly borked. My S7 Edge being used by one of my kids is at least 5 years old and shows no sign of battery degradation (or not much anyway) - I was using it the other day as its got a SP02 monitor on it and I thought what a nice phone it still was.
Completely unrelated but my BIL has an Iphone 4 still, and has the biggest hands I've seen in my life. The tip of his index finger is the size of my big toe, always makes me laugh watching him stabbing out a text message on that tiny phone.
Anyway, I'm generally in the Droid camp, but a small dual sim phone in Apple hardware (Samsung etc feel delicate and vulnerable) would be perfect for me. Moreso if you could somehow flash an Android ROM to it...
Anyway, I’m generally in the Droid camp
I don't think there is much to choose between the two "camps" these days. 90% of the time I am using the phone I'm in some kind an app anyway.
For me it's just an "ecosystem" (spit!) thing. I have iPads, Apple TV, my wife, kids, my parents and in-laws all have iPhones - so it is just easier for me to follow the herd. If everything I had was droid then I'd stick with that.
Lots of people complaining that their many years old phone has poor battery life. New batteries are easily installed and affordable: my highstreet has several stores that (last month) would install a brand new battery in an hour for £60. If your phone works apart from the battery... get a new one.
Another person waiting impatiently for this here too. Currently using a 6S on its second screen and due a third battery, so we'll get it a new battery then pass it down to my son for when he starts secondary school and I'll get the new SE.
Everyone objecting to the specs needs to remember that the SE line is basically the cheapest iPhone, so it's basically the current processor (so all the models now share CPU family) in a case the factories are capable of churning out at speed (because it's basically a iPhone 8). Exactly the same way the original SE was a refreshed iPhone 5S.
Apple spends $16bn a year on Research and Development. I’m sorry to say, they just don’t make a mobile for you personal preferences because their aren’t enough like-minded buyers for a current gen 4″ screen phone.
They haven't asked all the current 5SE users have they? There's a reason we're still using these outdated and tiny phones when there's so much choice out there.
Two key items are missing from the camera for me.
Despite having the super fast and modern A13 chip, the phone is only using that chip for HDR and portrait mode. Its missing the more advanced use of the chip for:
- Deep fusion
- Night sight/mode
Even though it should have the processing power for both, they have been omitted
They haven’t asked all the current 5SE users have they? There’s a reason we’re still using these outdated and tiny phones when there’s so much choice out there.
There are multiple reasons, and when you take the consumer base as a whole I suspect that the largest of those, much more than physical size, is the price of the handset.
It would cost more to re-tool all the production lines for a discontinued handset than to keep the iPhone 8 tooling running, it would cost more—and maybe be impossible—to put the new internals into the old chassis, and it would cost even more to start from a clean slate and design a 5S-sized unit to take 2019's internals.
I suspect they've asked plenty of SE users. It's just that it's a case of: compact size, current technology, low price, pick two. There's no point using old technology that will become obsolete as soon as it's released, so it's a straight fight between cost and size: you either build a slightly larger phone or you build a small phone that can only compete on size and not price, which means the market for it will be tiny (and hence the price will need to be higher still), because most people who like small phones aren't big spenders.
Kryton57
The other contender would be a Huawei Mi 9t Pro which at £400 beats both technically, except isn’t waterproof and is a little bloated at stock and is brighter – no good for the pocket of a bike jacket.
The Pixel 4a is rumoured to be out in the next month or so & probably the same price as the Pixel 3a was on release - £399. It's gone a bit quiet on the release date though.
The 3a is currently reduced to £299, which is an amazing deal. I'm currently weighing up whether to save some money & get the 3a, or but the 4a on release.
My current phone (Lenovo P2) is over 3yrs old & still works OK, but I broke the screen at Christmas (proper unusable smashed) and the replacement I fitted isn't original - it doesn't function as well as the original with lots of 'false presses' and the colours are all over the place. Bloody annoying as it's a great phone - cost me £200 3 years ago, I still get easily 2 days out of the battery & it's not really slowed down noticeably. Stupid butterfingers.
