hora - MemberI didn't see British Muslims marching in support of the UK in the aftermath of 7/7. Apart from the Muslim Council you don't see Muslims in support of the British flag, or anything associated. Very sad and very true.
Yeah, because there were so many other religions marching in support of the UK, and all those other religions are always out "in support of the British flag", whatever that even means.
How about those zoroastians eh?
I didn't see British Muslims marching in support of the UK in the aftermath of 7/7
British Muslim here, and totally supported the UK stance after 7/7.
See some of my previous postsWhere is the 'not in our name/they don't speak for us' campaign?
I am proud to be british and proud to be a muslim!Sad really. As I know some good people but theres no desire(?) .. pride? as you would get from say Sikh's.
Shocking post hora!
Yeah, because there were so many other religions marching in support of the UK, and all those other religions are always out "in support of the British flag", whatever that even means.
Which of these have consistently been in the news for the wrong reasons?
Northwind - Member"hora - Member
I didn't see British Muslims marching in support of the UK in the aftermath of 7/7. Apart from the Muslim Council you don't see Muslims in support of the British flag, or anything associated. Very sad and very true."
Yeah, because there were so many other religions marching in support of the UK, and all those other religions are always out "in support of the British flag", whatever that even means.
But it is 'very true' FACT
Heres a nice and sad story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1555507/Sikh-regiment-dumped-over-racism-fears.html
You have dug out a 7 year old article to prove what?
Something a little more recent
Quote 'To mark this, the MoD announced that, since 2007, the number of Muslims serving in the British Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force has risen by more than 40 per cent'
You can prove anything with facts.
I really agree with this summary. It only takes a vocal, organised minority to cause no end of bother and this current lot of nutters are 20 million strong at a minimum and in fact it's likely to be loads more. This is not 50 looneys like the Westboro Baptist Church it's millions of radicalised people who are directly opposed to how we live here in the west and would violently kybosh that if they could.
Naive to think otherwise, either this radical minority is stopped or things will only get worse.
Up 40% to 650.
Disagree, think the idea behind religions was to try to stop people f***ing each other over all the time.Didn't quite work did it? Then again, maybe things would have been worse without religions.
We cannot say whether history would have been far more bloody without religion. Perhaps religion has kept the degree of disharmony in check.
I'm not sure that willingness to join the army and then die to preserve the lifestyle of rich white middle aged men should be how we measure how patriotic a religious community are?
Maybe Muslim youths are just a bit brighter than your average British squaddie?
Or they just see a future for themselves outside the forces in wider society that fulfills their economic and social aspirations?
Up 40% to 650.
Indeed, I am always suspicious of "fastest growing" and percentage change stats, often a cover for the difference between two small numbers.
I didn't see British Muslims marching in support of the UK in the aftermath of 7/7.
I didn't see you doing it either.
Im not a Muslim so how is your counter comment relevent?
I'm not sure that willingness to join the army and then die to preserve the lifestyle of rich white middle aged men should be how we measure how patriotic a religious community are?
That is a disgusting comment and shows a lack of situational awareness that is truly beyond belief.
Does anyone know how many dogs are in the armed forces? Do they outnumber the muslamics?
I didn't see British Muslims marching in support of the UK in the aftermath of 7/7. Apart from the Muslim Council you don't see Muslims in support of the British flag, or anything associated. Very sad and very true.Where is the 'not in our name/they don't speak for us' campaign?
Not this again we do this everytime.
They do and they have it is just the press and idiots would rather ignore it and lie in bed scared that they want to convert us all to islam and are hell bent on taking over the world. you have google use it please.......10 seconds later
Muslim leaders have condemned the terror attacks on London and called for full co-operation with police. Muslim Council of Britain spokesman Inayat Bunglawala called on worshippers to pray for victims at Friday prayers.
It is just not true and it is at odds with the facts
Also sad that as I'm 'critising' above in some countries it'd mean jail/death and here at home automatically a 'racist'.
Pretty sure the entire internet is forming the same opinion of you; you are not the sharpest tool on the internet.
If I did the same and criticise an aspect of Christian faith/a section of the Christian community I'd be classed as 'debating' or having a 'critical view' on a subject to do with Christians.
Are you claiming christians are too stupid to realise the limits of your analysis that they would label it a debate ?
You are aware how recently we repealed blasphemy arent you? 2008 as I realise you and [researching] facts have limited interaction.
Perhaps religion has kept the degree of disharmony in check.
The evidence for that is somewhat scant. A few less Holy wars, a few less killing of each other over internal schisms as well would help your case. I agree it would not have ended it but it is hard to argue it has helped. You may as well try and argue Imperialism helped as both are expansionist and "supreme" in nature.
Someone called a dog "JOCK" !?! How very dare they?
[i]how many dogs are in the armed forces?[/i]
200ish excluding mascots...
