[Closed] My son got in trouble at school - for making a (sort of) religious joke...

your bang on mate.
have a visit.

has it been established what the kid who made the gesture meant - in my experience it means 'you are a willyhead'.

Well both of you have found out something new about other people.
Is it "punishment" or an opportunity to learn?

Sounds a bit odd ( the teacher making such a point)but are you risking making a mountain out of a molehill yourself?

YOu be chilled about it and maybe your kid will be.

Speak to the teacher so you have all the facts. Kids can sometimes be a bit economical with the truth as I'm sure you are aware.

The gesture is apparently what they have to do when they have an idea.

aP - explain? Who have we learnt about? [b]HE[/b] obviously has been taught the Hindi connection by the school, they do a fair bit of multi-cultural education (eg. he knows what diwali is).

One of the kids made a circle sign with their thumb & forefinger in front of their forehead

That sign meant something completly different at our school 😉

DezB - does seem a bit ott, would make me wonder if there was more to the story tbh?

I think your over reacting.

Do you know the exact context of what happened?

and what is wrong with asking your son to research and comeback and explain? It helps him understand other cultures rather than learning through hearsay?

We used to take the piss out of 'top-knots' at school. Which wasn't fair or right.

If your child feels stressed about it, I'd go in and have a word with the teacher

So explain to me what was so offensive about your 8 year olds question? Personally I think it was quite perceptive of him to associate that gesture with being a hindu. Nothing wrong that I can see.
Oh and they're 8 years old FFS! That teacher needs to chill a bit IMHO.

And so do you now.
I think you're winding yourself up over nothing - why not just think, "well I learnt something new" and get on with the rest of your life.

Isn't that the international dickhead sign?
perhaps they should be talking to the other lad.

My parents never came to school. Even when I had a fight. Thank ****.

I had to find my own way and learn my lessons the hard ways. 🙂

We had something similar earlier this term - my son was having the piss taken out of him for his middle name (Lesley, my grandfathers name) by a muslim classmate, who Josh considers to be one of his friends, but for some reason it went too far that day, and Josh ended up saying "Christians didn't cause 9/11". The other pupil also alledges that Josh went on to spout other stuff about bombing ****stan etc, which josh denies, but basically the school treated what he said about 9/11 as a racist comment.

I got called in at the time of the incident, and found my son very upset and being forced to write a statement about the event in the company of a teaching assistant, while the other kid was sat in the head teachers office.

CBA'd with that school anymore, and if he wasn't so close to high school, he's year 5 now, I'd move him. School let bullying persist for 12 months before finally doing something about it, and when the incident above happened Josh describes being dragged by his arm by one of the lunchtime assistants who then proceeded to scream & rant at him.

Schools will always overreact whenever they are worried that "racism" or an ethinic minority group would respond badly to a situation. We went to see the head, wrote in about the lunchtime assistant, wrote to the head of education services in the local authority (who took a month to respond).

hora - I didn't realise you ever went to school? 😆

you are definately over-reacting.

i think the teacher is absolutely right to ensure that your child knows what the words he is using mean, while double checking that he is not just copying a (potentially) racist comment he may have picked up at home.

oldgit - Member

Isn't that the international dickhead sign?

Looks like we went to the school OG 😉

[img] [/img]

yeah surely what has happened is the teacher thinks your son is suggesting all hindu's are ****heads ?

Where as what it is he just doesnt know what the sign means.

I used to have a Teacher called Mr. Condon. As he said on the first day it is pronounced like "LON-DON".

I was 10/11 at the time but still pretty naïve and I was never very good at English anyway.

Several times I remember him looking at me very angrily then suddenly smiling/laughing when he saw the confused look in my face.

I can only imagine I was calling him Mr.Condom but Id never heard the word before.

Edit ::
I went to secondary soon after and around the same time his kids went to another secondary school. Soon after I heard he'd changed the whole family name to Connor.

[i]teacher is absolutely right to ensure that your child knows what the words he is using mean[/i]

That's my point (well, one of them) - the school have taught him that already! Otherwise it would never have come into his mind.

Yeah, I guess I'm overreacting a little - but to see your child in tears about something so pathetic does wind you up.
I agree Hora, I don't believe in going to the school to challenge teachers' judgement - they usually discipline a child for the right reasons. Not in this case though.
He told me he doesn't want me talking to the teacher or writing to them because I'll "make things complicated" !! (Who knows!)

I can see your point OP but I do think there is a case for trusting the teacher. Im not saying this is the case with you but some parents seem unable to allow teachers any means of diciplining their child, and in my opinion this leads to kids having no respect for authority.
Id consider going in to support your child in explaining what they said and why.It does sound like your child has an open and inquiring mind, but others do not, Bindis are still worn by Hindu women, and they are used as a focus for racist abuse, weve all heard the jokes. The teacher was probably unsure and wanting clarification.

"Christians didn't cause 9/11"

That's an interesting one; factually true but of the unstated part of that statement is that the perpetrators did what they did [i]because [/i]they were Muslim.

