But what I really expect is that it will be a complete non event where people don't even notice that the "totty" is missing as it were. Hence proving it to be an outdated idea that should have died off years ago like picking your PA based on look not skills etc.
So where is this "totty" going to earn the same level of money that they do when they do the podiums?
The ones I have met are not the brightest and their "skills" are probably limited.
And where do we stop? Attractive sells and educated women choose to become models, actors, pop stars, etc. If my daughter decides that she can make a good living from her looks, then good luck to her. If that means ignoring a rather expensive education and she's come to a rational decision, then all the better.
A group of males deciding what is best for women? How about we let them decide?
Missing the point? It's not about depriving somebody of a job it's about why they are there. In this case the main event organiser couldn't find a good enough reason to employ models to hang around and hand out prizes like the majority of other sports. If you feel the need to pay somebody then put out a fair selection criteria that has equal opportunities. The job description is basically hold random prize object then hand to sports person waiting for photo leave. I'm sure they would be inundated with applications for the.
Missing the point? It's not about depriving somebody of a job it's about why they are there. In this case the main event organiser couldn't find a good enough reason to employ models to hang around and hand out prizes like the majority of other sports. If you feel the need to pay somebody then put out a fair selection criteria that has equal opportunities. The job description is basically hold random prize object then hand to sports person waiting for photo leave. I'm sure they would be inundated with applications for the.
Sorry, I thought this was about podium ornaments and equality, the sort of equality that lets the women decide.
Sex sells, right up from the street corners of Leeds to the biggest Hollywood blockbusters. And it's quite natural as well, I believe. Years of Attenborough documentaries have shown me how animals make themselves more beautiful in order to get a mate.
I'm all for talent being the decider, sometimes that talent is looks.
But what is it selling?
Sorry, I thought this was about podium ornaments and equality, the sort of equality that lets the women decide.
What are podium ornaments for?
(and as SA government will be an equal opportunities employer how could they specify women?)
The equality you speak of would probably be there if women were making the decisions, but they are not. The decision about who gets the job or who stands on the podium isn't being made by women.
So now we try the if they didn't want to they wouldn't take the job argument which is basically saying people will turn down work.
The real point is that the people running this spend a heap of cash trying to help people with body image problems and other conditions that are basically related to a very specific type of image being shown to young women (and men) as what is desirable. It's causing harm to people so they decided not to continue.
I'm all for talent being the decider, sometimes that talent is looks.
If you told me that the kid presenting the winner was the National Under 19's road race champion I reckon that would impress me and the riders more.
They say sex sells but here, what is sex selling? Who is turning up or tuning in or looking up the results just to look at a pretty girl? I'm not going to argue that it's suddenly justifiable if it improves the appeal of cross racing by 20% or whatever... But it doesn't, does it? It's just a load of pointless old cock.
That Breitling advert back on p1 just had me going, wtf was that? How does that sell a £5000 watch? Sexist or not, objectifying or not, it's also offensive as incredibly shit advertising.
I can see that in some situations it does work- like, frinstance, "booth babes"- people will take, post and print pics of a product with a pretty girl on top, who wouldn't necessarily bother if it didn't. That's pretty crap but at least it's serving a purpose.
And ffs, it's 2016, every manner of nudity and sexuality you can imagine, and lots you can't, is a click away. So who is still going phwoaarrr at brolly girls? Monks and 80 year old race organisers, I suspect.
[quote=captainsasquatch ]Sex sells, right up from the street corners of Leeds
Ah, I was wondering what it was you had in mind for your daughter.
This is about kids getting to give prizes to cyclists vs pretty women right?
Which will advance the sport more? Kids being excited, inspired and involved? Or middle aged blokes eyeing up the talent whilst women feel vaguely uncomfortable?
Which will advance the sport more? Kids being excited, inspired and involved? Or middle aged blokes eyeing up the talent whilst women feel vaguely uncomfortable?
None of the defenders of the status quo have answered that point.
This is about kids getting to give prizes to cyclists vs pretty women right?
Or is it about winners of races getting to look good by association with attractive women. Much as James Bond gets to look good in the same way.
Clover, spot on.
In sports where money is tight you don't see podium girls and young participants are used. It's great for up and coming kids, they go back to their clubs and spread the word.
I wonder at what level of money rolling in do the organisers think that it's time to buy in eye candy? Seems an odd decision nowadays and most likely stuck back with traditionalists, it's time they were gone.
