[Closed] new driving fines thingy

It's a tiny wee stumble in the right direction, but like everything else that the government thinks up it has huge flaws in it and is full of holes.

I'm never comfortable with instant justice.

I like the idea as it will save police time - however its not the punishment that matters here - its the chance of being caught which remains very low. I want to see much tougher enforcement of motoring law - zero tolerance

Edit - most car drivers break the law a dozen times a journey - but get caught once ever few years. Speeding, overtaking inappropriately, illegal parking, lack of indicators, tailgating etc etc

I'm not so sure it's a good idea personally - I mean in principle it is, there's dozens of people each day that I see that would get fined, but a) someone has to enforce it and b) it's going to be very subjective - it's not like "were you or were you not on the phone, check the records" or "were you speeding, check the laser?". "Were you driving a little too close to the person in front of you...check the....oh, hang on".

The whole problem with [s]bullying[/s] FPNs is there's no way to appeal without risking a much heavier toll. If the system were fair it would not risk you getting a higher fine just so you could present your case to a third party for a decision, instead they use the threat of twice the penalty unless you keep quiet and not question the officers.

I want to see much tougher enforcement of motoring law - zero tolerance

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/great-roads-you-have-to-drive#post-2534085 ]Like speeding, eh, TJ? ;-)[/url]

Edit - most car drivers break the law a dozen times a journey

😉

Mandatory retesting every 5 years would be a much fairer policy.

while it might be a good idea in theory to cut down paperwork for the police for the ones they catch, it won't stop those idiots that talk on their mobile, agressivley undertake, tailgate etc etc. every day I see an example of these offences occuring and I have never seen a traffic cop (or other police car) anywhere near when it occurs.

@CaptainFlashheart 8)

Especially helmet denyrs... 😆

I've started [s]tail gating[/s] slip streaming people to save fuel.. 🙂

most car drivers road users, and that includes motorbike riders, break [s]the law[/s] the highway code a dozen times a journey

Double Edit

I have never seen a traffic cop (or other police car) anywhere near when it occurs

EDIT: Good point hillclimber 🙂

TJ did say "used to be". Try sticking to the point flashy rather than giving yourself an erection by spotting a potential flaw in TeeJ's post.

Are people really driving that badly?

163,554 road accidents involving injury of which 21,997 involved serious injury and 2,200 deaths (2009) suggests we are.

As mentioned before, it all depends on the Feds being in the right place at the right time.

S'pose the feds will become selffunding after a couple of weeks. 😀

Agreed with what Surroundedby Zulu's said.

jon out of how many journeys though? Objectively.. those numbers really aren't significant.

Agreed - but at least the ones that DO get caught really must deserve it because they really couldn't be concentrating if they don't spot the police car.

Actually I disagree on that - generally when concentrating on driving fast (not usually on public roads) I've no idea what the car is, it could have pink ears on - I'm concentrating on car control and traffic movements, the cars just become an object without colour or much more than a basic shape in my mind. If I was able to spot and recant the colours and types of cars I'd not be concentrating enough to drive quickly safely.

So commiting a crime in the past is OK then is it? 😉

A thought - if it were easier to hand out fines, would the police do it more often?

So commiting a crime in the past is OK then is it?

Still struggling to stick to the point. How hard is it flashy?

No doubt the 'war on the motorist/what about cyclists' lines will be trotted out again.

Also on the radio this morning was Lord Robertson, chairman of the Commission for Global Road Safety.

The exchange went something like:

[i]"Lord Robertson, some would point out that your commission is funded and run by automobile clubs and the motor industry and focuses purely on getting pedestrians and cyclists off the roads, rather than getting people out of cars."

"Well it's the pedestrians that are getting killed - not the people in cars..."[/i]

👿

Aaaargh! I'm going to guess that the pedestrians aren't being killed by crashing into each other.

They'll get the Highway bods to do it, PCSO's or Dinner Ladies or sum such cobblers.

You won't see any more Traffic Cops but you will see more fines. How does that work then?

Mandatory retesting every 5 years would be a much fairer policy.

I don't believe this will work. People get in to bad habits, but can easily behave under exam conditions. Re-testing after any conviction is a good idea. Why penalise good drivers?

coffeeking - Member
Agreed - but at least the ones that DO get caught really must deserve it because they really couldn't be concentrating if they don't spot the police car.
Actually I disagree on that - generally when concentrating on driving fast (not usually on public roads) I've no idea what the car is, it could have pink ears on - I'm concentrating on car control and traffic movements, the cars just become an object without colour or much more than a basic shape in my mind. If I was able to spot and recant the colours and types of cars I'd not be concentrating enough to drive quickly safely

Well Lord Robertson does have a point.

As for the why penalise good drivers - show me a good driver and I'll think about that point. Good drivers are few and far between, like Dodos

@hels, variable fines and benefits are used in various european countries. So the ideas should not be so easily dismissed. If you earn 100gbp a week the impact of a 80gbp fine is very different to that experienced by someone earning 1000gbp a week.

