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....Despite the fact I've worked for them for nearly 8 years!
Apparently it's a new-ish legislation (Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006) and to proove I'm not illegal they want 'an excellant quality' photocopy or scan of my passport.
Or a combination of other documnets such as P45, P60, Birth Certificate or National Insurance Card.
Now, I'm not usually one for being bothered about private info being stored, but forgive me, I don't really want copies of my Passport hanging about, and I'm not keen on copying my Birth Certificate either.
What's this about? Can I avoid it? Should I tell them to poke it? Is it all OK?
But you are an illegal immigrant...
...you're from Nottinghamshire.
I second that you even have a weird accent.
You say me bike and jooouuumps...
Mind you compare to rudeboy's your accent is very neutral 😉
had this when I started a new contract last year - despite having worked for them for 5 years, them having a copy of my passport, they still 'needed' a copy of it (despite it being the same passport they alread had a copy of) - I pointed out to the numpty that it was very unlikely that I had had my passport/british citizenship revoked since I was born in the UK, and if I had I would be more likely be 'holidaying' in Cuba or some other hot clime wearing orange overalls - didnt hear back from them and I am still here
Isn't this old news ?)
I had to provide this proof to my employer about 2 years ago
Oh FFS! Stick to the plot you two fools! (Juan & RB)
STW is usually the right place for 'big brother is watching you' type shenannigans!
I must say I'm sorely tempted to tell them to shove it.
I must say I'm sorely tempted to tell them to shove it.
What your accent 😉
We have to show proof and the company register that they have seen it. They don't actually need a copy though?
It's not really about getting your proof but really driven by anti-discrimination - if they decided not to ask you because you're white (and have a funny accent) but asked the guy with darker skin 'because he might be an immigrant' they'd be up for all sorts of trouble. Same in fact if they asked the white guy with the Polish sounding name and accent but not you...
We had to do the same recently FWIW.
I've just had to send off my original passport, birth certificate, utility bills copies of certificates etc etc for my new job.
Never been so nervous sending an envelope.
It's normal practise now, probably need to do it in construction more than some other trades.
So I don't need to worry about them copying my docs then?
(I still don't like the idea)
It's 'cos you've been pretending to be deaf innit! 🙂
My company did this last year and I wasted as much time as I possibly could and presented my documents on the final day. From what I remember though it isn't actually a legal requirement for them to have this information it's just that these are the documents that the immigration service will accept as proof that you are not working illegally. Quite frankly it beggars belief that they need a copy of your NI card when they have the number and print it evey month on your pay slip.
Rob, I hope you didn't just stick a stamp on it! 😯
(I'm assuming Special Delivery at least!)
Do you have a start date yet?
Can't really do much dodgy stuff with a copy of a passport anyway, can you???
From what I remember though it isn't actually a legal requirement for them to have this information
That's what I was thinking.....
No start date yet, have to get references and CRB check completed. Which just cost me £20. 🙁
Can't really do much dodgy stuff with a copy of a passport anyway, can you???
Dunno. That's really what I need to know, I think
I think you should show the documents but refuse to have them copied
isn't actually a legal requirement
Yeah but it's hardly an unusual request. You guys are so awkward!!
I've had my passport copied about 10 times in the last year for all the jobs I've applied for. Not worried. No one looks like my photo anyway, having a head this size is hardly commonplace. 😀
Maybe they want to put you under surveillance as they have noticed a lot of cake going missing recently.
They commit a criminal offence if they employ someone who does not have a right to work in the UK. They can get off the hook (even if you were in fact an illegal) if they can demonstrate that they have seen evidence of your right to work, and checked it at appropriate intervals.
been thre done that.
It's bollox mind
They can get off the hook (even if you were in fact an illegal) if they can demonstrate that they have seen evidence of your right to work
but contriwise, if you demonstrate that you ARE a citizen then no prosecution for this could take place.
and checked it at appropriate intervals.
in case you accidentally become un-British ?
Maybe they want to put you under surveillance as they have noticed a lot of cake going missing recently.
LOL!
If the passport is found to be false at a later date the person may be up diarrehea drive without a saddle but the employer can defend themselves saying that they did the checks they had to and as far as they knew the passport was genuine (which the scan can prove). If there is no copy it's just heresay.
Why the problem SFB?
robdob - Member
Can't really do much dodgy stuff with a copy of a passport anyway, can you???
No wonder ID fraud is so easy,
Or maybe excessive electricity, flour and icing sugar consumption in your division. They suspect you are running an illegal cake smuggling business using your current job as a "front".
