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I think most folk can agree that the withdrawal from Afghanistan has been something of a clusterflop.
We've been following the exploits of Pen Farthing and his Nowzad charity with great interest and contributed to help him raise funds for a private plane for his staff, their families and the animals. Boris saw the public support for this and approved visas for all.
You couldn't write the story that followed, it was on, it was off, they were at the airport, they were sent away.
Now, Sky News is reporting "sources" are blaming Pen for causing delays in the whole process. The Spectator has a piece on this claiming Pen was queue jumping and putting pets before people. Missing the fact he'd raised funds for his own plane and only wanted to use 70 seats, offering out the others for whoever was cleared to fly out with the animals in the hold.
For an ex marine who has spent 20 years helping the animals that have helped those serving on the ground to deal with the day to day reality. Some have said this has risked the lives of our forces there with the loading of animals. What they don't mention is that Pen and the staff has mocked up the loading facilities and drilled loading them on themselves in the 90 min allotted standing time. Also, while I can speak for the men and women on the ground, knowing they're doing something to help colleagues that have gone before them, they might well have their own feelings about this. He flew out on the last flight with his animals but couldn't get his staff and their families out. He didn't want to, he was going to stay with them. However, his own staff were the ones to convince him to leave. They pointed out that with him and the animals gone, the staff would be at less of a risk from the Taliban.
It seems that the government are now trying to doing the typical smoke and mirrors thing and make Pen the dead cat for the complete balls up they've made of the evacuation. God forbid this should of got in the way of a politician's holiday.
I'll admit to some bias in this. I possibly see the importance of the human/k9 relationship and I'm no fan of this government but surely this is blatent social and media manipulation.
Even if he did delay his own repatriation as part of his efforts to pressure our shameful government into granting his staff an escape route, I don’t think anyone with a heart would blame him. Leaving them behind must be hell for him.
Somebody claimed that Johnson runs to the front of the crowd and shouts follow me.
Seems it’s true.
Totally agree. Pen's personal mission was to save what was important to him, the people and the animals. I'd say using public opinion and awareness through social media to achieve that is fair game.
When it seemed like the popular choice, Blojo was all for it, a bit of popularity on someone else's coat tails is right up his street.
Now the evacuation looks to be a bit of a failure, they're now trying to blame Pen and his supports saying they wouldn't prioritize pets over people. It's a catchy slogan, but completely missed the fact that no one asked them to.
"A plane for pets is disgusting while people still need rescuing" comes the cry. Completely missing that people don't go in the hold where the animals go and that he'd chartered an extra aircraft so giving capacity to take an extra 150 people above and beyond his staff and their immediate families.
If you’ve not seen this already, ladies and gentlemen…. Our prime minister and foreign secretary in a time of national crisis
And this is for real. Released by the government itself. They actually think this is a positive thing. Sweet Jesus!
Not an outtake from In The Thick Of It. It’s real!
Weep for our country and those left to their terrible fate in Afghanistan
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1431527825375379458?s=21
Jesus wept. He says "are you the guys who have been inundated by emails from all over the world?" in exactly the same tone as you'd ask a 7 year old "are you the clever little girl that got full marks on your spelling test?"
Somebody claimed that Johnson runs to the front of the crowd and shouts follow me.
Only after seeing which direction they're going.
You wouldn’t let those two clowns run a *ing bath and yet there they are. The Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary
Both clearly pissed off as they had to interrupt their luxury holidays
Nice of them to start scapegoating genuine people who’ve been putting their lives on the line though. Classy!
I hope some day these *s get the reckoning they deserve. Against a ****ing wall!
Plenty of those they failed in Afghanistan will be facing that fate, totally undeserved, due to the sociopathic incompetence of that pair of morons
Torres being tories, nae ****ing surprise there then.
Similar mindset to those blaming Biden for a failure that was of Agent Orange’s making, as it was him who signed the deal with the Taliban.
Disgraceful the way Pen’s being vilified, though no real surprise.
The transcript of the question and answer session after Biden has spoken is particularly illuminating.
