[Closed] Neighbour Extortion ?

We offered to repair the cracks for her as a good will gesture – but she said she wanted it done professionally – which we agreed she could get a quote for.

This makes it a bit late for this....

We haven’t got that sort of money at the moment and I will not be paying that much – feel pretty affronted tbh and tempted to tell her to jog on

Get your own decorator to give you a quote.

That's what dilapidation surveys are for. Your builder sounds like a knob, pass the bill to them.

Does the Party Wall Act apply? If so, did you breach it?

It's quite possible that what she has is simple settlement that happens when a house is restructured. It is an aesthetic problem (usually) not a structural one. Might also have some doors that need planed or rehanging if the doorway has settled slightly. Your side probably has changes too. But she didn't do the work, you did, so you are on the hook.

We offered to repair the cracks for her as a good will gesture

It's not really a good will gesture when you are the one that put the cracks in her house...

You don't have to necessarily accept her quote, ask her for another. But you should be looking to get the work done.

Hence why I'd agreed to have the work done, I didn't agree to have her whole house redecorated at exorbitant cost!

Our builder at the time said it was nothing.

Have you had a look and is it "nothing"?

If you don't sort it she might start a thread here and everyone will tell her to use the legal cover on her home insurance, so worth keeping on side

Seems fair to fix any damage to her house (though obviously you don't know if it was there before or not.  Someone might of just scared her into worrying about potential problems caused by your works, and/or she spotted a way to make some money, get existing issues fixed.  Who knows).  Labour charges can quickly add up with multiple visits (which might be the case where stuff needs to be redecorated), but I might start by getting that £350 'materials' bill itemised.  That's quite a lot of coving, filler and paint at trade prices.

If? you broke it you fix it wether you have the cash or not. It's not good will if your building works caused the damage. Neighbour wars can well take the shine off your refurbished house.

Yes had a look, it's small cracks easily fillable with caulk. The rooms shes complaining about don't even touch our party wall, they are the other side of the house.

Basically I feel we may have caused the damage but it's not certain by any means and she is trying to take the Mick out of us - I'm more than happy to repair any damage we have caused just not to be taken for a mug i.e 950 labour and 350 materials. Will certainly be getting an itemised quote and getting a decorator of our own to look.

It's been an extraordinarily dry summer, it could just be the ground drying out and causing a bit of subsidence, there's a lot of it about 😉

The recent very dry weather and subsequent ground shrinkage has caused quite a few small cracks in many houses around here. That may be the cause of some of the cracks but that will be almost impossible to prove. I think you will be paying if you want to keep a good relationship. Surely its quite a small percentage of the overall cost of the works even if it is a bit of a kick in the nuts at the end.

Anything that has replastering is hard to do cheap... the whole process is just time consuming to do properly.

The plastering itself is only a fairly small part of the work and time, especially doing it piece meal.

extortion
ɪkˈstɔːʃ(ə)n,ɛkˈstɔːʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

I don't think that applies in this case! 😆

Doing the right thing is one thing, getting taken advantage of is another.

My Mom had similar when her neighbours had some structural work done. Pretty much every wall/ceiling junction on the party wall cracked and moved. She had cracked ceilings, gaps in the coving, gaps at the corners of stud walls and even had movement/cracks at a built in cupboard under the stairs and cracks around the stair stringers on the opposite side of the house. I have a building background so I marked up the walls, ceilings and gaps to make sure no more movement was going to occur. Funnily the neighbours who had the work done also said they had no cracks or movement but it would of been hard to tell and covered up with new plaster, coving etc.

When i was happy nothing was moving any further we repaired any damage and re decorated. all the rooms on the party wall side needed quite a lot of work and it would of cost a fortune if we had paid a decorator.

It doesn't need replastering. Just caulking or a bit of aims and then painting at the most! I'm all for keeping neighborhood relations but I don't feel it's being extended to me. If it was me I'd offer to do it as cheap as poss, rather than using it as an excuse to have the whole place redone!

