Poverty. Hugely manipulated. There are definitions which include having the money for a holiday. Even TMH linked definition of absolute poverty isn't absolute it's benchmarked against the median income. So for example as pensions rise poverty goes up. As someone with Indian relavtives and having travelled extensively in Asia poverty here is very minor in relation.
We all have a social conscience imo, the issue is how do we pay the bills ?
Look at Greece, very generous payments until .... the music stopped along with their ability to keep borrowing money
On the subject of foodbanks....and don't get me wrong here, I think they are doing a great job for a lot of people. However...if theres a foodbank down the road and I'm a bit skint, then I'd probably nip in there to see what was up for grabs. If it wasn't there, I wouldn't.
So its not surprising that more people are using foodbanks is it? They never existed before!
edit:sorry Jim, just spotted your post above saying similar.
However...if theres a foodbank down the road and I'm a bit skint, then I'd probably nip in there to see what was up for grabs. If it wasn't there, I wouldn't.So its not surprising that more people are using foodbanks is it? They never existed before!
You can't just turn up and fill your boots. You need to be referred and will be given a voucher for so many days provision. My MiL volunteers in a food bank. Believe me they are both a much needed safety net and last resort for those who use them.
In addition to the above I should also say that I am deeply ashamed to live in a so-called first world country where food banks are deemed necessary and are now seemingly accepted as the norm.
if theres a foodbank down the road and I'm a bit skint, then I'd probably nip in there to see what was up for grabs
oh, see how out of touch you are? Food banks don't work like that...
I expect Carney will push up interest rates soon to control inflation as all this extra money floods into the economy.
Look at Greece, very generous payments until .... the music stopped along with their ability to keep borrowing money
Is there a rule, like Godwins, for people who shoehorn Brexit themes into any and every conversation.
D'oh!
EVB and coyote - who is denying that life is shit for some folk, and the reasons can be out of their control or that its acceptable to have a need for foodbanks?
When Carney does raise rates, there will be v real problems with indebtedness.
Major factor in these disagreements is the reliance on [s]stats.[/s] anecdotes/extrapolation
FTFY
oh, see how out of touch you are? Food banks don't work like that...
well of course I'm out of touch....I'm fortunate not to think about using one.
I'm probably out of touch with a lot of other things too, so whats your point??
I'm probably out of touch with a lot of other things too, [b]so whats your point?? [/b]
That you're out of touch? 💡
I think the point is to educate yourself before spouting DWP falsehoods and getting shot down?
Such as the massive increase in food bank use, just to use one example.
Free food? Of course if you offer free food people will take it. The only person I know who uses a food bank also spends a fair amount on weed every month. Is the foodbank subsidising his drug habit?
No surprise. Rich people arguing poverty isn't as bad as it really is and its the manipulation of figures....
Wow IRC, one example of gaming the system over 500000 or so genuine cases.
Edit, possibly gaming the system, we don't know the guys true story, just some anecdotal "bloke down the pub sez" horseshit
And of course, nothing like the reality of food bank users, often to ashamed to ask for help until almost forced to go for help...
If it's free food, why don't you rock up and claim yours.
Report back here on how you fair
No surprise. Rich people arguing poverty isn't as bad as it really is and its the manipulation of figures....
EVB perhaps you missed the irony in the OP's point, or simply choosing to make it for him!?!
Wow IRC, one example of gaming the system over 500000 or so genuine cases.
What? Checked them all have you?
Have you?
Defensive, much?
Isn't neo-liberalism great? All at each others throats so divide and conquer can prevail for the haves in our society.
Isn't neo-liberalism great? All at each others throats so divide and conquer can prevail for the haves in our society.
Indeed...
Or to put it another way, we are all so busy worrying about how many are cheating the system that we don't notice how many the system cheats.
Or to put it another way, we are all so busy worrying about how many are cheating the system that we don't notice how many the system cheats.
Agree.
Call me soft but one child in poverty is too many. Poverty is morally acceptable when there is no surplus in the system. We have a significant surplus in the global economy - yet people go hungry, die from preventable disease and fight over 'limited' resources that are not limited. Whether a child's parent works or does not - how is this situation justifiable?
who is denying that life is shit for some folk, [b][u]and the reasons can be out of their control[/b][/u] or that its acceptable to have a need for foodbanks
So why screw them further through unfair assessment for work procedures and slashing benefits for already vulnerable people? Why not go after the Philip Greens of this world, you know the "wealth creators" so beloved of the right.
What Coyote sed.
There seems to be an attitude that we blame those with the need rather than those who could help alleviate the need but chose not to.
Very simple Fred
Playing the ball or the man ?
Call me soft but one child in poverty is too many. Poverty is morally acceptable when there is no surplus in the system. We have a significant surplus in the global economy - yet people go hungry, die from preventable disease and fight over 'limited' resources that are not limited. Whether a child's parent works or does not - how is this situation justifiable?
Don't be silly, we can justify it be stigmatising them as scroungers and de-humanising them.
Rope the right wing press in to help and it's job done.
DrJ - MemberVery simple Fred
Playing the ball or the man ?