Biden is repeatedly asked questions which suggest that what has happened will happen and he is in complete denial.
And his total determination to withdraw from Afghanistan is indisputable :
"After 20 years — a trillion dollars spent training and equipping hundreds of thousands of Afghan National Security and Defense Forces, 2,448 Americans killed, 20,722 more wounded, and untold thousands coming home with unseen trauma to their mental health — I will not send another generation of Americans to war in Afghanistan with no reasonable expectation of achieving a different outcome."
“I will destroy you”, Pen Farthing warned defence aide over Afghanistan pet airlift
^^ After reading that my sympathies are still with Farthing.
Compared with being told you and your friends/staff (ok, animals too) are likely to be left behind to die, threatening to "destroy" someone on social media along with a lot of swearing is pretty bloody tame in comparison?
This is the very smoke screen I'm talking about.
At no point has the message been "take my animals instead", it has always been to take the animals as well.
Other countries have managed to evacuate everyone they needed to, mostly by starting sooner. The UK government ****ed up and is looking to scapegoat an ex marine who is passionate about what he's dedicated his life to, helping the people and animals of Afghanistan.
He raised funds to pay for his own plane. Boris promised him visas for all his staff. They drilled the loading operation of all the animals to make sure they were as self sufficient as possible. He couldn't have done more to prepare. His plane would have 150 spare seats for others to use. He just needed an ISAF call sign.
If I'd been in his shoes, been so close to getting it done that you could taste it, then have the rug pulled from under you, I might very well get a bit sweary. Being told you're being abandoned in a war zone might well do that to most people.
His wife was flown out on a virtually empty plane. The time they did get into the airport but we're then sent away again, they saw cars being loaded rather than people.
By the Tory smoke and mirrors machine has latched onto "not taking pets over people" as their war cry.
I do hope that when he gets back to the UK, he does everything he can to hold those responsible accountable for their action as many others do as well.
I've not seen the headlines this morning but I think the number of headlines or stories trying to rubbish this man will be a good indicator of just how much of the media is in the Tory pocket and how much we've all be taken in by the illusion of a free press.
Other countries have managed to evacuate everyone they needed to, mostly by starting sooner. The UK government **** up and is looking to scapegoat an ex marine who is passionate about what he’s dedicated his life to, helping the people and animals of Afghanistan.
When did Trump sign the orders that started the whole ball rolling?,it was never a great surprise,they should have started the evacuation way back.
I can’t believe that the intelligence analysts weren’t foaming at the mouth on this one.
how much we’ve all be taken in by the illusion of a free press
The press is entirety free. It just happens in the main to be completely aligned to the same interests as those in government. It is not controlled by any government. It is owned by people who helped install this government.
Looks like a bit of infighting going on as well - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58372596
The government have been utterly shambolic on this, they were told to get Afghan interpreters and others who'd assisted them out of the country some months ago but chose not to do anything.
The press is entirety free. It just happens in the main to be completely aligned to the same interests as those in government. It is not controlled by any government. It is owned by people who helped install this government.
So the people who control the government, also control the press.
Sounds about right.
Well, in the case of the PM, one paper funded him and campaigned for him. You can argue what control they have over him as a result, maybe no direct control, but I’d argue there is a symbiotic relationship there. No control in either direction, just mutual aims and willingness to assist.
So the people who control the government, also control the press.
Sounds about right.
This is news to you?
No, not news. Just saddened that the whole thing is so unscrupulous that it needs to try and rubbish one man's efforts to do the right thing to try to hide its own shame.
Probably even more saddened that it appears to work.
What’s most appalling is that lots of Tory MPs opted to put Johnson in power despite knowing his character, or lack of it. And that of the gang of useless ****-wits he surrounded himself with, Raab being the pinnacle of bone-headed stupidity
And even after this utter debacle, which is surely going to lead to a bloodbath over the coming weeks, they still support him as it suits their own narrow selfish interests.
What has to happen before any of them actually grow queasy enough of this utter shambolic incompetence to grow a pair and do something about it?
They are all now complicit in the deaths of all those left behind. They were warned about this months ago and sat back and did absolutely nothing.