Ok thanks for the replies. Do you think it's unreasonable to then say, I'm not paying for your guy to do it but I will get my own decorator to fix it? I'm pretty sure when she says it's not me paying the decorator get £signs in his eyes!

It doesn’t need replastering. Just caulking or a bit of aims and then painting at the most!

But you aren't the expert and she has a right to have the damage caused to her house put right at your cost. Ask your tradesmen to look at the work required and have them quote on putting it right (she doesn't have the right to choose who is used to do the work, only that it is put right).

You broke it, you fix it, to as good or better than before. Quickly and without fuss or haggling. And don't have her chasing round endlessly for quotes, or having to project manage the job for you. Sounds like she already had to suffer months of noise and vibrations with all that list of work you had done. Then when it's all done, big bunch of flowers and another apology.

You broke it, you fix it, to as good or better than before. Quickly and without fuss or haggling. And don’t have her chasing round endlessly for quotes, or having to project manage the job for you. Sounds like she already had to suffer months of noise and vibrations with all that list of work you had done. Then when it’s all done, big bunch of flowers and another apology.

Agreed - Exactly what he should do if he believes the neighbour is genuine, and not taking advantage of the situation.  However, there seems to be some doubt.  Impossible to make a judgement on that from the info that has been shared.

If you're just caulking cracks in the ceiling or wallsl I'm afraid you're not offering to do a good job and neither is your decorator.

If you’re just caulking cracks in the ceiling or wallsl I’m afraid you’re not offering to do a good job and neither is your decorator.

Depends on the damage, surely?

If it was my house you damages with my knowledge of building and building law we would be in court by now, you have failed in your basic duties

A delap survey, constant communication and post settlement survey would have saved you a lot of financial pain

You cannot proved that you are not 100% in the wrong

on the other hand I would be biting the hand of you neighbour at that offer,

Ask her round for a cup of tea and cake show off your how well decorated yours is and suggest that you ask your decorator to quote .. Thank her for her patience whilst you have had all this work carried out and reassure her that you want to make this right .. If she is not happy id go with plumber and bite her hand off as it sounds as if there was no post and pre surveys?

There was no post or pre survey, we are new to this and didn't realise. The damage is tiny to her house in my opinion, we've been really upfront throughout.

I just spoke to our building control officer (who has seen the cracks in her house) who basically said it was our word against hers and she couldn't prove it wasn't there before and that she was being unreasonable in the level of repair work she was expecting, but for good will it was reasonable to have them repaired via our tradesperson of choosing.

No caulking cracks in a  wall or ceiling is not doing it properly and an inferior finish.

Unless you're intending to move house next year then you'd be well advised to give her £1500 this week, and a nice bouquet of flowers and apologies for all the inconvenience. Otherwise she will hate you for ever. And make sure everyone knows why.

I’ll pop in on this, sort of similar (kinda)

We've-been renovating a property, has a neighbor.

Lots of work done in our property (too long to list) issue occurred over a large crack in stairwell wall (slippage back in the 50’s) same crack in neighbor wall same place..

Wind forward and we’ve had ours repaired, but that did make some rather big works (pinned) and neighbor was informed we’d be doing this at no cost to him (his house suffering same slippage crack)

Issue, neighbor wanted stairwell repair and decorations made good. We said get a quote or we will get our builders in to do works.. he got a quote far exceeding works required so we got our builder to quote for remedial works and local planning officer to pop round and take a look whilst on site visit... neighbor hasn’t decorated since 70’s and all paper/paint needs properly decorating.. anyway neighbors quote £2500, we laughed and posted it back through his door. We offered our builder to fix issues at our cost (about £900) but neighbor refused stating (I kid you not) “he doesn’t want Polish workers in his house” well fact 1) they ain’t polish, they’re Muldovan and 2) the planning officer made a statement that we could make good using our builders at our cost.

So... a solicitors letter dropped through making claim to all sorts of horse crap, so we organised a survey, planner, party wall surveyor and builder to all go round and state facts in front of neighbor, his son and his solicitor...

Resolution?

We got our builder to make good his repairs at our cost of £900.

Solicitor issued a final completion letter with no further works or repairs to his property would be carried out by us in the future.