That's worthy of debate, though possible not in a primary school 😯

Surely the first thing to do is establish what the other lad was signing? its more than likely that he was calling your son a DH, which is direct abuse.

I think your kid deserves congratulating for being quite sharp with a come back to the international DHead sign.

[i]Surely the first thing to do is establish what the other lad was signing?[/i]

I've explained this further up mate. Keep up. 😉 (btw, it was a girl, which makes the bindi joke even better, I've just realised!)

hora - I didn't realise you ever went to school?

I didn't. I went to Royds Hall 😆

Oh God I'm confused. so she made a sign Hidus use and your lad picked up on it correctly. So the lass only had to reply yes or no. Am I over simplifying things here.

[i]Am I over simplifying things here. [/i]

yes, she made the schools 'I've had an idea' sign and he chose to ask her if she was a Hindu.

Could have been worse he could have said 'are you implying I'm some sort of dickhead?' and then DezB woudl be at the school explainign how his son knew that and not looking up Bindi's on wikipedia.

Ah so its the schools sign and not a Hindu sign, is that right?

[i]Could have been worse he could have said 'are you implying I'm some sort of dickhead?'[/i]

Obviously, his humour is far more sophisticated than mine 🙂

[edit](yes, oldgit, it's the school's "I have an idea" sign - though not usually in front of the forehead)

oldgit - Member
......more than likely that he was calling your son a DH, which is direct abuse.

we need to know if the boy is a bit of a DH first.
but i digress.

He's not, are you?

I've got a meeting in a minute... what do you reckon... shall I use this 'I've got an idea' sign?

It's w stupid idea that could go horribly wrong.....oh it just has.

TSY, Yes and just in case people dont notice, move your hand back and forth away from your head.

Excellent, it's a meeting regarding someones forecast to the end of the financial year. My thoughts and the idea sign could be very well alligned.

Am I missing the point?

A girl in the school made a gesture which (whilst seemingly odd to me) everyone at that school would have recognised as meaning "I've got an idea". She did it in a peculiar manner (at her forehead) which your son choose to use as the basis for a "joke".

He then cracked a "joke", which alluded to the wearing(?) of Bindi by Hindu women. The teacher thought the joke was inappropriate for the class room setting, but rather than give him some pointless, useless exercise like writing out "I must not make racist jokes" or "I will not disrupt the class with silly attempts at humour" 50 times, she's asked him to go and learn the significance of Bindi and explain it to her?

You are upset because your child is upset. I don't understand why your son's upset though, he needs to learn to MTFU or Shut-TFU.

(yes, oldgit, it's the school's "I have an idea" sign - though not usually in front of the forehead)

Whatever happened to sticking your hand up in the air?

Poly +1

I recall receiving detention for saying "Damn!" in my RE class. I wrote a few hundred times: "I will not swear in class". I did not realise it was a swear word. My parents were cool about the detention. Hey ho and no harm done.

Your son cracks a religious joke and gets made to look up what he was actually making fun of as a "punishment".
This is bad how?

100% agree with Hora
kids these days need to KTFU

Yes, Poly, very well summarised. Obviously it was not a "racist" joke (I'm sure you didn't mean that it was). I'd be surprised if he'd managed to develop any racist leanings at such a young age. He once, said "That man's black" very loudly in a supermarket, but I think he was just stating a fact, like 3 year old's do.

Fourbanger - he wasn't making fun of anybody.

I'll go home, slap him round the head and tell him to KTFU.

All input much appreciated 🙂

Right back in the warm at a computer, not freezing on site fumbling with an iphone.
I hope they deal with this in a better way than my sons school dealt with him.
Polly might recall this. My son aged 10 said to a black lad (the only black boy in the school)who was irritatingly play fighting my son 'who do you think you are, blacky Chan?'
Whoop whoop whoop, red alert, defcon one, shut down, no one leave the building. My son was hauled to the headmistresses office by a dinner lady.
Long and short of it was he was expelled.
The kids parents wanted more done, though God knows what.
He was branded a racist.
He couldn't play for his football club.
Friends were suddenly not allowed to our home.
I had meetings with the school and I let my feelings known. IMO they had no experience of dealing with racial issues.
You see my son and daughter are the only white kids in our extended family. He's cousin tags himself as 'Blacky Chan' on facebook ect and is known as that by his friends.
Yes my lad used it as a put down, but it was ironic statement because the name is used to call kids who are 'a bit handy'
I tried to get the schools representatives to look it up, it's every wherein modern culture.
Anyway, the point is school was to quick to over react and the part time staff i.e dinner ladies did not keep it confidential, by that afternoon we were getting calls and visits from concerned/nosey parents.
I finally spoke to the parents of the lad, and I got it through to them that he wasn't a racist, but he was overly confident in relationships with black kids, and unaware that you can't be familiar with those you don't know.
The stigma lasted about two years and he is very good friends with the lad now.