Much as James Bond gets to look good in the same way.
well he needs all the help he can get as
Poor Bond the great victim of discriminationTry being white, male, married, no kids, straight, working, healthy, middle aged and educated. The most discriminated bunch out there
Its hard to tell what is homour on this thread and what is stupidity
Or is it about winners of races getting to look good by association with attractive women. Much as James Bond gets to look good in the same way.
'Cos of course, they didn't look good enough by merely winning? They need pretty women otherwise they look like losers?
'Cos of course, they didn't look good enough by merely winning? They need pretty women otherwise they look like losers?
Good point. Let's suggest to F1 drivers that they spray each other with Irn Bru, not champagne, as they look good enough already.
Poor Bond the great victim of discrimination
Its hard to tell what is homour on this thread and what is stupidity
However, a straw man is always easy to spot.
Nope not helping as still not sure if humour or stupidity oh and WHOOOSH
DrJ - MemberHowever, a straw man is always easy to spot.
What, like suddenly talking about James Bond? Because I tell you, that guy doesn't need arm candy to look good, all he needs is swimming trunks.
I've said too much.
Ah, I was wondering what it was you had in mind for your daughter.
Not cool or funny. 👿
but you just said you dud not have a problem with it
could one say you are cool with it as long as she is not ugly?I'm all for talent being the decider, sometimes that talent is looks.
Its not our fault you dont like your argument applied to your daughter and the point is to get you to generalise this feeling to all women not just her.
NB No offence meant and I agree that bringing up peoples children is clearly not acceptable/fair/reasonable and this is not my intention i meant it merely to highlight the point and could see no other way to do it- a thought experiment if you will. No offence meant
So in summary
Some men will see a podium girl and wont letch or perve over her
Some men will see a podium girl and will letch or perve over her
Some podium girls love the work
Some podium girls hate the work
Some women aren't bothered by podium girls
Some women are bothered by podium girls
Some kids wont notice the podium girls
Some kids will notice the podium girls
[quote=Junkyard ]NB No offence meant and I agree that bringing up peoples children is clearly not acceptable/fair/reasonable and this is not my intention i meant it merely to highlight the point and could see no other way to do it- a thought experiment if you will. No offence meant
Which is exactly why I brought it up - to be fair he did bring his daughter into the discussion and I was just quoting his words (I did consider making a similar point when he first mentioned not having a problem with his daughter exploiting her looks as I was wondering if he did have a line - but decided it was maybe a bit far until captain equated podium girls with the ones on street corners in Leeds). Again no offence meant, but it is something you need to consider if you think you really don't have a problem with the whole business, and you do consider it's all part of the same thing.
Ah, I was wondering what it was you had in mind for your daughter.
Nope. Nor is shovelling shit. But neither are morally wrong - just undesirable career choices.
But standing on a podium smiling is a desirable career choice? In which case where exactly do you draw the line between desirable and undesirable?
In which case where exactly do you draw the line between desirable and undesirable?
Somewhere between wearing a nice dress and getting an air kiss from a slighty sweaty cyclist in Paris, and giving some fat businessman a blow job in the back of a car in Leeds.
^ so... A bit of a fingering in Maidstone, then.
That's not terrible exact, DrJ. Which side of the line would having your bum pinched by a slightly sweaty cyclist be?
That's not terrible exact, DrJ. Which side of the line would having your bum pinched by a slightly sweaty cyclist be?
If it was me it would depend on the cyclist. Wiggins, get to ****, Sagan sploosh!
This is quite yawn. There are a few members on here who have red hot pokers up their colons when it comes to sexism and they jump in aggressively with their righteousness and belittlement every time, without fail.
However, equality, to me, is letting people do what they want, and considering them people, not girls/boys. Don't try extra extra hard to make women ride mountain bikes. Don't try extra extra hard to make the prize givers represent every niche of society. Whatever. They're not prancing around in thongs. They probably have connections and other interest in the event/sport and rather enjoy the role. There's no big deal made about them on the reply or media, I've not seen any news photos with captions suggesting how attractive they are.
Why not actively hire women as boxing referees? Or team bike mechanics? Women exist in these roles but very rarely. Nobody is discriminating against them.
What IS wholly sexist in our sport is the promotion of women only events and clubs.
I await the angry keyboard tirades of the poker derriere brigade.
Whatever man.
[quote=glasgowdan ]I await the angry keyboard tirades of the poker derriere brigade.