As for the benefits argument if you are earning 1000 a week loosing your job and then living on 70 a week has a fast greater affect on life than going from 100 to 70.

Remember a driving licence is not a right, you have to prove you are capable, if you then prove unable to drive you should loose your licence.

CFH - so what - unlike some on here I don't bleat if done - I accept my fines and walk away.

Don't be a hypocrite - if you want to speed than accept the fines if caught.

[i]Yeah, I took some the other day of a driver using his mobile phone[/i]

Using a mobile phone isn't bad driving. Bad driving is bad driving.

Don't be a hypocrite - if you want to speed than accept the fines if caught.

Where did I say that I wouldn't accept a fine if I was caught?

coffeeking - Member

.............. If I was able to spot and recant the colours and types of cars I'd not be concentrating enough to drive quickly safely.

You are clearly not concentrating properly if you don't know what is around you.

I think a mandatory retest at 5 years would be a good idea as long as it is a lot harder.

then you would be on a provisional pass for your 1st 5 years.

they also needs to include compulsory motorway lessons and possibly a test and I think basic car care should be included. I am not talking a mechanics course but just a basic - how do you check the fluids, how do you do a visual check of tyres, what should you do if this noise/shake etc happens - basically getting people to realise that if something is wrong it could be serious and they need to go to a garage.

We also need to get out of the mentality that driving is a 'right' and you need to prove you are responsibly and skilled enough. The standard of driving these days is shocking.

Oh and people who use phones when driving really pi$$ me off!

In general CFH. Not you specifically

Here we go...

Ah, OK, understood, TJ. Thanks.

Also;

You are clearly not concentrating properly if you don't know what is around you.

Spot on.

Bob Peasant can happily save that £50 and buy all the twizzlers he wants with it by simply not breaking the law in the first place

I don't like speaking on behalf of others but I think this misses the point. The issue is that an on-the-spot fine will not discourage the rich from breaking the law.

However, I'd be interested to hear how you think this will be resourced?

Well it won't be. Obviously. It is mainly just pandering for votes and nothing measurable will come of it.

Fining people based on their income is nonsense and impossible to be consistent, anything that means treating people differently for the same offence is manifestly unfair.

But fixed fines means that you ARE treating people differently - taking 50% of one offender's weekly income and 0.0001% of anothers. That seems more unfair to me.

Coffeeking - are you serious? In that when driving quickly you dont know the colour or type of vehicles that are around you? If you are indeed serious then it suggests that you are driving way way beyond your ability levels. Golden rule is that if it feels fast then it is bad driving. I know that when I drive fast I know exactly where everything is, its speed, whether it is accelerating or slowing down and more often than not where the driver is looking and how they've been driving.

But fixed fines means that you ARE treating people differently - taking 50% of one offender's weekly income and 0.0001% of anothers. That seems more unfair to me

Agreed.

SBZ presumably your driving is a bit like TJ and his virtual bike... 🙂

more often than not where the driver is looking and how they've been driving

Boblo - no, my driving is just at the level it should be.

Boblo - no, my driving is just at the level it should be.

Best in the world.

Difficult leaving people in your dust without a car to demonstrate your state of the art driving skills in ne pas? 😆

Coffeeking - are you serious? In that when driving quickly you dont know the colour or type of vehicles that are around you? If you are indeed serious then it suggests that you are driving way way beyond your ability levels. Golden rule is that if it feels fast then it is bad driving. I know that when I drive fast I know exactly where everything is, its speed, whether it is accelerating or slowing down and more often than not where the driver is looking and how they've been driving.

re-read my post, I was talking about on track, and assuming anyone driving like a nut on public roads is going to be in a similar frame of mind.

I know that when I drive fast I know exactly where everything is, its speed, whether it is accelerating or slowing down and more often than not where the driver is looking and how they've been driving.

Regardless of how fast I'm driving I see all of those things (except where the person is looking as generally I've found it to provide no useful info at all unless they're looking away from me), I just don't care what vehicle colour and type it is when going faster. If I'm cruising around slowly and enjoying the day I'll notice the car with stripes for sure, but I'm not sure I would if I was hoofing it.

Much the same as speed cameras - if you're concentrating on the surface/traffic conditions as much as you should be when driving at speed, keeping an eye out for cameras is distracting.

You are clearly not concentrating properly if you don't know what is around you.

No, the point being colour is not important when driving fast (assuming you were going to on the roads), nor is the detail of whether a car has a roofrack or a set of lights. What's important is where they all are, how fast theyre moving, their recent history and likely future positions and to some extent their size (truck/van/car/bike etc). When motorway driving I could tell you where about 3 cars back and forward in each lane is, where it seems to be headed and which will pass next and usually the colour too. When driving faster the colour becomes less important, it seems to automatically get dropped from my senses. Much the same as when karting - I often race with 6 or 7 other people, of course I could recognise the colour of their helmet when tootling round but when going for it that goes out of the window, they're an object to be avoided and passed, only later do I identify who they were.

Like I said though, I'm only assuming that's how people who're driving like nuts on the road react, so I can see how they would not spot a police car. I'd rather they avoided me than spotted a police car.