Sometimes Brexiteers need a kick in the balls.

It doesn’t need replastering. Just caulking or a bit of aims and then painting at the most!

If you want a cheap, crappy looking finish which may crack at a later date. It might also be advisable to remove plaster to ensure that the bricks haven't cracked before putting the new plaster down.

I just spoke to our building control officer (who has seen the cracks in her house) who basically said it was our word against hers and she couldn’t prove it wasn’t there before

And their word means little in this circumsance, I'm pretty sure she could find a RICS surveyor to say that the cracks most probably were caused by your building work. You put in an RSJ, the house moves. Twice really - once putting the arcos in, then again when you take them out. Moving causes cracking.

You can deal with her, or you can deal with her insurer and their solicitors. One will be a lot cheaper than the other...

No caulking cracks in a  wall or ceiling is not doing it properly and an inferior finish.

Is anyone suggesting that?  Obviously would have to be decorated/finished.

>Doing the right thing is one thing, getting taken advantage of is another.

Tell me about it...

Wow! What am asshole the OP appears to be. Just thank the good lord you’re not living in Baghdad where you’d be no doubt helping to fix your neighbours house.

honestly it really is that you want everything after not taking ownership of said works.

Seriously grow up and be accepting that you should just pay her or get your neighbours house redecorated.

Brant - hadn’t you freely bent over 😂

I'm not saying I don't want to pay for it, just that the costs are taking the piss. I'm not an asshole you judgemental twazzock.

Try not to although you have got your knickers twisted up, just take your pills and re access the situation by trying to look at it from her perspective.

At the end of the day, your neighbour probably isn’t looking to take you to the cleaners.

I’d personally be asking “how good is my builder”.

If it was my house that was damaged then I woul;d want a proper repair not some caulk stuff in the crack.  that would involve raking out the cracks, fillering, and then most importantly a repaint certainly of the wall, ceiling that is cracked but probably the whole room as a partial repaint looks rubbish

You are getting off lightly.  I had damage done by contractors similar to what you describe.  Repair costs were £3000+

Its also your contractors liability not yours I would have thought and without a dilapidation survey you have no defence.

pay up

My builder is extremely good according to building control, but there you go just asking for opinions not to be called an asshole.

sorry but wanting to get out of paying a small sum ( compared to what you have spent on your house surely) for repairs to damage you caused is not on nor is suggesting caulking cracks the work of a good builder

Tell me about it…

🙂

There was no post or pre survey, we are new to this and didn’t realise.

Next time get a decent builder who knows what needs to be done, understands building regs and law etc,.and tells you to do it before they start.  It costs whatever it costs, it is 100% your fault.

Just as if someone drove into your house and then offered to bodge up any damage with some filler and expect you to be pleased with that.

If it was my house that was damaged then I woul;d want a proper repair not some caulk stuff in the crack.  that would involve raking out the cracks, fillering, and then most importantly a repaint certainly of the wall, ceiling that is cracked but probably the whole room as a partial repaint looks rubbish

Just a standard repair then.  For the correct sort of 'crack' (it hasn't been specified), caulk is what you use to do the 'fillering'.  Thanks for the list though.  Next time I have to 'make' a pot noddle can you sort me out with some cue cards :-).

benjamins11

I’m not saying I don’t want to pay for it, just that the costs are taking the piss.

Ultimately that's just your opinion at the moment. Until you get your own people out to assess and give you a quote, no-one is taking the piss, you just think they are.

Get the quote from your own people (which you are perfectly entitled to do) then form an opinion, until then it's all speculation and bluster from all sides. (Well apart from your neighbour, they've got their quote, it's up to you to, fairly, dispute that. Not just go with what you think.)

Precisely the point as above last poster put. This rain must be clouding my eloquency and well cba so put it in laymerns terms tgat OP is an ass 0 going on what they are typing.

I'm not being an ass as you so eloquently put it. I'm offering to pay for remedial works just not to be ripped off. 1300 may be a trivial sum to you lot but to me it's a lot of money especially at the end of a project.