Get your ad-hom in early
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Ever think these people must be gutted not to have a bit of totty on their podium
Why not actively hire women as boxing referees? Or team bike mechanics? Women exist in these roles but very rarely. Nobody is discriminating against them.What IS wholly sexist in our sport is the promotion of women only events and clubs.
I await the angry keyboard tirades of the poker derriere brigade.
No it really isn't, there are events every week that cater nearly exclusivly to men, I remember some winners in the womens getting XL blokes T-Shirts as prizes as if it was an afterthought.
The barriers to entry for men is much lower in most sports, if your setting off a womens cat in a mixed road race they will generally go in front of the men so end up being swept through at some point - bit intermdating while trying to get started, seen plenty of blokes getting annoyed about women on DH tracks. Cycling is still a male dominated sport, adressing that by providing pathways into the sport for women is not sexist it's a good idea. If you bother to take a look you will probably find a load of events where you won't even see a woman there due to the imbalance.
well, that is a very simplistic understanding, but it does at least explain how you arrive at the views you expressHowever, equality, to me, is letting people do what they want, and considering them people, not girls/boys.
What IS wholly sexist in our sport is the promotion of women only events and clubs
My wife and several others got into climbing via a Glasgow Council funded programme called Women in Sport which ran women only instruction sessions at the climbing wall. Lots of them said they wouldn't have gone on their own due to the (probably mostly unintentional) male dominated atmosphere. It permanently changed the whole complexion of the place. When the funding stopped the women kept coming to the wall and when other women looked in they saw a more gender balanced environment and were less intimidated.
The Women in Sport programme came about as a result of studies done on why women are less represented in many sports, in the surveys many responded that they would like to try some sports but felt intimidated for a variety of reasons. This is not 'trying extra hard' to make women participate, it's just breaking down the barriers to their participation.
From a very narrow perspective women only clubs etc might look sexist but they are a stepping stone to equality of participation.
male dominated atmosphere
Is this actually true for climbing walls? Never noticed it being excessively male oriented in Sheffield (noughties), my climbing partner was female, as was the instructor when I first started, and a fair few of the staff and many of the clientele.
No idea what the balance actually was as a percentage. Genuinely curious so this is more a question and not a statement.
Is this actually true for climbing walls? Never noticed it being excessively male oriented in Sheffield (noughties), my climbing partner was female, as was the instructor when I first started, and a fair few of the staff and many of the clientele.
It will depend entirely on the place I'd imagine. I know women who would like, for example, to join the gym closest to the office but the daytime crowd is 90% male and they feel a little intimidated by the atmosphere. The evening sessions are closer to 50-50 but they want to use the gym at lunchtime.
TBH, male domination may not be the reality of the situation but if it makes women uncomfortable then it's not unreasonable to take steps.
From a very narrow perspective women only clubs etc might look sexist but they are a stepping stone to equality of participation.
Good idea and golf had it for many years but then considered bad form and abandoned. Odd when you think about it.
But intimidation is easy to understand, I was in a minority of 4 guys at a charity bridge day with the rest all women recently. Terrifying and obvious that we were unwelcome by the overt hostility especially in bidding. And as for body pump classes.....well....
...has anyone said yet that having podium girls just seems a bit naff, and makes cycling look a little from an earlier time?
It's not a huge big deal, just one of those pro cycling traditions like zipping up to show the sponsors' logos, that say this is professional sport and entertaining the punters is part of it. But traditions change and this now looks just mildly embarrassing as I say. (And fwiw I know someone who did it at one major race as just a fun thing to do, but that's really not the issue. The issue is what it ways about the sport.)
Presumably no one actually earns there main income as a podium girl?
charity bridge day
Good grief....I thought you had to be at least 70 before you even started learning it! 😉
Anyway back on F1, do you think the driver in the Renault is contemplating a fast start....or something else?
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Thats what my kids reckon, but I love the game!
[quote=piemonster ]Is this actually true for climbing walls? Never noticed it being excessively male oriented in Sheffield (noughties), my climbing partner was female, as was the instructor when I first started, and a fair few of the staff and many of the clientele.
It's certainly less male dominated than many sports, but it's still nowhere near equal. "Ladies night" at the climbing wall I use tonight - I checked and us chaps are still allowed as well (it's my normal climbing night) but their reply included the following "Women tend to participate in all sport and physical activity less frequently than men with 31% of women taking part compared to 40.8% men. The same is true for climbing, hill walking and mountaineering"
