OP, it seems like you just want agreement, not opinions.
I’m not being an ass as you so eloquently put it. I’m offering to pay for remedial works just not to be ripped off. 1300 may be a trivial sum to you lot but to me it’s a lot of money especially at the end of a project.
Spoke to my builder who also has seen cracks and he laughed at the cost, is going to send one of his decorator s round. He also said given location and timing of cracks i.e. 3 months after rsj put in it was unlikely even our fault as settlement happens faster than that.
The point is the £1300 is trivial to her... it's not her money.
A mate of mine had his whole kitchen sag months after work next door... I've seen it... he could have repaired most of it himself but then he'd not be sure there were no cracks behind plaster etc. He's a pretty reasonable bloke but he wanted it doing right... indeed he actually waited an extra 6mo or so to make sure no further damage was going to occur.
How much is your work cost in your house? I bet an awful lot more than £1300. Caulk is not the correct thing to use for crack filling.
tbh, this should probably be done through insurance anyhow, get her to claim on her building insurance, then her insurers can claim your building insurance, and your insurance and claim the builders insurance! 😆
How much is your work cost in your house? I bet an awful lot more than £1300.
That's irrelevant, no?
Without any pre and post survey its going to be pretty tricky to sort out amicably. Your builder will have their opinion and so does the person that you neighbour had in to look at it.
A true independent assessment would probably be fair as a from of arbitration, but since it was you who had the works done that cost would likely be down to you to cover and given its more likely to be able to stand up to scrutiny isnt likely to be cheap. So if you want to roll those dice and see what cost the independent assessor would put against it and if you were both prepared to abide by their decision, you might end up not having to fork out quite as much, on the other hand it might be painful?
Im trying to think how I would feel if your neighbour was a relative of mine and also what Id do if I was you, dont think the choice of contractor can be forced upon them and nor does seem fair that the neighbour only has one quote. But then why should they have to spend more time getting more quotes.
If you dont want to pay the £1300 for whatever reason, perhaps making a counter offer of say £1000 might sweeten it all out, chalk it up to experience but try not to let it consume you?
See it from the neighbours perspective:
Neighbour has work done.
Said work puts cracks in the wall and ceiling that weren't there before.
Neighbour has no idea how deep or how bad said cracks are.
Neighbours gets a quote for a recommended builder so fix the cracks.
I don't see how they're being unreasonable at all. Yes, you could ask them to get anther quote, but if that says roughly the same, what are you going to do then?
If you dont want to pay the £1300 for whatever reason, perhaps making a counter offer of say £1000 might sweeten it all out, chalk it up to experience but try not to let it consume you
That to me is unreasonable, it's the OP's responsibility to cover the full cost of getting it back to the required standard, personally I'd reject this out of hand. Get another quote and then either pay it or put it through insurance, the neighbour should bear no cost.
for repairs to damage you caused
A lot of people having a pop at the OP, a few being not very pleasant about it either.
The crux of the matter is that it hasn't been established that what the neighbour is claiming is actually the fault of the building work carried out and no-one on this thread has seen the 'damage'.
My advice, pop round and say you feel the quoted amount (open-ended too!) seems excessive and you would like your own tradesman (not the original builder, he has a vested interest) to have a look, without prejudice (I know, I know).
psling - with no dilapidation survey then the OP has to accept the damage was caused by his building works.
Its also the responsibility of his contractor to sort out not his IMO
What "works" that yiube had done would have caused these cracks?
This could be the first of many invoices as suddenly she starts to notice "new" cracks.
I wouldn't pay up, I would get another contractor to look at it, and also survey everything so she can't come back with more requests in the future.
wrightyson - removing walls and putting RSJs in?
How much is your work cost in your house? I bet an awful lot more than £1300. Caulk is not the correct thing to use for crack filling.
🙂 Do you know what caulk is for? For your education, so you don't make the same mistake in the future:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caulking
www.askthebuilder.com/how-to-caulk-ceiling-cracks
How can you possibly know it isn't the right material, when the OP hasn't even seen the 'damage'? Now, it is possible it might not be the right thing for this job (it certainly isn't for some 'cracks', which could be a whole range of things), my point is that you have no idea.