Might explain why you were pushing so much cake around at the weekend PP? Was it a shipment you had to "dispose of" as you knew they were onto you?
It's the only explanation for having 3 family sized cakes in your car for just a weekend.
Kaya, what do you mean?
Ok, I'll give you a copy of my passport. Do your worst! Won't get you anywhere.
I'm just opening a community bank account, and had to take my passport and someone else's into Barclays. The other one is a new one and has all the UV light visible markings. Mine is 7 years old and doesn't. It was held under the UV light and as there weren't as many pretty patterns as the other one, she asked me if I had any more ID! There are some UV light visible markings on mine.
A bit OT I know, but I was stunned. I don't even look like a passport forger! I just had the authenticity of my passport doubted 🙁 What do I have left?
SFB - I like your simple logic.
He does like his cake, Poddy, it has to be said...
I think you confuse simple logic with just being simple. 😉
It's not really about getting your proof but really driven by anti-discrimination - if they decided not to ask you because you're white (and have a funny accent) but asked the guy with darker skin 'because he might be an immigrant' they'd be up for all sorts of trouble. Same in fact if they asked the white guy with the Polish sounding name and accent but not you...
Clubbers hit the nail bang on the head, the look I get from British people when I ask for proof of their right to work in the UK is somewhat puzzeled at times, I've even had people walk out in a hissy fit.
Annabanana, what [i]does[/i] a passport forger look like?
(waits for someone to post pic as he's on his phone) 😉
They commit a criminal offence if they employ someone who does not have a right to work in the UK. They can get off the hook (even if you were in fact an illegal) if they can demonstrate that they have seen evidence of your right to work, and checked it at appropriate intervals.
Correct and an on the spot fine of £5000 per illegal worker is handed out to the employer.
Having your passport / birth certificate photocopied is no big problem surely?
sorry to jump in here . rudeboy could you bob me an email please. many thanks all 😉
Robdob not like me! OK was being tongue in cheek cos I know the real answer is anyone, but you know what I mean. If indeed anyone ever knows what I mean...
He does like his cake, Poddy, it has to be said...
It's starting again, isn't it? Roll up, Roll up! Have a go at Poddy half-hour! Look what you could have won!
😉
Having your passport / birth certificate photocopied is no big problem surely?
Surely it would be up to the authorities to prove that as an employee of a particular company that I [i]didn't[/i] have the right to work in the UK.
Listen to me with my "presumption of innocense" what am I loke...
Maybe you [b]are[/b] a passport forger, who is now trying to cover their tracks with a simple STW subterfuge.
I'm calling the rozzers!!!
Show the passport, but no copies. Cite data protection and is their database registered with the commissioner. I will show my passport/driving licence and other docs but there is no requirement to photocopy them the organisation needs to note they have seen them and maybe a note of the reference number.
Hands up all those who recycle their credit card statements without shredding them. The price of your liberty is eternal vigilance by you not the state or any other commercial organisation.
" After months of careful planning, Miss Banana finally chose an eclectic forum full of random mountain bikers to out herself as an expert counterfeiter, and then deny it and then change her mind and finally question her own sanity"
I think you might be right robdob.
Firestarter- email sent, ya Bulb-End! 🙂
BTW, Poddy can probbly kick most people on here's arses on a bike. Even though he is partial to a spot of cake occasionally.
Poddy can probbly kick most people on here's arses on a bike.
Only off vertical drops.
Show the passport, but no copies. Cite data protection and is their database registered with the commissioner. I will show my passport/driving licence and other docs but there is no requirement to photocopy them the
And if further down the line your employee is found to be illegal and their passport and visa have mysteriously disappeared, all you've got for defence as an employer is your own hand written notes.
Get outa here you'd be ****ed and £5000 lighter.
BTW, Home office guide lines stipulate that as an employer you should take a photocopy or scan the passport / documents.
Page 5 step 3 of the Home Office 2004 Guidance For UK Employers on the Law on Preventing Illegal Working, if you care to look.
Kingtut, that's the best bit of info so far, thanks
🙂
You're welcome.
Well PP is quite welcoming...
PP, if you're worried about your employer having a photocopy of your passport, look at this this way - they already have your address, your NI number, your bank details, and probably a load of other info that could be misused if it got into the wrong hands. I don't think a photocopy of a passport would be much use to a forger, any more than a photocopy of a bank note.
Juan do you speak like you type? It bends (read hurts) my mind 😕
out of interest, are they asking 'every' employee to prove their citizenship?
I must admit, PP did impress me at the weekend. I could still have him on the downhills I think. He's got skills, and fitness, but I have a brain dead logic that says "what's the worst that could happen?".