I suspect they’ve asked plenty of SE users. It’s just that it’s a case of: compact size, current technology, low price, pick two. There’s no point using old technology that will become obsolete as soon as it’s released, so it’s a straight fight between cost and size: you either build a slightly larger phone or you build a small phone that can only compete on size and not price, which means the market for it will be tiny (and hence the price will need to be higher still), because most people who like small phones aren’t big spenders.
Think this sums it up brilliantly.
Just ordered a "refurbished" (hopefully customer return) XS from Argos Outlet for the wife. She doesn't want a phone as big as an XS but wants something with better battery life than "about the same as the 8".
So battery life > size.
Does anyone know of anywhere that has a good selection of old SE cases? Need a new one for mine as part of the handing over to the missus ceremony, my go to ate OtterBox who only have normal black at the moment
Haven’t had an iPhone since my 5S, got rid due to to the battery being a bag of shite, looks like not much has changed then, two charges a day and still buying more?
Much has changed but you missed it while you were sneering.
Even though it should have the processing power for both, they have been omitted
Does it have the camera hardware for either?
How much gb does iOS take off the 64gb version.
On my old 16gb iPhone it took half the space so in reality it ended up 8b.
Wow, you must have struggle with just 8b 🙂
The official size of iOS 13 is 2.2GB. If you're moving from an older iOS it takes about 5GB space to install it.
Does anyone know of anywhere that has a good selection of old SE cases?
Loads on Amazon and eBay. This is the one I use, it's a nice secure grip and seems resistant to impact, and doesn't interfere with a toughened glass screen protector.
Does it have the camera hardware for either?
Doubt it. It very much implies that the SE doesn't take its camera unit from the 11/11 Pro. The question is whether it recycles the one from the 8, or takes a newer one, probably from the XR (if that even uses a different sensor to the 8). I'm guessing the former.
The 8 didn't seem to be a noticeable improvement over the 7 so unless the A13 chip is really bringing a lot to the party then I'm not super excited about the SE's camera. Which is a shame: I'd been hoping for a step up in at least low light performance compared to my 7 (which is a big step up from the original SE). Maybe there is… still wavering over the pre-order button…
re the camera, per Daring Fireball
The new SE betters the iPhone 8 with a main camera that is physically — sensor and lens — equivalent to that of the iPhone XR. But in practice the SE should be more capable than the XR as a camera system because of the A13 imaging pipeline (compared to the XR’s A12). This is evident from the fact that the new SE supports Portrait mode features the XR does not — the background-masking “stage light” and “high-key light” effects.
There are reviews appearing now, and the EXIF data from sample photos tells us about the sensor (TechRadar have some original photos to download).
The focal length is the giveaway (because the pixel count and f-number are the same): the iPhone 7 and 8 had a focal length of 3.99mm and the XR had 4.25mm. The SE's focal length is 3.99mm, so it would seem that it's the unit from the 8.
Ach… to be fair, reviews seem fairly positive about the output from the camera/CPU combo, but we're basically looking at an iPhone 8 with an A13 chip (seemingly without bringing any discernible battery life gains) and no other upgrades of note.
Hmm.
Edit: though I see that Daring Fireball says "that sensor (but not the lens) is apparently the same as that in the iPhone XR"—but I wonder what's hiding behind the "apparently". Inside information? Mere assumption?
Antutu benchmarks seem to suggest the fancy chip is underclocked to preserve battery life.
Mm, though since Apple claims the same battery life as the 8, any underclocking is presumably to offset the extra oomph it brings to photography etc rather than to give longer life per se. And beyond that it's a total non-issue: anyone in the market for an SE won't be bothered in the slightest by a marginal loss of outright performance over an 11 Pro.
The aquaphobic build of my current SE is one of only two things I don’t like.
The other being battery health.
I use a shock-resistant case with rubber port seals and crystal screen protector. Also replace the battery with a fresh one (which for the old SE is a simple DIY process)
Is there a link to a webpage you've used which makes that process idiot-proof? We've got two SEs in the house with dying batteries…
I too would like to find out about battery replacement.