Personal attacks again "sighs"
I really have got under your skin haven't I?
I know caulk is never the right thing for crack filling - it will never look right. Decorators caulk is for bodgers only.
🙂 Are you going to claim it is a personal attack every time I disagree with you?
I know
This is the issue. Perhaps if you could avoid stating things are 'facts', when they are er, wrong, you might avoid this type of response.
its a personal attack when it is. As this was. As you have been banned for and warned for doing in the past. Its a fact. decorators caulk is not the right thing for crack filling. It will never look right. Any decorator using caulk is bodging it.
Have you looked at the second link above? Take a look, and lets discuss.
Was the pot noodle comment below the belt? Would it make you feel better if I told you it was chicken and mushroom flavour?
I employ many a decorator and the use of decorators caulk is not a bodge.
Putting in rsj's and removing walls doesn't suddenly become the cause of cracks. Any settlement from taking a wall out and installing a subsequent rsj if done incorrectly would most certainly also affect the op's side of the house.
its a personal attack when it is. As this was. As you have been banned for and warned for doing in the past.
Was worth it too, as it obviously left an impression :-). Didn't quite last as long as your ban though did it?
C'mon, lighten up a bit and lets talk caulk. Try taking a new approach - it is possible to have a discussion when someone completely disagrees with you. You quite often post up 'evidence' to try and prove your point and 'educate' people. Is it okay for someone else to do the same, or is that an attack?
Feel a bit bad for hijacking the thread, but I'm guessing the OP might not be that bothered at this stage?
I employ many a decorator and the use of decorators caulk is not a bodge.
Yep. It does exist for a reason. Using it for the correct application is not a bodge.
As a builder of some 27 years I’d say you’re all being a bit harsh on the o.p.
The lady is complaining about coving coming off and cracking, all possible problems caused by work to a party wall, but these problems are on the other side of the house!
When I first started in the building trade I did loads of underpinning for insurance claims, involved a lot of crack filling I can tell you.
As for coving falling off, if that happened I could generally see through into next doors through the cracks!
Anyhow a good deal of these claims were put down to the clay underneath the footings drying out and shrinking causing subsidence........What a summer we’ve had so far, seen much rain lately? (Last couple of days not included of course! 😂)
I think the o.p is being more than fair given the circumstances. I’ll be brutally honest here, if it was me, I’d be telling her to do one!
I had a look at said cracks this afternoon when I went round to speak to them - they are all hairline cracks. In my opinion caulk would do the job fine - its only cosmetic plaster cracking not the actual bricks underneath.
As has been said if it was settlement you would expect some new cracking in my house - which there is none - it may be due to vibration I will concede.
I really want to make good this for them - I just feel that they have gone to an expensive tradesperson - told them they are not paying we are and he has gone to town.
Everyperson who has seen the cracking i.e. my builder (not impartial i realise) and building control feel that the price quoted is ridiculous.
Hopefully our tradesperson can come up with a more reasonable quote - if he comes back the same then I guess we have to suck it up.
Have you managed to get a good look at her crack yet?
Im presuming there hasnt been any damage to her back door..
As a builder of some 27 years I’d say you’re all being a bit harsh on the o.p.
Tend to agree. I think people were rather too keen to assume the damage was on the more serious side, without any evidence this was the case (vice versa also applies, to be fair) and pounce on the OP for not wanting to compensate. OP can make this right (independent quote/assessment needed) and still make sure he isn't being exploited. Seems fair enough.
The earlier reference to The Party Wall Act seems to have been ignored so far. If your neighbour decides to go to court the onus would now be on you to prove that the damage wasn’t caused by your building work rather than your neighbour having to prove that it was.
https://www.peterbarry.co.uk/what-to-do-when-your-neighbour-ignores-the-party-wall-act/
we did a party wall act at the time the works were done. How does that affect things? need to go read it!