Exactly like they did last February with Covid. How many pointless deaths will their self-serving complacency end up causing!
I'll be honest, I hadn't seen or heard thus attemptbto deflect blame until I saw it on this thread. The attempt may not have been as successful as we think.
Anyway, the Mail on Sunday has chosen to lead by going with Charles, just to make their readership's tiny minds implode
Similar mindset to those blaming Biden for a failure that was of Agent Orange’s making
I do blame Biden for creating the present situation, I'm no trump fan, but this particular mess wasn't actually his doing. I can't see how scapegoating Pen is in any way comparable, but carry on.
As for the UK'S response it's been an utter embarrassment, we're clearly not in the loop diplomatically the "special relationship" doesn't seem to have given our own clown in chief any sort of heads up, and the slow, clumsy efforts to help people in a litteral life or death situation tells you everything you need to know. Time was short and we as a nation have the resources, yet we have failed mainly it seems through a lack of leadership.
The sad thing is it won't cost them many votes, it happened somewhere else well outside of our boarders and most of the people involved were brown.
but this particular mess wasn’t actually his doing
Trump rightly or wrongly committed the US to leaving by May of this year and got a ceasefire from the Taliban on that basis.
They are all now complicit in the deaths of all those left behind. They were warned about this months ago and sat back and did absolutely nothing.
Months ago? If you looked at the link which I posted above you would see that only last month Joe Biden was strongly denying the likelihood of Kabul falling to the Taliban.
Since you obviously aren't going to bother looking at the link because it doesn't suit your narrative here's a bit of the transcript which you can see without clicking :
Q Mr. President, thank you very much. Your own intelligence community has assessed that the Afghan government will likely collapse.
THE PRESIDENT: That is not true.
Q Is it — can you please clarify what they have told you about whether that will happen or not?
THE PRESIDENT: That is not true. They did not — they didn’t — did not reach that conclusion.
Afghanistan has been a foreign policy disaster and military failure for 20 years. The Taliban are now significantly stronger than they were 20 years ago. Responsibility lies with the consecutive US and UK governments of the last 20 years.
And yet criticism appears to be reserved solely for Johnson who has been UK PM for the last couple of years and is in no way in any position to challenge or stop the United States from abandoning Afghanistan.
I am happy to criticise the current Tory government but surely the successful evacuation, with help from the British military, of almost 200 cats and dogs from Kabul isn't the most obvious reason to get angry?
And if all this was so predictable months ago, as you suggest binners, why weren't the cats and dogs evacuated from Kabul months ago, or at least weeks ago?
You’re actually quoting White House press briefings as honest and impartial ‘news’ are you?
Righty ho.
And if all this was so predictable months ago, as you suggest binners, why weren’t the cats and dogs evacuated from Kabul months ago, or at least weeks ago?
I’m more bothered about the people really, but they weren’t evacuated because our government, such as it is, is peopled by lazy, ****less, incompetent sociopaths who genuinely couldn’t give a shit
And yet criticism appears to be reserved solely for Johnson
No, that is simply not true.
Bush, Blair, Obama, Biden and others have been slammed by many in the Afghanistan threads on this forum in recent weeks, as well as in the past. This thread is about the actions of this government and the supportive press. But here you are, again, jumping in to defend Johnson by deflection. You’d be a great columnist for any of the right leaning rags.
I am happy to criticise the current Tory government but surely the successful evacuation, with help from the British military, of almost 200 cats and dogs from Kabul isn’t the most obvious reason to get angry?
See, the smoke and mirrors is working. The reason for the post isn't about the right or wrong of evacuating rescue animals, it's that the man driving it is being vilified as a distraction from the mess that's been made.
Johnson might not be responsible for 20 years of failed foreign policy but the withdrawal and planning of the evacuation are on his watch, if not his conscience.
it’s that the man driving it is being vilified as a distraction from the mess that’s been made.
