Oh, are we back into your really now quite weird obsession with my local pub? You know it’s not normal, right?
Anyway… worth a read. I know it’s the Guardian and everything, but needs must…
Ministers ‘asleep on watch’ over safety of Afghans, says ex-British army chief
“On the particular issue of those who we knew were in danger, people who had worked for us, interpreters, former locally engaged civilians, this issue has been in the media,” he told Times Radio.
“This issue has been on politicians’ desks for two to three years and, certainly, it’s been there during the course of this year … Back in July, 45 senior officers wrote to the government … saying there are people we are concerned about and if we don’t do the right thing, their blood will be on our hands. It is unfathomable why it would appear that the government was asleep on watch.”
So the military knew it was coming. Maybe they didn’t tell the politicians because they didn’t want them worrying while they were on their hollybobs?
Or the politicians are lying?
Whichever could it be?
Oh it's in the Guardian so it must be true.
That article has today's date. You claim that everyone knew months ago that Kabul would fall to the Taliban even before the Americans had left.
Provide me with your sauce please.
And explain why Pen Farthing didn't evacuate his cats and dogs months ago.
Have a nice day Ernie.
And btw binners, since you brought it up, on the issue of the treatment of Afghans by coalition governments it is indeed appalling. The whole 20 years of military intervention in Afghanistan has been appalling.
From the military attacks on Afghan wedding parties to the British army loading up 200 cats and dogs to evacuate from Kabul whilst leaving vulnerable Afghans behind.
Some estimate that as many as 240,000 Afghans perished in a war which ultimately achieved very little if anything at all, far more than the Taliban ever killed.
How big Boris Johnson's part was in that tragic story is debatable, but whatever the total bloodshed due to incompetence of Western forces as they abandoned Afghanistan it will appear insignificant compared to the total bloodshed caused by this military adventure.
Edit : Especially you binners. I know you'll value it because it's in the Guardian and your Nigerian uncle would approve.
“From the military attacks on Afghan wedding parties to the British army loading up 200 cats and dogs to evacuate from Kabul whilst leaving vulnerable Afghans behind.”
You are proving the point the OP was making perfectly there fella.
The animals would have been loaded onto the plane (paid for by donations from people like me) by Pen and his Afghan staff, but despite them having the correct clearances and paperwork the staff weren’t allowed through to the flight. The plane had room for other people (even more of them since his Afghan staff were turned away), animals were placed in the hold.
Who’s cars were returned to the uk? Lookers Kabul?
The whole farrago was a balls up from too-late start to fumbled finish. Blaming one man for trying his best to save his friends, family, staff and animals is just deflecting from the correct questions to ask, namely why wasn’t this started earlier, in an orderly and organised fashion?
You are proving the point the OP was making perfectly there fella.
You say that as if you think I am trying to disprove the point made by the OP.
I haven't expressed an opinion on the matter. I have challenged binners claim that "everyone" knew "months ago" what the situation would be like today in Kabul.
I also challenge the ridiculous claim that Johnson, or Biden for that matter, are anymore responsible than anyone else for the appalling failure of the 20 year old war waged by the Western powers.
Yes if things had been handled better the Western withdrawal might have saved more lives, but going into Afghanistan was never about saving lives.
Ironically some people who talk about Nigerian uncles are naive and gullible enough to think it was, because Tony Blair told them.
If you read the Guardian link above you will see that the point is made that the withdrawal just to happen on Biden's and Johnson's watch, but what about the other 200,000 plus dead Afghans? What did they die for? Who are you holding accountable for that?
but despite them having the correct clearances and paperwork the staff weren’t allowed through to the flight.
The Taliban wouldn't let them into the airport. They allowed Farthing and his cats and dogs but not his staff, not even his lorry driver. Are you blaming Johnson and Biden for that?
Yes. The reason the Taliban stopped them was they were entering on an official letter giving them clearance rather than an actual visa. However, after all the "administrative delays" it seems that Biden changed the rules hours before so the Taliban were working on no visa/no passage.
You have to assume that Biden didn't do this to deliberately effect Farthing's staff. I can certainly see the logic in restricting access to the chaotic situation in the airport to people with actual visas. Presumably people without visas were not going to be evacuated.
I can understand Farthing's disappointment that his staff we unable to leave with him, he must be devastated. However there is no reason to assume that they were anymore deserving than any other Afghan civilian. I can't imagine that they will face execution for helping rescuing cats and dogs. A lot of other Afghans will be a lot less lucky.
I am also pleased that Farthing got all of his cats and dogs out, I am sure it means a lot to him.
Yes. The reason the Taliban stopped them was they were entering on an official letter giving them clearance rather than an actual visa. However, after all the “administrative delays” it seems that Biden changed the rules hours before so the Taliban were working on no visa/no passage.