Spoke to my builder who also has seen cracks and he laughed at the cost, is going to send one of his decorator s round. He also said given location and timing of cracks i.e. 3 months after rsj put in it was unlikely even our fault as settlement happens faster than that.

I'm obviously not as rich as most of you lot.

1300 may be a trivial sum to you lot but to me it’s a lot of money especially at the end of a project.

Which is an entirely irrelevant fact. It costs what it costs and you can't be indignatious about it simply because you can't afford it.

OP, it seems like you just want agreement, not opinions.

I’m not being an ass as you so eloquently put it. I’m offering to pay for remedial works just not to be ripped off. 1300 may be a trivial sum to you lot but to me it’s a lot of money especially at the end of a project.

Spoke to my builder who also has seen cracks and he laughed at the cost, is going to send one of his decorator s round. He also said given location and timing of cracks i.e. 3 months after rsj put in it was unlikely even our fault as settlement happens faster than that.

The point is the £1300 is trivial to her... it's not her money.

A mate of mine had his whole kitchen sag months after work next door... I've seen it... he could have repaired most of it himself but then he'd not be sure there were no cracks behind plaster etc. He's a pretty reasonable bloke but he wanted it doing right...  indeed he actually waited an extra 6mo or so to make sure no further damage was going to occur.

How much is your work cost in your house?  I bet an awful lot more than £1300.  Caulk is not the correct thing to use for crack filling.

tbh, this should probably be done through insurance anyhow, get her to claim on her building insurance, then her insurers can claim your building insurance, and your insurance and claim the builders insurance! 😆

How much is your work cost in your house?  I bet an awful lot more than £1300.

That's irrelevant, no?

Without any pre and post survey its going to be pretty tricky to sort out amicably. Your builder will have their opinion and so does the person that you neighbour had in to look at it.

A true independent assessment would probably be fair as a from of arbitration, but since it was you who had the works done that cost would likely be down to you to cover and given its more likely to be able to stand up to scrutiny isnt likely to be cheap. So if you want to roll those dice and see what cost the independent assessor would put against it and if you were both prepared to abide by their decision, you might end up not having to fork out quite as much, on the other hand it might be painful?

Im trying to think how I would feel if your neighbour was a relative of mine and also what Id do if I was you, dont think the choice of contractor can be forced upon them and nor does seem fair that the neighbour only has one quote. But then why should they have to spend more time getting more quotes.

If you dont want to pay the £1300 for whatever reason, perhaps making a counter offer of say £1000 might sweeten it all out, chalk it up to experience but try not to let it consume you?

See it from the neighbours perspective:

Neighbour has work done.

Said work puts cracks in the wall and ceiling that weren't there before.

Neighbour has no idea how deep or how bad said cracks are.

Neighbours gets a quote for a recommended builder so fix the cracks.

I don't see how they're being unreasonable at all. Yes, you could ask them to get anther quote, but if that says roughly the same, what are you going to do then?

If you dont want to pay the £1300 for whatever reason, perhaps making a counter offer of say £1000 might sweeten it all out, chalk it up to experience but try not to let it consume you

That to me is unreasonable, it's the OP's responsibility to cover the full cost of getting it back to the required standard, personally I'd reject this out of hand. Get another quote and then either pay it or put it through insurance, the neighbour should bear no cost.

for repairs to damage you caused

A lot of people having a pop at the OP, a few being not very pleasant about it either.

The crux of the matter is that it hasn't been established that what the neighbour is claiming is actually the fault of the building work carried out and no-one on this thread has seen the 'damage'.

My advice, pop round and say you feel the quoted amount (open-ended too!) seems excessive and you would like your own tradesman (not the original builder, he has a vested interest) to have a look, without prejudice (I know, I know).

psling - with no dilapidation survey then the OP has to accept the damage was caused by his building works.

Its also the responsibility of his contractor to sort out not his IMO

What "works" that yiube had done would have caused these cracks?

This could be the first of many invoices as suddenly she starts to notice "new" cracks.