The man driving it is a passenger in this whole sorry debacle. The yanks hardly coordinated any of this and it was a surprise to our government as much as us all. And if distraction tactics is his plan trying to bury it behind a story of a chap trying to save a few mangy mutts in thew face of impending human slaughter of thousands of people, then it is't really working is it? A very weak proposition. Think you're reading too much into this and coming up with silly conspiracy theories.
Someone best let Ben Wallace know, it seems to be all he's talking about.
Is conspiracy theory the same as fake news, alternative facts or project fear?
You’re actually quoting White House press briefings as honest and impartial ‘news’ are you?
Righty ho.
Yes I am quoting the exact words spoken by Joe Biden. Do you think Joe Biden was deliberately misrepresenting himself?
Or are you some kind of conspiracy nut who doesn't believe anything they read unless it's in the Guardian newspaper?
I know how much like the Bible the Guardian is to you.
I’d never take the words of ANY politician at face value.
And if you do then can I point you in the direction of my Nigerian uncle. He merely needs some help in releasing some funds from his country. For use of your bank account you will be handsomely remunerated
And if you do then can I point you in the direction of my Nigerian uncle
They've already updated that one, I had an email about having to get money out of Kabul in a hurry and they needed my help 😉
Obviously I replied saying love to help, but only if it involves cats.
<blockquoSomeone best let Ben Wallace know, it seems to be all he’s talking about.
Where? Not seen a press report of him/this for days now.
As a distraction, it's very selective who it's distracting
I’m more bothered about the people really, but they weren’t evacuated because our government, such as it is, is peopled by lazy, ****less, incompetent sociopaths who genuinely couldn’t give a shit.
Seems to be their modus operandi for Brexit,Covid now this cracker.
The Schneider tweets mental,dumb and dumber making it up on the hoof.
We really do desire better than this……
By jings, looks like smoke and mirrors:
Looks like Govey is back on the nosebag
and I thought he was keeping his head down with a firm friend
Obviously the allure of some Coke-fuelled cruising was too much to resist.
I expect it was to take his mind off worrying about the fate of all those interpreters left behind in Afghanistan
I’d never take the words of ANY politician at face value.
And if you do then can I point you in the direction of my Nigerian uncle. He merely needs some help in releasing some funds from his country. For use of your bank account you will be handsomely remunerated
Oh you are so so clever binners, no one can pull the wool over your eyes.
You reckon Joe Biden was deliberately lying at that press conference, according to you everyone knew months ago, including Biden himself, that Kabul would quickly fall to the Taliban, even before the Americans had left.
Since you don't ever believe any politician what do you base that claim on, something you read in the Guardian, or something your Nigerian uncle told you?
Please share your sauce.
And btw if according to you all politicians are exactly the same and can't be trusted why do you seem to have such a problem with Boris Johnson?
What has your Nigerian uncle told you about Starmer that makes to think he would be any different?
Admit it binners, politics for you is an exercise in pick 'n' mix. You accept the bits which seem to fit in nicely with your personal agenda and simply reject any awkward facts which don't.
You share in fact all the same characteristics as those politicians which you claim to despise so much.
You reckon Joe Biden was deliberately lying at that press conference,
Politician in not being entirely honest shocka!!!
What was he going to say in answer to the question?
“Actually, we know Kabul is about to be overrun by the Taliban any day now, but **** it, I’ve said we’re pulling out so that’s what we’re doing. And if loads of people get left behind to be murdered, we’ll that’s just too bad”
That would have been the honest answer, but I doubt it would have gone down well.
You carry on believing in the honesty and integrity of politicians if you like.
I’ll carry on taking everything they say with my usual bucket of salt and judging them by what they do, not what they say
Okay binners so we have established that Joe Biden was lying through his teeth and that, according to you, everyone knew months ago that Kabul would fall to the Taliban even before the Americans had left.
Now will you answer my original question, ie, if it so ****ing obvious why didn't Pen Farthing evacuate his cats and dogs months ago?
Didn't he know months ago, like you did, that Kabul would fall to the Taliban? Why didn't he know?
And how come you knew? Who told you? How come you were better informed than people living in Kabul?
I'm assuming that you haven't been enjoying a pint and reading the Guardian in a pub in Kabul.
What was your sauce?