He’s been bailed.
it’s hard to have any real strong opinion without more info.
Nah, we're at four pages of expert opinion already!
Another anecdote, a dad at our kids' school (a doctor and amateur sportsman) heard a couple of junkie burglars breaking into his home, where he lived with his wife and two kids.
He went downstairs, very scared obvs, and gave them a sound thrashing with a hockey stick that he kept beside the bed.
He was treated sympathetically by the police and charges were not brought against him.
It didn't make the Daily Mail for some reason.
cha****ng
it’s hard to have any real strong opinion without more info.
Nah, we’re at four pages of expert opinion already!
There are two conversations running concurrently by the looks of it - people debating the case (pointless) and people debating the "what would you do" / "what should you be allowed to do" hypotheticals.
Is this for all laws, i.e. if someone chooses to speed in their car I can shoot at them as it is their own fault?
If it doesn’t cover speeding then which laws that people ignore can we get all vigilante about, is it just burglary in particular?
Would there be a list somewhere?
I'm talking specifically about burglary here as there is absolutely zero grey area. There's intent, there's no ambiguity (you don't burgle a house by accident) and there's a very defined victim. So yeah in this instance, absolutely at point of illegal entry, all protection of law for the burglar should cease.
I see some of the usual internet tough guys are positively tumescent from fantasising about carrying out their own vigilante murder. Hilarious.
I hadn’t realised that you were a witness.
I am truly humbled now...
not.
I’m talking specifically about burglary here as there is absolutely zero grey area. There’s intent, there’s no ambiguity (you don’t burgle a house by accident) and there’s a very defined victim. So yeah in this instance, absolutely at point of illegal entry, all protection of law for the burglar should cease.
I don't think it's quite that clear cut. Now any sensible burglar you'd think would run as soon as they'd been discovered by the homeowner. If they don't, and if they are carrying a weapon (although that's also a bit grey as whatever tools they've used to break in will most likely be use-able as a weapon too), then I think most means (or weapons) a homeowner then uses are probably justified - at least until the point that the burglar flees. So shoot or stab an armed burglar in the front then you're probably going to be ok legally, but shoot or stab them in the back and you've probably got problems.
The guy called in the break in by 2 men. He described what had happened and when the police attended they found the dead guy in the street along from the break in on the way there, with a witness saying they saw another man trying to get him into a vehicle before leaving him behind. The old guy didn’t know the man was dead when he called the police.
All this was on the BBC website yesterday.
“I’ve never met an intelligent burglar”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-43627504
Released on bail pending further investigation. Opinion pendulum swings away from ‘more to it than meets the eye’ and towards ‘plucky and lucky have a go hero’...
epicsteve
I don’t think it’s quite that clear cut. Now any sensible burglar you’d think would run as soon as they’d been discovered by the homeowner.
Even that's an assumption that mightn't play out - what if the burglar's preferred or only escape route is blocked by you? Are you going to have a conversation? What if there's another burglar elsewhere in the house who's got the valuables? He might not want to abandon his partner.
So shoot or stab an armed burglar in the front then you’re probably going to be ok legally, but shoot or stab them in the back and you’ve probably got problems.
What about the side or the flank? What if they knock you to the ground and are lying on top of you? Can you stab them in the back then?
There's probably no way to know how these things play out.
“I’ve never met an intelligent burglar”
Maybe the smart ones don't get caught?
Being the fence does seem like the better option though, if you had to choose.
Oh do get a grip!
What a strange riposte form the man who advocates murder by beating, I guess you had nothing rational as a response so had to go with childish.
Two wrongs dont make a right- we teach our kids this FFS- and entering my house is not something that should be punishable by death by extreme beating. That makes you no better than them in the eyes of the law. You are closer to them than to law abiding decent folk
Unfortunately for you all of this is true
The BBC have the guy's photo up on the story now - looks like a hero to me, I can barely stomach one pint of guiness of an evening nevermind two simultaneously...
It didn’t make the Daily Mail for some reason.
Was the reason that no one died?
Could that be the reason?
Possibly?
Was the reason that no one died?
One of the burglars was left with a number of broken bones.
My point was that the common sense outcome doesn't fit with the "Broken Britain" hell-in-a-handcart narrative that our right-wing press and internet bellends like to write about.
It didn’t make the Daily Mail for some reason.
No immigrants involved?
The object of the robbery wasn't a rare and collectible Franklin Mint plate featuring Princess Diana?
In my small minded and limited opinion, you lose your rights as soon as you break the law. If i was in this guys shoes i would have did the same thing. The human race needs a bit of thinning , let's start with the bottom feeders who have nothing to offer, unfortunately this one didn't die. My tax money will now go to rehabilitate him and send him off on his merry way to be in and out of the system until he's taken out by another of the same like,or old age.
Maybe i should have saved this post for the dailyrag.
The object of the robbery wasn’t a rare and collectible Franklin Mint plate featuring Princess Diana?
He said "Mail", not "Express"
The BBC have the guy’s photo up on the story now – looks like a hero to me
Overpowered/scared off 2 burglars.... looks exactly like that kind of ninja.
He said “Mail”, not “Express”
The ever-impartial Express is running with "Pensioner arrested for 'murder' of burglar" today. They must be so happy to finally have a new headline after all these years.
Burgler looks like he got an unplanned comeuppance and I fear that the old boy will suffer a stroke or heart attack through stress. Nobody wins.
Except for everyone else in the neighbourhood, which has suffered from a spate of burglaries. What are the odds that this crime wave will stop? Old chap did good, and if it comes to crowd funding his legal defense I will be chipping in.