I am somewhat skeptical that Johnny Taleban working the checkpoint on Kabul Airport Ringroad is getting briefings from Joe Biden on what an "actual visa" looks like in the middle of a chaotic revolution.
I'd imagine that if they're working a road block to the airport, two things become apparent pretty quickly.
1. The reason people aren't getting in.
2. What a visa looks like.
Embarrassing that they worked it out quicker on the ground than it could be communicated to those who needed to know through our "special relationship" with the US.
But like everyone else, I wasn't there, so I don't know for certain. This is what I've read or heard from those who were.
If there's one thing apparent from all of this, it's that the Taliban shouldn't be underestimated
To be fair it's Pen Farthing himself who is blaming Joe Biden for changing the paperwork. No idea how true that is but I can understand Farthing's frustration.
True story which sounds too incredible to be believable :
Many years ago when I was doing a short stint in the military I illegally smuggled a cat onboard a military flight into a military base in the UK (RAF Northolt). I was successful but had I been caught the consequences would have been severe.
And all the more so because the military transport plane wasn't British and I wasn't in the British armed forces.
Unlike the flight crew, who had originally offered to take the cat through but at the last moment changed their mind and told me not to bring the cat onboard, I had to go through immigration control.
Just as my passport was being checked the drug which I had sedated the cat with started to wear off and it started to make very weak miaows in my holdall. Unsurprisingly I started to get a coughing fit until I was through.
I will always remember the overwhelming feeling of elation when I finally boarded the tube train and was able to unzip my holdall and hold him, after a long time planning the whole exercise.
Cool story?
The reason I've told it is because I can understand Pen Farthing. I had built a strong bond with a cat which I originally found as a very small feral kitten on a vast military base.
To one day leave him behind to fend for himself, and probably fail, wasn't an option for me. So I took stupid risks and broke UK quarantine laws.
I can understand how much that must be multiplied in the case of almost 200 cats and dogs.
So I am very pleased for Pen Farthing and know how happy he must feel to have finally been successful. But for me personally the success of his mission is fairly unimportant.
The fate of nearly 200 cats and dogs is not a high priority for me against the backdrop of the chaos in Kabul/Afghanistan, and I wouldn't expect it to be for either Biden nor Johnson.
But I don't blame Farthing, it was very important to him.
Cool story?
Very. Though you've now identified yourself as a cat smuggler, as well as a cat snuggler.
Apologies, Ernie. I obviously misread your opinion.
I’d imagine that if they’re working a road block to the airport, two things become apparent pretty quickly.
1. The reason people aren’t getting in.
2. What a visa looks like.
You know that dual citizens haven't been keen to show off their foreign passports to the Taliban, and that visas aren't all stamps/stickers any more. The ideas that some semi-literate 26 year old militiaman at a roadblock is calmly administering a checkpoint to Kabul Airport and checking visas, and that it's Joe Biden's fault that people aren't getting to the airport because he didn't file the right visa paperwork with the Taliban, are bonkers.
Apologies, Ernie. I obviously misread your opinion.
None required, I wasn't being totally frank about how I viewed the situation as I didn't really want to tell my cat smuggling story.
I fully understand Pen Farthing's commitment to his animals and fully support what he has done. I see no reason to believe that his actions has cost the lives of anyone.
On the other hand I also understand that his 200 cats and dogs must be very low priority for the UK government. I can also understand the frustration of those vulnerable people who have been left behind to face possible execution when they hear of 200 cats and dogs being flown out of Kabul to safety.
Is illegally smuggling a cat a feliny or just a misdemeanour?
It just happens in the main to be completely aligned to the same interests as those in government.
Imagine if Labour were in power and supermarket shelves were empty, food was rotting in fields, there was a shortage of tubes for blood tests, we'd had 150,000 COVID deaths, we'd abandoned Afghanistan, and no one had resigned...I can't imagine that today's Mail headline would be quite so...neutral
Imagine if Labour were in power and supermarket shelves were empty, food was rotting in fields, there was a shortage of tubes for blood tests, we’d had 150,000 COVID deaths, we’d abandoned Afghanistan, and no one had resigned…I can’t imagine that today’s Mail headline would be quite so…neutral
I went and had a look via the BBC papers page - what a ****ing embarrassing excuse for journalism.
Other Newspapers are available. They just don't happen to be as popular with the people of Britain.
Are people being led by the Mail or are they choosing the Mail because they like what it says ?
The over-promoted, Brexity crooks and morons now running the UK don't give a shit about anything beyond the next day's headlines and keeping their morbidly stupid followers 'happy'.
Their disdain for the 'New Tory' voter's powers of intellect and attention span is obvious, blatant and entirely deserved.
Imagine if Labour were in power and supermarket shelves were empty, food was rotting in fields, there was a shortage of tubes for blood tests, we’d had 150,000 COVID deaths, we’d abandoned Afghanistan
Sounds like fuel strikes + Iraq + foot and mouth. I'd still rather Blair back than this shower.