The Party Wall Act allows a building owner to do reasonable works to the party wall with their neighbours. It prevents the neighbours making unreasonable objections. It also protects the neighbour from the cost of repairing consequential damage. The award <span style="text-decoration: underline;">can</span> consist of the neighbour agreeing to the work. They shouldn't because doing so signs away their rights. If they dissent (which is always the sensible thing to do) there follows, among other things, the appointment of Party Wall Surveyors: one for each party and both paid for by the owner doing the work. Part of the Surveyors' job is to prepare and agree a Schedule of Condition of the party wall (especially the neighbour's side) and to agree appropriate remedial works after the event. These are paid for by the owner. It works well because it is fair to both parties and is handled by objective professionals. If there is a Party Wall Award in place go look at it... now. If your neighbours have agreed to the work then your position is basically to be a nice guy and pay a fair price for reasonable repairs because your neighbour has little ability to force anything. If they dissented then the boot is on the other foot and you need to agree to whatever they ask for on the grounds it doesn't sound like you dealt with it (surveyors etc) as required by law. You would have noticed and remembered if you had. Good luck, it has the potential to get messy.
So if I understand the situation
builder has done some work
said work has resulted in damage to adjacent property
assuming that there was a specific plan in place this was either raised in advance and the OP took the risk so pays for the remedial work or it is covered by the builders public liability. Either way it is not down to the neighbours to pay.
i would also second the idea of waiting and monitoring to make sure nothing is still moving. You don’t want to pay twice...
another good thing to do might be to sit down with the neighbours and run through the plans and calculations that were done for the work so that they feel slightly more confident that some small movement isn’t the start of the building collapsing.
People notice problems when they look for them.
Is there a physical connection between your house and your neighbour's? Is there a party wall? Is there any reason to suppose your works affected your neighbour's house?
If not, what do your works have to do with the condition of her house? If so, maybe it's time to speak to a surveyor.
As you've offered to remedy the problems, get your own quotes for the work.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">It might be worth speaking to a surveyor or solicitor to ensure your neighbour can't come back for a second bite of the cherry without reasonable cause. </span>
It's worth getting a schedule of condition to establish a baseline.
Ah just read you have a Party Wall agreement. Should be a schedule of condition there. Go read the agreement instead of posting here; assume it was drawn up by a surveyor they should come back and identify what needs fixing. Go to tender on the agreed works and fix them.
Dont leave it to your neighbour.
I think 'extortion' is probably a bit harsh?
If she doesn't want to use your builder because she thinks you'll get him to do it on the cheap, then maybe ask her to get a second quote from another local decorator?
You know how it feels when you have a nice bike, which has nothing wrong with it, and then someone scratches it . . . and then tells you offhandedly "it's nothing" . . .
Then they offer t touch it up for you but you say you'd like it done properly . . . and they say they haven't got any money now 'cos they spent all their money on a new set of wheels . . . .
The answer is simple ask to see go round and see get a quote from your decorator/builder.
You know when a mechanic changes your front forks, afterwards you notice some scratches at the dropouts on the back? You blame the mechanic, mechanic says we can sort them for you as we didn't know if they were there or not before. You say I want a full respray from the most expensive paint shop in the land please.
You know how it feels when you have a nice bike, which has nothing wrong with it, and then someone scratches it . . . and then tells you offhandedly “it’s nothing” . . .
Then they offer t touch it up for you but you say you’d like it done properly . . . and they say they haven’t got any money now ‘cos they spent all their money on a new set of wheels . . . .
This is an example of where we can be sure that caulk wouldn't be the right material for the job.
Oohhh, good thread......
Late to the party but I agree that some people are being a bit harsh on the OP. The cracks are on the opposite side of her house and are hairline. I would also be dubious, plenty of people will try to take advantage when they see an opportunity and I don't like paying large sums of money (yes £1300 is a large sum of money) to people when I have no reason to.
Cant offer any advice as the resolution though, sorry.
The rooms shes complaining about don’t even touch our party wall, they are the other side of the house.
Then she is taking the piss IMO, if work on your house was causing structural damage to the adjoining bit of her house, it would be a completely different situation.
