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Most of my cycling interactions tend to be with MCWs as they're the demographic most likely to be out and about in the countryside.
A lot of entitlement about. I try my best to ignore them. Interacting with my thick, working class, brummie accent seems to irritate them all the more.
Ah yes the ones who move to the opposite side of the path to their dog are almost my favourite but I save top spot to those who call their dog across once you are within a couple of feet rather than leave it where it is.
I noticed when I used to go mountain biking that the sorts of people who were often calling you out for some spurious offence, shooting you dirty looks or generally getting the hump about something were often, to my mind, the exact same people who would cross the road to avoid me if I was walking home from the pub or I had met them in literally any other context.
These days I do a bit of trail running as well as cycling and I often feel more relaxed doing it as it seems to be the only activity that doesn’t offend somebody or other.
Bit surprised anyone above the age of about 25 hasn't figured out that there are dicks in all walks of life.
tjagain
Full Member
“Neds” surely you mean “schemies” ?Ohhh – now thats interesting. Whats the difference? Schemie more pejorative
Schemie is just a term for someone brought up on a council housing estate or in Scotland a scheme.
I was a schemie.
NED on the other hand belongs to Bill Knox and Crimedesk on STV in the 70s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_(Scottish)
I really **** hate bells
On the way home from work last week I gave a cheery 'just passing you' to a couple wandering up the NCN7 - to which she stated 'get a bell!' and he stated 'oh, I prefer voices. I hate bells'.
Cannot win!
My only guess is a first date and they have different views?
Preconceptions are funny things. The reality is often the mirror of what you'd expect, IME.
Back in my tech support days, the worst people to deal with were what you might call "professionals." Doctors, teachers, lawyers, that sort of thing. It may well be an entitlement issue as TJ suggests; I always chalked it down to not being able to handle being told what to do.
On discovering that I used to drink at the local biker bar, my cousin commented "OMG you don't go in there do you? It's full of drugs and fighting!" I never saw any drugs and you'd have to have had a death wish to pick a fight in the Hope & Anchor. Places like that tend to be somewhat self-policing. The only bar brawls I ever saw were in rural pubs and faux-upmarket places like Yates' Wine Bar.
Consequences. As a sensi of mine used to say, the world was a more respectful place when everyone wore a sword on their hip.
Ah, that would be why large swathes of America is frightfully polite.
Not rung your bell. I know, I know, but to some that’s a red rag.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I've lost count of the number of times I've slowly ridden up behind a group, dinging away like a Hyundai seatbelt alarm when you've left a grape on the passenger seat, to be met with "where's your bell?"
On the way home from work last week I gave a cheery ‘just passing you’ to a couple wandering up the NCN7 – to which she stated ‘get a bell!’ and he stated ‘oh, I prefer voices. I hate bells’.
Solution: ride up behind them yelling "DING!" 😁
Solution: ride up behind them yelling “DING!”
Depends on the attractiveness of the couple: expand to a 'ding! dong!'...
I know loads of middle-class kids who dress like “roadmen”, call each other chav/chavvie etc. they’re just following fashion/urban culture. They’re not actually drug-dealers/yobs/petty criminals.
I have a special hatred for the 30 something's that talk like characters in Phone Shop.
Came across a classes of primary kids walking in the country on a windy day. Had to shout to make myself heard didn't really go down well. Got asked if I didn't have a bell. Then half the kids started making ding ding noises. Leading teachers jumped when I shouted excuse me so more remarks. That was fun. Usually rarely see anyone.
These angry dogwalkers are probably people who realised that they cant walk their dog while sitting in the drivers seat of their Audi/BMW/Tesla and are just taking out their natural rage on cyclists.
These angry dogwalkers are probably people who realised that they cant walk their dog while sitting in the drivers seat of their Audi/BMW/Tesla and are just taking out their natural rage on cyclists.
Yes let's judge people we don't know by their choice of car, that makes a lot of sense and doesn't sound at all like a chip on shoulder type comment. In fact I can now see what they mean by "angry cyclists".
Can I add another middle-class impolite moment?
Last night's campsite - full to bursting. The family with the biggest van and awning, two nearly new 'premium' cars. They decide at 8pm to break out the bagpipes and 2x drums so thier kids can seranade the whole site. For 40 bloomin minutes, while mum and dad video it and look oddly at anyone heading to drop kids off at the pool rather than fawn over thier pipe band.