I wouldn't pay up, I would get another contractor to look at it, and also survey everything so she can't come back with more requests in the future.

wrightyson - removing walls and putting RSJs in?

How much is your work cost in your house?  I bet an awful lot more than £1300.  Caulk is not the correct thing to use for crack filling.

🙂 Do you know what caulk is for?  For your education, so you don't make the same mistake in the future:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caulking

www.askthebuilder.com/how-to-caulk-ceiling-cracks

How can you possibly know it isn't the right material, when the OP hasn't even seen the 'damage'?  Now, it is possible it might not be the right thing for this job (it certainly isn't for some 'cracks', which could be a whole range of things), my point is that you have no idea.

Personal attacks again  "sighs"

I really have got under your skin haven't I?

I know caulk is never the right thing for crack filling - it will never look right.  Decorators caulk is for bodgers only.

🙂 Are you going to claim it is a personal attack every time I disagree with you?

I know

This is the issue.  Perhaps if you could avoid stating things are 'facts', when they are er, wrong, you might avoid this type of response.

its a personal attack when it is.  As this was. As you have been banned for and warned for doing in the past.  Its a fact.  decorators caulk is not the right thing for crack filling.  It will never look right.  Any decorator using caulk is bodging it.

Have you looked at the second link above?  Take a look, and lets discuss.

Was the pot noodle comment below the belt?  Would it make you feel better if I told you it was chicken and mushroom flavour?

I employ many a decorator and the use of decorators caulk is not a bodge.

Putting in rsj's and removing walls doesn't suddenly become the cause of cracks. Any settlement from taking a wall out and installing a subsequent rsj if done incorrectly would most certainly also affect the op's side of the house.

its a personal attack when it is.  As this was. As you have been banned for and warned for doing in the past.

Was worth it too, as it obviously left an impression :-).  Didn't quite last as long as your ban though did it?

C'mon, lighten up a bit and lets talk caulk.  Try taking a new approach - it is possible to have a discussion when someone completely disagrees with you.  You quite often post up 'evidence' to try and prove your point and 'educate' people.  Is it okay for someone else to do the same, or is that an attack?

Feel a bit bad for hijacking the thread, but I'm guessing the OP might not be that bothered at this stage?

I employ many a decorator and the use of decorators caulk is not a bodge.

Yep.  It does exist for a reason.  Using it for the correct application is not a bodge.

As a builder of some 27 years I’d say you’re all being a bit harsh on the o.p.

The lady is complaining about coving coming off and cracking, all possible problems caused by work to a party wall, but these problems are on the other side of the house!

When I first started in the building trade I did loads of underpinning for insurance claims, involved a lot of crack filling I can tell you.

As for coving falling off, if that happened I could generally see through into next doors through the cracks!

Anyhow a good deal of these claims were put down to the clay underneath the footings drying out and shrinking causing subsidence........What a summer we’ve had so far, seen much rain lately? (Last couple of days not included of course! 😂)

I think the o.p is being more than fair given the circumstances. I’ll be brutally honest here, if it was me, I’d be telling her to do one!

I had a look at said cracks this afternoon when I went round to speak to them - they are all hairline cracks. In my opinion caulk would do the job fine - its only cosmetic plaster cracking not the actual bricks underneath.

As has been said if it was settlement you would expect some new cracking in my house - which there is none - it may be due to vibration I will concede.

I really want to make good this for them - I just feel that they have gone to an expensive tradesperson - told them they are not paying we are and he has gone to town.

Everyperson who has seen the cracking i.e. my builder (not impartial i realise) and building control feel that the price quoted is ridiculous.

Hopefully our tradesperson can come up with a more reasonable quote - if he comes back the same then I guess we have to suck it up.

Have you managed to get a good look at her crack yet?

Im presuming there hasnt been any damage to her back door..

As a builder of some 27 years I’d say you’re all being a bit harsh on the o.p.

Tend to agree.  I think people were rather too keen to assume the damage was on the more serious side, without any evidence this was the case (vice versa also applies, to be fair) and pounce on the OP for not wanting to compensate.  OP can make this right (independent quote/assessment needed) and still make sure he isn't being exploited.  Seems fair enough.