If i was in this guys shoes i would have did the same thing.
Well with that sentence alone you have condemned yourself as the lowest of the bottom feeders 🙂
The ever-impartial Express is running with “Pensioner arrested for ‘murder’ of burglar” today. They must be so happy to finally have a new headline after all these years.
On a tangent, the Express has been sold to Mirror Group, so expect fewer Princess Di & weather scare story splashes in future. Interested to see if it stays so rabidly pro-Brexit.
Well with that sentence alone you have condemned yourself as the lowest of the bottom feeders
So what do you do, just stand there and watch them do anything and everything to you and your family?Maybe help them carry out the telly? What if kids are in the house? As if the armchair pacifists on here wouldn't try to do anything if people came barging into their homes shouting threats.
Well with that sentence alone you have condemned yourself as the lowest of the bottom feeders 🙂
does your wife/partner know that you would leave them alone to the mercy of a possibly armed intruder ?
I am truly humbled now…
not.
I hadn't imagined that a lack of ego was one of your problems.
If you had a wife upstairs with a possible intruder upstairs and you were also 38 and fit and could disable the intruder in front of you by other means, then ok, but if you are 78 the possibilities to disable the intruder in front of you so you could get to your wife are reduced.
And even if you were 38 it might not also be worth taking the risk that a less aggressive approach would work, why do the burglar any favours when your wife is possibly at risk ?
but if you are 78 the possibilities to disable the intruder in front of you so you could get to your wife are reduced.
Although not impossible, as this case clearly shows!
I'm obviously a terrible person as I am of the opinion that you break in to someones house, all bets are off and your human rights go out the window.
I can manage to keep myself from breaking in to peoples houses so surely other folk should be able to........and from what I understand, most of the time they won't just leave apologising for the inconvenience if you disturb them doing their job
I’m obviously a terrible person as I am of the opinion that you break in to someones house, all bets are off and your human rights go out the window.
I'm of the opinion that any motorist exceeding the speed limit should be executed by firing squad.
Vincent was being hunted by police after a distraction burglary in which a man in his 70s was targeted in Farningham, Kent in November last year.
Not his first time, gladly it was his last. good riddance to a stain on the human dna.
I'm sure neither the armchair Charles Bronsons or the armchair Ghandis would react exactly as they think.
I know I wouldn't be pondering legal principles or human rights if someone broke into my house. I don't know for sure what I would do TBH, but I tend to lose my rag dramatically when I get close passed on the bike, so I suspect adrenaline would take over and I'd be quite aggressive - for better or worse.
There are obviously many on here who thought Judge Dredd was a documentary.
Ive been burgled by two blokes with hammers, luckly we were out but 18 months on I still freak out regularly at night when I hear sounds outside the house
the law should be changed so their rights are suspended when they are knowingly committing a crime. you shouldn' have to worry that you will end up in jail trying to protect your own family and property
So what do you do, just stand there and watch them do anything and everything to you and your family?Maybe help them carry out the telly? What if kids are in the house? As if the armchair pacifists on here wouldn’t try to do anything if people came barging into their homes shouting threats.
You miss my point, I was commenting on your murder of the English language which as we all know is seen as a capital crime by many on here. My thoughts on this case as it stands is that I don't have enough knowledge of it currently to make a judgement.
does your wife/partner know that you would leave them alone to the mercy of a possibly armed intruder ?
Yes they do but they are greatly comforted by the knowledge that the inscription on their gravestone will be grammatically correct. 🙂
If you had a wife upstairs
One of the great opening lines.
Based on the story as reported, the arrest seems inappropriate to me. I see no reason to suspect an offence has been committed. On the other hand I haven't seen the state of the corpse, if it has a hundred stab wounds and the skull's been repeatedly stamped on then I might change my mind.
The guy has been bailed which does make it seem more likely that the police are just following due process and, if the descriptions of the incident are true, we'll eventually see any charges dropped.
Based on the story as reported, the arrest seems inappropriate to me. I see no reason to suspect an offence has been committed.
I answered this on the previous page. Someone has been killed so they have to investigate it, and in order to question the suspect they have to arrest him. There's no "appropriate" about it, it's due process.
Based on the story as reported, the arrest seems inappropriate to me
The problem though is it is his story. The police cant just take his word for it hence the arrest whilst they investigate it.
If true then chances of it going to court are pretty much zero.
People acting in self defence are protected under the law. It would only be if it doesnt look like self defence or is excessive that it becomes a problem.
I’m not sure what I’d do under the circumstances, hopefully it will never happen. In my warped little mind I’d like to think I’d choke the bugger out. Upon awaking he would find himself wearing one of those collars from Total Recall or Wedlock. If he attempted any aggressive action or thought or stopped performing household chores for longer than 3.6 minutes.......
BOOM! Goodbye head!
you shouldn’ have to worry that you will end up in jail trying to protect your own family and property
You don't have to worry, because you won't.
in order to question the suspect they have to arrest him
Do they though? What happened to interviewing under caution? How about "helping the police with their enquiries"? Though tbh the latter covers a multitude of possible scenarios from a friendly chat to repeatedly falling down the stairs until you remember you're guilty of being Irish in a public place.
Do they though? What happened to interviewing under caution? How about “helping the police with their enquiries”?
Both of those scenarios involve Voluntary Attendance at the police station to be interviewed, and the “suspect” could just get up and leave any time they wanted to.
Personally, I think if someone has just ended another persons life, under any circumstances, attendance at the interview should be mandatory rather than voluntary.
And it seems like police standard procedure agrees.