MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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I'm guessing it's mostly a case of 'they can do what they like' and I'm not that bothered TBH, but I thought I'd ask anyway, so here goes 🙂 -
I work in a quarry, I'm hourly paid. Basic working week is 55 hours/5.5 days a week, but last year I arranged to give up Saturdays, so I'm doing 50hrs a week.
We all knew that the quarry was right at the end of it's life and I've been asking what was going to happen for several months now, but to no avail. Just rumours. This week the reserves finally ran out, as we knew they would.
Today the area manager comes in and tells my boss (Who's a good chap and in the same boat as me) that our hours are to be dropped to 45 a week and our production bonus scrapped (It usually paid out £60-£100 a week, occasionally a lot more, rarely less, average about £80 recently) and replaced by an attendance bonus of £10 a day. So £50 a week.
A quick tot up says I'll be around £70 a week worse off.
Now, I was expecting something like this, but I've been given precisely ONE DAYS' notice after 6 months asking.....
Thoughts please?
iirc They can change terms of employment, but if you don't agree to the change, they have to give three months notice to force them through. Of course employment legislation has been weekened year on year for the past 30 years so this could have changed now. My experience was about 10 years ago, a company tried to change my terms, I ended up taking them to a tribunual, the judjment compared my boss to a victorian mill owner, I won.
Wish I got a bonus for just turning up!
What does your contract say re hours and the bonus?
90 days notice for any change to your terms and conditions ...
55 hr weeks 😯 😯
Just lost my job and that was only 37 hr week !
This week the reserves finally ran out, as we knew they would.
If there's nowt left to quarry how are you still in a job!!!
I think they probably can do this but I would have thought they would need more notice to replace the production bonus with and attendance bonus. The hours reducetion may also require a longer period of notice in you're contracted at 50hrs per week. Even if you're not it could be seen as customer and practice. The downside is that they may give you your notice but in the interim period you lose your production bonus and don't get the attendance bonus. Looks like you'll get shafted either way, just depends whether you want to make a fuss, if you do it will probably not have anymore of a positive outcome.
Its complex.
Basically they can't change your terms and conditions without notice. Its a contract and they would be breaking it. This includes "perks"
However you can be given a choice of "like it or lump it" - meaning you can refuse risk being sacked and then take the tribunal type route.
You need to decide if its worth fighting it and get real advice if you do want to. You certainly should have got notice.
Have a look on the tuc website - it has a load of good info on it
attendance bonus ? WTF!
Notice period is linked to years of service like redundancy so it's not correct to say 3 months notice is required, if you've been there four full years it's likely to be 4 weeks notice required.
when do you start the new job you looked for when you knew the reserves where running out?
ACAS website also good for info and gives the number for there free helpline.
Notice period is linked to years of service
No it isn't.
Depends on your contract surely? If it says 50hrs per week then thats what it is and thye have to give you notice of any chnges.
But as others said it could be a case of like it or lump it. Try and get in writing what any redundancy would be based on (i.e. your pay minus bonuses based on a 55 hr week) and use this as a negotiating tool (I'll drop my hours to 45 if you promise redundancy will be based on x weeks per years service at y hours per week) of ask for more holiday etc.
iDave - you mean [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wish-me-luck-3 ]this one[/url]?
Any news on that front PP?
Proper notice will be as specified ((or implied) in the employee's contract, or the minimum statutory notice period, whichever is the longer.
From the ACAS handbook, the point I was making was that from several of the other posts above it makes it appear that the notice period is three months, it might be (if it stipulates it in your contract or you've got 12 or more years service in) but it's not guaranteed that's the notice period you're entitled to.
Sod the money - Does the quarry have the potentially to be turned into a mountain biking mecca?? Get STW to club together and buy it out 🙂
Surely the bonus will have conditions attached to it? If the conditions specify that they can take it away, then that's what they can do. Depends on contract imo.
they cannot unilaterally change your T & C they should negotiate with you BUT they can if they give a notice of change which is 90 days forgot the legal term and my employment book is at work iirc. From this they claim something dramatic has changed and they need to do this for economic reasons or go bust ..given what you say they may have a case on that front. You can refuse resign and claim constructive dismissal. Given climate and nothing to quarry you seem to be doing ok IMHO but your choice PP.