The earlier reference to The Party Wall Act seems to have been ignored so far.  If your neighbour decides to go to court the onus would now be on you to prove that the damage wasn’t caused by your building work rather than your neighbour having to prove that it was.

https://www.peterbarry.co.uk/what-to-do-when-your-neighbour-ignores-the-party-wall-act/

we did a party wall act at the time the works were done. How does that affect things? need to go read it!

The Party Wall Act allows a building owner to do reasonable works to the party wall with their neighbours.   It prevents the neighbours making unreasonable objections.   It also protects the neighbour from the cost of repairing consequential damage.   The award <span style="text-decoration: underline;">can</span> consist of the neighbour agreeing to the work.   They shouldn't because doing so signs away their rights.   If they dissent (which is always the sensible thing to do) there follows, among other things, the appointment of Party Wall Surveyors: one for each party and both paid for by the owner doing the work.  Part of the Surveyors' job is to prepare and agree a Schedule of Condition of the party wall (especially the neighbour's side) and to agree appropriate remedial works after the event.   These are paid for by the owner.   It works well because it is fair to both parties and is handled by objective professionals.   If there is a Party Wall Award in place go look at it... now.   If your neighbours have agreed to the work then your position is basically to be a nice guy and pay a fair price for reasonable repairs because your neighbour has little ability to force anything.   If they dissented then the boot is on the other foot and you need to agree to whatever they ask for on the grounds it doesn't sound like you dealt with it (surveyors etc) as required by law.   You would have noticed and remembered if you had.  Good luck, it has the potential to get messy.

So if I understand the situation

builder has done some work

said work has resulted in damage to adjacent property

assuming that there was a specific plan in place this was either raised in advance and the OP took the risk so pays for the remedial work or it is covered by the builders public liability. Either way it is not down to the neighbours to pay.

i would also second the idea of waiting and monitoring to make sure nothing is still  moving. You don’t want to pay twice...

another good thing to do might be to sit down with the neighbours and run through the plans and calculations that were done for the work so that they feel slightly more confident that some small movement isn’t the start of the building collapsing.

People notice problems when they look for them.

Is there a physical connection between your house and your neighbour's? Is there a party wall? Is there any reason to suppose your works affected your neighbour's house?

If not, what do your works have to do with the condition of her house? If so, maybe it's time to speak to a surveyor.

As you've offered to remedy the problems, get your own quotes for the work.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">It might be worth speaking to a surveyor or solicitor to ensure your neighbour can't come back for a second bite of the cherry without reasonable cause. </span>

It's worth getting a schedule of condition to establish a baseline.

Ah just read you have a Party Wall agreement. Should be a schedule of condition there. Go read the agreement instead of posting here; assume it was drawn up by a surveyor they should come back and identify what needs fixing. Go to tender on the agreed works and fix them.

Dont leave it to your neighbour.

I think 'extortion' is probably a bit harsh?

If she doesn't want to use your builder because she thinks you'll get him to do it on the cheap, then maybe ask her to get a second quote from another local decorator?

You know how it feels when you have a nice bike, which has nothing wrong with it, and then someone scratches it . . . and then tells you offhandedly "it's nothing" . . .

Then they offer t touch it up for you but you say you'd like it done properly . . . and they say they haven't got any money now 'cos they spent all their money on a new set of wheels . . . .

The answer is simple ask to see go round and see get a quote from your decorator/builder.

You know when a mechanic changes your front forks, afterwards you notice some scratches at the dropouts on the back? You blame the mechanic, mechanic says we can sort them for you as we didn't know if they were there or not before. You say I want a full respray from the most expensive paint shop in the land please.

You know how it feels when you have a nice bike, which has nothing wrong with it, and then someone scratches it . . . and then tells you offhandedly “it’s nothing” . . .

Then they offer t touch it up for you but you say you’d like it done properly . . . and they say they haven’t got any money now ‘cos they spent all their money on a new set of wheels . . . .

This is an example of where we can be sure that caulk wouldn't be the right material for the job.