[Closed] new driving fines thingy

Seems reasonable to me. Fines should be a lot higher though IMO. Start 'em at £500
That's what hurts people: Loosing money.

Good interview about this on Radio 4 with Philip Hamond (Transport Secretary):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9482000/9482518.stm

Makes sense to me - though I'm not a big fan of fixed fines as they punish the poor far more than the rich.

[url= http://www.lum.co.uk/mloc/index.html ]What about this lot, eh?[/url]

Will make fark all difference. The amount of people I see using mobiles whilst driving is astounding despite it being a fine + three points job. So if that's ignored then so will this.

I'm not a big fan of fixed fines as they punish the poor far more than the rich.

Or, looking at it another way, they punish people who break the law more than those who don't.

Personally I think it's BS.

Gives even more power to the jumped up little Hitlers who 9 times out of 10 are probably just jealous of the person driving the nice car.

*and breathe*

Fines are all well and good, but who is going to enforce them! The police don't enforce the existing laws very well

What about this lot, eh?

From that link;

Welcome to the official webpage of the Middle Lane Owners Club of Great Britain and Scotland.

I thought Scotland was part of Great Britian (at the moment, anyway).

I can't see it working.

With speeding its simple and they have clear proof. This is too subjective, its just your word against a policemans. I can see it being challenged a lot in court and ultimately being scrapped.

Variable fines based on income would be good I reckon. Like they have in other countries.

I think driving standards are pretty poor and hopefully after a few years it will have an effect on these standards.

jon1973, you should have a look at their section on Overtaking....

I think it's a great idea and a massive step in the right direction. It's a shame that we don't actually have any coppers to enforce it.

EDIT: is my typing really that slow? Someone beat me to my own comments.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

What about this lot, eh?

That's a great site, the overtaking page is especially useful 😆

Weekly checks
Check all pipes and top up tobacco
Check and top up tin of Worthers Originals
Check tyres. If one is missing then replace it

Its a case of a rozzer being in the right place at the right time. As has been said, I saw 3 people on mobiles while driving in my 20 minute walk home yesterday.

Good idea though... drive like a prick, get instant punishment.

They should issue the police with Bombers too...

Is this only aimed at motorists? Or are we included too??

I mean I jump lights and hop onto pavements, enter yellow boxes, bunny hop in front of taxis, cut underneath all the time in that there London..

> [i]I'm not a big fan of fixed fines as they punish the poor far more than the rich. [/i]

Or, looking at it another way, they punish people who break the law more than those who don't.

Eh? Are you suggesting that rich people don't drive badly?

My point is that two people from different ends of the social spectrum may commit the exactly same motoring offence, but using a fixed fine means the severity of their punishment is hugely different.

Lord Montgomery-Smythe the III can laugh off his £50 fine and have his man pay it with the change in the glovebox - whereas £50 might be half the benefits for a fortnight at Bob Peasant's house and mean his 12 kids have to go without Turkey Twizzlers.

That's a great site,

I'm tempted to join so I can use the forum and find out about group buying Worthers Originals to save money.

My point is that two people from different ends of the social spectrum may commit the exactly same motoring offence, but using a fixed fine means the severity of their punishment is hugely different.

Lord Montgomery-Smythe the III can laugh off his £50 fine and have his man pay it with the change in the glovebox - whereas £50 might be half the benefits for a fortnight at Bob Peasant's house and mean his 12 kids have to go without Turkey Twizzlers.

The crime is the same, so why should the punishment differ? Should a rich murderer serve longer than a poor one?

Bob Peasant can happily save that £50 and buy all the twizzlers he wants with it by simply [i]not breaking the law in the first place[/i]!

Yep, good in principle... how will it work in practice?

There are insufficient traffic cops left now they've been replaced with yellow boxes which is why you see so many people on the phone/barging in from slip roads/not signalling etc - standards are slipping (dontyachno).

So they'll get the psuedo cops out to do this; Billy Bunter the doughnut gobbler and his mate the PCSO... Both not really in a position to judge....

As with speeding, a lot of people will simply hold their hands up rather than contest and be fined when they might not even get to court normally.

Another crafty way of taxing motorists...

it works well enough in France why not here. the standard of driving is really poor here. Like the idea that 1st time it's a driving course, after that it's a fine.

Benjamin MiddleClass measures his fine in terms of bottles of red wine.

The crime is the same, so why should the punishment differ?