You'll get nowhere on this forum softening your words with sports-themed analogies 😉
fwiw i find clodhopper's arguing style vastly different from freddibnah/rudeboy. (*waves 😀 )
Unless its 'fred' used in the parlance of bikesnob.nyc?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37992488 ]everything is hunky dory in UKPLC[/url]
Klunk, any fool knows that (alongside sufferers of severe and enduring mental illness, and those with moderate to severe learning difficulties,) the very infirm elderly and people with Alzheimer's don't vote in the numbers that more physically and mentally well elderly people do. So looking after these people properly doesn't really help you win elections.
Being lobbied by care contractors might though. 🙁
So why screw them further through unfair assessment for work procedures and slashing benefits for already vulnerable people? Why not go after the Philip Greens of this world, you know the "wealth creators" so beloved of the right.
Why indeed?
Who is supporting unfair assessment on this thread?
Ditto slashing benefits? The only real issue is if/when benefits become a disincentive to work/penalise work, since most agree that work is the best route out of poverty. But there have been no posts on that topic.
Action is being taken against the likes of Philip Green - where the law permits - and against tax evasion, albeit not enough agreed.
So anyway what has this all got to do with the good news on employment - this is the positive foundation on what most of us actually agree on in terms of outcomes?
since most agree that work is the best route out of poverty. But there have been no posts on that topic.
I bet the 3 million working poor in Britain might not agree.
They might not, true.
Work is merely a starting point - well that's not true, education is the starting point. The JRF sums it up well
Katie Schmuecker from JRF said: “Work is the best route to economic security and a better standard of living and we welcome record levels of employment. But, as well as more jobs, [b]we need better jobs so all families can benefit from economic growth. [/b]Despite working full time hours, more families are still falling short of what they need to make ends meet. We need the state and business to ensure people in work can achieve economy and security.
The ends are agreed, if not the means. Personally, I think relying on the state to provide the answers is a long shot. It (here and elsewhere) has preferred the long established supposed-panacea of benefits as a band-aid to address the symptoms rather than addressing the root causes.
There's little there I can disagree with.
But until employers and corporate types step up to the plate and pay a living wage, on the 4th of Never as that will hurt the shareholder dividend i'll add
Until the Rentier classes stop seeing any steps towards the above being an excuse to increase profit
Until workers and unemployed workers realise their true power, unite, organise and form the ability to bring change or even ruination to the above by simply downing tools or civil disobedience en masse
Until all of the above realise there will always be an element of society unable to participate in paid employment for a host of reasons, and this group will need subsidy from all of us who are able. And lets stop this lie that there are elements of this group who are ****less, idle, bring nothing to the table of society.
EVERYBODY contributes in some way, The gutter press go out of their way to find the fraction of a percent who by some misdeed on that partcular week seem on the face of things to prove otherwise.
Until that day, we need enlightened government legislature to protect the weak, to cap the runaway greed, and yes make sure that employment is always better than a life on benefits.
ulysee - how about until people stop distorting reality, debate and progress becomes impossible.
Indeed, how about people stop distorting reality...
Finally, something we can all agree on.
😆
Absolutely, thm
how about until people stop distorting reality
But so many of them have direct and indirect vested interests not to mention petty jealously, pleasure from other peoples suffering, keeping up appearances and onupmanship to make sure that day never comes.
pleasure from other peoples suffering,
Really ? 😐
Really?
Don't panic, it's only Chester and he has previous on these threads!
OK 😐
Fraid so jamba. Pissing on other peoples chips is a hobby to some.
"Playing the ball or the man ?"
"Unless its 'fred' used in the parlance of bikesnob.nyc?"
I'm curious as to why both THM and Binners have been using 'Fred' in response to my posts. I'm assuming this may be some sort of forum 'in-joke', with which I am not familiar. It definitely seems to be some sort of personal jibe directed against me. Which I find somewhat disappointing; I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, but resorting to personal digs just shows up the weakness of your own argument, position and character.
Having read up on the bike snob nyc definition, I am still none the wiser. I really don't think that applies to me!
" how about until people stop distorting reality, debate and progress becomes impossible."
How about that?
"I'd bet that if that person actually went and spent some time with people in a homeless persons hostel, soup kitchen, mental health ward, walked the streets taking the time to get to get to know the lives and back stories of these people they have an opinion on, said opinion would change and you'd realise life is shit out there for many many people (which is unacceptable in a country with so much money)...and a lot of it is because of issues that are out of their control."
Very well said. It's hard to distort reality when you've seen it up close and personal.
As for 'work is the best route to economic security', well, how d'you explain the rising numbers of families in work, but needing to claim benefits? It's not the work itself that is the key to economic emancipation, it's the opportunities for progression through employment, individual development and a recognition of the value of that individual, that is one of the best routes to economic security. Increasing numbers of jobs are lower and lower skilled, there is very little if any opportunity for progression with many jobs, meaning that someone can be stuck on shit wages for ever, and never get out of the poverty trap. People with years of service can end up being made redundant, as companies simply don't want to increase their wages in line with the number of years they've put in, and can simply replace them with another younger person on minimum wage. If there is no development for the individual, they stagnate and cannot move upwards.
"pleasure from other peoples suffering""Really ?"
Really. See Phillip Green. Etc.
"work is the best route to economic security"
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So we have now gone from positive economic data on the UK labour market to Aushwitz!
And in only four pages - amazing.
And in only four pages - amazing.
Just last year, it would have taken ten pages and a couple of flounces.
You can't stop progress.