They're guidelines not the law, a reference number will be more than adequate. Passport and immigration will have records to back that up, if they can't match a number to a [s]citizen[/s] subject then what chance have the rest of us got?
They're guidelines not the law, a reference number will be more than adequate. Passport and immigration will have records to back that up
Yes it guidelines against getting fined.
So you write down a fake number from a fake passport or visa that will probably 'disappear' at a later date so it can't be produced and you think that is going to be a good defence against prosecution?
Don't be daft.
As far as I'm concerned any prospective candidates that refuse to have their passport or birth certificate copied, they are shown the door simple as.
Home office guide lines stipulate that as an employer you should take a photocopy or scan the passport / documents.
that's as maybe, but if you want to employ me you'll have to think of something else 🙂
that's as maybe, but if you want to employ me you'll have to think of something else
Yes, like employing someone else.
out of interest, are they asking 'every' employee to prove their citizenship?
As far as I know, yes.... I reckon for some people providing the correct documents could be very hard: In the building trade there are some, err how shall we say, "thick" (?) people around who won't have passports and simply throw all official stuff straight in the bin.
I must admit, PP did impress me at the weekend. I could still have him on the downhills I think. He's got skills, and fitness, but I have a brain dead logic that says "what's the worst that could happen?".
You forget one detail - I'm under a "Don't break yourself because you're getting married next week" curfew, which results in a 10-15% reduction in downhilling speeds, plus we both kept getting stuck in the traffic a bit down off Helvellyn, didn't we?
😉
what happens if you don't [b]HAVE [/b]a passport?
Yes, like employing someone else.
fine by me 🙂
what happens if you don't HAVE a passport?
A full birth certificate is fine, if you don't have one they can be obtained very easily from the registry office in the area you were born in.
What if, like Simon, the town you were born in dosn't want to be held responsible for you, and claims they have no record of your birth in the town?
and claims they have no record of your birth in the town?
I'll just have to become part of the black economy :o)
my gran couldn't get a birth certificate.
all her records were destoryed in either the first or second world wars (some in each).
she never went abroad as she was worried the authorities would declare her an illegal immigrant (despite the fact she coudl remember zepplins bombing her street in London).
Sounds like she won't be getting a job in a quarry any time soon wwaswas.
Sounds like she won't be getting a job in a quarry any time soon wwaswas.
Au contraire! She'd be cheaper than PP, and could just smile sweetly and point her ear trumpet at the drivers :o)
LOL at Miss Banana. I must admit that I would be more than a little astonished to be asked to provide info like that, for a company I've worked for for four years.
Wait till he gets married-the vicar and his wife to be will check his passport! 😆
A guy in our team at work was sacked for being an illegal imigrant. He had lived in the UK for 30 years. He stayed on after leaving the US air force.
Interestingly enough he hasn't been deported.
Interestingly enough he hasn't been deported.
so if he's not allowed to work has he become a burglar ?
Thats Crazy?!
professional gambler I think!
There's been talk of an amnesty for long term illegal immigrants hasn't there?
[i]Interestingly enough he hasn't been deported. [/i]
Can't imagine a US citizen who's been here for 30 years and, presumably, without a criminal record is going to be on top of the priority list for removals. Guessing it could also be assumed he has established a family and private life in that time as well.
No family here, he said he was staying here to avoid his family in the states ?
ha ha Mr KINGTUT sounds like you really ARE an HR person - you have the right tone....I noticed the change over the years as it changed from 'Personnel' to 'Human Resources'...
Actually this was recently brought in where I work and enough of us complained about having our papers copied and stored with some dodgy 3rd party solicitors that it transpired that it just required the local Party Commissar - sorry HR officer - to check out papers were 'in order' and for us to sign a letter to explain why we wouldn't comply.
Strictly speaking, presenting a photocopy does NOT prove the documents have been adequately examined. You could just take the copy and file it without further involvement. It should be sufficient to have a signature saying, "I attest that I have examined the document and believe it to be genuine"
ha ha Mr KINGTUT sounds like you really ARE an HR person - you have the right tone....I noticed the change over the years as it changed from 'Personnel' to 'Human Resources'...
I'm in recruitment, I own my own agency and I employ a lot of foreign labour.
Strictly speaking, presenting a photocopy does NOT prove the documents have been adequately examined. You could just take the copy and file it without further involvement. It should be sufficient to have a signature saying, "I attest that I have examined the document and believe it to be genuine"
It's all about defence, taking photocopies of the documents is enough to provide a defence as far as the Home office/ Department of Immigration are concerned, take a photocopy or face a £5000 fine? It's a no brainer.