One of the caravans in our section had just put down the twin toddlers...not happy is an understatement.
Same pipe van when I went to loos at 10pm had gaggle of teens playing cards in the awning, and just like my kids they were making a massive racket when they play.
TBF, at 10.30 on the dot they quietened down.
Just seems in appropriate on a campsite...
faux-upmarket places like Yates’ Wine Bar.
Blimey they must have changed. I thought they were firmly in the dog rough category.
These are the only Neds I care about.
TBF, at 10.30 on the dot they quietened down.
Just seems in appropriate on a campsite…
Whilst that would annoy the piss out of me also, if someone is expecting silence from an entire campsite at 8pm because they have toddlers then they probably shouldn't have been on a campsite in the first place. At 2am I'd have considerably more sympathy.
I've had Edinburgh folk on paths stare me in the eye and ignore my cheery hello. Most city folk at least pretend to ignore you by looking in the other way.
There is a reason that if I prefer to ride early or late. The pre/post lunch folk are the worst to maneuver around.
Ain't nowt queerer than folk. Just look them hooligans dressed like power rangers riding their bikes in a dangerous way in the woods. They should know better at their age. 😉
My route out to the Peaks is through parks, some of which have designated cycle paths. I've had a variety of comments and old-fashioned looks but was quite flattered by 'you're going too fast' for someone of advanced years. Anyway, I've just fitted a bell and am intrigued by comments above and a bit apprehensive about how it will go down.
Incidentally, are 'Neds' more of a lumpen proletarian counterculture rather than a subculture? 'Middle class' is a confusion caused by the 'moral value' put on classifying a job by TCH Stephenson in the 1911 census. You're either an empoyee or an employer, both can have dogs.
I think there's a fairly simple explanation.
Middle class... read the Daily Heil, tory hypocrotical xenophobes, whom, despite not being the The Landed, still kow tow to the upper classes and think bikers shouldn't be allowed.
(Yet by the same logic THEY shouldn't be walkimg on land stolen from the masses and given to cronies in the 17+18 hundreds. That seems totally lost on them).
Just me? Just Edinburgh or is this a wider phenomenon?
Just Edinburgh. In Milngavie I have had nothing but politeness and resonable behaviour from other users of shared paths. Same on the likes of the Kelvin Walkway. Give and take by everyone.
Yes, it sounds that way.
Barthes would approve of your post.
I bet Barthes was run over by that lorry after stepping into road to avoid a fresh dog egg
I remember an old couple having a 'go' for me not ringing my bell. I politely replied, "I did, THREE TIMES".
Deaf coots !
I bet Barthes was run over by that lorry after stepping into road to avoid a fresh dog egg
That would make the semiotics of his death even neater as it was a laundry van! Bloody Sorbonnard as Poujade must have said!
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat
Worth remembering. Most people in the UK (I could be wrong - but I genuinely feel, and often think about) live 'in the gray twilight' of life - no hobbies to speak of, etc. Not really much point to their lives. People like 'us' - visibly enjoying themselves partaking in a pastime, whilst simultaneously working our cardio system, is probably a pretty alien thing. It's a sad reality really. But to maximise the experience of life, one has to constantly push - whether that be physically, or pushing oneself out the door to chase a hobby, etc.
Ramble but I feel it's somewhat relevant
Neds (is this a scottish word? I assume you mean chavs?) probably live a more enjoyable life than most weird, dull middle class people who try and look posh in an expensive pub.
Ned is scottish. similar to Chav but perhaps a smaller and more distinct subculture
So what are the distinctions?
NED- Non Educated Delinquent
CHAV - Council House And Violent.
Perhaps more distinct as in more obvious / clearly demarcated - but as above actually quite hard to define.
This is a pair of neds Note the tipped back baseball cap and bottle of buckie
NED- Non Educated Delinquent
thats made up after the fact - some discussion on the origins of the word in earlier posts
Middle class… read the Daily Heil, tory hypocrotical xenophobes
Well according to Stevenson middle class means those who are not working class or upper class. I would hazard a guess that a large proportion of them are in fact Guardian readers.