There's nothing wrong with ours, other than double charging each day and random 80% to flat battery on any day under 5*c....
There are good YouTube videos for battery replacement, and you can get wee tool kits from the likes of eBay/Amazon. The main issue is finding a reputable battery supplier.
The job itself isn’t bad as long as you’re gentle and take your time. Understanding of just how fragile little flexis can be helps too!
I really like my SE, I don't want a huge slippery phone. Like mboy, I don't need to watch 4K videos, I want something that does calls and emails and messages and internet and things for a long time and fits inside a shockproof case and doesn't need charging more than once a day (or once every couple of days, ideally).
But my current SE is starting to feel like it's about to be left behind by iOS, and then it's only a matter of time before useful apps start deciding it's a security risk (mobile banking app, etc) and stop working. So it feels like time for an upgrade.
@Bez, ifixit.com are superb for providing free guides for taking apart and replacing all kinds of devices, as well as selling the spare parts for some (although other, possibly less reputable, parts will be cheaper elsewhere) and selling some really useful toolkits. I've replaced a few batteries in a few phones over the last ten years or so and their guides are excellent, including tips like where to heat things up with a warm pad to make glued bits easier to pull apart, and very clear photos.
Referring to my OP I'm now the owner of an S10e, and with regard to the points made here I'm very happy I've made the right choice.
Its smaller that I expected - about 3mm taller yet 1mm thinner than my work iphone8 - and lighter that I expected but with a powerful spec, large & expandable storage. The display is large and very awesome. When you place that spec against the SE at £469 the S10e is marginally better throughout, and massively better from on the screen perspective. IMO unless you're determined to stick with iOS, get the SE10.
From a battery perspective I would expect a small reduction in a week or so as it learns/copes with my average use, but its been off a charger since 08:30 (now 12:00), has been used for interbanking, WhatsApp and instagram and is sitting at 94%.
Has anyone got their hands on one of these?
Still hovering over the buy button and want opinions especially from android users who have switched.
There don't really seem to be any benefits over an iPhone 8 so I am sticking to my old SE until it breaks or get past the point of not getting updates anymore. I will then just buy an A+ condition iPhone 8 for £200
@bez I don't doubt that, and I pay scant regard to benchmarks in any case. But every PR piece for the SE trumpets the "fastest processor" line when that's far from the whole story.
Mine got delivered this morning, it's replacing an old SE where the TouchID no longer works on it.
It doesn't seem much bigger than the the SE it's replacing though I'm not planning to set it up until the case/screen protector get delivered on Monday.
Typing this from my new SE. As mentioned earlier in the thread, this is replacing the old SE. Only had it running for an hour or so but I like it. Using with a Speck Presidio Pro case. Used to love a Speck pixelskin case I used to have and this is similar.
The handover from the old phone to the new one was amazingly simple. This has probably been a thing for a while but it was news to me - just needed to have the old phone in range of the new one and everything just sync’d over in about 20 mins seamlessly.
Felt a bit big at first but getting used to it already. Seems quick. Camera probably the most noticeable other improvement. Seems waaaaay better. Portrait mode takes some lovely pics of the kids. Will obviously need more time with it but first impressions good.
because most people who like small phones aren’t big spenders.
You've met mrs_oab then.
Well, I caved. Toyed with the free BeatsX offer at Three, but Quidco popped up with 5% cashback at Currys and then I remembered I get 8% off Currys vouchers via a work scheme, so I've bagged a 128GB one for roughly the list price of a 64. Won't be an exciting step up from my 7 but it'll last longer, I can keep my Moment cases and fisheye lens, and it'll be nice to have a box-fresh phone for once.
And if I can manage to change the batteries myself on our old SEs then that saves me about £70 over what I was planning to spend on those.
Re iPhone battery replacement and @mashr - can you recommend a reputable battery supplier please? Seem to be loads of kits on Amazon and hard got tell what’s good and what’s not..
Thanks!