[i]I hope they deal with this in a better way than my sons school dealt with him[/i]

Yep, I reckon they have!

Obviously it was not a "racist" joke

+1 for that. People have taken leave of their senses if they think the joke was racsit.

Long and short of it was he was expelled.

Are you serious?

Much as I hate this, but TJ is bang on.

TandemJeremy - Member

Sounds a bit odd ( the teacher making such a point)but are you risking making a mountain out of a molehill yourself?

YOu be chilled about it a

I called my maths teacher a slut...well technically I wrote in on my pencil case.

I had to write a short explanation of what I thought a 'slut' was...that got me in more trouble, and I kind of think they wished they hadn't asked.

On a related note, I drew an enormous penis on my friends geography folder, and the teacher saw it. I got called to the headmasters office for that one, i then got shouted at when he asked my "what the hell is this", and i told him it was a penis. He said, "don't you get funny with me boy", that confused me a bit.

The seats outside his office used to make farting noises when you sat on them...why have seats like that if you're going to shout at me for sitting up and down on them.

The moral of my rambling, is that teachers don't really know what they're doing when it comes to discipline, and are too worried about following 'the rules'. Nowadays anything related to racism will be jumped on and the school will be too worried about 'doing the right thing' rather than doing the sensible thing.

[i]are you risking making a mountain out of a molehill yourself?[/i]

Yes, that is a risk - but my potential over-reaction is purely because of the religious aspect of it. The (as has been discussed in great length on here) reglious' "right to be offended".
I'm certainly not going to take it any further if, once he's delivered his "A red dot on an Asian lady's forehead is called a Bindi, Miss. It is a decorative item, although in the past had religious connotations in the Hindu religion. Miss" speech, the issue is closed.

Send him to school with the idea the 3 wise men brought gold, frankincense and no more nails as presents. They'll soon forget about the Hindu remark. 😉

LOL@ doug

Maybe, just maybe the 'rules' are getting in the way of discipline?

Tell your kid to check what it means and the importance of it. Just in case.
Tell the teacher to shut the trap and concentrate on teaching instead of raising your kid.
Write to the head complaining about your kid being victimised by the teacher.
OR
Go face-to-face with the teacher, tell them they're an idiot and should get laid as their lack of sex in life affects the quality of their work.

Is that before or after I've done my Bikeability course?

Oh how I long for the day when you didn't tell your parents when you'd had a bollocking at school for fear of what the old fella would do when he found out...

So OP how about just trusting the teachers judgement rather than assuming that he/she is some politcally correct paedophile predating on the innocents? Or is it too much to presume that anything born of your seed may indeed have done something warranting a minor disciplinary?

I'd counsel being chilled about it too.

EDIT: Somewhere between "chilled" and BermBandit 🙂

Is that before or after I've done my Bikeability course?

That's a really sad story oldgit, I one which I struggle to believe (although I'm sure it's true) It just makes me think how lucky it is that I am not at school now.........I would be in even worst trouble than I was 😯

Love the "blacky Chan" put down btw.......got to try and remember that one 😀

Best post so far! Thanks for the laugh Berm Bandit 😆

I remember back when the Spice Girls were 'popular' that they were used to highlight the difference between a racist joke and a joke that was predicated on race but not racist (I think it was in response to Mrs. Winterton's telling of a racist joke at a dinner party).

The person making the point (this was on Radio 4 IIRC) simply told the following joke to illustrate a joke that used race without being racist.

Q. What do you call four dogs and a black bird?

A. The Spice Girls

I still find that funny but I may now get banned........

You sound a bit more chilled already, out of interest where is this school. I only ask because I don't think my kid would have gone through that in the areas my wife and I schooled - London and Leeds.
I did blame them for their Beds/Bucks and Herts middle class overly PC niceness. Whilst all the time aware they probably thought I was the local BNP candidate 😕

When I was at primary school I was in a group of friends, one lad was black. We were in class next to the teacher in a line when my black friend during some 8 year old banter called me and another White lad "White basterdz" my White friend replied calling him "black basterd" it was all very funny till the teacher punished the White friend for racism. His parents had to visit school and he was made an example of. The black friend never got punished despite the teacher hearing his comment first. Were all still friends and laugh about it now. The teacher we learned (my mum was on the board of governers) was after a permanent job and tried to make a name for herself. Irresponsible.

It's a shame he didn't get asked "what's a hindu?" Because the correct answer is, as any schoolboy should know, "lay eggs."

I used to have a Teacher called Mr. Condon.

Did you ask if his first name was Johnny?

Oldgit.. Oh definitely more chilled. Even though this isn't really "talking" to people, it has helped a hell of a lot. Not only to hear the different views, but to see the funny side too. Stw Therapy at it's best. 😀 school is in Hampshire btw.

SIGHS!!

have you thought about cutting your sons tounge out? it's always an option you white basterdz! from what I can tell he just sounds like an inquizitive little kid. that's right A LITTLE KID. chill it out!

Why did your lad get so stressed about it?