Yesterday’s ride was Milngavie, Westie, John Muir Way, Croftamie area, so very much in the posh part of the West.
Huge amount of rude folks on foot tbh. As a dog owner I’m always very considerate, slowing, stopping, talking to the dog etc. My primary observation yesterday though was not so much around localish folks with dogs, more the Easter weekend walkers and some real pretentious behaviours and just plain rudeness about sharing some space with other people.
I had a back wheel failure and had to call my wife to rescue me from the bike shop in Killearn, where I had a pleasant hour getting high on Keith’s coffee 👌🤪
We got buzzed a cracker on way home by a blue McLaren on the GSO, we were going around 70 ish, it must’ve been doing 130 plus, maybe a Ned or Chav ? 😁
Class definitions. We have the maxist one ie bourgeoisie or proletariat or the social economic ones - upper middle and lower class. Take your pick
Our local canal towpaths aren't too bad for riding along, because we live in a very outdoor type place. However the rudest lot are mainly dog owners. These are mostly the type who haven't had a dog before and can't be bothered training it, don't have the time to train it or just want a cute fur baby and sod everybody else. There are lots of dog owners who know how to train a dog, are friendly and always say hello. Not noticed their class though.
It's been busy with a lot of visitors over the last few days, especially in the nice weather and they don't seem to be able to say hello.
Class definitions
... haven't been a thing for a while, at best it's a spectrum. How do you differentiate between upper working class and lower middle class? What about non-working class, the neds you were talking about?
I believe chav was originally a Romany word meaning young child or toddler used as an insult for young men.
Aye. As these things almost always are, the whole "council house" blah blah is a backronym.
I'm sure it's all been covered in the last four pages but it's definitely a thing in Edinburgh. The fancier the bit of town you're riding through, the greater the sense of entitlement dog walkers and people of a certain age in particular have.
Dogs are a general menace but in less fancy bits of town people seem more courteous and more aware, rather than walking toward you three abreast with a cocker spaniel tearing about and showing complete ignorance of the cyclist riding towards them on the edge of the path ringing their bell. When they eventually decide to do something the dog ignores all calls but they don't do anything about actually moving their arses and going to get it or grabbing it by the collar and dragging it out of everyone else's way.
People also tend to walk on the left of the path more in less fancy areas, like they should (and like the signs tell them to) but in, say, Polwarth or Ravelston it's a bloody free for all. In fact, in Wester Hailes someone keeps going to the effort of guerilla marking the left of the path with direction arrows.
It's the same with cyclists too. Ned riding a shitty bike slowly minding their own business, fine. Middle aged guy tearing home to Craiglockhart yells at folk about their lights and stuff. And I know you do that TJ. My wife points out it's always men. The lights may be a bit dazzling but a man riding towards a woman yelling at her is genuinely intimidating and scary.
Runners are a pain too. If two people are walking toward each other on the shared path and there's no room to pass til they've crossed each other, or if a cyclist has rung their bell and entered the tiny space under a canal bridge, wait. Don't barge through. And take your earphones out so you can hear bells and other people. That doesn't happen in the rough bits of town either.
Cool starry bra: I graduated from Sunderland early 2000s and heard the term 'charver' a lot while up there but don't recall ever hearing chav, as when back home in Kent a short while later remember hearing chav in use and assumed people were just getting charver all wrong. So thought it weird that the 'a' in both was the inverse pronunciation of more general 'a' ie 'charver' up north and 'chav' down south. shrug.
What always surprises me about impromptu abuse is how people have it primed and ready to go on the tip of their tongue. I'm not talking about generic all-purpose swearing, rather bespoke abuse for the situation.
There’s an awesome amount of confirmation bias on this thread
The 'wrong-uns' round my way certainly have a dress code.
The trakky bottoms can be black, or grey with visible stains on them, and if they cant afford a fake north face puffa jacket, then a plain black hoodie from primark is acceptable... the dress code isn't too strict.
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And I know you do that TJ. My wife points out it’s always men. The lights may be a bit dazzling but a man riding towards a woman yelling at her is genuinely intimidating and scary.
Hmm - I just shout - "point your light down - its dazzling" and I cannot tell if its a man or a woman because of the dazzle. I dont shout abuse - just to ask them not to dazzle
Interesting that yo see the same phenomenon re the entitlement tho