Summer heatwave (or something else not you are not responsible for) has caused structural damage to the other side of her house and she's trying to use work done to your home as a way of getting it fixed for free.
IANAL , but this looks like a simple case of telling her to jog on and IMO you were rather silly to say you would even consider covering the damage in the first place without advice from professionals at her expense.
I had a look at said cracks this afternoon when I went round to speak to them – they are all hairline cracks. In my opinion caulk would do the job fine – its only cosmetic plaster cracking not the actual bricks underneath.
Caulk doesn't fill plaster fine... plaster fills plaster... and unless you can see the bricks underneath you aren't certain but it doesn't need to be the bricks themselves, it could just be the mortar. Quite how caulk is fine escapes me... even as a patch job you want some proper filler not caulk..
As has been said if it was settlement you would expect some new cracking in my house – which there is none – it may be due to vibration I will concede.
You might or might not.... your new parts are new... the plaster is still damp ... the old parts might yet.
Our kitchen does this periodically... (since we moved in) ... for me I just fill the cracks then repaint and in cases re-plaster entire walls and repaint. Its all at one side more or less.
The thing is I'm both confident and happy re-plastering... but I'm also waiting for the settlement to finish before I completely replaster the most affected walls.
I really want to make good this for them – I just feel that they have gone to an expensive tradesperson – told them they are not paying we are and he has gone to town.
Yep... but then why wouldn't they? What guarantees are they offering (non)...
Everyperson who has seen the cracking i.e. my builder (not impartial i realise) and building control feel that the price quoted is ridiculous.
Hopefully our tradesperson can come up with a more reasonable quote – if he comes back the same then I guess we have to suck it up.
Well, I'd be getting 3-4 quotes... and let them know that the cheapest reasonable one will be selected but you are still to some extent open indefinitely... (well next few years)...
A different strategy would be to suggest that the current stuff is cosmetically taken care of (but not caulk) and a independent survey then checks in a year or when a surveyor thinks is the right time that sign-off can occur.
If you are right and this is a few cracks in plaster and due to vibrations then no further work will be required...
"Our builder at the time said it was nothing."
Can't get pass this line tbh!
One option might be to tell her that when you thought it would be a very cheap job you were happy to pay without asking questions, but since the work is so substantial you'd like an independent expert opinion to verify the damage was likely to be caused by your work.
Use the high quote to justify more investigation which hopefully will completely let you off the hook in a way that doesn't upset the neighbour.
Not read page two but agree with those saying filling any cracks with caulk is a bodge job. Any decorator worth bothering with will not use caulk on a crack in plaster.
That being said, depending on the size of the crack and if it's as minor as you say any decent decorator should be able to make it look as good as new without the need to replaster and her quote sounds bonkers.
Not sure if it's been said or not but this is down to your builder to cover, or at least his public liability cover.
There's some right pro's on this thread.
Fine cracks are best filled with a fine surface filler then the whole wall will need to be painted and cut in to existing walls to avoid "flashing" which can be caused when just painting a small area. Caulk is not a bodge when used for the right application, fine cracks are not best treated with caulk.
Sudden settlement cracks don't suddenly appear on the opposite side of a house unless they've dropped a royal bollock when installing the rsj.
Sudden settlement cracks don’t suddenly appear on the opposite side of a house unless they’ve dropped a royal bollock when installing the rsj.
If you look at it from the neighbours perspective someone comes along rips half the walls out of the house next door then cracks start to appear in yours.
The two may or may not be connected. If they are the OPs builders/architects insurance should pay out if not the neighbours home insurance will. Either way the nature of the cracks and the cause would need to be established.
Without any knowledge of the house structure, underlying support materials, nature of the work carried out or even location or pictures of the cracks everything is just noise
You might or might not…. your new parts are new… the plaster is still damp … the old parts might yet.
The old parts already had cracks in the places she is complaining about before we moved in, exactly the same places. We haven't replastered the whole house just the bits that have been built and filled in the electrical chases with bonding and aims