[url= http://www.army.mod.uk/medical-services/veterinary/30499.aspx ]http://www.army.mod.uk/medical-services/veterinary/30499.aspx[/url]
I'm not sure that willingness to join the army and then die to preserve the lifestyle of rich white middle aged men should be how we measure how patriotic a religious community are?
On a very basic level they are the men and women with sharp pointy knives protecting our way of life and our freedom.
When you join up, you join to serve. You don't get to pick and chose your conflicts.
Messy though it was/is- Should we have just let the Loyalists on their own?
Should we have let Argentina take the Falklands? What would have happened then on the world stage?
Iraq was a mistake but what about Kuwait back in the early 90's?
What about Bosnia/Serbia/Croat Muslims? Should we have let the Bosnia/Muslims suffer?
If we hadn't have flown air missions in Libya- would Gaddaffi have inflicted a bloody revenge on his people?
and historically. Would we all be speak German now with no Jewish, Slav's, any middle east faith (he would have gone after them next) people left in the world?
Im not a Muslim so how is your counter comment relevent?
Because I expected you to.
As you expected the Muslims to.
That's what's important isn't it?
Should we have let Argentina take the Falklands? What would have happened then on the world stage?
Very little. I doubt most people knew where it was until we got in a scrap over the islands. The islanders would have had different lives but short of that, maybe you can tell us what would have happened.
Muslim leaders have condemned the terror attacks on London and called for full co-operation with police. Muslim Council of Britain spokesman Inayat Bunglawala called on worshippers to pray for victims at Friday prayers.
See higher up - I mentioned the Muslim Council did I not?
How can dogs be unclean? Mine was always licking it's balls clean!
Landing carpets, they're unclean.richwales - Member
How can dogs be unclean? Mine was always licking it's balls clean!
Well our is after our dogs wiped his arse on it at any rate.
Muslims .... Barking mad the lot of them .
🙂
[i]Barking mad the lot of them . [/i]
They love the place.
[img] 
[/img]
there was no march Hora what do you want individual comments from individual Muslims saying it was bad? What do you need to realise that all but a tiny tiny percentage of muslims [ say the same number of catholics who supported the IRA or prods who supported the UDF] were not outraged.
what about vigils for peace do they count...did you go to one?
They were as outraged as everyone else. As you did not march it is a bit odd you use this as the measure of their opposition.
Should we have let Argentina take the Falklands? What would have happened then on the world stage?
Thatcher would have lost an election would have been the biggest world change from that event i would imagine
YOU? what world changing event are you predicting then?
Communists invaded germany?
If we hadn't have flown air missions in Libya- would Gaddaffi have inflicted a bloody revenge on his people?
I see you have been keeping up with recent world events then Hora FACEPALM
On the other hand.... As a Christian, I just like to say how outraged I am that.
Some of the men in that opening ceremony seemed to be wearing skirts !!
People who describe our armed forces as representing or fighting on behalf of the white middle aged men are hypocrites.
Western Europe is richer than the remainder of the world by a huge margin. Even the worst off of us in a minimum wage job is still leagues ahead, in almost every way that counts, of someone living in rural Afghanistan for example.
You may perceive yourself as in someway not part of this society but you enjoy all the benefits,you live here, you'll consume, you'll be involved, you are in all practical ways the white middle aged man you so deride.
If our troops serve big business or the political classes (which I do not believe they do, although they may have done in part for example protecting oil supplies) it's your demands and needs they are ultimately fulfilling, your need to be on the web, using energy produced in a power station, to drive a car etc etc. You can be a lilly white, tree hugging, swamp lover but your still one of us and they fight and die so indirectly you can make a crappy comment about how stupid they are to do it on a mountain bike forum.
As for it's only a few radicals about 5.5 billion religious people on this planet, even at 5% radicals that's a buttload of nutters that want their version of the truth imposed on everyone else. The best thing moderate muslims could do is turn atheist in my opinion.
Some of the men in that opening ceremony seemed to be wearing skirts !!
Quite unbelievable! They've obviously not read Exodus 2:45
[i]Lo, unto Adam God said "You shall always wear trousers", and you shall not worship false trousers[/i]
He may not have put it well, but the OP has a point about the story he posted.
""Malaysia and all Islamic countries deserve and apology from the organiser.
"This is just so disrespectful to Malaysia and Muslims – especially as it happened during Ramadan. Muslims are not allowed to touch dogs, so the organiser should have been more aware and sensitive on this issue"
Piss off you idiot comes to mind.
Were the musicians offended by John Barrowman?
[i]People who describe our armed forces as representing or fighting on behalf of the white middle aged men are hypocrites. [/i]
I am a white middle aged western european man.
I think that British soldiers are doing more to protect my way of life than they are anyone elses on this planet and particularly in the areas they fight and die in.
What bothers me is that the actions they take are 'sold' to them as 'liberation' and 'protecting freedom'. As far as I can see recent wars have liberated very few and only protected my freedom of access to oil.
It may not be palatable but as you say, it's the truth.