I would go for longer notice of intent to change. I assume they have given you all of this in writing? If not take em to cleaners for breachof contract.
PS It may also depend on what is in your contract re changes to hours and wages but both need to be specified in a contract.
It may also depend on what is in your contract re changes to hours and wages but both need to be specified in a contract.
What happens if it's not specified?
The general rule is that contracts can be verbal or written. Is there an exception to that for employment contracts that says they can only be written? (I believe that land contracts are [i]usually [/i]required to be in writing only).
What does your contract say re hours and the bonus?
Off the top of my head I think it's 55hr week and 'production bonus' But that may be bollix....
Anyway, I've just applied for another job. At least I now know roughly how much I'll be earning from next week onwards, so what to aim for salary wise!
konabunny - MemberThe general rule is that contracts can be verbal or written. Is there an exception to that for employment contracts that says they can only be written? (I believe that land contracts are usually required to be in writing only).
"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on."
Samuel Goldwyn
[i]Sod the money - Does the quarry have the potentially to be turned into a mountain biking mecca?? Get STW to club together and buy it out [/i]
Interesting you say that as I got a brochure mistaking delivered to me rather than the land owner yesterday from a company looking to buy 3 large plots of land in the M25 area to make into velo parks.
if you have no written contract then what they are/have been paying you is clearly your wage / T & C . They cannot prove they have the right to change this without your consent so normal employment law would apply.
They will also look cr@p at a tribunal as you can download contracts from the Internet so they will look a bit poor in that respect
Sod the money - Does the quarry have the potentially to be turned into a mountain biking mecca?? Get STW to club together and buy it out
Err, no. I doubt it's any more than 8-10m deep at any point, and it's mostly water now as it's below the water table.....
fair play (apologies) and good luck re' job hunting
iDave - Cheers, I'll need it! 😉
PeterPoddy - Member
I'm guessing it's mostly a case of 'they can do what they like' and I'm not that bothered TBH, but I thought I'd ask anyway, so here goes -I work in a quarry, I'm hourly paid. Basic working week is 55 hours/5.5 days a week, but last year I arranged to give up Saturdays, so I'm doing 50hrs a week.
We all knew that the quarry was right at the end of it's life and I've been asking what was going to happen for several months now, but to no avail. Just rumours. This week the reserves finally ran out, as we knew they would.
Posted 3 hours ago # Report-Post edited
So perhaps the local council could tAke it over and run it as a bike skills park, like Lee quarry the home this weekend to the SINGLETRACK CLASSIC WEEKENDER.
I\d have thought that labeling it a 'bonus' means that they can pretty much do what they want with it.
bonus is total discretionary, they will be contracted only to pay you the hourly rate for an agreed number of hours for sure.
I'm not disputing that.
It's the ONE DAY notice I'm peed off about, after 6 months of asking.
An employer can only change your contractual terms by either you agreeing to the change or by them imposing it.
Even in an imposed change your employer should explain to you why the change is taking place and the reasons for it. If the change is imposed your employer has to terminate your current contract (giving you however much notice is due) and offer you a new contract with the new terms and conditions. It's then up to you whether you accept the new contract. If you don't because you believe the changes are unreasonable you could make a claim to an Employment Tribunal.
Your employer sounds to have cocked up over the process but what they are doing doesn't seem massively unreasonable in circumstances but best advcie would be to get some professional advise, either that or suck it up.
I'm not disputing that.It's the ONE DAY notice I'm peed off about, after 6 months of asking.
I thought you weren't that bothered? And you did ask if they can, and yes they can.
all that'll come down to is poor management. not much you can do about that.
The general rule is that contracts can be verbal or written. Is there an exception to that for employment contracts that says they can only be written? (I believe that land contracts are usually required to be in writing only).
Yes. Sort of. Employment Rights Act reqiores that terms of employment are at elast set out in writing (this means that it need not be in agreement format, and may just be a list of the key terms).
Contracts relating to land must be in writing.