Because if you look at the fine in terms of a percentage of income, then for a poorer person, then the impact is greater, so it's a harsher penalty for them.

@MT - most of the French I've spoken to are very complimentary about UK driving standards (God knows why) and they have a proper police force to judge/enforce the on the spot fines.

but using a fixed fine means the severity of their punishment is hugely different.

Points on your licence is part of the fixed penalty, so I don't see how that has less of an impact if you're rich. Plus, if you can afford to run a car, then you can afford an £80 fine.

Easy answer is to not break the law.

Another crafty way of taxing motorists...

No it's not. It's a way of getting fines more easily and cheaply from those who break the law.

Bob Peasant can happily save that £50 and buy all the twizzlers he wants with it by simply not breaking the law in the first place!

So Lord Montgomery-Smythe the III can break all the laws he wants because he can clearly afford it?

measures his fine in terms of bottles of red wine

It's funny coz it's true. A 4 bottles of wine fine for not using my indicators.

Lord Montgomery-Smythe the III can break all the laws he wants because he can clearly afford it?

Not if he losses his licence and can't drive his Range Rover to the country club.

Does it mean I can send video evidence of shite driving to the police? I'm all for it if that's the case! Otherwise they just won't catch people.

Not if he losses his licence and can't drive his Range Rover to the country club.

Then he'd just sack that driver and hire another one 🙂

I think it's a good idea, but implementing it isn't going to be easy.

I can't remember the last time I saw a police car that wasn't on it's way to an emergency and I can't see them stopping to dole out fines if they see someone driving badly.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

No it's not. It's a way of getting fines more easily and cheaply from those who break the law

By reducing the standard of proof required? Who will be doing this? Not experienced traffic officers - unless there's a recruitment campaign. It'll be bobbies acting as judge and jury (well magistrate anyway) bullying people with paperwork and presumption of guilt. Again.

Does it mean I can send video evidence of shite driving to the police?

Yeah, I took some the other day of a driver using his mobile phone. Absolutely shocking it was. And it bloody caused me to creep up to 35 in a 30.

Then he'd just sack that driver and hire another one

It's not that easy, think of all the ribbing he'll get down the golf club.

As I recall the respect for the french bobbies was because they can be utter bastards and back it up with a gun. Got stopped for speeding (warning only) by a nice youg gandarme a few years ago, what made it clear to me that I should pull in was that he stepped into the road and pointed his machine gun in my general direction. He was very polite and I was extreemly respectful and polite. I was 8kph over the limit so no trip to the cash machine.

It'll be bobbies acting as judge and jury (well magistrate anyway) bullying people with paperwork and presumption of guilt. Again.

Bollocks. Like speeding you can contest the fine in court if you disagree with the officer.

But I rather think that when he takes you to his car and shows you a video of you demonstrably driving like an arse then you're better off admitting it is a fair cop and just paying the fine.

That's not [i]"bullying"[/i] - it is just efficient justice.

a step in the right direction - sends the right message at least.
No doubt the 'war on the motorist/what about cyclists' lines will be trotted out again.
But we do need more bobbies around to spot the offence if people are actually to be punished for their behaviour. Only when there are consequences will people change IMO

Are people really driving that badly?
Are you not all getting a bit 'Daily Mail' about this?

Fining people based on their income is nonsense and impossible to be consistent, anything that means treating people differently for the same offence is manifestly unfair.

What next ? Have Actuaries work out how long somebody will live ? Big fat rapist who smokes gets a five year sentence and your fit healthy rapist ten years ?? (although realistically only 1% of them will ever go anywhere near a prison, but thats for another rant)

Then, to take that to it's logical conclusion - Mr Mercedes Owner suddenly finds himself homeless and unemployed - surely the state should give him much higher benefits - as the impact on him will be much much more than Joe Fiesta Driver...

GrahamS - Member
Like speeding you can contest the fine in court if you disagree with the officer.

But I rather think that when he takes you to his car and shows you a video of you demonstrably driving like an arse then you're better off admitting it is a fair cop and just paying the fine.

Yes, but people don't do they? Not just because they are bang to rights Guv, but because they can't be arsed/can't get to court/can't afford the time etc etc....

I agree with your last para. If an appropriately trained and experienced traffic officer can properly judge the offence and show the ne're do well what they did on video, they should be given the ticket option.

However, I'd be interested to hear how you think this will be resourced?

The Southern Yeti - Member
Are people really driving that badly?

Yes, round 'ere. They are selfish fkcers and should be gassed 🙂