I don't resent our armed forces and I'm grateful for what they do but any politician who dresses up as anything other than protecting their own voters (see Thatcher/Falklands comments above) is usually deluded and/or lying.
The only times in recent years that I can see imposed force achieving a lasting peace is in the Balkans and that was after a lamentable lack of action on the part of their immediate neighbours and co-operation in genocide by some Nato forces.
My comments were in specific response to a comment about Muslims in the armed forces - maybe, as a group, British Muslims are less keen to go and fight on foreign soil, or they see other life opportunities available to them, or fear institutionalised racism/descrimination or any number of other reasons. I don;t think it makes them less British as a result.
[i]If[/i] they were so offended by a tiny little dog why did they not refuse to take part in the opening ceremony on religious grounds until a suitable replacement was found i.e. a cute little kitten, snake, gerbil or whatever doesn't offend them.
Did Mohammed have a pet they could have used and put a tartan scarf on just so they could get with the spirit of the event.
Piss off you idiot comes to mind.
You are clarkson and you should slope off
Its rather ironic/tragic the levels of two finger and ignorance folk want to show to other cultures.
A little bit of tolerance and some gentle understanding is no bad thing.
better jokes would help as well
Were the musicians offended by John Barrowman?
Why weren't the muslims offended when John Barrowman kissed the guy during the opening ceremony. Is this not seen as sinful by their teachings.
@ Hora...so you think that there wasnt a massive show of british muslims publicly condemning/demonstrating at the horror of 7/7, and that this meant they didnt care?
i believe the muslim council spoke for the majority of the british muslim community when they openly condemned 7/7...who else did you need from the muslim community to do this?
in the aftermath of 7/7 the muslim condemnation of the atrocity went largely unreported as the greater emphasis was placed on the investigation of the bombings and the on the victims who perished and quite rightly so
i remember in the aftermath of 7/7 i was on a uni course through work and had to regulalry catch a bus into manchester...the number of passengers who gave me dirty looks or looked at me with open suspicion was shocking because i was a british asian muslim and had a rucksack...it made me feel very insecure about how i was perceived by them but i could understand where they were coming from
but i ahd no axe to grind with them but i did with the those stupid asshats who killed all those innocent people on that fateful day simply because they had been brainwashed with a warped interpretation of islam.
they did not do it in the name of islam.
but but anyway, back to the issue of the dog....as a muslim i have no problem with dogs...the problem is down to interpretation...there is nothing in the Quran that says you are strictly forbidden from keeping or coming into contact with a dog...but its saliva is seen as unclean therefore you should avoid contact with this
the Quran says that you should not keep a dog unless it is kept for guarding livestock, hunting or farming (i.e. herding) duties
in a more modern context i think there an exception can be made for dogs that assist those who are not able bodied i.e. guide dogs
you can keep a dog but in doing so your good deeds are reduced on a daily basis for the lifetime of the dog ownership and if you choose to keep one it must not be allowed to share the same space as humans
i think the issue here is that there are individuals on both sides who are over sensationalising the issue and trying to create a mountain out of a molehill
Nobody actually watches the opening ceremony, you fool!
hora - MemberWhich of these have consistently been in the news for the wrong reasons?
What, all 1.57 billion of them? Way to tar a quarter of the world's population with the same brush.
In related news, all cyclists jump red lights. It was in the papers. But where are the marches of cyclists supporting the british flag?
I don't really get how you're not happy having the council speak for UK muslims, apparently that doesn't count. But one excitable shouty chap who's got the basic facts completely wrong, he's a man to listen to, because he was in the papers today.
The problem is he who shouts the most gets noticed the most. Lots of Muslims have dogs around where I work . Some drink some even deal drugs.
Just like any other group you get the folk with a twisted view of faith they tend to be nut jobs and they shout the most.
When in Rome.
If I go abroad I respect the locals and there customs as long as it's not barbaric (bull fighting springs to mind).
I'm getting fed up with how religious books are being interpreted 'I think what God means in chapter 5' ect ect repeat until its twisted.
My religion was replaced by faith a long time ago. It's all a bit Meh and the sooner the rest of world stops acting in God's name the better. He's been very quiet for the last few thousand years maybe he retired by the coast
[quote=gonzy ]
i believe the muslim council spoke for the majority of the british muslim community when they openly condemned 7/7...who else did you need from the muslim community to do this?
Hora's expectation...
Surely the title of this thread should be "Telegraph readers offended by puffball story".
"Iraq was a mistake but what about Kuwait back in the early 90's?"
Yeah, that was such a moment to shine: having spent most of the 1980s selling arms to Iraq, Iran, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, the UK spent a vast amount of money and sent people to die to "liberate" Kuwait. In other words, in a battle between an autocratic Muslim extremist despot in their battle and a degenerate socialist dictatorship for control of unearned oil wealth, the UK chose the former, and "liberation" meant reinstating Shariah law and consolidating the subjugation of women.
